SUNAAD RAGHURAM forwards a February 19 story from the Times of India titled ‘A myth called the Indian programmer‘ by T. Surendar coinciding with the annual fair of Nasscom meet in Bombay recently.
The article makes the extraordinary, almost unbelievable, claim that out of the 574 IITians who graduated last year, just ten—yes, 10—joined India’s top-three IT firms. Software giants like Infosys and TCS dangle giant salaries but find it difficult to woo IITians who gravitate towards firms like Google and Trilogy.
Reason: The Indian software industry is largely process driven, not product driven.
In fact, at the Nasscom event, which brought together software professionals from around the world, not one of the 29 sessions dealt with programmers, the posterboys of the success of software firms, especially in a city like Bangalore.
As Surendar quotes a senior executive from a global consultancy firm: “It is an explosive truth that local software companies won’t accept. Most IT professionals in India are not programmers, they are mere coders.”
# Coders are like smart assembly line workers; programmers are plant engineers.
# Programmers are the brains, the glorious visionaries who create things. Coders just follow what they are told.
# Programming requires a post-graduate level of knowledge of complex algorithms and programming methods, coding requires only high school knowledge of the subject.
# Coding is also the grime job. It is repetitive and monotonous.
One candidate is quoted as saying: “The entrance test to join TCS is a joke compared to the one in Trilogy. That speaks of what the Indian firms are looking for.”
Coders feel stuck in their jobs, says the ToI article. “They have fallen into the trap of the software hype and now realise that though their status is glorified in society, intellectually they are stranded.”
True or false?
Maybe True Maybe false as well .
If you are a Consultant say in business applications like an ERP for example .You are not coding but more business driven and over years .You become an expert in domain and know exactly how a consumer goods company,Pharma or an oil indisutry works .
Whereas if you work on code fixing and monotonous work like a Giant legacy system then ‘YES’ its is Coding and Boring
what is the point of this post? are you interested in comparison of two disparate bussiness models and their impact on employment in India or are you just interested in assigning prestige point labels to honest, wage earning and tax paying jobs people hold?
disclaimer: i am not in the IT bussiness.
IITians namma deshakke madiro sevey astralley idhey! Sadhya awarugalu IT goo bandhu adhanna kedislilla antha thumba santhoshada vishaya. Naavu coders astey programmers agokkey namma hathra astu buddhi illa. Yaakendrey, naavu create madidha ‘apps package’ yaaru thogotharey heli?
Murthy, Sathya, haagu Premanna ivara angadi geethe athwa haadu…
“Naaavellaro ondhe
Jaathi ondhey
Kula ondhey
Naav Coderu”
Agree with Tarlesubba..entirely different concepts..there is no point comparing..!
Good article. It belabors the point that the hype of the India software industry is misplaced. The real money-spinners are the product firms – those that thrive on innovation and try to fundamentally alter the business landscape. None of the Indian companies seek to do it in India.
That is the biggest failure of our educational system (right from school level). It never encourages visionary thinking, creativity and a questioning/curious attitude. If anything, it strives for conformity and memorization. Our educational system is good for churning out clerks. Entrepreneurial skills by Indians are almost always self-developed.
Reacting to Quizman: Product firms become money spinners only if the products are world-class and are able to cater to the requirements of the customers. Moreover, Indian companies have always lacked the marketing chutzpah required to compete in a global marketplace. The Indian software industry has taken the relatively easy route of services, because unlike in the product space returns are immediate and there are no long gestation periods.
The present Global Delivery Model – which every Tier 1, IT company flaunts as its strength is primarily based on wage arbitrage, quality processes and manpower. But the challenge is to create a new curve of innovative growth. It does seem that at the moment companies are betting their future on scale. Revenues of these companies are directly linked to headcount. If you notice, there are very little differentiating factors among the top 10-20 IT companies.
There is a realization that these companies will have to go down the path of innovation sooner than later. For all the criticism, the government is set to act: In the annual budget ‘morrow, the government is expected to announce a public fund to innovative ideas, of which 30 percent will be for licensing or patent fees, 30 percent will go to funding the project, and the rest, 40 percent, will be given to the institute where the research takes place. Early stage funding is crucial for innovation.
There is a definite case to be made that processes are themselves products. The innovation involved is in identifying the outsourcing opportunity and running with it -setting up a profitable business predicated on this idea and then scaling it to be large enough to have significant impact on national psyche. Not to mention create a global impression deep enough that these madivantha innovator attracting, multi billion $$, MNC ‘product’ companies find it worthwhile to ship PARTS of product development to India.
If it is a mere case of the drones as you suggest, every shyam, ram and hari who hired ‘drones’ to start a company would have raked in the moolah – not to mention prime real estate that state after state doled out. The fact is that all those who read this as the march of the drones game FAILED.
Also, keep in mind these are not job profiles created as a result of outsourcing. These are actual job profiles that were held by the middle class in the USA, arguably the most innovator friendly society. The societal impact on the middle class of these types of jobs cannot be overstated. Your and Sunaad’s disgust for gumaasthagiri, is against the grain of arguably the most innovative idea to come out of KA if not India – kaayakave kailaasa. I ask you what is wrong with coding/call center/BPO jobs? And what would you really have young people graduating out of colleges in India actually do, PRACTICALLY?
As I see it, if it were not for coding or it would have been Dandakaaranya for these kids.
1. Less IIT’ians in a project , better the chances that it will be completed
2. Less IIM guys on a project , better chances of the project taking off from the ground
3. All cant be Gates/Jobs ( pls tell me how many ‘visionaries’ has been produced world over?
4. Work require drudgery ( worker bees)
5. Can you imagine the plight of a person who doesnt belong to the elite class/caste ( General merit ,…) if applying for a govt job was the only option?
Sometime back I asked Azim Premji whether he would be interested in putting money into developing software products. He replied immediately that his company will not move away from its core strength which is software services. I asked him again isn’t it true that software services is the first step before IT companies graduate to making software products to which he repeated his previous answer. What does one make out of it. Companies like Wipro are happy doing what they know best and won’t even try to be a Microsoft. Best of luck for them. Because it is only luck which will keep such companies afloat.
tarle subba sir,
i am not competent to speak on these issues,but you make a lot of sense
TS Avarey
Neevu helodhrallu sathya yidhey. Eega navu swalpa ‘Value Chain’ alli melay hogbeku astey. Namma huduga hudigirgu barey kelsa magtheevey antha confidence barbeku. Adhakoskara, swalpa ‘coders’ prapancha dindha aache bandhu IT annu namma deshada samasye galigey upyogisi avakke parihara hudukabeku.
BMShree helidhagge, “Belayeno bekadhastidhey, adhery kuyyoru kadimey.” antha naavu ee Murthy haakida ‘codina’ aladhmarakkey neth hakkondu irokke agalla alway?
Vishwasa Irali
swami, AFAIK, Premji, NilekaNi avarella, product developmente ondu process anno abhipraya uLLOru. kodak, GE, airbus industrie inthaha bahuteka product companigaLige product development support koDokke shuru maaDidhaare. yeshTandrunu product devlopment alli mookhyaaMsha marketing, and marketing is best left to regional players- pubbali koothu football metaphors alli business maathaaDoru beku. eraDu rupaayee banDavaaLa illde irO nanage idhella sahaja antha kaaNisthiruvaaga, koTThyanthara rupayee hooDirO ivarige idu kaaNadhu antha nambutheera?
nammalli IT penetration barO tanaka, murthygaLu neTTa aaladamaraane gati.
KA govt’ land/tax benefits koDodara badalu, egovernence alli Infosys, Wipro anthahavara expertise tagobahudittu. Integrated land management systems, project management systems, ID systems, process analysis ittyadi, maDsko bahudittu. idanella hitec solutions antha kaaNore hecchu, efficiency multiplier automation systems antha kaaNoru kammi.
krishnaswamy made the marketing point with much more eloquence.
@Tarle: I agree with what you say. “ಕಾಯಕವೇ ಕೈಲಾಸ” or “Dignity of Labour” has unfortunately remained just a concept and not practiced much in our country.
Recently ToI’s sister publication ET carried a full page coverage of salary packages in disgusting details offered to IIM and IIT graduates. We see such things in media because of the caste/class consciousness and elitism in our society. ToI and similar outlets are perpetuating these things. Well regarded universities around the world don’t engage in such crass display.
For a more honest and technical discussion of the differences between Programmers and Developers, read the article titled “Developers are from Mars, Programmers are from Venus” – http://www.hacknot.info/hacknot/action/showEntry?eid=90. Notice the difference in the tone of this article. It’s all about how well you solve a given problem which is what engineers are supposed to do. It has nothing to do with what college you went to or how many advanced degrees you have.
TS awarey,
Bahala chennagi yella vishayagalannu viwarisidhheera! Thumbha thanks saar!
Neevu isthondhu koolankushawagi ee vicharana yochaney maadi baridhidheera. CK heliddh haagey kadhu nodona budget nalli bandhrey swalpa ee code kulumey indha namma hudugru aaachey bartharey!
Vishwasa Irli
Every one is beating around the bush without spelling out the obvious-the Indian so called software engineering company are nothing but software code factories- sweat houses, which deal with processes because they cost more to execute in the West. Software products require innovation, and Indian companies should be prepared to take risks to develop them, and accept failures even if marketing works out good- as it is dogfight out in the real world. This Indian companies will not do while easy money is flowing into their coffers by running the software code factories, and the CEOs get sit literally on mountains of rupees.
Indian track record for innovation is not good in the last 50 years. India has not developed fighter aircraft of its own, despite the presence of NALand HAL and aeronautical engg research centres in IITs and IISC . Starting from Nehru’s wooing of Kurt Tank in 1950s to buying MIG and Mirage fighters and now cap in hand begging for F18s,the record is dismal. Applied research work has never been India’s forte.
Look how China has acquired expertise in magnetically levitation and has connected the Shangai airport to the city with a fast train using this technology. They have developed enough expertise to shoot a satellite with a rocket. They are into renewable energy research. They are developing a strong science education base unlike India which has taken the route to put all education eggs in one IT basket. When this IT outsourcing bubble bursts( when other countries out bid India cost-wide), th predicament will be unthinkable.
Don’t get me wrong. I have been an IT practitioner, educator,researcher, company director etc.. for the past 25 years. I fear for the worse, if Indian companies keep on
concentrating on the processes-the outsourced processes.
Resident Alien,
Thank you for posting the excellent http://www.hacknot.info.
…”Notice the difference in the tone of this article. It’s all about how well you solve a given problem which is what engineers are supposed to do. It has nothing to do with what college you went to or how many advanced degrees you have…” Unfortunately, this kind of ‘eclectic skills’ are not needed in our desi code factories!
uttama,
you know that the shanghai maglev is german by technology right? you also know that germans are now twitching their thumbs ‘coz china has decided to flout all decent copyright norms right? now you can cite your fav Hindu article on copyrights, eclectics and social spaces, but the fact is that maadha from kantemaarana koppalu will tell you that is two bit thuggery.
if your comments on NAL and HAL are based on what Outlook had to say, then I have nothing more to say. But I hope you have heard of the Tejas and also of the missile to missile Agni tests. Your fav China has nothing in comparison that even pales. Atleast not something that was not stolen nor done under tech sanctions. Their much touted blasts of satellites that travel in well defined paths in well known low orbits is something that a well funded graduate program would do in a semester or if the course load is too much, in two. In short China aint the poster boy for innovation you were looking for.
btw, The Germans designed and built it. The contract for maintenance was with the Chinese and it is here that they played their now so familiar copyright game. Ofcourse, the chinese conceptualized the scheme, which now is widely considered, insufficient and unprudent ‘coz even the mighty chinese are burning yens in keep this piece of prestige rolling. Mao forbid the news should spread that the shanghai maglev has been shutdown due to financial unviability.
There are cultural and educational reasons for our weakness in basic and applied sciences. Our culture does not encourage critical and independent thinking. Our education policy since independence has employed top-down methods. We never built a solid foundation by providing decent primary education to large sections of the society. We built a few ‘elite’ institutes that account for less than 1% of college graduates, yet we obsess and hype about this small number of graduates. No wonder we have the highest number of illiterates in the world.
Despite all the barriers, expect some authentic innovations to happen when the IT sector turns inward. Don’t expect product innovations when we are in the outward mode. In a large market like US, most of the innovations were designed for the domestic market first. Even in Japan which is on the leading edge of mobile comm, gaming, etc., new things are tried in-house before they are exported. On the other hand, Japan’s export oriented auto sector relies more on quality, reliability and efficiency of it’s products than on ‘innovations’.
Even if the outsourcing bubble bursts, our domestic IT market is growing at a healthy 20%+ a year. With the exception of agriculture, basic materials, auto, pharma, telecoms, energy etc. are growing at a rate that can eclipse IT sector’s growth in a few years. All these trends point to a diversification of the economy.
When it comes to reforms in primary education, don’t look beyond our own state. Changes made during B.K. Chandrashekhar’s term are noteworthy. Trimester system, emphasis on creativity, project work, grades instead of marks, extra curricular activities, deemphasizing rote learning may seem like very lofty goals. But, we can truly become a better educated state in the long run if we can overcome the efforts to undermine these reforms by the vested interests.
Not correct. Because Germans do not have that experience of building that kind of trains. I travel to Germany frequently. It is traditional for India and Indians to put cold water on whatever Chine do. While China is feared, have permanent seat in the UN, India goes begging for it.
i thought the question was asked thus in another blog: “if iitians are so hot, how come all of them could not get into it”? :-) [paraphrasing mine, and not necessarily accurate, since india inc. might or might not equate to it]
– s.b.
Thyssen-Krupp AG, I believe, is the company that built and commisioned the Shanghai Transrapid line in Jan 2004, less than 11 months later China was found denying plagiarism charges. http://www.thyssenkrupp.com/en/asien/china/index.html
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-12/11/content_399463.htm
Ganesha subramanya kathe keLideera? Idi loka ne mooru sathi sutti bandroo subramanya sota. Jogi jote basava noo naak ooru suttatte haagantha jogeegiro viveka basavangoo ide antha heLakk aaguttha?
Uttama
There is a lot of confusion as to what China can really do! But I must agree Tarlesubba is on the money with his logic. The reality is China invites MNCs and later shafts them badly! Ditto with India in the private sector—examples include Bajaj scooters stealing from Piaggio Italy, Hero Honda from Honda, and so on. But we are not so organized as the Chinese in stealing technology!
Well all this is nt true..They work for Google-package 9 LPA
Microsoft- 9 LPA
similarly trilogy, cadence etc etc..
everything else is bullshit..if tcs or infosys offer them the same,they will work for them too..
I do believe indians have superior brains. The craze to go abroad to earn money leaves your criativity and you are trained to be a IT worker. I am a IIT post graduate but decided to work for indian company and bring them to MNC level. The type of freedom you get to explore your criativity in more with indian companies, offcourse i assume you are not a part of Lala COMPANY. Do join companies like TATA, MAHINDRA AND serve your nation rather than beacoming a worker in MNC’S.
Dear sadanand bhosale,
I doubt how u are serving ur country by working in indian companies. Do not mention tata, mahindra etc. It is more like serving ur lazy ass then serving ur country if u work in them. so my suggestion will be start earning some real dollars if u want to help. There is nothing left in these sarkari style working company. And beside u r only an iit post graduate that doesn’t make u iitian.
Dear sadanand bhosale,
I doubt how u are serving ur country by working in indian companies. Do not mention tata, mahindra etc. It is more like serving ur lazy ass then serving ur country if u work in them. so my suggestion will be start earning some real dollars if u want to help. There is nothing left in these sarkari style working company. And beside u r only an iit post graduate that doesn’t make u iitian. ok
I agree with the writer’s view. Being IIT graduate you must look beyound a general class bachelors who take pride in calling themselves a software engineers. If they work in service industry, most probably they are white collar workers only. Let me call them a cheap labours who are exploited by Uncle SAM (US). Indian IT firms must look for there own products, own innovations. Lets put 10% of profit in R&D and creat something of your own. Then probably a patrioatic IIT graduate will look with respect to Indian IT companies.
If my views are hurting someone please forgive me. After all its my views hence i respect them
IIT grads will go where the moolah is. To join IIT they spend lot of moolah in coaching colleges, some time 2 to 3 years in a row. Somebody do a survey of the age of IIT grads at the time of their joining IIT. I bet on the average they are 1 or 2 years older than other students joining ordinary colleges. Due to this problem, IITs have proposed to cut down the number of attempts. I read somewhere that IIT-JEE topper had done so in his 4th attempt. What a waste of life that too at its prime time!
Trilogy is a (IT consulting services) company which gives a fresher salary of Rs50,000 to 60,000, where as our desi IT cos are known to give below 20k for freshers. Where do you think the our IIT old boys will go? These IT already old boys don’t mind becoming 2/3 years more older by joining the IIM to get more real moolah. That is the long and short of it.
I remember when companies like PSI and Infosys were started as non-service cos in the late 70s or early 80s. Now very few know that a IT product company like PSI existed, in Bangalore. At least Infosys is alive because it caught on to IT service provision to Uncle Sam. The cause for our IT boom is not within the country. We are carrying somebody’s burden and getting wages in return. As soon as somebody invents a trolley the coolie will be checked off. Who knows some genius may develop a product to write codes.