Martha Nussbaum, the University of Chicago professor, has an article in the latest issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education in which she views Samuel Huntington‘s “Clash of Civilisations” thesis through the prism of Gujarat. On the day Asia’s biggest mosque was made the target of attack in Hyderabad, it makes for compelling reading.
“The real “clash of civilizations” is not between “Islam” and “the West,” but instead within virtually all modern nations—between people who are prepared to live on terms of equal respect with others who are different, and those who seek the protection of homogeneity and the domination of a single “pure” religious and ethnic tradition.
“At a deeper level, as Gandhi claimed, it is a clash within the individual self, between the urge to dominate and defile the other and a willingness to live respectfully on terms of compassion and equality, with all the vulnerability that such a life entails.”
In the piece headlined “Fears for Democracy in India”, Nussbaum argues that the Indian democracy is in crisis while America and the world have been distracted by the War on Terror, Iraq and the Middle East. And that what is happening in India is a serious threat to the future of democracy in the world.
More controversially, Nussbaum contends that the forces that assail democracy, as in Gujarat, are internal to many, if not most, democratic nations, and they are not foreign:
“They are our own ideas and voices, meaning the voices of aggressive European nationalism, refracted back against the original aggressor with the extra bile of resentment born of a long experience of domination and humiliation.”
Read the full article here: Fears for Democracy in India
Looking forward to reading the book — because the author is Nussbaum and publisher is Harvard.
Still, when a scholar publishes outside his or her area of expertise, I see a red flag. Are they pushing an agenda? Pandering to a particular constituency?
Professor Nussbaum is a distinguished ethicist, but she has no record of any expertise in navigating the complexities of Indian politics, religious heritage, or culture.
I clicked on the link and read her essay in the Chronicle. The essay tells us nothing new. It’s full of the old claims and breast-beating repeated ad nauseum by India’s English media over the years. My only reaction was, “Come on Martha, tell us something new!”
It is relatively easy to take a liberal position in the face of religious fanaticism. I respect the liberal scholars but they are sort of getting to bore me, sick as I am of Muslim fundamentalism and Islam’s ideological persecutions of “infidels.”
In fact I am so sick of Islamic persecutions that loony iconoclasts like Christopher Hitchens seem to make far more sense than mainstream pacifist intellectuals like Nussbaum.
But I hope Nussbaum’s book somehow calls my impatience.
I do not agree with Mysorean on one count. I felt that Martha had something new to say.
In fact I believe most of the problems of India are due to the fact that social and critical reasoning skills are never taught in Indian schools. Without these we have ended up with a population but no citizens. It is also important to time these teachings from very early stages..you have to open the young minds and then fill them with solid with a foundation of sensitivity and then allow them on a explorative journey in the quest of scientific temper.
I have not heard of any intellectuals beating chest on reforming the education system. They talk about being tolerant for other religion but never teach that you need to be tolerant of other person first..
Four most important qualities my daughter is learning in her school now are..( I learnt that most of the schools in US have that as basis of their curriculum )
1) Wait for your turn
2) Share
3) Express yourself and also allow others to express
4) Finish what you started
Culture of tolerance gets ingrained in the young minds that automatically people form lines when they see the person at the counter is already dealing with someone. Tell me do we do that with the kids in India. Anywhere you go jump right to be beginning of the line.. this message gets repeated many times and young minds then go to be religious fanatics…
Only when you have an open mind and tolerant of opposite view can you study science and then be scientific in your understanding.. Because science tests everything and forces you to change your belief when a proof suggests contrary.
What Martha pointed out was schools have become rote houses where none of these is being taught. Gandhi had a mesmerizing influence on the nation that somehow made others like Nehru share with intellectual opposites like Patel.
But look at what is happening now. Do we have anything that is unifying like Gandhi once did. Politics has become first refuge of scoundrels. 25% of our MPs have criminal background.
We have fake scientists(Dr Kalam — He does not have PhD). fake economists (Dr Singh – He was the one brought on us 1991 bankruptcy) and now fake encounters..things will definitely get worse.
I am not cassandra..But believe me Mysorean, teaching our kids human values is more important than preparing them to take a code coolie job in Narayana Murthy’s angadi. The reference fiber optic dome in Swami Narayan temple what Martha mentioned was an allegory to cultural hollowness covered by a shell of technical superiority the code coolie generation is going to teach its progeny.
And no high flying intellectual ( I mean those, I have met on airplanes) has agreed to cultural hollowness of our civilization. That is where the clashes are going to happen.
WHy should schools take the blame, when the parents have failed in their duty?
Why should schools be the place to teach and moralize esp when most schools are state run, and it can easily become a means of inculcating the values the State feels are important or necessary?
How can parents of the last generation blame teachers, the State, schools, NR Narayana Murthy, when their stellar contribution to the fount of morality can be measured in droplets?
And what is cultural hollowness?
Why do we assume that cultural hollowness of a particular class of middle class Indian citizens means that all of India has no culture?
Does a particular section of violent, noisy Indians make ALL Indians culturally hollow and useless?
Has no society gone through this period in its history when it grapples within itself to frame a core set of values by which its society shall be ruled?
Weren’t the French Revolution, the American Civil War, the Meiji Restoration, all part of the above process? And did not the nation, in each case come out stronger? No doubt there were other cases where such civil wars ultimately lead to defragmentation, greater displacement, and finally, genocide. However, the history has shown the opposite is also true as well.
Why do we need Martha Nussbaum to tell us that our democracy is going to hell, when anybody with two eyes can see what is going on?
and more importantly… What are we doing about it? What examples have our elders (i.e., the generation of my parents, I am 22), set for us? Where are the leaders of this generation that my generation identifies with, not because of caste, or religion, but because of their ideas for our future?
narayana.
could ‘day care’ be the schooling part you are referring to? not many people can afford to send their kids to day care in India. kids grow up as focal points in small families and the rest. even this i have seen is true to only a limited extent and does not scale beyond a point. for example you must have heard of the day after thanks giving shopping. and you must have heard about the kansas & allied states’ frequent issues with evolution theory & now, global warming. in contrast, i can argue that indian masses have taken to science especially evolution much more matter of factedly, whether it is due to ignorance or due to inherent strengths or due to understanding of the separation between school & education. the ‘order’ is prolly more an artefact of the way various public entities are organized rather than schooling, ethics, humanities. ethics, morals are oversold imho. for example, if put an American CEO in Indian bussiness environment pretty soon you’ll not be able to distinguish him from the local Ambani.
the other point, about schools & culture, alok has put through eloquently.
Specifically relating to Nussbaum’s article, she takes a very simplistic view of why the BJP has succeeded. She ignores why educated middle class Indians kept voting for the BJP for nearly two decades.
Specifically commenting on arts and humanities courses vis a vis IITs and IIMs, there are no comparable institutions in India. If students do not see a job prospect or career that can be made out of education, why would they bother taking up that course. Of course there are people who are really dedicated towards a particular kind of study, but a country of tolerant, critically thinking, unemployed people is not exactly a utopia either.
Nussbaum also blindly portrays the COngress as this peace-loving, all-uniting party, ignoring its role in the anti-Sikh riots, the hypocritical appeasement of the Muslim clergy over the rights of Muslim women and the completely blase attitude it shows over illegal immigration from Bangladesh, in order to shamelessly garner Muslim votes in the name of ‘secularism’. This is not including the fact that ‘Mullah’Mulayam, who openly courts ministers expressing support for Islamic terror, Laloo Yadav who shared a campaign platform in Bihar with an Osama look alike to please Muslim voters, and the likes of Arjun Singh, who look for every opportunity to divide Hindus and grant favours on the basis of caste.
Of course Hinduism had and continues to have a caste problem. The BJP recognized it in some states, reached to some SC/ST leaders, but was beaten to it largely by regional parties like the BSP.
The Hindu right has only been successful with State support, i.e., in States where the BJP has had a full majority. Where the BJP or the Shiv Sena is not in power, the RSS/VHP/BD are unable to have their way with any sort of ease. At the same time, to categorize the NDA Government as the ‘Hindu Right’ is indicative of a large dose of ignorance, or blindness or both. Worse, she goes on to characterize the 2004 elections as a vote against the ‘Hindu right’ clearly ignoring the State elections six months before where the BJP won two States on its own. Suffice to say that eminent ethicists shouldn’t wade into the murky world of Indian politics for their own good…
She has of course rightly identified the institutions which are the real strength of Indian democracy, the higher judiciary, the EC, the press, civil society organizations. What remains to be seen is how effective these institutions will continue to be when faced with decadent, despotic political parties which have set out to grab a share of the world’s fourth largest economy.
Is this the same University of Chicago and the school of divinity where Wendy Doniger teaches and researches? No thanks but I’ll pass on this compelling reading, for I can almost tell you without reading what it says.
That article vainly tries to create a Grand Unified Theory connecting democracy, religious violence, India, USA, history and other things. Her fear of democracy weakening in India is exaggerated. I do not think there’s any such fight between people who want homogeneity and those who respect differences. As much as the “Hindu right” might gain some mileage based on this, a closer look will reveal it’s just politicians banking on hyping up religious and caste identities to gain votes.
Does anyone here think the average Indian is so highly religious that it is affecting our polity? Even considering our politics are along caste and religious lines, then what about the close to 50% citizens who are not disturbed enough by these issues to even cast their vote? Identity and emotion are low hanging fruit for politicians. They provide the maximum bang for the buck.
Crazy religious antics help political, religious organisations gain some publicity, provides time filler for media and book material for academics. It’s tangible impact is insignificant to the rest of the nation and is best ignored.
I see bigger threats to the Indian nation and democracy from Naxalism, gross inequality, jobless growth, rising expectations and politicians/bureaucracy caught in the grip of perverse systemic incentives.
Alok,
You immediately struck a chord .. I have very similar feeling.. Why did our elders bend backwards to please Nehru when we brought the first amendment for the constitution and took away our freedom.
How was it that Indian executive got emasculated by the legislative. Why were our parents mute spectators
Why didn’t Sardar Patel’s reasoning that universal suffrage should be attempted before educating people.
Why did our parents run to feed ganesha milk when that rumor was spread.
Why do a missile scientist yearn to get breast hugging from Mata ample bosom
Why do our space agency want to please Deva and Devva’s alike before it sends out even a kite?? Do law of physics change if certain homa is done. If that is so why don’t we do such homas to change biology of our legislators
Why does National Television block the footage where an Afro haired crook is caught cheating.
Why do cops want to kill devotee of this afro haired crook that too in his bed room.
Why do we do people worship… Prostrating in front of Indira ( remember India is Indira) or now a southern filmstart turned politician
Why do we fight for water land and everything when India is the second richest country in terms of arable land.
Why did Subhash Bose have to live incognito, (If at all he survived the plane crash )if he really was a hero.
All that my parents told me … maga.. chennagi bai pata madu…. I tried reasoning but in vain. I too got to see my IIT days and made my parents proud.. But inside I am hollow.
I blamed my hollowness sometime on my parents… that is in my teens.. by playing loud music of Genesis from my room.
I blamed my hollowness on the country’s constitution when I realized world largest constitutions is nothing but a piece of toilet paper looking at amendments that are done.
Why cant we force for an expiration of ideas.. Why cant we ask our politicians to retire after reaching highest post like they do in US.
Ultimately I am coming to the conclusion that ..
There is something wrong with our culture.. . We claim to be very tolerant and broad minded… but expect our wives to do pad puja of her husband.. I remember Priyanka Gandhi telling the press that her most important priority is her kids.. Why can’t Robert take care of kids..That is part of the culture I am talking. Why don’t our press ask it back to her? The list is endless. We have been conditioned by our parents to hang ourselfs to “Appa Netta Aalada Mara”.
Culture of India is culture of cunningness.. Our Gods change their moral stance at the drop of their hats ( or kirits ) and yet we do puja for them..
That is what is critical thinking about. I would not care to prostrate afro haired guru .. if I know that law of physics does not allow that…
That is what Martha talks about critical thinking.. Please note that the book is yet to be released… and her article appeared in a chronicle for higher education… So I restrict myself only to code coolie education our higher education is imparting.. that explains why we have such low output on IP and patents…
Yes what you said is right.. Building a tolerant critical thinking society from current state of India is utopian.. Because inflection points what you mentioned.. like american civil war , Meiji restoration, Storming of Bastiles have all been violent events. Otherwise, cutural changes take a very very long time if they have to happen on their own.
Only way we can do is start with simple things. Don’t ask me what they are.. That way I am making you follow me.. Think for yourself and you will know how atleast we can make difference to the next generation
The political class in India is allowed to become very powerful. The only time the democracy won through peoples’ power of ballots when in the post- emergency elections Indira Ghandi government was thrown out at the centre.
By the way, a scientist need not have a PhD- CV Raman did not have one. I have come across sheer lunatics with weak reasoning power who have PhDs.
Alok and Narayana,
Great posts! Thank you for putting it so lucidly for all of us.
Dear Friends,
Indeed great posts. Keep writing. For me too much of a thinking to write anything on the subject. The truth lies somewhere inbetween. But the way it is being put by people like Martha Nussbaum, is sick and hollow. My friends Alok and Narayana and Doddi Buddi are miles ahead in all respects thinking, articulation and language. Hats off guys.
Great Post Narayana, Particularly your last para:
Only way we can do is start with simple things. Don’t ask me what they are.. That way I am making you follow me.. Think for yourself and you will know how atleast we can make difference to the next generation”
Keep it coming gems like these.
Siva …ZULPEEE ( Zulfi)..Santhosa na ningae ..yella neenu yaeLadhae bardhawre…
Martha is the current girl friend of Amartya Sen–
Suddenly she has this [new] urge to finish of Hindu fascists and as usual the gullible Indians get carried away hook line and sinker–
what is her qualifications/background/ expertise to deal with the issues she is attemting other than a “nod” from Sen.
But a plumber from New York is more listened to than a scholar from Chennai or Bangalore–
That is our situation–Is is tragic or pathetic??
Martha has written a comic book version of Indian history:)
We should simply ignore her. But on closer examination, I did find that she had somehow inserted the Jewish angle! That explains what she and others would disapprove when it comes to Indian history.
What are Martha’s credentials on Indian History and India. I am afraid that some of the facts on Gujarat lacks credibility. The whole article seems to be written with one intention in mind – India (Hindu) bashing catering to a specfic set of jokers. No where in the article do I find reference the ethnic cleansing that has happened for years in the Kashmir valley where pandits have been chased out of their homeland with the help of external forces. Is this not an assault on democracy and basic human rights. She does not also talk of the peacful co-existence of Muslims and Hindus across various parts of India. Her focus seems only to be on Gujarat which in my opinion is just a small abberation.
Martha – Pl. know the fact that India has the second highest population of Muslims in the world and highest growth rate of population has been among muslims post independence. All this would have not been possible if the India and Hindus in particular had not accepted them as part of India. Also you have not understood democracy and probably will never. India and its democracy is of the highest order since it allows people to co-exist inspite of differences. And ofcourse there would be some frictions. But all of them add to the divergence.
Finally Martha theory about Hinduism is faulted and shows her complete ignorance about Hinduism and the essence of India. I would advice Martha to come and stay in India. She can take a few lessons about India from Mark Tully and Francious Gautier.
Lastly lets ignore such stupid articles and such things will never change our greatness as a nation and as a democracy
Title: Lies, Lies and More Lies
ISBN: 978-0-595-43549-1
LCCN: 2007904121
Publisher: iUniverse
Author: Vivek
Just Published..
Lies, Lies and More Lies
The Campaign To Defame Hindu/Indian Nationalism
A point by point answer to Martha Nussbaum’s Clash Within
Vivek
It is no coincidence that India’s recent rise as an economic and military power has been closely linked to the increasing influence of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in Indian politics and its term in office during 1998–2004. Driven by the philosophy of Hindu/Indian Nationalism, this entity, more of a movement than a political party, has served to instill in the majority of Indians a sense of confidence and restored lost self-esteem in a people who suffered foreign domination for over a thousand years. Detractors of this ideology have attempted to paint this philosophy as hate rant and supremacist indoctrination. Far from being that, it is the agonizing cry for justice and dignity of a people long suppressed and long tortured; a cry that embodies the agony of the past and a new-found confidence of the present and which together hopes to ensure a secure future.
With Hindu/Indian Nationalism continuing to play a dominant role in Indian politics, this book is a must for those (businessmen, academics, and others alike) who wish to interact with India and Indians for it enables them to understand the Hindu/Indian psyche better. Further, this book dispels the unsavory view of Hindu Nationalism that has been propagated in the West by vested groups opposed to it.
I would just add that before Nussbaum prounounces judgement on India, she should point to some country that has experienced what India has gone through with respect to terrorism and separatism, and come out looking more enlightened, democratic and pluralistic than India. Otherwise, her writings are just hectoring and gassing, nothing more.
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