BHAMY V. SHENOY writes: As Raj Thackeray follows his uncle Bal Thackeray‘s footsteps in trying to tap revanchist linguistic and regional sentiments, we need to take a look at how such verbal and physical chauvinism will affect the political landscape not just in the short and medium term, but even in the long term.
Most of us get too caught up in the here and now, but the potential long-term impact of our actions, big, small and medium, could be devastating if not handled with due care.
How many, for instance, will attribute 9/11 which has now already resulted in two wars (Afghanistan and Iraq) to Mohammed Ali Jinnah‘s two-nation theory? In the short term, the creation of Pakistan resulted in the death of millions during Partition. In the medium term, it led to the Kashmir problem, with both countries spending obscene billions on defence rather than on development. And in the long term, a theocratic Pakistan gave birth to fundamentalist Taliban, which in turn nurtured Osama bin Laden‘s Al-qaeda, which was behind 9/11.
Raj Thackeray’s poisonous brew may not seem as potent, at least not at this juncture, but we would be acutely myopic if we do not envisage what it could unleash in the long run.
When our States were reorganised on the basis of language, it was hailed by many, but C. Rajagopalachari dismissed it as a “tribal idea”. Today, when India stands divided—by regional political parties, by language chauvinists who are unable to put their perceived interests over that of the nation—guess who seems prophetic?
East Pakistan declared independence from the West, despite what Jinnah thought was the unifying religion. Telangana wants to separate from Andhra Pradesh, despite what Potti Sriramulu thought was the unifying language. So, who is to guess where the calisthenics of Raj Thackeray and his blood-brothers and sisters across the nation, will lead to?
Emotive appeals on the basis of religion, region and language obviously helps “leaders” to carve out the mass base in the short-term that is required for their long-term personal, electoral and financial sustenance. But where does it leave their long-suffering subjects, on whose behalf they claim to act, when they are least interested in tackling the “core” issues?
By that yardstick, Karnataka Rakshana Vedike (KRV) is certainly less organized, politically, compared to Shiv Sena or its branch office, the Maharashtra Navnirman Sena, and possibly less militant as of now. Its vigilante actions even seem to draw the silent cheers of the Kannada cognoscenti, but what is its commitment to the all-important issue of education, for all its vacuous claims of batting for the battered Kannadiga?
Here’s a good example to show that KRV, like the MNS and Shiv Sena, seems only too happy to pick easy targets, instead of tackling the root cause of our social and economic ills.
Exactly a year ago, on 21 February 2007, Pratham Mysore, an NGO involved in educating the poor children in the slums of Mysore for the last five years, held a function to release a booklet titled “State of Education in Mysore”. The chief guests invited to do the honour of releasing the magazine were four slum children, who were beneficiaries of Pratham’s efforts.While addressing the gathering, Ashvini Ranjan, Pratham Mysore’s managing trustee, stated that just like we were participating in large numbers to agitate against the Cauvery tribunal’s verdict, we should launch an agitation for the improvement in the education system which is depriving the slum children today.
He also stated that when he had a sister living in Tamil Nadu, how he could deny water to her? We need an equitable policy, was the message, but the bottomline was that we also need to focus on the big picture.
To our surprise, the next morning Andolana, a local Kannada daily, published a news item with the headline, “Instead of agitating for Cauvery, agitate for education is the opinion of Pratham trustee.” Most other papers either did not discuss his comment on Cauvery water or did so accurately.
But the inaccurate newspaper report was enough for members of the KRV to march to and attack the offices of Pratham, ransacking it, uprooting the sign boards, breaking the windows, and eventually locking it up. When an FIR was filed by Pratham, these agitators were taken into police custody.
According to Andolana, the agitators were warning that they would not tolerate anyone who spoke against the Cauvery agitation. Every one who lives and breathes in Karnataka should take part in the agitation or at least remain silent. If any one speaks against the Karnataka agitators, they would not tolerate and fight them relentlessly.
The stone throwing and locking-up of our offices, as reported in the newspapers, caused not just physical damage resulting in some financial losses, it also created incalculable psychological trauma to many of our girl-teachers who are mostly from the slums. Some of them were in the office that day. It might have also created a wrong opinion in the minds of the public.
KRV did not stop their efforts to “protect” Kannadigas with vandalising the Pratham office. They later peacefully agitated to put behind bars Ashvini Ranjan for unnecessarily causing public disturbance by raising the Cauvery issue.
The question that arises is: Who gives this right to KRV to make such open threats? Who gives the right to Raj Thackeray to threaten North Indians to up and leave or “we will have to lift our hand”?
The question also arises: How do we fight for Kannada and Kannadigas? And for Marathi and Maharashtrians?
Do we create the institutional framework, with all the checks and balances, to educate them and empower them to seek better employment and become responsible citizens? Or do we throw them to the supra-constitutional wolves who choose targets at whim, vandalise public property, and verbally and physically threaten those who hold a view contrary to theirs?
Raj Thackeray’s MNS, like KRV, may claim that they have every democratic right to express their views. But so too do others. They too have a democratic right to express their view. But neither MNS nor KRV have the democratic right to use brute force to shut out those who may disagree with their views; or to achieve their own, chosen ends.Democracy is built on debate, discourse and discussion. By eliminating it, we may get the illusion of having accomplished our objectives in the short to medium term, but in the long term we could be playing with fire, the scale of which we can only guess at this moment—and from this distance.
Photograph: Yesteryear cinema star Waheeda Rehman lends a hand at a Pratham initiative to take education to the slums.
Also read: Yella not OK, guru. Nanna makkalu is not learning
Don’t gift them fish. Teach them how to fish
is that W Rehman ????wow this is the first time i saw her without makeup
Good piece. Exposes the duplicity of KRV and brings forth the dangers of KRV, MNS and such.
The writer of the article DR.bhamy shenoy is an trustee in prarthana NGO.. Therefore i think they are using this article for the publicity of their NGO… two days back forest officials raided valley school on kanakapura road and unearthed huge encroachments of forest land and stocks of sandalwoods stored illegally and in two paper a photo has become in which students led by teachers are protesting against forest officials… what a shame for school which should have inculcated values of honesty in children…. in case of this NGO also it is a fight between two sets of people(NGO and KRV) and no principle or ideals are associated…. they are just here to make money by using land and resources…..
YAWN.. This so-called incident took-place well over year ago.. Millions of Cusecs of Kaveri water has already snatched by Konganadu in the meanwhile…And why dont u get straight to the point and say what KRV did..why are u trying to cover it in the guise of a recent story taking palce in Maharastra..
As a Kannadiga who spent a significant part of my formative years outside the state, I always used to wonder about the apparent absence of Kannadigas in various aspects of our civil society. Today, as I look around for prominent Kannadigas in media (TV, radio, print), music, dance, academics, literature, movies, business, corporate life, politics, bureaucracy, etc. I find that the representation is less than satisfying. In fact, it is pathetic. These are the facts today. While one can get worked up, get emotional, or plain lumpen like the KRV and make noises about reasons of history and the like, the fact remains that we are to blame for the state of affairs.
I have come to the following conclusions which I submit for your comments. I know these are hugely provocative to some but I entreat you to think about it and then comment.
a)Role models: Children growing up don’t have (or haven’t been made aware of) Kannada role models to emulate. Conscious efforts to highlight genuine top notch role models just hasn’t been done. There’s no sense of history and culture of the peoples of Karnataka among the polity. Children born of an identity-less heritage are doomed to a sense of inferiority. Why isn’t a Sir Visweshwaraiah, a Shivram Karanth, and a Narayana Murthy a role model for children as opposed to a “Dr” Raj Kumar and a Deve Gowda?
b) Education: Karnataka has never been known for the quality of its schools & education system. This has to change. Quality english education in general and literacy are critical elements. Karnataka’s performance on school statistics is the worst among the Southern states and among the worst in the country. Look at the statistics of the number of Kannadigas in the IITs, IIM, IFS, IAS, IPS, AIIMS, and the like and the numbers are shameful especially when compared with the numbers of representatives from other states. Look at the numbers of Kannadiga students at the top schools abroad for a similar view. Students from these institutions are the folks who go on to capture leadership roles in business, bureaucracy, and government in later years. Without literate people, one cannot have any meaningful discussion or debate on any issue. Rabble rousing of the worst kind becomes the preferred mode of discourse.
c) Industry/Entrepreneurship: There are hardly any Kannadiga business men barring a Narayana Murthy or a Capt Gopinath or a Jerry Rao. Almost all the wealth generating business activity in Bangalore (& Karnataka) is run by non-Kannadigas. As a result, wealth creation occurs by people who really don’t have a stake in the state barring purely economic ones. There’s no sense or sensibility or sensitivity to the ethos. The average Kannadiga appears content being a low or mid level government employee – contrast that with the numbers of people from other states running enterprise & government in Karnataka.
d) Political clout: As a result of there being no wealth, political parties are dependent on “external” agents for funding of their election campaigns. These external agents again have no real stake in the state or its ethos apart from lacking the requisite sophistication. An example is the nexus that controls the mining business in Northern Karnataka with the government virtually abdicating governance there. The number of non-natives as Karnataka MPs and MLAs is perhaps the highest for any state! There are no Kannadiga MPs or bureaucrats of any stature in any ruling coalition at the central government to drive the Karnataka agenda.
e) Development: Barring Bangalore, there’s no other town in Karnataka that’s developed. Contrast this with Coimbatore, Erode, Trichy, etc in Tamil Nadu. Lack of infrastructure leads to lack of development. This ensures that large parts of the state remain backward with no investment in wealth creation. Towns in Karnataka therefore remain sleepy compared with the hustle and bustle of the towns elsewhere.
f) Parenting: Kannadigas appear to be generally the “swalpa adjust maadi” types. We have not created aspiration among our people. In organizational psychology terms, we are brought up in a milieu that’s high on content, low on motivation. Our task & achievement orientation is low. Compare the way the middle class Tamilian kid is driven to excel in studies, music, and the like. I see the way for example, Tamilian or Bengali middle class kids are driven to excel in multiple areas (education, music, political consciousness, general awareness etc) & cannot but notice the difference with Kannadiga parents in general.
Yes, things have their implications. But Mr. Shenoy’s argument can be continued ad infinitum. Why stop at Jinnah’s two-nation theory? Because it’s a sweet spot where Mr. Shenoy is at peace with his paradigm? One could argue that the British conquest of India is the reason for the 9/11 attacks. So much for the heavy buildup to his KRV-bashing.
Going by the same line of thought, I will claim that anything wrong happening in the world following KRV’s actions is actually due to the stupid system of governance which exists in India – which discriminates against Kannada and Kannadigas in Karnataka itself.
As to the Pratham incident – the KRV has displayed behaviour similar to that of Mr. Shenoy himself in stopping short of continuing to ask questions ad absurdum. While Mr. Shenoy stopped at Mr. Jinnah, KRV stopped at a newspaper report. While Mr. Shenoy did not question why Jinnah did what he did, KRV did not question why the paper wrote what it wrote.
I have thus proven Mr. Shenoy’s line of argument logically flawed.
As to who has given the license to KRV to give open threats, the answer is the law. KRV has never broken any law. It has never failed to bow before the law, albeit after what the law calls as unlawful. The law has to be broken for any change in flawed systems which have given birth to those laws, albeit the particular laws being broken may be acceptable to the law-breaker.
All those whose complaint is that KRV breaks laws need to understand that even Gandhi broke laws and pleaded guilty. KRV also breaks laws and pleads guilty. In this whole process of breaking laws and pleading guilty, those whose intention it is to serve the Land make progress in that service.
Try to undrestand.
>>He also stated that when he had a sister living in Tamil Nadu, how he could deny water to her?
—insensitive and mischievous. Is Ashwini Ranjan implying that it is Karnataka that is denying Konganadu the water?! The question here.. dammit.. is not about me denying my sister water.. but my “sister” stealing my water and leaving me with just the chambu in the first place.
>>We need an equitable policy, was the message, but the bottomline was that we also need to focus on the big picture.
— Oh he follows up his insult with some vedanta.. eh?
>>To our surprise, the next morning Andolana, a local Kannada daily, published a news item with the headline, “Instead of agitating for Cauvery, agitate for education is the opinion of Pratham trustee.”
— And why should I take your word for it? Given the specious and outright dishonest case you make to bash KRV and the insult your pratham secretary or whoever heaps on Karnataka/Kannadigas, with what musudi do you ask me to believe your words?
Good one, Mr. Ramesh Gowda. I think there is hyperactivity in terms of KRV-bashing. These are the feelings of people who have neither emotinal attachment to kannada and karnataka nor any stakes in kannada/karnataka. It is important from the perspectives of kannadigas who keep losing out unfairly to these ivory tower people. People who dont care for their state or their brethren cant claim themselves to be nationalists.
Sanjaya – I largely agree with you on points (b) to (f). On your point (a), it is not as much as there being a “lack of rolemodels” than there being awareness. And the blame for this lack of awareness has to be squarely laid at the feet of English media. How many times have the names of Sir MV, NRN, karanth, kuvempu been mentioned in the media along with their kannada/karnataka connections. At the same time, how many times has a tagore, saurav, etc been mentined along with bengal/bengali connection? Get the point. Ofcourse, (b) to (f) means that there are not as many role models as there should be. And mind you, it is the same English media that has glorified all the negative aspects of Rajkumar unnecessarily while showering encomiums on stupid Khans for worthless reasons. And Devegowda – no, people talk about him, but role model -no. Please. But, as I said, I agree with points (b) to (f) especially about industry/entrepreneurship.
Bhamy – i think your entire concept seems misplaced. Now, I know people have the right to talk, doesn’t mean one has to blabber off. Now, let me admit, I dont know much about pratham, ashvini ranjan, etc. But, purely on the basis of what you have written, I think comments made by this ranjan chap was stupid, illogical, and highly deserving to be condemned, to say the least.
The cauvery issue is based on which set of farmers and people based on where they live, how the river flows, what the needs are. NOT on whether my sister lives here or there. I mean how more stupid can one get. Tomorrow, a government officer will say, my daughter works for company A, so all government contracts should go to her. An army officer will say my brother works for an American defence company, I will pass the secrets of Indian army to this brother. BOSS, cauvery issue is not a matter of one’s sister or brother. That should have been apparent to you and your Pratham.
So, delinking your meaningless post, and assuming you and or pratham are doing good work on the education side, pls allow me to wish you good luck. ANd pls post a website of pratham, etc on this comments link and if any of the readers can be of any help.
And pls pass on my comments to this ranjan chap. Let him not live in a fools’ paradise.
Bhamy – secondly, i think just because Telangana wants a separate state doesn’t mean telugu is not a unifying factor. It will continue to be a unifying factor in some cases but not inall the cases. the point is that of how big the states should be and what is the appropiate devolution of powers to what size of regions. Mind you, even there is a demand for Vidarbha in Maharashtra. And if there are merits to that case (I am not fully aware of circumstances), Raj Tachkeray should (and hopefully would if there are enoufh merits) support that demand. And that would not make him a lesser champion of Marathi cause. You are completely mixing up issues. The issue in any struggle is that of a set of people oppressed v/s the oppressor. In this case, the oppressed is that of a specified set of people with similar language. In another case, it could be dalits speaking different languages or brahmins speaking different languages. So, it is fair to assume that even if the states would not have been formed on the basis of languages, there still would have been protests, because of unbridled migration from one part of non-performing India to another part of performing India.
Do you always turn personal issues into crusades?
Your comment reminds of kannada saying ‘Nand el idlee nandgopala’..
Good observations. As a non-kannadiga living in Bangalore, I have also noticed most of what you say, especially your points of Industry/Politial Clout/Development.
It is a pity that there is no strong Kannada media. Only a Prajavani/DH is locally owned (and even DH is comatose). In TV also, barring a Kasturi channel, all others “outsider” owned (correct me if I am wrong here). Compare it with other South Indian states where the strong media houses have diversified to have a national presence (Sun, Eenadu).
Even food-wise, where are the Karnataka brands?? All I see are “Mast Kalandar’s” and “Adayar Ananda Bhavans” and host of Mallu messes. And to top it, MTR has been sold to a Norwegian company.
Are Kannadiga’s poor marketers?
For all he KRV bashers on churumuri, please read the KRV views on the railway agitation & the reasons behind this agitation.
@ shreeram Says:
The writer of the article DR.bhamy shenoy is an trustee in prarthana NGO.. Therefore i think they are using this article for the publicity of their NGO…
You are right. The same Bhamy has similar woes against AOL where he wondered how a spiritual guru is more successfull in money making than the NGOs. I see some shades of ‘yellow’ in his writings.
Dear Yella OK and Goldstar,
Yella OK, “lack of awareness” about role-models is a function of ignorance and lack of caring. Ignorance is on account of inadequate education about the history and achievements of Kannadiga stalwarts. Lack of caring stems from having a disregard for aesthetic matters such as culture. With a world heritage site like Hampi in our state, it is a matter of immense shame that our leaders have allowed the place to go to seed. Look at the quality of institutional leadership in Karnataka today – no surprise!
Lack of awareness is caused by inadequate ability and means to propagate ideas and information. For this to happen, one needs high quality media access. Since there aren’t many Kanndigas in the media either as employees and/or as owners, it is not suprising that Kannadiga connections aren’t highlighted wherever they arise. This has been highlighted by Goldstar. For example, CK Prahalad, rated the # 1 management guru today is a Kanndiga but from Tamil Nadu. Has the state / local media ever used the fact to get the benefit of his insights?
The point regarding even a simple thing like Kannada/Karnataka cuisine is well made by Goldstar. How many marquee restaurants can one name in Bengaluru where authentic Kannada oota can be had?
Sanjaya and Goldstar, Kannada cuisine is one of the best marketed in India. The Sambar you get to eat in a Udupi retaurant anywhere in the country is Kannadiga and so is the kaayi chutney served with it. Idli, Except Pongal and Puliyogare, everything served in these restaurants is Kannadiga. What if it has a slightly Mangalorean twist to it?
If there aren’t many newspapers it’s because Kannadigas have traditionally not believed in paying and buying newspapers. During bus journeys if one person buys a news paper everyone gets to read it.
In an ideal world we can do without the KRVs and MNSs or with brute force. But you are not dealing with ideal folks here, but a species that is most backward and uncouth
At present, Karnataka is somewhere between Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu. It isn’t as bad as Maharashtra; but at the same time it is not TN either. All that you say about KA is applicable to MH-except the media part. The Marathi media is still strong and is locally owned-barring Maharashtra Times. That much that you say about KA rings true about MH and the reverse is equally applicable means both states have something to think about. KA does NOT equal MH, but the sentiments on both sides of the border sound similair, which means the greviances are also similair. Except the KRV is MUCH MUCH more active than the MNS. The KRV is really really active and handled the SWR railway recruitment episode in a way that one couldn’t help admiring. KRV also has a pan-state presence as well as 12 lakh+ activists; MNS has neither the man power nor the pan-state presence. Hence, KRV is at present in a much better shape and is stronger. Interesting to see if the MNS gets there too.
The good thing is: in Karnataka, the government is genuinely interested in promoting Kannada. The Kannada Development Authority too is very active and is actively pushing for Kannada in all areas. The KDA ensures that it is well known by the lay man because it actively pushes the government to promote Kannada in various areas of life. The government is also insitent on Kannada and supports the promotion of Kannada whenever possible. Here, neither the government nor the Marathi Development Authority do that.
My personal feeling is simple: if KA/MH had joined TN in the anti-Hindi protests then things would have worked out even better. Outsiders would have been forced to learn Marathi/Kannada here would have been no large scale demographic change. The harder it is to survive in a place if you don’t know the local language, the less demographic change that place sees. The more hostile a place is to those who don’t know the local language, the more reluctant migrants are to come to it, or settle down in it. That is why Kolkata and Chennai remain what they are. And that is why Mumbai and Bangalore do not. The more difficult it is to live in a place if you don’t know the local language, the more reluctant migrants are to come to it.
However bitter the above sounds, it is the truth.
Perhaps, MH and KA can avoid these same mistakes in their smaller towns and “seal off” the Bangalore/Mumbai disease within a certain limit.
Or like jaggesh said as a waiter, “Yaarig idlee, yaarig idlee”…
There is also the perception that in that the local carpenters, plumbers etc are neither professional nor reliable. A lot of people in Bangalore pay for these workmen to travel from the North to work here
>>It is a pity that there is no strong Kannada media. Only a Prajavani/DH is locally owned (and even DH is comatose). In TV also, barring a Kasturi channel, all others “outsider” owned (correct me if I am wrong here). Compare it with other South Indian states where the strong media houses have diversified to have a national presence (Sun, Eenadu).
Even food-wise, where are the Karnataka brands?? All I see are “Mast Kalandar’s” and “Adayar Ananda Bhavans” and host of Mallu messes. And to top it, MTR has been sold to a Norwegian company.>>
Goldstart, you are quite true about the media. Kannadiga’s need their own political party and news/tv media, in that order a la TN. Then and only then can the voice of kannadigas be heard at the national level. The TV media is atleast getting there with our own Mannina Mommaga HDK starting a kannda channel, while a strong regional party is still a mirage, what with our state leaders of national(?) parties beholden to the national leaders(buffoons) at delhi.
Regarding, the cusine part, i disagree. All the darshinis and other fast food joints primarly serve kanrnataka delicacies.
All of MTR’s business is not sold to the Norwegian company(actually it is a american company mccormick), only their microwaveable food business and the masala poweder business has been bought out.
>>Puliyogare, everything served in these restaurants is Kannadiga. What if it has a slightly Mangalorean twist to it?
Puliyogare too is a karnataka delicacy. It is primarily a Iyengar delicacy perfected in and around melkote, near mandya. As you might be aware Ramanujacharya, was driven out of TN by the shivaite kings and he migrated to melkote with his followers and rest as they say is history. So technically puliyogare is a karantaka delicacy.
can you prove your assertion.
Kannada is profoundly influenced by sanskrit,while marathis script is devanagari.Bombay and Bangalore have always been cosmopolitan for different reasons.Both are hindutva states.Even the ethnic composition and history are different compared to TN and andhra.This has been so from ancient times.TN has a long coast.
Karnataka has an ace up its sleeve-Cauvery to harass the tamil tormentors.While karnataka and maharashtra might be subsumed in the national mainstream,the local cultures intermingled with northern culture might produce new variants.
Sanjaya – Again I cant help but agree with you. With respect to role models, it is not about the lack of intrinsic value but about the ability and means to appreciate and recognize it.
With respect to food again, I partly agree with both sets of views. there are too many andhra, mallu, mastkalandars and what nots. All the darshinis also serve kannadiga food. but you go about asking anyone, they say idli and dose are tamil food – wrong perception no one questions. But why is jolada rotti oota not more prevalent in bengalooru is something that needs to be questioned.
>>they say idli and dose are tamil food – wrong perception no one questions. But why is jolada rotti oota not more prevalent in bengalooru is something that needs to be questioned.
Idli/Dosa’s invention has been usurped by TN even though it is prevelant all over south india. I even, remember reading a news item some years back which said a lady in Tamilnadu did a phd dissertation at Madurai Kamaraj University on the subject “Dosa was invented by some Chola king”
I think we’re missing the critical point here. The issue is NOT whether dose/puliyogare/chutney is of Karnataka origin. The issue is that the contribution of the state to national and international culture in multiple dimensions is not recognised or acknowledged. The reason are many as I’ve submitted in my 1st post.
For example, Purandara Dasa and Venkat Mukhi’s seminal contribution to Carnatic music has been drowned out by the Dishitar’s of the world. The reason is simple: The rich cultural tradition of music has been abandoned. The Madras Academy has become the de factor purveyor of all Carnatic music with its hoary traditions of the katcheris etc. It is through this rich connection with music does a Shankar Mahadevan or a Sivamani or a Rehman emerge. Now compare the situation in Karnataka. Again, this is an example that can be applied to business, entrepreneurship, movies, media, dance, politics, NGOs etc etc.
Unless there’s a critical self-evaluation of the realities, we are doomed to scoring cheap, easy and irrelvant points like what the MNS/SS/KRV are doing. For example, the real issue is not in job reservations for Kannadigas in Class IV jobs in state and private enterprises. This doesn’t really help in the advancing of Kannadigas if the ownership and wealth creation is not in their hands and they’re relegated to doing clerical file-pushing jobs. The real issue is how does one create 1000s of Kannadiga business owners. How many Kannadigas run / are in top management in IT companies in Bengaluru should be the question apart from asking how many programmers and Class IV staff are Kannadigas!
Any sense of entitlement will deepen the malaise – high contentment, low motivation, high corruption, petty politicking, low awareness. A situation ripe for exploitation by politicians and those with money!
You raise valid points, and your understanding of where Kannadigas need to reach in the job market is unquestionable.
However, just the fact that you can talk about creating 1000s of Kannadiga business owners does not make KRV’s attempts to secure the lower hanging fruit of Class IV jobs “cheap, easy and irrelevant”. KRV is delivering whatever little is possible through their means, as well as raising awareness levels in Kannadigas. Class IV jobs may be cheap, easy and irrelevant to you, but they are not to those who want them. Owning a business may be elite, difficult and relevant to you, but it’s not to those who can’t even get Class IV jobs today.
KRV is atleast delivering on Class IV jobs and is treading on the path towards delivering on creating business owners. What are you doing? Only philosophizing from the comfort of your armchair?
First deliver, mister! Show me you’re bent upon executing your brilliant ideas, and not just throwing fundas. If you can’t, stand at the steps leading to the institution of execution which KRV is and clap your hands in awe. Don’t disrespect those who deliver, although you as an individual may not want what they deliver. There are crores of people who want what KRV delivers (and not just talks).
konkana sutti mailaarakke bandru anno haage,, sutti baLasi, olle kelsa maadta iro KRV na bayyoke e baraha baLasiddiralri,,
Why this is perception in all medias that anyone who talks about the plight of locals, local language, local issues is a threat to national integrity.
Tamils have outrightly rejected Hindi. Does that make them less patriotic?? Does that mean,, they don’t cheer when India wins against Aussies??
It’s nothing but hypocritical of your ilk when you want to target someone just out of personal vendetta.
Can you just tell me, had it not been for KRV, who would have stopped the Railway Injustice?? If you still in a state of denying that there was no injustice to kannadigas, some questions to you
1> Why no ads placed in Locals papers and why huge publicity in Bihari media?
2> Why an 8th std passed out was asked to fill the application forms in Hindi/English?
3> Why an 8th std passed out was asked to write the exams in Hindi/English?
4> Why laloo arranged special trains to ferry hoards of biharis to bengaluru?
5> Why did he made all the accomodation arrangements to them?
The “Why”s will go on…
” naanu maadalla,, maadorigu biDalla ” anno mentality..
KRV is atleast delivering on Class IV jobs….I am not sure how you come to this conclusion.
The origin of Puliyogare is debatable. But surely, the Puliyogare of the temples in Karnataka(mostly run by Mysore/Melkote Iyengars) tastes far better than what is available in Tamil Nadu
A familiar refrain of KRV supporters is that by breaking the law in pursuit of their goals they are only doing what Mahatma Gandhi did. The gall!
Gandhi never went around assaulting or threatening people, destroying property, doing roll-call (as an honourable MP has pointed out), and so on. More to the point, the target of Gandhi’s law-breaking activities wasn’t his countrymen but the colonial power. But I suppose those details are meaningless if you want to bury your head in the soil of the land.
Here also KRV’s fight is another type of colonial power(NORTH INDIANS and TAMILIANS) that has and has been invading us from the centuries… read the history karnataka’s history correctly and you wil notice two points
a)each and every king who ruled karnataka fought with the tamilian kings.. this has been going on from centuries…
b) Karnataka was never ruled by a north indian. The rich cultured culture prevalent in our state opposed to dirty culture prevalent in north proves this..
So why should v now become second class citizens in our own state when we were living decent honourable life for centuries… I think india wil break up Like USSR if migration from UP or bihar in to other states are not stopped… it has the potential of leading india to civil war…
The Shetty Hot owner,
Giving the message to the railway authorities and the Central Govt. that Kannadigas should get priority in Class IV recruitment itself is a delivery par excellence which nobody till now has been able to make.
Waking up Kannadigas to this reality is a delivery par excellence which nobody till now has been able to make.
You will see, that as time progresses, Kannadigas will not be sidelined like earlier when it comes to Railway recruitment.
The fact that Gandhi’s philosophy was “show the second cheek to the slapper” is besides the point. The point is – he did, goddammit, break the law when he made salt at Dandi. Every action of Gandhi against the British was against law.
If you can’t digest the example of Gandhi, take the example of Lord Krishna in the battle of Kurukshetra since this involves the person in question advocating for killing the enemy — the extreme form of “threatening or assaulting”.
You may need to give yourself enough time to think about it (some even require a lifetime), so don’t reply in a hurry:
Krishna himself had to resort to breaking laws so that law is upheld! He had to lie, make people shoot below the waist, create darkness during daylight — what not for the sake of restoration of dharma! There were fools who blamed Krishna for these acts, and there continue to be such fools!
And yeah — your whole concept of not “assaulting or threatening” countrymen is the exact confusion of Arjuna: must I, or must not I fight my own kin in battle?
Every spark and every fire has a place on this Earth as overload, short circuits and fusing are common place. If either gets out of control, one should have firefighters, water, sand and the like handy to put it out. This is not possible if one stands around …asking why the spark or fire got there/ or cursing the wiring. Obviously, there has been some trigger. Now, a spark cannot and will not turn into a fire unless there is some inflammable material. Threat to identity and ill-treatment are reason enough for sparks of protests for some. If there is continued trigger, it could turn into a fire. So first stop the provocations, not the reactions to it. Otherwise, we will have smoke and ashes too. And below that, red hot cinders would continue to smoulder.
Those who respect a job wont distinguish “merely by name” between jobs. Of course there is a division of labour, but if someone feels aiming for all the “higher” jobs in the state makes you big, and aiming for all the “smaller/lower” jobs in the state makes you small, and if someone things that by doing so, KRV has shown to be small/low lying, this someone is wrong.
Look at the city of Mumbai – supposedly the commercial capital of India with all the rich people people of India parked here – even here the struggle is mightily for jobs like taxi drivers among others.
A job is a job, and the first principle here is it has to go to a kannadiga first in Karnataka. Likewise to a marathi in MH.
In fact lacking of entrepreneurship in kannadiga souls also stems from this very ideology – not respecting all jobs alike. People just want to become rich the next moment, and dont want to work hard for this. Of course if there’s an easier, fair way, I am not saying we shouldn’t tread that way, but if the hard way is inevitable, then not treading on that route is sheer durahankaara. In fact all the good tales of entrepreneurs in India (and outside too) start with the individual burning the midnight oil struggling hard and then reaching the final state of elation.
So be it a group-D job in Karnataka or the director’s post in a company, or be it the post of a taxi driver, or a post of advisory to the governor, Kannadigas need to be there in Karnataka.
ask your aatmasakshi again about the honourable MP that you mention in your comment – did you mean that indeed?!
honourable MP :)..
1> Our Ekikarana movement Leader Papu calls an all party MPs meeting to discuss the railway injustice and the honourable MP absconds.
2> Whole of the state protests the injustice in railway recruitment, and your honourable MP utters rubbish things like” There was no injustice at all”.
3> When the protest led by KRV snowballed into a movement, all political parties wake up alike and atleast open their mouth and our honourable MP thinks otherwise and bashes those who ate police lathi.
4> Honourable MP has constructed a huge bunglow in RT Nagar and has threatned the locals over a piece of land near to hers and a police case was registered in RT Nagar police Station.
Now, if such traits makes someone honourable then KRV and it’s fighters have no honour at all…
@Ramesh Gowda: Since idiots have started using the Bhagwad Gita as a defence for the bandicoots, as a fool I rest my case.
I agree with your point somewhat. However, there are no jobs which actually have gone to Kannadigas because of KRV. How do you respond to the following questions: (this was meant for the MNS but is equally applicable to the KRV)
This will lead to the Balkanization of India
All Indians have a right to go everywhere and settle everywhere, there are Kannadigas in other parts of the country as well-should they be sacked for taking jobs belonging to locals?
Jobs must go those merit them, not locals/non-locals
Such thing divide the country
Sons of the soil theory is not acceptable; all Indians are Indians first and then Kannadigas, Marathis
These are oft-asked questions-what is your answer to them
When Lord Krishna preached those words of wisdom to Arjuna, they were in the middle of a war already. No-one had heard of Independent Judiciary. A very modest plea from the Pandavas – that each of the brother be handed over a village, nothing more – had been rejected by the Kauravas. Pandavas had been humiliated time and again by the Kauravas. It was a feudal society, all the power rested with the King – Kauravas.
You’re trying to defend the in-defensible, KRV cannot be equated to Lord Krishna or Gandhi. Thats scornful. Do not support a monster in the making, it’ll come back to haunt us all. Fight for the cause in a peaceful and civil manner.
As usual you spit and run!
I am disappointed to see a streak of ‘militant’ NGOism latent in Bhami’s post. While making all kinds of specious arguments and a warm eye for himself and his NGO, he is barking up the wrong tree as far as KRV is concerned.
Ramesh Gowdre! several super posts and rejoinders.
Sisya thank you for your post.
First-hand experience. An acclaimed Kannada film is running in a good theatre for several weeks. A titillatory film with a journalist playing a small role in it is ready for release. The producers and distributors of the latter employ the protectors of the state to force the theatre owner to take out the first Kannada film and insert theirs. Cash bill for services rendered—Rs 75,000.
You better come clean. what are you alluding at? Are you saying that Ravi belagere is using the KRV as muscle for screening his film? If so please explain the relevancy of it in this post. No need to use allusions this is a blog and not a newspaper and who, where, when gave you this bill details of Rs 75,000???
Fools don’t rest cases. Cases are rested on fools. If you have what it takes, argue it out instead of running away like a coward.
I am not comparing KRV to Gandhi or Krishna. Nor will allow an equation of the three. I’m just trying to prove that going against law for the sake of Law (the one with a capital L) is not new. This is how any great victory has ever been achieved by anybody anywhere in the world.
>>”The origin of Puliyogare is debatable.
Why is it debatable? Simply because kongas claim it as their own? For that matter, Kongas claim everything pleasant and pristine under the sun as their own.. doesnt mean its origins become ‘debatable’!
>>But surely, the Puliyogare of the temples in Karnataka(mostly run by Mysore/Melkote Iyengars) tastes far better than what is available in Tamil Nadu”
Not just puliyogare. Anything fit for human consumption tastes better in Karnataka than in konganadu. At the risk of being branded ‘chauvinist’, let me assert that Kannada cuisine has infinitely more sophistication and variety than any other cuisine. Our saaru is more than just huNisehaN neeru(rasam) and the pathetic miLagai podi has few million years of evolution left before it can catch up with our chatni pudi in taste or sophistication (my andhra friend will testify to this). Not to mention our infinite variety of uppinakayis. what passes for vaDu maa uppinkayi is a poor cousin of our miDi uppinakayi and I havent seen anything quite like our amaTe kayi uppinakayis yet. The list could go on..
Not only does the food in konga land taste pathetic.. but their kitchens could give pig sties a run for their money. our average darshini is spic and span and far cleaner than any average fast food restaurant even in the US.
talking of kongas and restaurants in the US.. reminds me of a conversation I had with a konga a couple of years ago..
there we were sitting outside a starbucks and sipping some horrid coffee and he kept yapping away about how great konga filTr coffee is… and how “awesome” konga cuisine is.. and chettinadu cuisine is.. and then has the gall to conclude by claiming.. “when we talk of food.. it has to be only TN or andhra food..”
I looked him in the eye and asked him.. — “oh.. is that why your proud chettinadu kongas in US run their restaurants using Udupi’s fair name?”
he never spoke to me about cuisine after that.
ps: fyi for those not familiar with south indian restaurants in the US… an overwhelming percentage of them are pathetic.. so pathetic that I’ve chosen to starve on occasions rather than pay to eat there; most of them are run by kongas or gults but invariably it is Udupi’s fair name they choose to use and haraaj.
I am disappointed with the arguments used to disagree with me. May be it is my fault that I did not present my point correctly.
Some have suggested that I was using this to get publicity for Pratham. Why will I do that? Pratham is already well known in places where it matters like the slums, educational sector, donors etc. Of course every bit publicity helps. But in this case publicity was not the intention.
My purpose of giving the example of KRV was to show how an emotive issue like a water dispute could result in unintended consequences. Pratham is contributing towards the popularization of kannada in slums where often the language spoken is not Kannada. Thus Pratham is also contributing towards the very cause for which KRV is agitating.
Some have written that KRV did not break the law. When they broke into Pratham office and demolished sign boards and broke window panes, isn’t it breaking law? Gandi did break the law and he readily admitted and ‘begged” for punishment. Are KRV prepared for such punishment? More importantly, under the British rule there was no democracy. Today we are the rulers and each of us start breaking laws then there would be anarchy. It was this principle I was trying to discuss.
Some have also derisively commented that any thing happenning any where can be connected to any other phenomenon. What a pity! Jinnah’s Pakistan today is the playground for producing the maximum number of significant jihadi leaders. It was not by chance Osama ended in Pakistan. It was Pakistan trained jihadis who are behind most of the terrorist plots around the world. Indonesia, Nigeria, India have more than 100 million muslims each. Still none of them have produced terrorists of that type. It was this which led me to connect 9/11 to Jinnah and it was not a flippant explanation to discuss a major world event.
All of us from Karnataka love Kannada. I studied in Kannada despite my mother tongue being konkani. I hope discussion will now be towards the issues of emotional and divisive issues exploited by the populist leaders like Thackeray.
Really appreciate your participation in the discussion. I will answer your responses to my comment.
KRV has always welcomed punishment following agitations. Breaking the law is not their intention. Nobody wants to break the law. The workers of KRV are brave men who are well aware of what the course of law will be, and what their actions beget. The brave men of KRV willingly draw upon themselves the wrath of laws which are better broken for the cause of Kannadigas. Armchair philosophers, on the other hand, either wish someone else broke those laws, or limiting themselves to laws forget the cause of Kannadigas.
Regarding your taking objection to my bringing the British conquest of India into the discussion: My comment was not derisive. I only asked you to go one step behind and ask yourself what might be the reasons for KRV’s actions. While you are stuck up on KRV breaking the law, you’ve rendered yourself incapable of asking why KRV is doing what it’s doing. That’s a pity. You can’t step into the Kurukshetra war scene where Krishna is asking the pandavas to lie (and thus break “law”) and come to wrong conclusions about Krishna or the pandavas. You need to dig deeper.
For the Whites of the USA, Martin Luther King was nothing but a Raj Thackeray
For the Whites of south africa, Nelson Mandela was nothing but a Raj Thackeray
Try to understand
The Shetty Hotel Owner,
All Indians have the right to go everywhere and settle everywhere. But one set of Indians who speak Hindi or Hindi-like tongues have one right (to be precise, a luxury) which no other linguistic people have: a red-carpet welcome all over India. Why? Because knowing their language Hindi is compulsory for government jobs everywhere in India. This puts them at an unfair advantage when it comes to jobs. Once they fill jobs, the Hindiness of that place increases. When it increases, they start claiming that this place is already Hindified, warranting more migration. It’s a self-reinforcing mechanism y’see?
Your merit argument makes sense, of course. But which of those jobs require such rare merit which is not found within Karnataka? Where is the proof that such is the case (other than the fact that Kannadigas are disadvantaged by birth because of having Kannada as mother-tongue)? From Class IV workers to s/w engineers in Infosys, the merit argument is used without data.
There are huge differences b/w Kannadigas who go to other states for jobs and other-tongued migrants to Karnataka: (1) Kannadigas become one with the local culture and language. Those who come to Karnataka, on the other hand, neglect Kannada and Kannada culture. This is the reason for much heartburn. (2) Kannadigas do not indulge in what is called as linguistic nepotism. One Kannadiga manager does not pull a whole army of Kannadigas into his company when he’s outside Karnataka. While a Mallu, a Tamil, a Bihari, a Hindi — all these fellows do.
All Kannadigas are Kannadigas first and then Indians, and only later citizens of the world. Your lopsided logic is good to the ears but conflicts with logic. Not very long ago, Kannadigas and Marathis, Kannadigas and Tamils, Kannadigas and Mallus, Kannadigas and Hindis were sworn enemies engaged in internecine battles — although there has been some cultural give and take.
It is wrong to think that these truths divide India. Fools do so and try to hide history. All that doesn’t work or help. A strong India needs to be built inspite of these truths, and inspite of all the diversity; not on the grave of diversity.
Karnataka Government is interested in doing something for Kannada? Please explain how.
You sound reasonable.Hindi speaking people are far less powerful in chennai.Also the mallus and tamils and telugus have been able to restrict immigration to their states.We need to make andhra,kerala and TN more friendly to ‘outsiders’.This will ease the burden on Karnataka and Maharashtra.More north indians should flow into these states as workers and entrepreneurs.This is the minimum that the nation and’hindis’can do for karnataka’s contribution to the nation and its generosity to its mallu,tamil and andhra neighbours.I also hope an independent telengana is formed and the centre becomes sensitive to the exaggerated claims of tamil chauvinism.The asymmetry between karnataka and other southern states should be reduced.
While praising the subtle taste of the cuisine of karnataka,you could have avoided some remarks.There was strong provocation i believe,but you need not have stooped to the level of others.
This will lead to the Balkanization of India
Ramesh Gowda, you have not answered this question
Dear pullikeshi the last:
what, as a Kannadiga, do you feel about KRV? What is your honest assessment? Do they have potential to become a genuine political party? Or do you feel they will degenerate into becoming a bunch of vigilantis? What are your feelings when you read: “Yesterday, KRV beat up such and such- or “yesterday KRV attacked such and such shop.”
@ Sanjaya’s First Comment
On a full offensive mode, Sanjaya, I should tell you how paradoxical kannadigas have come to be with their ownself.
To start with you, and your observation of KaRaVe folks having a “plain lumpen” attitude towards underdeveloped kannadigas and Kannada, lies my sincere attempt to open up our “perplexed psyches”.
So if KaRaVe unearths the deficiency of Kannadigas in IIMs, IAS, IFS et al. (which I think they’re capable of), they have moved earth as opposed to doing the same in Indian Railway System, huh?
“Lumpens”, in your own words, are men of masses. Their approach is bound to be bottom-up, than top-down. So who then should do the top-down riding? You, my friend. And also me. And all we armchair analysts out here.
But how many of us have the will to walk into IIMs and say ‘I want to survey the students based on linguistic background’. May be a handful amongst we pseudonyms out here.
No. No. There is nothing wrong in such surveys. It doesnot classify us as a “old citizen of new India”; it does not even hit hard on our educated nationalist or globalist ideology. And importantly it does not even add to our deepest fears of linguistic chauvinism. Simply because, we all have read American journals that have constantly highlighted the percentage of Asian Americans, African Americans, Hispanics etc over the years without breeding hatred, but continuously fostering a sense of commitment to grow amongst each communities.
However, until and unless advocated by a foreigner to an Indian on the importance of such surveys, it takes an instinct of a KaRaVe member to throw up such “lumpen” thoughts/ideas—be it railways or rocket science.
Ours is premeditative instincts. Our minds run faster than our mouths, somewhere truly skipping what we are from what we say. Making us intellectuals, directly opposite to KaRaVe member (whose mouth works faster than mind).
Both have their plus and minus. I guess it was the minus that happened to our very own Narayana Murthy when he uttered in fit of globalization: “we have foreign audience here, and national anthem …” And even his treasured belief to speak English in certain occasion.
Now, Sanjaya, what an amazing question we need to answer to ourselves: Is Dr. Raj in any which way a lesser role model for Kannada kids compared to NRN/Viseshwaraya/Karanth? A man whose humble lifestyle, hardwork, effort and principled screen-life (as a hero he personally abstained from smoking/drinking roles and drove so many fan followers in the same path), is no different from all of the three others. Only difference is their fields. And I presume every state has a void of some or the other field-role-model, and not just Karnataka. It is the motivation you draw from such people and not their inclination. (in case of our former PM, polititians don’t suit the bill of such discussion)
In summary, perplexing psyche (like ours) is far more bigger bane than lumpen minds.
Without identifying these nuances (perplexing but revealing at the sametime), development is something which we collectively fail to understand. Without getting some of the questions answered to ourselves, there is no moving ahead. Without quantifying the right number of kannadigas and getting their facts and figure right on every possible profession in the world, we can never say where we are lacking.
One cant become railway businessman (entrepreneurs) without having worked there and known its loopholes. So we need the likes of KaRaVe to point at the bottom and send people to work there, first. We need people like us (yes, we armchair pseudonyms) to tell where the shortage is on a higher level.
In simple words, I don’t believe we lack achievers, parenting, development, political clout or education in any which goddamn way. If we do lack anything it is only awareness. And importantly, competition built on such awareness or the ancillary effects of awareness. We the perplexed psyched, premeditative instinct individuals haven’t built enough awareness.
KaRaVe or whoever has started it from the bottom. Someone has to do it from the top. Who else is better suited than Us! If only we could do it on a state level. If only we had our own newspaper.
I’m glad at least we have Churumuri!
The so called kannad food served in blore is pathetic to say the least. They don’t have a idea of how to prepare a decent food not even serve water for quenching that’s the state of affairs in the IT city. pure garbage nothing else