NIKHIL MORO in Mount Pleasant, Michigan, forwards two telling links on the “Super Hercules” cargo planes.
The first link is from Deccan Herald dated 7 February 2008. Headlined “India, US ink billion-dollar aircraft purchase deal”, it’s a Press Trust of India despatch from Washington. It reads:
WASHINGTON: India and the US have signed a billion-dollar (about Rs 3,900 crore) deal for purchase of six Super Hercules military transport planes from Lockheed Martin which Pentagon feels breaks the “psychological barrier” in bilateral defence cooperation.
The deal was signed recently following the Indian cabinet committee on security clearing last month the purchase of the six C-130J Super Hercules aircraft. The planes are expected to be delivered starting 2011.
“It is a very good plane and is very widely used. It is a workhorse and it has been used for 40 years but the ‘J’ type (C-130J) is amazing…it can really take off on a much shorter runway and India basically lacks this kind of an airplane,” James Clad, deputy assistant secretary of defence, said.
The second link is from Air-Attack dated 17 January 2008. Headlined “Lockheed receives $1.4 billion contract for 17 C-130Js for Canada,” the report cites a Lockheed Martin press release as source. It reads:
Marietta, GEORGIA: Lockheed Martin has signed a contract with the Government of Canada valued at $1.4 billion for the purchase of 17 C-130J Super Hercules airlifters and related equipment and services….
The Canadian Forces’ new Super Hercules will be the longer fuselage or “stretched” variant of the C-130J, similar to those being delivered to the U.S. Air Force. Deliveries to Canada will begin in 2010. Canada joins the growing number of nations with C-130J fleets. Allied operators include the United States, Australia, Demark, Italy, Norway and the United Kingdom.
The new C-130J generates much greater operational efficiency than the older C-130s, such as Canada’s E and H model, by flying farther, faster, with more payload and higher reliability. Additionally, the C-130J only requires three crew members for most missions so fewer flight crew members are exposed to potential threats in-theatre. C-130Js are being used daily for troop and equipment re-supply via ground delivery and airdrop, for air-to-air refueling, ground refueling and humanitarian relief.
If a billion dollars can fetch only six C-130Js for India, how can $1.4 billion fetch 17 C-130Js (and related equipment and services) for Canada? Is there more than meets the eye here? Is there something extra Lockheed Martin is throwing in for its new Indian friends now that it has opened an office in New Delhi?
In December 2007, the Canadian American Strategic Review listed the per-unit price of the C-130J at $65 million apiece. A report in December 2006 on India-Defence said the price per C-130J may “top” $70 million. Six planes=$420 million. Therefore, 17 planes=$1,190 million. How come six planes=$1 billion, 17 planes=$1.4 billion?
Yamma, ee article nodudhre “whats wrong with the Indian media” antha gothaagutthe. The Indian C130Js have been purchased for electronic surveillance and counter terrorism operations, which effectively means a lot of hardware that India has got for these planes is custom-fit to Indian requirements. A couple of news paper reports on this deal throws up all the little intricacies that India is paying for. Hardware costs money, unfortunately.
Only a nut job can come up with such stupid analogy of 420million$ for 6 planes. I would request that churumuri stick to reporting on inflated egos and “misconstrued chauvunism” (supposedly) than reporting on defense. Even seasoned journalists get the details wrong. Nothing better can be expected from churumuri.
Wonderful analysis!!
Why doesn’t someone who is near the Raksha Mantri’s office in Delhi file an RTI to get this information? Somehow, we seem to be paying more than other countries!
I still hope, our Defence Minister Mr. AK Anthony is one of the cleanest hands in our Country’s cabinet.
I suppose there could be a transfer of tech involved… not unusual, but I would wait to see full details.
At least this a little better than the floating pile of overpriced junk that Russia is stiffing us for (Admiral Gorshkov).
Lockheed Martin is also probably adding the cost of “lobbying” into the price. The deal also involves “offsets” which means there will be both a transfer of some technologies and a huge pile of parts to start building airplanes here.
Having said that, the airplane is a 50 year old design and there is talk in the US of finding a replacement. The good thing is that like the MiGs, this airplane is in service with a large number of countries so LM will remain in business to service them.
India Defence had reported in Dec 2006 that India may buy these.
http://www.india-defence.com/reports-2750
I do not think technology transfer deals happen so fast.
Further, India seems to have bought no aircraft so far from Washington and one does not start with tech transfer.
Surely there is something fishy here.
Negative. There is no technology transfer. As per what was notified to Congress the sale list as given below
6 Lockheed Martin C-130J United States Air Force (USAF) baseline aircraft including USAF baseline equipment
4 Rolls Royce AE 2100D3 spare engines
8 AAR-47 Missile Warning Systems (two of them spares)
8 AN/ALR-56M Advanced Radar Warning Receivers (two of them spares)
8 AN/ALE-47 Counter-Measures Dispensing Systems (two of them spares)
8 AAQ-22 Star SAFIRE III Special Operations Suites (two of them spares)
8 ALQ-211 Suite of Integrated Radio Frequency Countermeasures (two of them spares)
2 spare AN/ARC-210 Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio Systems (SINCGARS)
8 spare Secure Voice Very High Frequency/Ultra High Frequency Radios
4 spare Secure Voice High Frequency Radios
3 spare AN/AAR-222 SINCGARS and Key Gen (KV-10) Systems
1 KIV-119 Non-standard Communication/COMSEC equipment
2 ARC-210 Non-standard Communication/COMSEC equipment
Also included are spare and repair parts, configuration updates, communications security equipment and radios, integration studies, support equipment, publications and technical documentation, technical services, personnel training and training equipment, foreign liaison office support, Field Service Representatives� services, U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics personnel services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $1,059 million.
DSCA has press release here covering India sale
http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2007/India_07-33.pdf
DSCA also has press release here covering Sale to Norway
http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2007/Norway_07-16.pdf
Both the press releases have equipment list of what is being sold.
It is clear that India got a raw deal.
This is the typical way Indian Defence Deal is done. Even though A K Antony is a very honest and un-corruptible politician, there are extraneous entities which influence this kind of raw deals that are struck.
Same is the case with Admiral Groshkov where the price is suddenly being jacked up from the agreed retrofitting charges.
The solution is to some indigenous research and manufacturing so that we can rely less on these imported armaments.
Mayura,
Indigenous research sucks. I have closely watched Lakshya and what junk has gone into it.
Excellent analysis.
Why cant the people making a decision come up with a simple breakup or what was paid for what? No need to get into technical details, but just a summary so that some transparency is bought into the process. Or does this already exist for public scrutiny?
If making money is one of the motives behind these deals – then never mind, it is a necessary evil we have to live with.
@ SumneNeeve
I have already given link. You can see yourself what US Congress was told on the deal. It looks like the list is very similar to what Norway was given except for some RF transmitter and receivers and some fighter pilot aviation suits. Clearly India got a raw deal
Oohh… Looks like “Gas” guzzlers. Is US giving a year of fuel supply for free?
Narayana,
You are right, and to add to that, little gets done anyway. I had worked on the Kaveri Engine of the Light Combat Aircraft(LCA) in GTRI-ADA ; except for project trainees and BE project teams, no one ever worked. It was a big scam.
Narayana,
There are 2 issues in this very alleged bribery scandal.
1. No civilian has complete information on what exactly we are getting for a billion $s. Do you have all the intricate details of this venture? No. Have you also considered the fact that, C130 represents a new platform for India. We have been used to French, British and Russian Air Military hardware. Never before we have bought American. One of the biggest expenditure that needs to be accounted for is training Indian Air Force personnel to operate and maintain a very complex aircraft like the C130. From Pilots to Signal Operators to On-board engineers (who man the internal electronic surveillance of the aircraft) need to be trained in the US. Subsequently, supply chain logistics have to be set up. Where do you think the money for this is coming from? It is obviously part of the deal.
Norway is a NATO member. They are very well experienced with American hardware. They can choose to buy just the plane and nothing else. India cannot afford to do that. Besides, not only does, this contract call for India specific electronics and optimizations, it also demands that studies be made to ensure that C130 will be operational in India. India has plans to land this aircraft on Carriers. Perhaps a lot of money is spent on providing such capabilities as well.
2. AFAIK, CAG audits military purchases. They will have the complete information to decide if we over purchased (please read their reports on Sukhoi purchase and the Admiral Gorshkov purchases). When they shout, I will believe that we overspent.
3. I would like to know, if anyone has made a claim of this money used to bribe? AFAIK, no complaint has been recorded till now. So why are we making all the wrong noises over a non-existent but perceived failure?
Narayana
The presslink that you have put up there only lists the equipment being sold. No information is available on the costs for each of the equipment listed. How sure are you that all the 12 items listed for India dont add up to 1059 million? I dont know, I am merely thinking that there is more than meets the eye.
Why dont you tell me how much each equipment costs? I would love to listen
The aircraft are intended for India’s special forces. Jim Grant, Lockheed’s vice-president for air mobility and special operations, says the aircraft configuration for India “is different from any of the C-130Js being manufactured for international customers”.
There was a discussion in another thread here approx. a year back regarding privatization of defence equipment manufacture. Not surprisingly, there were some knee-jerk reactions and protests to this suggestion. My point is this:
The only Superpower in the world today has reached this state (militarily) because of firms like Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, CRAY, etc. etc. PSUs and Government-run industries in India are well-known for inefficiencies, decay, lack of incentive, dinosaur-like culture and a million other such negative attributes.
There were the usual arguments of ‘it will undermine national security’ when privatization was proposed. Bullshit with an uppercase ‘B’. We buy all our stuff from foreigners today, so aren’t we already compromised as hell? Why not try to innovate, build cutting edge technology, have come competition, and also, have the necessary checks and balances to go with it to avoid misuse?
We will never be a superpower until and unless we take this step to free ourselves from relying on foreign suppliers for every piece of high-tech equipment we need.