“DHEERENDRA GOPAL” writes: Later this year, the US Congress will sit down to discus reforms to the high-skill immigration policy. But if someone is to be held responsible for the current sorry state of affairs in the H1B visa area, it is Indian IT firms.
The H1B program was started in “Good Faith” by the United States to help people from “all over the world” to come to and work in the US.
Supporters of the program claimed that the H1-B helped meet the shortfall of scientists and engineers by allowing the import of guest workers, thus preventing the “outsourcing” of high-wage, high-skill jobs to low-cost countries. And they claimed the program paved the way for the immigration of the “best and the brightest” foreigners.
But large Indian IT houses have overexploited the loopholes in the HIB program to such an extent that they have made nonsense of its original intentions.
In their greed for higher and higher profits (every Indian firm hits 30% profits every quarter) they have spoiled a perfectly working program a few years ago to such a state that now getting an H1B has got less nothing to do with talent but has become like buying a supperlotto ticket.
A very good article by Ron Hira in the March 28 issue of the “Economic Policy Institute” exposes how Indian IT firms are playing around with the HIB program.
On the one hand, the HIB program, as is being used, is not encouraging the immigration of the “best and brightest”.
“The largest users of the H-1B program are offshore outsourcing firms, whose business model depends on moving as much work overseas as possible. And these firms do not use the program as a bridge to immigration, for they sponsor very few of their workers for green cards. For example, in 2006, Wipro Technologies applied for 19,450 H1B positions but only for 69 green cards, a 0.004 green card to H1B application ratio.”
And on the other hand, the Indian IT firms are blatantly using HIB for labour arbitrage. The H1B program’s primary safeguard for US as well as H1B workers was the requirement that an H-1B worker be paid the prevailing wage.
Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) has a vast majority of its personnel in the US on either H1B or L1 visas. But its vice-president Phiroze Vandrewala has told Businessworld how his company derives a competitive advantage by paying its visa holders below-market wages.
“Our wage per employee is 20-25 percent lesser than U.S. wage for a simlar employee. Typically, for a TCS employee with five years experience, the annual cost to the company is $60,000-70,000, while a local American employee might cost $80,000-100,000. This (labour arbitrage) is a fact of doing work onsite. It’s a fact that Indian IT companies have an advantage here and there’s nothing wrong in that….The issue is that of getting workers in the U.S. on wages far lower than local wage rate.”
I cannot help agree with the facts in this article. I totally agree that firms like these which abuse the system ought to be severely punished and blacklisted, so that genuine US companies can get their required workers, when they need them.
Read the full story here: Outsourcing America’s technology and knowledge jobs
A Great Article by DG!
I have a simple solution (as always). Let the US makers pass a law that allows H1-B workers to find alternate jobs without running foul of their H1-B visas–any time they feel like.
>They should also pass another law that correctly regulates the proportion of H1-B workers they can bring in to say, to only 20% max of the US workforce doing same work in the same company!
Guess what, overnight we will have 100s of Infy and TCS-like companies in USA. And USA will be a heroic nation with the most dedicated IT workers ever in the history of the universe.
All the Golti IT shops will have to shut because they cannot get workers without violating the other provision. It is the cheap bania tactics–sorry for the phrase, I am not offending any community here–that has kept Infy and TCS and others profitable at the human cost of these ‘IT coolies’. It is time these companies get their just desserts!
Good article. Actually the Americans have introduced a bill which will monitor the whole H1b program. This may also cause grief to people who have already gone on H1b (even the ones with the right skills working at good companies). All this because of our IT service body shoppers shamelessly taking advantage of the H1b visa norms not being enforced by the US. They probably trusted companies who apply for this visa adhering to the norms (no wage depression, use H1b for skilled labour not labour arbitrage etc.). Anyway now they have realised. More than anything it will show to Americans that Indian companies dont have the trust, honesty or backbone which other big corporations around the world have.
The Whole H1B , Immigration , IT services , Consulting ( the real one) and BPO’s has become too Complex . what started as simple process to get some work done is being abused by Indian It Cos who follow no Ethics in Business . The rule is being abused by more Desi companies here in US to bring in Kith and Kin . One would be surprised to see Former Bank employees , School teachers , Shop floor guys, Police Constables Quit their steady jobs to come to US . Now I can see them work in restaurants , Saree Shops and other desi stores .
All for a few dollars more .
Looks like the writer is biased toward the Top Indian companies….least realizing the value that such companies are creating for many US companies. The Wipros and TCS of the world are providing world class service, helping large enterprises preserve their bottomline, create superior value, and the list can go on….
LOL…Hooo Haahhhahha .
Vikram are you working in Moon. I work with more than 20 Consultants from Satyam around me . I can certainly add statistics of the value that they are providing to the end client. What World Class are you talking about. I am managing these guys and I know their quality .
Back off a little bit .
Have a written a piece of code in your Life ? then you would know quality .
Ok , Now That I read your profile . Let me provide the stark situation that you companies are providing .
Since you are in Management Ladder you speak shit . I am a delivery guy I will put forth the ‘REALITY’ and it bites certainly .
This includes all Indian Cos operating in US ( Incl Wipro ) , let me ask a few questions .
What delivery Model do you work with?
What is the offshore/Onsite ratio do you maintain?
Do you or you Dont Cook resumes to sell to ‘NEVER’ suspecting client ?
You bring half baked or FOB’s to US on H1B or L1 ( the most abused work permit ) , Guys who got a week training in India and present him in front of client ?
What is the Quality and Bottom Line benefits? Now dont talk about that Shit like CMM and ISO ? I have been a FAR lead myself for LEVEL 5 assessment.
Answer the above questions and resume after you are done . I shall present the reality .
Alright Mr. Bottomline Vikram Chandna!
Where are you? Can you reply, please?
I am not making up anything .I worked in an offshore facility and clearly knows the way the resources are worked .The Kind of quality that gets delivered . All the high funda management talks from marketing guys .
I am all familiar and possess much more experience ( as per your profile)
and have been in all the ladder in consulting world.
I know fully well the potential of companies like your present and I also know the otherside of story since I am at end customer .
We havent really learnt from History . Centuries ago the feudal lords and samantha rajas fought among themselves for supremacy .This allowed the europeans to come and conquer us and rule us for 200 years .
Today with IT and BPO’s samething is happening . Instead of gaining respect that we can do better jobs in technology .
We are fighting amongst ourselves in the Price war ( Consulting rates ) and losing a grip . This has made some of the customer to look beyond India .
if Wipro quotes 20$/hour , Satyam Quotes 15$/hour and TCS Quotes 10$/hour . You know what I paid a mexican 30$ to lift my Lawn mower onto the pickup truck . if I had advertised maybe WIPRO would have sent a consultant to pick for me (sorry to say ) ..But deeply hurts .
You Guys are no better than Pimps . You are ready to sell the knowledge base that the Country Institutions have built over years for peanuts .
You are not only abusing the Tax payers money which goes into providing education abd build engineer for better fuure but also abusing the faith that the Corporate America is entrusted upon you .
What should I call you ‘White collared Pimps’?
You are paying peanuts as salary and making guys work like DOGS so that you can deliver a ‘FIXED’ bid project in record time so as to cut Competation . Whom did you cut in competation ? Another Indian Company? Finally one day a sweeper in Vietnam will be charging less than you guys .
I think these MBA types won’t come back any time soon! They have been busted.
I have never believed in the IT excellence in India any way! What banglaore and Mysore has Are IT sweat shops where program codes are bashed into place by IT coolies. What this has done is to skew the education system so that science and arts subjects are losing out to IT which eventually churns out more IT coolies in India and exports a number of them to the USA for undercutting the local IT guys there!
A few words for you. You would probably not have heard them at your mock sessions or whatever at MBA, and from PMI, CMM or whatever you have read from books:
Wage depression/almost infinite supply of cheap labour
Low quality (as in Bad Specs/Design/Code, quality as in Zen and the art…, not ISO/CMM ratings given by KPMG for a fee after looking into some documentation)
Engineering (building and shipping out products) Vs. Labour management (i.e. being a whipmaster)
Services/dependance on others Vs. Products/independence
Artha aagalilla? Aagodhuilla.
Go back to whipping your labour on the shop floor. Jerk!
Lads like Dheerendragopal are the kind of people we have in abundance in our country. He is himself sitting in the US and also says he manages a team of 20 consultants and claims he has the experience and what not but mate dont you think all the things you said are contradicitng. You somehow seem to know all the corporate secerts of resume cooking etc., in the Indain compaines etc., but American corporations dont seem to know these, I wonder how? America never started H1B to help people to come and share American resources, please have a relook at why it was launched. I would have loved to had taken up each point you have raised and debate it but I think it will be of no use as morons like you do all the talking and I would rather do some work to improve things rather than post a thousand comments.
Ok ..Boochi ..you seem to be Intelligent . I am willing for a fair debate . Go ahead.
I never said h1B should be abolished and H1B shouldnt be allowed to work . I was only telling how the program has been abused by BODY Shoppers and Code workshops .
Come on Boochi where are you? Is it simply shoot-and-scoot is it?
Pray tell us what great work you do that is improving humanity?
1. DG , u have a ‘I’ fixation, come out of it ( counted 7 of them in a comment)
2. DB, tuturi saaku saar
3. try managing 20 goras ..guess someone found that out I guess …no wonder u are managing 20 desis
4. share knowledge abt good practices in what ever manner u can to FOB , FOTB…thats the only way we can grow
anon..maja maadi saar
How about starting with a good practice of giving yourself a name? If you want to fly higher about these issues, please make sure you are smoking the right weed or even drinking the right henda. Thanks.
Muthry kelasa clean mADodu.
Al Gore “Inconvenient Truth” nalli ondu mAthu heLatAre.
” If I person’s job depends on not telling the truth, he would never tell the truth”
Vikram Bahusha antha dharma sankaTadallirabEku.
Vikram thara business type galige data analysis madi torisidare artha agutte.
Adakkoskara ondu chikka prayatna mADidEne.
DB aware , dont u think ur response to anon is like ‘pot calling kettle black’ and wrt weed and all , do restrain ur language ; reference to henda /weed makes horrible reading.
Yaarappa neenu anon. I have an identity crisis now. Thought I was the only anonymous coward out there…
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Dheerendragopal, mate thanks for the debate offer. My apologies for having called you a Moron in my earlier posting. I should have refrained from doing so. Mate the point I was making was that its all nice to talk about values and ethics once you have your tummy filled up and have cash to spend on things. You are suggesting that we should have our engineers do innovate work than working off in the US or do something that can be done by non-engineers, I understand the logic in what you are saying, but try telling that to a engineer who has come out of college and is looking for a break so that he can take care of his family and start taking responsibility of his father,mother and siblings. I dont think its the compaines that are at fault that hire such lads and send them on projects and also as you say pay them peanuts. Now you tell me what would have them do if they shouldnt be doing what they are doing. Its better they earn the peanuts and help themselves and thier depends rather than sit and do nothing. You need some good infrastructre, rewards, recognition and above all financial security to be able pursue something new. We in India unfortunately dont have it yet, I am not sure if we will have it in the near future too. Once we get there I am sure we will have adequate funds and resources working to get new technologies rather than just using them. I do agree to your point about the quality of work that these shops are delivering, the quality seems to be going down as importance is given to the Quantity. The industry should look at this and come up with solutions. The Government can pitch as well with some well defined policies that help compaines and also protect the intrest of employees working for these compaines. Until we dont change the way politics works in our country (based on Relegion and caste) things will keep moving at a snails pace. People have to change as well becasue politicans are people amongst us.
Doddi Buddi, mate I didnt respond to your comment, so not sure why you wanted have a go at me, anyway its a free country so I guess you have the liberty. I dont do anything that helps humanity mate, nor did I claim that I do something like that. All that I said was I would rather do some work rather than post comments. Forgive my ignorance but I have been trying hard to analyze that sentence to figure out how that meant I am doing something great for humanity.
Boochi..couldnt agree less to most of your points . I have absolutely no issues for programmers who are fellow Indians . As a team lead and manager I have always encouraged the freshers and also gone thru all the phase myself a decade back .
I am only pointing to the bad business ethics of some of our consulting companies . We are not playing the rules and the result is Phillipines is emerging as an alternative factory . My present client ( the Fortune 5 company ) is so frustrated by the Indian vendors that he decided to open a comptency center in Phillipines .The reason as I see .
1.Undercutting competation by quoting very very less ( as low as 11$/hour) ..an illegal alien makes 10$ . So are we underselling our education and knowledge .Isnt it worse than a Pimp ?
2.I would suggest fresh gruaduates should be allowed to work in India for 2 years and then process their H1B to send abroad . What is happening is
to Undercut US High tech salary they are brining in fresh graduates for as low as 55K . Naturally it replaces a highly paid ( 80K+) american worker .
all this tactics to show 30% growth you can call it greed or market driven
we need to high light in Blogs that the Models that the offshore companies adapt is changed .
Dheerendragopal sure mate, you do have a valid point. Now would I call them Pimps for that, I am not sure, maybe I wouldnt. I would agree with you that we undersell our services. I am not a economist but I am sure this trend will have to change as compaines will not be able to sustain long by churning out quantity than quality. The thing you mention about people being made to work in India for 2 years is a good one, heck I think we should have all graduates do a year or 2 in the defence forces, this way they will get the disipline they need and also the patriotism instilled in them.
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could not agree more on this H1B issue!!!
i work with one of the companies (black)listed here….and i have my H1B
petition approved !! :)
i dont know what my petition contains, what is my client’s name
and I dont know the technologies quoted against my so called Skill set!!!!
recently one of my friends discovered that the client quoted on
his petition was a dummy one..the skill set was dubious…and bfr the visa
intrvw, he was briefed about ‘his’ client and ‘his’ skillset !!!
Also, the petitions are sent for actual stamping only when the requirement
is there….lest the guy might abscond with a visa stamped h1b!!!
can IT get worse than this ?
pls forgive me for remaining anon….coz, very soon i might be going to US
on a H1 !!!
That is so…
There are few things that one need to take care before coming here to US .
Otherwise you could end yourself pennyless and also one should know the law. I will post the ‘WHISTLE BLOWER’ act that has been put on house floor .so you are aware of such laws .
huch hidhidhiya ninge – Blacklist company indha H1 maadsi US ge hogthaiddhiya? Illa sumne maja maadthaiddhiya illi?
I am not a kannadiga…..i didnt get what u said….
Just joking man – nothing serious.
Kya re anon,
Tu pagal ho gaya hai kya – Blacklist company se H1 banaakar US jaa raha hai? Ya masthi kar raha hai?
Have you gone mad – You want to go to the US using a H1 made by a blacklisted company? Or are you just kidding (‘doing maja’)?
Arre, by blacklisting, i meant blacklisted by DG…
and trust me, i wasnt after getting a H1B…..
its the HR that picked me up and asked me to furnish the docs alongwith the filled appln ;)
and im not kidding man….im serious….
If it is big consulting company .Go Ahead .
If they are paying peanuts stick for sometime and then transfer your H1B to another ( not a desi) company .
Any bonds/Surety is not legal while in US . if you are harrased by your company there are laws to protect you .
Best of luck.
yes its a big consulting company :) ….and they pay peanuts….
DG, u said bonds / surety are not valid in the US….Do you mean that the bonds/surety signed here in india cant be exercised by my company if i transfer my h1b to some other company after reaching US ?
There is nothing like Bond /Sureity . If your company is TCS then there is already a Court order ruling against such bonds in a TCS case.Dont worry about it .
You Shouldnt get unduly concerned since yours is a big firm .If you stick around a long time. they are sure to exploit you by paying you peanuts and making big bucks out of you .
If you need any information contact me myname@yahoo
It had to happen eventually — Todays Deccan herald
Explain use of H1-B visas: US senators to Indian cos
Republican Senator Charles Grassley and Democratic Senator Richard Durbin have asked nine foreign-based firms, including some leading Indian companies that used 20,000 of such visas, to disclose details about their workforce.
Contending that the H-1B visa programme is being abused to displace qualified American workers, two US lawmakers have asked nine foreign-based firms, including some leading Indian companies that used 20,000 of such visas, to disclose details about their workforce and their use of the special programme.
As the US Senate gets ready to take up the comprehensive immigration reform legislation, the two top law makers — Republican Senator Charles Grassley and Democratic Senator Richard Durbin — said “more and more it appears that companies are using H-1B visas to displace qualified, American workers.”
“As we move closer to debate on an immigration bill, I continue to hear how people want to increase the number of H-1B visas that are available to companies.Considering the high amount of fraud and abuse in the visa programme, we need to take a good, hard look at the employers who are using H-1B visas and how they are using them,” Grassley said in a statement.
“Supporters claim the goal of the H-1B programme is to help the American economy by allowing companies to hire needed foreign workers. The reality is that too many H-1B visas are being used to facilitate the outsourcing of American jobs to other countries,” Senator Durbin said.
The two have written letters to the firms to determine if the programme is being used for its intended purpose, which is to fill a worker shortage for a temporary time period.
The companies the senators sent letters to were Infosys Technologies, Wipro Ltd., Tata Consultancy Services Ltd., Patni Computer Systems, I-Flex Solutions Inc., Satyam Computer Services Ltd., Larsen & Toubro Infotech Ltd., Tech Mahindra Americas Inc. and Mphasis Corp.
“We have to look at the system that generates these visas and the way they are used. This legislation will help protect American workers first by stopping H-1Bs from being exploited and used as outsourcing visas,” Durbin said.
He said that he expects the companies to cooperate and answer his questions to ensure accurate information is being used as Congress begins debate on new immigration policy.
Senators Grassley and Durbin recently introduced legislation that would overhaul the H-1B and L-1 visa programs to give priority to American workers and crack down on unscrupulous employers who deprive qualified Americans of high-skill jobs.
The H-1B visa programme, which was launched in 1990, allows foreign scientists, engineers and technologists to be employed for upto six years in the US, at the end of which they must obtain permanent residency or return home.
Information that is being asked of the companies are on the number of visas they hold, wages, efforts to recruit qualified American workers, outsourcing of jobs to other countries and whether any U.S. workers have had their responsibilities outsourced.
“… We have been concerned about reported fraud and abuse of the H-1B and L visa programmes, and their impact on American workers. We are also concerned that the programme is not being used as Congress intended,” the lawmakers have said in their letter to company executives.
While some members of Congress have focused on increasing the annual cap of the H-1B programme, “we believe it is important to understand how H-1B visas are being used by companies”.
There are very few companies that have any bussiness ethics left in them.. They want to mint more and more money by sending under qualifed people. Fresh grads go over board on there onsite assignment….
Most times these guys end up doing only documentation or manual work which involves very little technical expertise….
You can transfer to another company and then report your old company to DOL if they try any extra-legal means or try to ‘enforce’ any bonds. You just need to report the details and DOL will take necessary action. Check any relevant H1b forums for details.
now it seems i may not be able to get my visa stamped in first place !! :)
coz the approved petition is an year old :)
new restrictions might simply block stamping od such petitions !!!
Forget about big firms but little Indian consulting firms that are also doing a lot of harm. I have known and seen people who work for these-they are paid substandard wages and the consulting company takes up to 40 percent of the salary and then cuts taxes after they have taken the forty percent. The little IT firms also add up.
Have restrictions on giving H1-B’s to Indian nationals. That would solve the problem. And have protections for whistleblowers of fradulent Indian consulting firms, even little ones.
There is no doubt that the H1B’s being abused. But that’s only one side of the story. The other side is that even with less billing and all, folks from india provide pretty good value for the buck.
You complain that you have bunch of folks in your team who cannot bring basic skills to the table, but you are paying a lot less so how can you expect high skill for less money? Get more money and you can hire high skilled.
I am in similar position as you for my company and even though there are issues with the contractors from india they do provide pretty good value for the money. Given the number of opportunities for high skilled and citizen employees, there is a great comfort and value in hiring these folks.
No system is perfect and you can never come up with one that is perfect. So although there are issues with the H1B system, i do refrain from hating that system. Because the net impact of it is positive.
Btw, a related blog here… http://legalimmigrants.blogspot.com/
Currently a victim of the H1B lottery & am not entirely against these big firms like Infosys etc using the H1B visa program.
What I am against is the application rate. I mean thousands & thousands of visas is ridiculous & by no means do they send all those people to the US during that year. They just keep it handy. Why gobble everything ?
Survival of the fittest ? has the IT industry come to this now
If H1B was not sufficient, use L1, B1; everything in sight. Used in moderation, no one minds, but like this; oh sure it’ll raise a few red flags.
Also worth mention are those body shopping firms here who fake resumes. They should under the radar more than Infosys etc.
Lying your way through to show you have competency … come on. This ruins the credibility that we have. Why these `consultancy` firms largely run by south indians, gujratis take this path is beyond me ? During my job search many contacted me & plainly told me “through 1 month of training we will raise your resume to `look` like 6 yrs of experience”; wtf
Really ? Why did I spend my years at school then? These consultancies really have no ethics
Scrapping the H1B program is not the solution as it will only hurt the US more. More better fraud-checking measures need to be in place.
Really, the solution is simple — stop letting contract firms set up nominal US businesses to exploit the system. Require that any h1b applicant be a permanent, direct employee for the company in question. Do not allow h1bs for contract workers at all — only full time, permanent employees. It’s not that difficult, and is much more difficult to exploit.
I’d also suggest requiring that any company who brings someone in for an h1b also do whatever is necessary to get the employees green cards. Being born here, i’m not that familiar with the process, but I can just about guarantee that Infosys, Tata, etc. are doing little to nothing to help those who would genuinely want to come here.
Lastly, eliminate the “indentured servitude” aspect of the H1B program. Let genuinely qualified people work for whatever company wants them.
Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, etc. say that they need more H1Bs, and (since i’ve worked for them, I know) they aren’t lying. Finding highly skilled people is HARD, no matter where you’re looking. 9 out of 10 of the people I interview aren’t worth what we pay to fly them out for the interview. These companies will pay the prevailing wage (or better), and they’ll usually even help you get a green card. They just want good talent.
Companies like Infosys abuse the system, and need to be stopped. They’re not only harming the U.S., but they’re harming the perception of the Indian IT industry as a whole as well.
OK. So this whole desi IT H1B Visa abuse scenario can be summarized in this way. …..
the desi guy (mostly from the state of Andhra Pradesh aka Gulti / Telugu) is mentally forced by parents/Marriage market from the young age to land into USA regardless of technical skills ability or education or personal interest (which is a sad thing….)
Then the Scrupolous Desi company does not leave them for atleast couple of years or else will threaten them. Then later, this now ‘experienced’ Desi guy will inturn quickly ‘force’ his unskilled sibling/brother-in-law (who may be working as Traffic Constable or Office Clerk or even a school dropout… who knows) from India to land in USA by making fake resume for them regardless of their technical skills ability because by this time he knows/learned the loopholes to ‘Green Card’ path.
This whole thing is a ‘Desi Kith and Kin’ favour in the job market. No wonder, the USA is becoming like a Third World country.
So this whole H1B thing is a ‘Scam’ in loop and the consequences will be know in the near future…
One thing is for sure. Half the Desis spoiled this H1B thing in just 10 years (assuming the desis really started using these H1B from 1998).
So lets say for arguments sake abolish the current H1b program. And then what happens. Do you really think the US businesses are going to start hiring h1b workers by the droves. A lot of people on this forum who are blatantly criticizing the h1b program came on an h1b and 8/10 of these people were bought into the US by the same body shoppers who they have turned against vehemently on this forum.
Wake up. The h1b program for whatever its limitation has been good both for the US and for India. Think about all the foreign exchange that gets transferred back to India plus the knowledge base as well. Plus in the US companies who previously were not able to afford to complete their projects are now increasing their productivity by launching new IT initiatives to help make their businesses more efficient a win a win situation.
No one is denying that there are some bad apples in the lot. But that doesn’t mean lets malign the whole program because that is what is happening now. Finish the h1b program for consulting companies and then forget about getting hired by US firms full time because no US Company wants to keep IT programmers on its staff full time for too long, what do you think the IT initiatives can continue forever. Remember economies of scale?
And then what happens finally the work moves offshore where the same companies you are maligning will do the work for lets say $10/hr. Who will loose out in this process you the ones in the US. Are you ready for that?
In the end all I can say is let the capital market take its toll. No one even under the present H1b laws can hold an employee hostage, h1b transfer laws are very lenient and allow transfers between companies easily. So if you don’t like pay at one job take another better still as an h1b if you are not happy working for Indian companies get hired by US ones if you think they would pay you better.
But by fighting among ourselves and maligning the H1b program itself because of a few bad apples guess who is going to win. Probably a red neck senator who is going to use your justified complaints to draft a law which is totally right winged and unjustified because he doesn’t like the brown skinned Indians coming to the US.
So yes lets fix the system by not getting used and abused and by knowing our rights and
also knowing what is our worth in the market.
Real Green Cards for all H1B holders!
In essence it would solve the issue – give all H1B folks that enter the US a Real Green Card when they show up at the border. Here we are talking about a Real Green Card – one that would allow the worker to look for any job anywhere in the US.
Currently, H1B visa employee can only work for the employer that brought them into the country. With a real Green Card they would no longer be a techno-slave to the owner of the H1B visa technically they could look for another job as soon as they crossed the border and got handed the card. If they found they were being paid below average wages they could move to another job. If their boss was an ass they could split to another job. This would restore balance to the employer-employee equation for the H1B employee.
Of course the employers would not like this since they want the worker to be their slave. My guess is that Corporate support for the H1B program would dry up immediately. However, it would be a fascinating test of the program’s real intent. We, the IT worker in the US, know its all about getting high skilled workers for low pay but the Companies/Corporations that use the H1B visa system will never admit it. Logically they should support giving Real Green Cards to H1B visa holders but since they lie you can expect their bitter opposition.
By the by check out:
to see how the H1B system is being gamed in the US.
I work with SAP, have for 13 years now. I am often having to screen for SAP positions and the number of fake resumes I receive is mind boggling. There is NO SHORTAGE OF FRAUDS AND FAKES already in the U.S.
Problem is, they are already HERE and they are providing fake resumes, from “services” that charge to put the fake resumes together for them, then have real Indian consultants do tech screens for them, then someone else shows up on the project.
MASSIVE, MASSIVE, MASSIVE, MASSIVE, MASSIVE and widespread FRAUD already here in the U.S. These people have NO conscience and will lie about anything. Then again, what do you expect. They got here dishonestly to begin with, and continuing to commit the FRAUD on U.S. business that got them here seems to be the way they get things “done.”
I’ve seen so many messes on projects that it’s frightening. Steer clear of the frauds! Steer clear of the cons. Steer clear of the H-1B’s…
So true. One sap consultant told my wife that she will have to go through the training and he will get everything ready for H1. It turned out that this guy got a 2 yrs experience certificate from a well known company in Bangalore.
My wife was most disappointed, she told the consultant to stop the process coz she did not want anything to do with LIE and FRAUD.
A note of painful reality needed here on firms like TCS..I used to work in Tata Consultancy Services earlier. Frankly, I was shocked to see the level of staff exploitation as well as lack of ethics in their client work culture, contrary to the general impression created by them in front of the Industry. I remember that they completely copied a major Benchmarking study from one client to another without any sincere effort done at all, happened in front of my eyes.. It is sad to see the Industry running after and incredibly enriching these kind of firms, who fundamentally grew from highly unethical and exploitation driven business models. Also, it may surprise many of us to know that none of the good and qualified professionals stayed long in TCS in 1990s and beyond. Most of the good genuine professionals were harassed and suppressed politically by the highly predominant and huge number of low-quality and less educated but highly political old timer staff in TCS , and left the firm after demotivation in this kind of negative work environment. Result is that all the low quality and less educated people who have stuck to TCS past 10-20+ years are occupying most of senior positions nowadays, while almost all the good people in the past 10 odd years left due to demotivation and harassment in this highly political work environment.. LET THIS BE A CHALLENGE TO TCS, IF THEY CAN REFUTE THIS FACT.. There are hundreds and maybe thousands of good ex-TCS employees who can vouch for this sad fact..
Naanu Reena, Hubballi inda – nemmellarige Namaskargalu!!! This is an amazing blog, I must say. The knowledge that u guys r imparting is appreciable.
Doon Tec (DTI) don’t trust this people, they have said me that you need to pay security deposit on behalf of filling H1B, when you are in US and work for 6 months we will refund you money back. But after giving the amount i have not recieve any papers and i have not recieve any money back.
I am coming from avg. middle class family where this amount is big amount. They have taken money through other consultant here in india, who is cheater, who had promise me lot, but when i have gave money and papers for visa filing, they have not picking my phone or replying to my mail and when i tried to reach Mr. Gupta he shout on me as if i have made big mistake. Friends i have made a big mistake, for that my family had also suffered but i request you all that please stay away from them, they will not give you any proof of your money taken or anything, please make sure that they give you proper paper of proof because one common template proof has no value legally and you lose all your money.
Today when the same date come when i have given money, it make me feel so depress as i can’t able to go US, because of dirty tricks played by DTI.
NJ is famous for Desi Consultancy Bazaar and this type of consultancy are stars of this Bazaar, who hire anyone without asking anything.
Stay away from them, they always play NEW Cards to play OLD Trick.
SPAM1 : we have our offices in india, in other part of USA, blah blah (All Fake, as your resume :(
SPAM2: we have lot of consultant working ( <10 few and that to because they are non-technical and use this **** for coming here.)
SPAM3: we have direct client (NO Direct Client)
SPAM4: we will pay you this and that (All Fake again as your resume.)
SPAM5: consultant saying that this is best consultancy (ask him 1 question, than brother why you are on bench and are you getting salary for not working?)
SPAM6: as you are now becoming to their fake system, make a habbit of speaking false, as you need to.
SPAM7: we have our guest house blah blah… (Nothing is free, again try asking the same consultant who were praising them)
SPAM8: this time we are having lots of consultant coming to join our team from all over the world. (again fake as your resume, only 1 consultant might be coming and that to after 2….. anyways that you now come across so no need to mention that figure the big $$$$)
SPAM9: we are provinding training blah blah (Nothing is free, again try asking the same consultant who were praising them)
Fact – only few consultant worked for them and all have complain their bad practise so better prepare to search another one as they are closing soon.
Right off the bat – I hate any and all indian so called consultant firms.
Getting out of grad school and posting my resume, I started getting the calls promising me the world. At that point, I was completely clueless about what these guys were all about. Also, the only reason they called me was because I have an indian name – I can usually hear their disappointed sighs when I tell them I am not indian.
So went to a place in VA (Xceltech or some dumb shit) and from the moment i got to their “guest house” I knew I was fucked. It was a complete mess, I didn’t even want to put my bag down.
Got to their office and that is when I started hearing how they worked – I was flabbergasted. I could not believe the unethical, immoral behavior these guys were practicing.
Training…what training? You mean reading the guide that came with Peoplesoft or searching the web for sql tutorials? And again, there was always someone there who has been there from the start, trying to convince you that this is the best you will ever get.
As for “direct clients” – they had some dude looking at monster and dice – like I had been doing. But they are just playing on peoples’ desperation for a change to get your foot in the door. I told them I need time to think about all this and after one week of trying to forget everything I that I was taught or believe in, I told them I am out.
Still didn’t have a visa and my time is running out. After a few months, I had to do this shit again. I ended up in Jersey – desi IT headquarters.
Again another nightmare.
Now whenever I get an email about jobs esp. if it is some indian contacting me, if I don’t delete immediately, I will look at the company info – if they have a contact office in india, it is deleted – i do not care what they are selling.
I will not lie, cheat or steal.
indian it firms – fuck you all
Is this debate still opened? If yes, then I can add something here….
Why blame TCS/Infy/Wipro/Satyam? Do not forget MNC sitting (or should I say shitting) in India. I used to work for Tatas, then left them to join a big name MNC in India. Coming to USA was not the primary goal and I was looking for a place to settle and enjoy the work for some time before I can think about marriage. At first every thing looked better.
Then slowly clouds started to rise. They hired a top guy from desi consultancies to look for new ways to cut cost and made him the biggest decision maker. Remember, at that time we were doing well everywhere around the world. But human (sick!) greed does not know any limits.
Right now I am working in USA for the same company in a hot tech field and I have got more than 5 vendor certifications, awards and client appreciations!! Guess what!!! My salary is little over $5k each month!! Where? In bay area. It can be less if I am in east coast!!
You see, the food I hate most now-a-days is peanuts.
Seeking new avenues!! I hope I can get one soon.
“Free Market” is really simply labor arbitrage. They have absolute advantage in labor costs which means the industry must be gutted and all wages must fall.
If it were real free trade India would have their own version of a visa program for Americans. When Americans lose their jobs, it is the end of the line for them and time to find a new career. Why do tech work in the US if the competition has an absolute advantage over you? At some point the Indians will be the highly qualified ones as most Americans will be pushed out of the industry because of wage arbitrage.
Free trade is a lie until labor can move freely. So those wanting free trade should also desire to open the boarders freely for everyone to come and go as you please. The secondary consequence is also that any government infrastructer must also have plans for lower taxes.
The good news is that with this global depression all Americans will finally have to take a pay cut because of the labor arbitrage. And these pay cuts could last for a generation as we grind down to the global average. All wages must fall and the purchasing power of all citizens in the US must decline. American’s are not special and bring nothing of any more value to the table. Places like India and China have access to the technology we gave them, the capital we gave them and a hugely depressed poverty stricken labor market that will take 30 years to grind through or more.
In a more crude form. The price of free trade is importing poverty. As long as the arbitrage remains it means massive protectionist profits for capital as they simply leverage the difference against each other. Simply more proof that capital doesn’t innovate, scientists and engineers do.
Doon Tec (DTI) :
I have worked for them for 3 years and had no issues at all, some people who deal will middleman in India get stuck because they don’t deal with the company directly..
Its very important that you deal with the company directly and not thru middleman in India like your friends or relatives…
Please remember do not blame the company if you are not worth a job in USA….
Have a Nice Day
Title 8,1182. Inadmissible aliens
(5) Labor certification and qualifications for certain immigrants (A) Labor certification
(i) In general. Any alien who seeks to enter the United States for the purpose of performing skilled or unskilled labor is inadmissible, unless the Secretary of Labor has determined and certified to the Secretary of State and the Attorney General that–
(I) there are not sufficient workers who are able, willing,
qualified (or equally qualified in the case of an alien described in
clause (ii)) and available at the time of application for a visa and
admission to the United States and at the place where the alien is to
perform such skilled or unskilled labor, and
(II) * * * the employment of such alien will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of workers in the United States similarly employed. * * *
(ii) Certain aliens subject to special rule. For purposes of clause 36 (i)(I), an alien described in this clause is an alien who–
(I) is a member of the teaching profession, or (II) has exceptional ability in the sciences or the arts.
i see perfectly no wrong in such practices by Indian IT companies. thats the advantage India has… why not use it… is it wrong that we can make the same rocket’s cyogenic engine indigenous at much lower cost when we were denied it due to US pressure??? shedding the inflated costs while maintaining quality has become important trait of Indian talent.
And looking at the purchasing power Indian workers who have their base still rooted in India are not paid less. A local US workers would need to shell out more money to purchase the same utility in his country as compared to a Indian using his money in India. Most Indian workers either return back after some time or regularly transfer money to their parent/family in India. And when this 30% less wage dollar (as the writer numbered) comes to India it has the purchasing power similar to the higher wage of a local US workers who is spending his whole life in that country only.
Lets americans invent ways for their benefit we need to look at our interest only, thats how the whole world behaves… isn’t this simple
you all are bunch of bhenchods.
I am an Indian who obtained an American education and worked in America and the West for International companies. I am shocked how the good nature and charity of America has been abused by us Indians.
The level of fraud and abuse of the American system is shocking. Makes me ashamed to be an Indian. Every visa has been abused: H1b, L1, B1, R1 (religious worker), F1 (student- fake universities like UNVA and Tristate.. the ‘students’ were actually working)!
There is no way someone with only an Indian education (apart from exceptions, of course) should qualify for an H1 or L1. IIT is average by world standards; IIM is crap.
I returned to India for family reasons. I first worked for an American captive, then for an Indian “IT” company, a major outsourcer. Working for the latter was shocking. Like working with 15 year old kids.
And for the management of the work- Indian MBAs do not teach how to manage responsibilities; only how to use buzzwords in horridly cluttered presentation slides.
In India, I have encountered fake doctorates, fake degrees, rampant nepotism, etc.
Lying under oath is done in India with no shame. Cheating non-Indians is not considered bad. (Cheating your own workers is not considered bad– even when it leads to miserable quality of work.) Really, we Indians have to create/borrow a system of ethics.