SUNAAD RAGHURAM writes: Someone I met recently, and who had been in China for a long time in a senior corporate capacity, had this to say about the country:
“Language (English) is a huge impediment there. Although attempts are being made to learn the language, they have a long way to go before they can catch up with us. The Indian IT industry will always be light years ahead due to this fact.
“Language apart, the comprehension level of the average Chinese is quite abysmal. You explain to him one thing and invariably he’ll do quite another, even if it has been told in Chinese, forget English! The Indian in comparison is smart when it comes to understanding a technical situation and will put things into action straightaway.”
But, then, why is China far more international in character and so infrastructurally advanced compared to India, I asked.
“That is because they have no democracy,” declared he.
True or false? Too simplistic?
Sunaad,
Are English knowledge and expertise in IT the only ingredients to become an advanced nation ?
Limited dictatorship is the answer…
for development…
Too much of democracy is a severe impediment to development…
you will see SELF DECLARED environmentalists/ buddhi jeevis/ experts and innumerable letterhead vedikes/organisations/ senas/ caste based organisations obstructing development…
obviously sponsored by the opponents of our country…
=being too intelligent, too is an impediment for development!
couldnt agree more wid desi.
Democracy doesnt come cheap. As compared with the economy of today’s china, we have quite a bit of catching up to o but thats the price u have to pay for taking everybody along, or to go atleast anyway near to doing that. well done china in the ‘economic’ sense , but we have our hundreds of ethicities cultues ,languages,contradictions diversity of thought and opinion to take along. We cant stymie these very imp things in order that the people may consume more per capita power(one of the indices of development) .So sorry, we cant take any other route other than what has been the Indian way for centuries.
Gowdre, Can you tell me the defintion of ‘limited’?. the word is an oxymoron. And history is testimony to this. We shouldt allow ourselves to be deluded by such fancy concepts.
First we have to DEFINE Progress. The term conjures up images of flashy cars,huge industrial complexes, 8 lane highways – a.k.a western social/economical imagery. Not sure, if such a thing which is unsustainable should be desired. Or a blind fascination to what ‘others’ call progress is a sign of arid intellectuality.
Koppal Haida does touch upon the reason why “Democracy” is the way for India. A pluralistic society like india has been able to sustain itself as a nation – only for one reason – MULTI Party Democracy.
Sunaad – By asking the question of how well democracy has served India or the need for it – you show yourself to be a borderline nincompoop.
Remember Nandigram incident – do you still think you would want democracy or a rough shodding dictatorship..?
even though india is a self-confessed democratic country, more than 65 crore people are silently bearing the pain,attrocities inflicted on them by indian political system , which is worse than any autocratic state.
look at the way farmers are brutalized,killed by STATE govts to promote SEZ.
THIS IS CLEAR VIOLATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS.
china’s human right record is any day better than ours.
daagutre,
Govt anta iddre state sponsored ‘violence’ (not only physical) annodu idde iratte. I feel that its better to have a democratic tyranny than a dictatorial tyranny at any point.
Im all wid u on SEZs. But the reason y we are vent ourselves against SEZs, however futilely, is we have a democ society.
China’s HR record better than ours! How about Saudi Arabia and Sudan?
nam huLukku aachege kaaNatte anta prajaprabhutvana baidre yenu prayojana?
aa kaLnan makLu thara idre yella gotaaa!
Absolutely right
==Dr Ramesh==China’s HR record better than ours!
BULLSHIT!!!(Daktre- bovine droppings)
=what about atrocities in Tibet??? why the hell Karnataka is harbouring Tibetans in Mundagod and Bailakuppa? because the record of china is better?
=that is because the atrocities never get reported in China!
=there is no free press in China…
=likes of human rights activists, self styled protectors of human rights dont exist in china!
check how many lives were lost for protesting against three gorges dam in china…at least unofficia numbers…
Dr Ramesh
swalpa links nodi = chennaagide HR record of china!
http://www.threegorgesprobe.org/tgp/index.cfm?DSP=content&ContentID=9688
http://www.hrw.org/summaries/s.china952.html
http://hrichina.org/public/contents/article?revision%5fid=17153&item%5fid=14308
Democracy is our only saving grace! Imagine if we had no human rights, free speech, freedom of movement, profession and religion…in addition to acute poverty and disparity!
China still has all the above problems (poverty, disparity etc). How would an Indian farmer feel if he needed a visa to enter Bangalore?
Their infrastructure development has been prone to side effects like wastage, corruption and severe pollution.
India tries to take the whole nation along, slowly. China is definitely an attractive place for middle class capitalists who can trample all over villagers and the environment to maximize our benefits.
Er, I was too harsh in using the word “capitalists” above. Didn’t intend to malign capitalism at all.
Let’s just say that without democracy there won’t be an India to worry about.
raviraj gowdre,
much worse is happening in india, in UP,BIHAR— there is a new booming industry called kidnap. thousands of youngsters are joining this industry. no where in the world u can see this. even state govts are providing sops for the kidnap industry.
coming up is a TRAINING SCHOOL WITH DIPLOMA COURSE FOR KIDNAP.
only thing is CHINA’S HR ISSUE IS HIGHLIGHTED MORE IN THE INTNL.MEDIA, but indian situation is not.
India Does not have democracy period, but it does cooked up something similar to democracy. Make this caste, religion figure head somewhere sometime ….. this way it tries to please somegroup sometime.
We all know who or which group really holds power no matter who the PM OR PRESIDENT IS …….DON’T WE?
So what were we talking about democracy or lack of democracy leads to progress… right?
We have the brightest mind working in DRDO Research, am told all from cream of the top upper Cas***, sweating day and night for the last 30 years in Light Combat Aircraft, which apperantly swedien, also a democratic country, produced in no time.
Sunaad your turn.
How convenient theories get developed, amazing……. India did not develop becouse of the democracy. Really Sunaad. Raghuraam! I hope you invested little bit time in this theory……….. rahter than as, your erlier thory!!. Since the British handed power to select group ( we know the composition of the group, don’t we? This group represented less than 5% of the population), India is managed by this, Lets call a spade a spade, Brahmin/Bania group , what were their first target, consolidation of Important post in govt and business. Now we have 50% Brahmin JuDGES, 40+% civil servicest postings, that goes to 60% in top ranking, virtual monopoly in defence research, not to mention no one can apply muslim, sikh, christian any group in Intelligence.
IN BUSINESS, this group hit everyone through License/permit raj. you know how the system worked or working still. No one, yes no one can secure any resources untill the political class willed, which of cource leads to same group 5% of people having access to all the resources.
Raghuram, is it still democracy that stunt the growth of India OR The Brahmin/Bania class not letting the natural talent of India to Grow for the past 50 years. Last 10 years are little testimany to India’s talent and hunger for growth…..which is still caged by the same group through political/beururatic/Media manupilation.
Zulfi Bhai,
I understand your contempt for the people whom are your against – however, don’t blame these communities for the ilk of our nation. No wonder Bramhim / Bania officials are tied up by the political class and are made to toe their line. Just look at the class ruling us – the likes of Sonia Gandhi, Laloo, Paswan, Ramdoss etc. None of them belong to the class of people whom you are directing your contempt at.
No wonder, nowadays those very people whom you are against want to make way for people like you to make India shine better.
I guess, you will have to wish those very people Best Of Luck to improve some other country!!
Follow the discussion of Land allotment for IT Cos, http://churumuri.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/should-karnataka-review-it-land-allotment/#comment-44285, where sugata has given fine example. Take it further which it company is allotted/given LaND, in Bangalore we have two large companies Infosys and Wipro, one is alloted land of 500 acres in bangalore and 100+ in Mangalore and the other has to work from rented property, paying market rate.
Your quiz Raghuram:
who is more likely for Govt giveaway?
What role does democracy plays here?
We are an eternal ‘developing’ nation as our thoughts can’t go beyond religion and caste.
People are taken for a ride on the lines of caste and some calling themselves champions for protecting certain classes. The backward classes are now being provided an advantage that no citizen had enjoyed even during the times of Krishnadevaraya or the Mughals. But how well is this being made use of? Muslims are being used as vote banks, and they are never realising this. They prefer madrasas to schools, and cry hoarse as they feel left out of mainstream. Democracy is not about the Govt alone, more important are the people who participate.
Zulfi – you should read some economics. If not for License Raj, uncontrolled Capitalism would have killed India, and maybe today, as we speak, we would be importing even jaggery from Cuba or Vietnam.
“Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people, by the people, for the people.”
— Oscar Wilde
It fits a tee for Indian democracy
Zulfi Bhai,
Please recollect history and as others said economics. India is in a bad(a?) shape because the very people whom you referred as brahmins/banias allowed yavanas(moslem nomadic invaders) to survive and prosper in this country. It is the affection of Mahatma(a bania) and Pandith ji (a brahmin) for these minority made India a weak state than the sudras, who actually fought the moslems and kept them at bay. Even to this day more brahmins and banias are converted than sudras to islam (do not you see kashmir?).
Further, IT is not the representative of the economy of the country or Intelligence of its population. Do not underestimate the chinese because of their dictatorship. They were the first to crystalize insulin from urine, use – paper, gun powder, acuupuncture…
Look at their hardware capabilities – from computer chips to nuclear arsenals. Call the spade a spade. They have superior centralized administration not because they are dictatorial, but because they have accountability. In a democracy there is no accountability on the part of pundas/pudaris who get elected into the government. Just put responsibility and accountability on the elected representatives, we can see we leap over Chinese by an order of magnitude. Just make sure that every elected representative is responsible for the following in their constituency and see the difference.
1. A minimum of 10% improvement in no. of people getting university education (not private univ.) and getting jobs.
2.A minimum of 10% decrease in female infanticide
3. A minimum of 10% increase in wages (taken at micro level of individual).
4.A minimum of 10% increase in cross religious functions organized by society.
Just with IT we can not comment on superiority. It is on collective responsibility we can criticize on.
“the comprehension level of the average Chinese is quite abysmal. You explain to him one thing and invariably he’ll do quite another, even if it has been told in Chinese”
That’s the stupidest thing I have heard in a long time. How untrue. This ‘senior corporate’ dude sure must be a supporter of Ms. Gandhi!!! Yikes….
NS Raoji,
Why can we not hold the group responsible? They were the one who inhereted India, as if it were their jagir from british. You should know how well the Brahmin/Bania were entrenched with political space in all India… until broken by the laloo, mulayam and mayawatis recently.
The point here is why India could not develop to its potential … its not coz it lacks skill and resource crunh OR mother of invention being circulated now DEMOCRACY … it is due to artificial border erected by the group that prevented the real India from emerging.
As long as this group held India ransom …. Inda will not develop to its potential. India shoul be allowed to govern by its people without manipulation through judicial activism……….which curiosly side in one direction only and selective disinformation by the media…which again is previlaged few manages the tamasha.
@ Zulfi: it is due to artificial border erected by the group that prevented the real India from emerging. LOL!
What do u mean by this? open borders to pak and bangla..Man, then wouldnt have we been responsible for all the violence in the world? please dont show your hideous shitheaded by making cheap comments. Accept we have a lot of shortcomings in us but imagine how cataclysmic it wud have been for us to have pak and bangla. Our nemesis has been not having a strong border with bangla. Donno when we will wake up to this and start doing, despite bangla’s objection
Dear o dear koppila,
Read the thread before opening your mouth. You guys don’t look beyound your prejeduced mind…. let’s have another go kappi after reading my previous posting………let us see does it make any different to your eyes.
Zulfi sahebre,
Unfortunately, the whole world seems to be prejudiced ,aint it?.As I have my kaapi nirvana, let me see whether u have come out of the hangover of the quarters u had b writiing all the balderdash u did about shettru and byaambru. I have read the thread many times over and each time it seems to contain more drivel than the previous read
Kooppa beda kandre, coz the fact is I suspected you see what your mind already decided, not what I written.
Fair enough, as I don’t expected anything better also in these times. Even our election forecasters and media also see what they want to see only. Remeber how systematically they predict BJP winning everytime? Coz their desire to see BJP win suprsede all the data available in hand.
So cheerup you are not in minority………!!!
Zulfi ,I agree on some of your views . Everything from religion to Politics is blatantly Misrepresented and Misused .
Yesterday I was seeying the special report on the Influence of Islam in UK . People on streets calling for Shariah law in UK and Police witch hunting .
Yellaru maaduvudhu Hottegaagi geNu battegaagi
“I don’t expected anything better also in these times” Man what evil sense of idiotic self righteousness!! Good going Mr Zulfi. Keep writing ur minority report
Zulfi,
Why do not preach these things in islamic religious schools? Why not advice pakis and bangu muslims? Why not discuss how we have to system like Saudis?
Do not forget Maya didi came to ‘absolute power’ because of your so called brahmins/banias? what full islam country like our neighbours have done to their country men? poverty, freedom of voilence against India, hatred for other religions.
It seems some brahmin/bania has cut your tail??
Kapi,
Good to know I was preaching, I was under the impression am discussing “Why India is lacking in development” Is it not the subject.
Yah, about “preaching” the development model to our goody old neighbours…. this blog is not restricted to Indian readers alone I belive :) so let them read ” If I do made some right “reaching”.
So kapitharle, as you are taking too much offense I assume you are one of the previlaged class ;) oh don’t cut my tail other wise you know I will cut you bala rub chuna on that?
I have spoken to many people of different nationalities , they are less intelligent than indians but wearing good quality of clothes, their face tells that they have enough money to buy choclates, food,clothes and home etc.
Who needs intelligency , poor nation ,
Does a rich nation like kuwait is an intelligent nation “NO”, but look at Kuwaiti citizens—————– how Groomed they are , good quality clothes , Shiny faces , their Inside story that they have money and employs intelligent INDians in their countries at 1/4th price of kuwaiti maid or Managerial NAture of JObs
What intelligency,A need of poor people to fulfill their hunger
Chinese govt. is right and i fully agree that Democracy is biggest hurdle in the development of india
See shanghai and beijing cities , Our New delhi(Capital city of INDIA) and Mumbai(FINANCIAL CAPITAL) is nothing more than a slum.
Any citizen whether INtelligent or Average Needs Good quality food , Shelter and Clothes to live
Indian is Country of INtelligent But Poor, improvished, Un-groomed People
Intelligency is need of Poor People to so that they can have food, Look a kuwaiti citizen , more happy and Less intelligent than indians
intelligence doesnt matters,iz dedication that matters for progress.
in reality its not DEMOCRACY that hinders ur growth,but our courts of law which lessens the faith on the country among the people.
***
democracy has redefined as of the people,’buy’ the people and for the people by ur politicians .
this ll continu until people r united