
True to its name, the Hogenakal row has generated more smoke than light. Both sides are convinced that they are dead right and the other side is dead wrong—and neither side can entertain any other possibility in a surcharged atmopshere.
Karnataka says that since Hongenakal lies in a “disputed area“, TN cannot go ahead with the integrated water scheme till its “inter-State implications” are examined under the inter-state water disputes Act. It says the grant of a no-objection certificate by the Union water resources ministry in September 1998 cannot be considered as a resolution of the “inter-State implications” since the project was not part of TN’s case before the Cauvery water disputes tribunal (unlike the water supply scheme for Bangalore which Karnataka undertook).
For its part, Tamil Nadu avers that Karnataka has no locus standi to oppose the Hogenakal project since it is based on the NOC issued by the Centre 10 years ago. It says the two States had agreed not to object to drinking water supply schemes as long as the State concerned utilised water from its allocated share. It says the project is on the left bank of the border “which is well within Tamil Nadu”, hence there is no border dispute. It says it is using water allocated to it and which runs through TN for the project. And it says that the border dispute was solved fifty years ago.
But the intemperate statements of Tamil Nadu chief minister M. Karunanidhi, the call for a Karnataka bandh on April 10 issued by language activists, the blackout of Tamil TV channels, disruption of bus services on either side, and the call for a Tamil film industry fast on Friday have queered the pitch.
Questions: Is the Hogenakal controversy only about water or is it also about land?
2. Is this an issue to be settled on the streets through the show of emotions by language chauvinists, writers and cinema stars, or in calm environs by water experts, people’s representatives and lawyers?
3. How specifically is Karnataka’s interests harmed? Will farmers or consumers be deprived of water because of the project, or is Karnataka wary that allowing water use will open the floodgates?
4. Can 30 lakh people of two districts (Krishnagiri and Dharmapuri) be deprived of drinking water merely because there is an resolved border row between two States for 50 years?
5. If more Tamil Nadu districts suffer from water shortage, can TN build similar dams downstream and seek a corresponding increase in Cauvery water allocation to meet the new requirements?
6. If Tamil Nadu’s intentions are entirely honourable and above-board, why was it so difficult for their State government to divulge the details of the project before formally launching it?
7. Would the Japan Bank for International Co-operation have agreed to fund the Hogenakal project if the legality of the location or the status of the river water dispute was not so clear?
8. Is Karnataka (and are Kannadigas) gaining any friends through knee-jerk reactions which seem to convey as if the people speaking a certain language (and their property) are the target?
9. Why in democratic India has it become so difficult for two States of the Union to sit and resolve an issue amicably? Why can’t the tribunal adjudicate on the “inter-State dimensions” expeditiously?
10. Has Hogenakal become an election issue? Are DMK in Tamil Nadu and the BJP in Karnataka trying to take electoral mileage out of it? Has Karnataka’s case been hurt by the absence of a popular government?
Also read: What your nela and what your jala says about you
Photograph: Kannada activists, including former minister B.T. Lalitha Naik (second from left), the BJP’s Mukhya Mantri Chandru (third from left) and T.A. Narayana Gowda of the Karnataka Rakshana Vedike (second from right), take out a torch-light march in Bangalore on Wednesday in protest against the statements of Tamil chief minister, M. Karunanidhi (Karnataka Photo News)
It is sad that since this issue erupted (probably 6 – 8 days back) not even a single voice is heard about two states talking and trying to figure out a solution. All we have got is posturing and rheotoric. I guess that is the compulsion politicians have as concilatory moves / possibility of solution through talks will be seen as “compromise” and droha to their states. So they have to be seen as the torch bearers for the cause.
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I think part of the reason for the resentment in Karnataka is that MK Karunanidhi is far below the grace that his position demands. He has come up in politics by taking digs at non-tamils, hinduism and brahmins (somewhat like Bal Thackeray, who had improved quite a bit later on) and even after holding a political office, he continues it.
I tend to believe that a lot of this could have been averted if this was handled a bit more diplomatically by the tamil nadu government. And there is no doubt, however, that they shall have it their way, because congress needs its numbers.
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This is ridiculous. Even if we were to pander to the “language chauvinists”, one could make the argument that there is a large population of Kannadigas in Dharmapuri and Krishnagiri who would be deprived of drinking water.
Regardless, I can see another slap in our collective faces coming up from the Supreme Court or the Central Govt. That seems to happen whether there is any merit to our case or not, and this one seems to be deprived of it.
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if for some years now you see a group of people before the NATRAJ theatre (as if it is a symbol of tamil tradition?) everytime any such issue crops up, pulling down tamil film posters and eyeing and attacking TN vehicles , u should be aware who is not ready or rather not suitable for talks….and u though RSS kinds only can be dangerous there are lots of local outfits who can be a pain in the a**
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Has anyone studied the project and found solid reasons from the environmental and financial viability perspective? I am sure there may be solid reasons to do so from these angles (E.g: sethusamudram project which is an ill conceived project that essentially serves no purpose).
The short sighted kannada right (which unfortunately includes a significant portion of the educated middle class) currently cannot see anything beyond so called threats to Kannada.
Karunanidhi may be a charlatan but has a single politician from Karnataka stood up and criticised the childish anti-tamil posturing from the short sighted kannada right? When will we learn?
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Sir, I am tamil living in bangalore with my north Indian wife and mentallyill daughter. I know about cauvery dispute and the issue pending before SC.But this issue has anything to do with the coming elections in Karnataka?I never heard about this before
2.Are tamils to be made scapegoats for Karnataka/tamilnadu dispute.
3.In what way blanking tamil channels,banning tamil films( i dnot see them now),burning tamilnadu buses serve the purpose of kannada interests
4.i remember the same people sometime back burnt 2 ladies for MKs uncivilised comment on ram. Is MK representing all tamils of India?
I came here because my best friend is a kannadiga who died fighting for our nation.
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All because of politicians we people need to suffer.
I is sad to see people attacking a theatre in Bangalore and also, some people attacking a kannadiga run hotel in Chennai.
Kaveri and Hogganekal are very sensitive issues and these should be handled very carefully. It is very irresponsible moves made by honourable CM of Tamilnadu and followed by Former Cm of Karnataka to take the political advantage of the situation.
God save India….
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captainjohann,
Sir,i have a question.Why did you chose bangalore over chennai?
The tamils have put on an air of injured innocence.There is no justice in this country?The plaintive cries,the wails of genial kannadigas is being greeted with derision,contempt,ridicule and condenscension.The frustrations,humiliations of kannadigas is reaching its limits.The emotions are going to boil over as there is no way the kannadigas are going to get their grievances attended in normal channel.Tamil nadu has 40 seats.That is the bottom line.
My mother tongue is tamil.It is a great classical language.But there is a virulent strain of tamil chauvinism which dominates tamil academic and political life.This makes political tamils blind to the cultural achievements of others and have an exaggerated fanciful view of themselves.This is the root of the problem.They think kannadigas are backward and kannada is a vulgar corruption of tamil.Tamils believe they are the real dravidians while kannadigas have been sold to the aryans.They think kannada or for that matter every language other than tamil is uncivilised.
The British who were masters at divide and rule encouraged the separatist tendencies of tamils.They gave them special favours.Restricting cauvery irrigation in mysore and mullaiperiyar imposed on princely state in kerala.It helped that most of TN was under british rule.British brought workers from madras to bengaluru and kolar for THEIR benefit.The tamils were beholden to the british.Even after independence the tamils who came to bengaluru brought their separatist mind set.The Bengaluru tamil sangam worthy wants military intervention.He seems to think it is still a british cantonment.
The LTTE terrorists who killed rajiv found refuge in bengaluru.Any tamil chauvinist can find shelter in bengaluru.Udaya is manipulating kannada opinion.Tamil films are shown in many theatres.Two major tamil dailies have their editions in bangalore.A new generation of software engineers has come from madras.
What is the situation in Karnataka.The kannada poets talked of vishva manava.The kannada ethos is liberal,influenced by hindu traditions and deeply nationalistic.
In madras kannadigas have no identity.They are suppressed even in the border areas within TN.The tamil ethos is hostile to the outsider.This is the background.
Karnataka has its own border problems with maharashtra.But the Karnataka government in general has been liberal with the marathi speaking villages and belgaum.They have their marathi name boards,flags etc They even proclaim they are a part of maharashtra,yet they have not been disturbed unless there is grave provocation as in belgaum.Can this be imagined in TN?There has been give and take in actual fact as karnataka lost solapur,akkalkot and kasargod.
But with TN,it is only give.Karnataka wants water flow to be measured at mettur,because extra 30 TMC water from the forests in the border areas will reach mettur.But TN wants at biligundlu.The water which will be tapped at Hogenakkal in effect will be karnataka’s share as this will not be measured at biligundlu downstream.Hogenakkal is a kannada word.The plateaus and hills belong to karnataka.Gudalur in ooty has been lost so has dhenkanikota.The tamils call hogenakkal as ogenakkal and dhenkanikota as thenkanikottai.Is this not cultural mutilation?
There is no justice for the badugas in TN.KGF and Cantonment were colonised by the british.The workers were brought from outside.While the native kannadigas in their territories in hosur and other places are being discriminated.
Everybody is afraid of tamilians because they give veiled threats of separatism.DMK and Akali Dal are feared.The Tamils have perfected the fine art of blackmailing the centre.Karu and tamil politicians freely interact with foreign diplomats in madras.It is true that tamils have a sea faring tradition.Even the British and Americans are nice to them because of their distinct identity and they see a faultline where they can fish.Tamil politicians are nice to them,sort of saying,we are not indians and we can deal with them directly.
So karnataka is being sacrificed.Malluland is now Xland.Andhras are domineering.The Deccan Chronicle has contempt for karnataka.
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In 1899, when the Mysore Government wanted to build the first ever Cauvery Power Project at Shivansamudra, Madras Government forced the following condition:
(i) that no charge be made for the five years from the date of the concession.
(ii) that thereafter for a period of 30 years for half the total water power utilized a payment of Rs.5.00 per Electrical H.P. per annum shall be made to the Madras Government by the Durbar, provided that the minimum annual payment shall be Rs.2000.00.
Here was case where no water was lost for irrigation purpose as the water from the power project ultimately meandered unhindered in the tail race, yet the Madras Government demanded its pound of flesh despite many fervent pleas by the Mysore Government for a epochal project
for which any right thinking Indian should have been proud !
If this is History of our hostilities and mutual distrust, then it is difficult to be Gandhian and allow TN go scot free particularly if the land in question now even partially falls within Karnataka.
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I have never heard or seen any Kannadiga being attacked or Kannada channels banned in TN. There were never news of buses burnt or Kannada people tortured or humiliated. I see that this opinion is among all Kannada speaking people, I would say if you go to Chennai and start speaking in Kannada, they won’t recognize it in the first place, they will think may be it’s Telugu, coz they don’t meet that many Kannadigas often like they meet Telugu people in their day to day life. So there is no question of Kannadiga’s being targeted in Tamil Nadu. If there were one or two incidents, at least to my knowledge there were no murders taking place besides TN’s actions could have only been a retaliation to some actions from Karnataka.
I don’t know why there are so many mail chains and forums engaged in Kannada vs Tamil war. This is totally unnecessary.
In Tamil Nadu we have engaged in protests over justice and not against Kannadigas. When there were some Tamil Fanatic organizations which wanted to involve in revenge for the killing of Tamil people in 1991 riots in Bangalore, were dealt with iron fists to protect people by the then government of Tamil Nadu.
So there is no speaking, we always see this country as one, repeated efforts by our CM’s to come and speak to top politicians of Karnataka were only received badly by Karnataka’s politicians as they felt there was more political mileage in burning a rivalry between Kannadigas and Tamils.
Afterall Hogenakkal is all about 1.4 TMCft of water which will be taken from Tamil Nadu’s due share of 420 TMCft. As usual as it is election time and need some fire to burn the election thermometer, it is easy for Karnataka politicians to do such things. If Kannadigas need justice there are judicial ways to probe the situation and get a solution for it.
Jeevarathna, you may be wrong the issue you mentioned happened in 1899 and is pre-independence era you are talking about, which really does not fit into the TN and Karnataka issue as it could have been any reason to those high demands and may have not been exposed properly, anyways it is not right to talk about it with context of this issue.
So don’t give these seperatists a chance, unite, the only way to be united is to forget who we are and think we are all God’s children.
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This does not bode well for the future. There is an election due in Karnataka and the politicians — as is their wont– are queering the pitch. Since Karnataka and TN cannot seem to agree on anything, hopefully the courts can settle it. And then there is the issue of the ‘aggrieved’ state biding by the court’s ruling.
The only hope is that the rainfall pattern of the past few years continues or the cauvery issue is only going to escalate. Why does it become open season on Tamils in Karnataka whenever the cauvery pops up in the news? As Indians aren’t they allowed live anywhere in India?
The chauvinists on both sides need to get their heads out of their asses and work on actually resolving the issue. Banning Tamil movies or channels or attacking TN buses in Karnataka or attacking Kannadiga owned restaurants in Chennai serve no purpose other than intimidating innocent people.
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This latest contest might just end up generating rules for proper behaviour on the part of TN.
Godavari went to Andhra which now wants the Krishna as well. TN wants the Kaveri. Kerala wants Kabini. We want a glass of water from the Mahadai, from the part that flows through out state. A foreign woman in Delhi says no to our request. Maharashtra has dried up the banks of our Bhima.
Why do we allow ourselves to be victimised this way?
I suppose our water related problems can be solved by the much touted river grid. By the time Gangamma receives baagina from Kaveramma, it will be too late for all the parties involved. Global warming spares no one.
In the meantime, I still object to the KRV’s terrorism. As many of our friends have already said, violence begets violence.
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A group of 40 advocates of the madras high court bearing names like arun joseph,lincoln,pughazhendi ransacked two eating outlets,one within the High Court campus.
This illustrates the difference.KRV activists are illiterates.Arcot Veerasami,a gult and the Electricity Minister of TN and the mouthpiece of karu poured venom on karnataka yesterday in a meeting to felicitate P.Susheela.The DMK top leadership is anti-national.
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All disputed areas (between states) in India should be handed over to the Chinese on a 99 year lease. Then the two states can stand united in their hatred of the Chinese. The Chinese on their part may condescend and build a Three-gorges kind of dam at Hogennakal. That will submerge Krishnagiri, Dharmapuri, and a host of other villages (including hopefully namma Bengaluru).
If the Chinese don’t return back the land after 99 years, I don’t care.. I won’t be alive. Anyway by 2100, Chennai and Mumbai will be inside the water. So who cares??
I am rambling… Time to stop and start coding. I love Chinese food.
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Kaveri tribunal judgement hege namma baayige maNNu haakide antha illi nodi
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Sano:
I am not advocating the present method of street fight and playing on the hubris.
But you cannot ignore the historical perspective when TN is harping on the 1924 agreement for it’s rights. Fact of the matter was in 1924 Coorg was not part of Mysore State and even Kollegal was part of Madras Presidency. That being the case both Karnataka and TN can be construed as successor states and 1924 agreement should be dealt as a non -issue.
But unfortunately legal verdicts over the years have defied principle of Natural justice and the resultant frustration has given way to the exploitation of the pent up emotions.
River disputes all over the world and the rights of up riparian and lower riparian states are seldom been solved.
See once you surrender your rights it becomes legal precedent . So you have to be vigilant and not allow empathy or hatred to govern your actions. My quoting the 1899 correspondence was only to highlight that perspective.
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http://www.chennaionline.com/colnews/newsitem.asp?NEWSID=%7B2EA88E57%2D92C6%2D4860%2DBD3B%2DC305EFB48FE8%7D&CATEGORYNAME=CHN
This is what supposedly educated Konga lawyers(!!!!!) are capable of.. in the court premises (!!!!!!!!!)
And we have holier-than-thous here pontificating about “methods” kannadigas should be following! Bhuvaneshwari should feel blessed.
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Thanks to KL for all the details. The key in this matter but remains in the answer to these two points churumuri rightly raised:
4. Can 30 lakh people of two districts (Krishnagiri and Dharmapuri) be deprived of drinking water merely because there is an resolved border row between two States for 50 years?
5. If more Tamil Nadu districts suffer from water shortage, can TN build similar dams downstream and seek a corresponding increase in Cauvery water allocation to meet the new requirements?
Continuing on these lines I ask the following questions – entire of KA would like to hear earnest answers to these – from who – who else?!
a. For what is the Mettur dam built – which happens to be just about 40-50kms from Hogenakkal, and Dharmapuri district too. Our reservoir (KRS i.e.) standing about 150kms away still pushes water all the way up until the city of Bengalooru. Why not Mettur->Dharmapuri?
b. Hogenakal being under sub-judice of a border dispute, doesnt mean it doesnt belong to us. It originally belongs to Karnataka, and that is being disputed by TN. So until the dispute is settled, Karnataka completely owns this place until the last inch that falls inside (and on) the border separating the two states. Period. No damned black-goggled guy or an oversized lady (crossing borders wearing a bullet proofed seerE) can move a dry stick on this land without Karnataka’s permission.
c. TN claims this project was given an NOC in ’98 itself. So does that mean families living in Dharmapuri in TN lived with no water for 10 long years, and now the people of that district (still alive) cant take it anymore, and thats why TN govt. wants the project urgently? How ridiculous a claim – sounds like a soap serial, and omigosh! Our white-bearded guy in Delhi seems to be buying time to gobble this lie up!
I’d say KA has had enough of this nonsense with our immediate neighbors. Now, the center just stands on our side with an iron foot, or take it from us, Karnataka will apply for freedom from its step-mother. Then, so will TN, and so will AP, and so on.. does the center want this? They decide, of course!
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geLeyare,
I am posting here for the first time, namaskaara…
I am a 100 % kannadiga living in Chennai.Moved here 5 years ago from namma bengaLooru.
It hurts the interest of Kannadigas here( there are thousands, why lakhs here to be correct) when ka. ra. ve hooligans attack tamil cinema theatres and blacken tamil boards, stop TN buses, attack Ulsoor based Bangalore tamil sangham in Bangalore etc.
We kannadigas have not been treated like this here, attack on sangeetha hotel y’day being an aberration in the long history of Peaceful chennai.
I hear it was peaceful here even during the peak of cauvery riot/ agitation or ‘OraTa’ ( sic) days in karnataka.
They talk of No kannada fils as a reason to ban Tamiul films in Bangalore… It is another matter that even a renowned kannada film like Mungaaru MaLe could not run for three weeks here because of poor patronage..no less, no more…Parvathamma wanted to release even Sathya in love too here…
Hmmmm…I am seeing Udaya news and kannada naadi on ETV Kan on my cable TV connection..AND, NO..Kannada channels are NOT blocked here as on 10 am Thursday , April 3..
My summary is we want peace and not ‘piece-piece’ !! Heated minds never solved any problem…
Nagesh
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Dear KL,
I am happy atlast you are opening up and showing your thoughts which others may be suppressing.
I came here because of NIMHANS the only and the best institution in India and asia for mental health. Also Halfway homes like richmond fellowship,Kdabam,MPA are available only in Bangalore and not even in Delhi capital of India.
Now i think the very thought i being tamil must not come to bangalore by people like you are worrying.If you think Veerappan and LTTE represent tamils then i cannot help.
Who gave leadership to MGR, a malayalee or Jayalalitha a kannadiga or those icons like Sarojadevi,pandaribai,NTR,nageswara rao or the leading heroes in tamilfilms today.(Tamil heroes are horrible looking compared to keralites and kannadigas!!!).
Now Rajni kanth an icon is what?
You may not know about history from your comment and you may not know Sarfoji Maharaj, marathi rulers and soldiers who took shelter in tamilnadu from aurangazeb.What is thirumalai nayak mahal in Madurai. Who is he?Even tipusultan gave stone footpaths to Krishnagiri temple.
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KL,
That was a wonderful post. The tamils have been able to extract special concessions denied to any other language speakers by by bullying and by issuing separatist threats.This is almost the way how the islamists have had their way in western europe.
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sir,
hogenakal comes under hanoor assembly in chamrajanagar. People have Karnataka govt’s ration card, voting card. Any crime done gets FIRed in male mahadeshawar police station. What else do you need to show that the island belongs to karnataka.
Even then,, we tried doing a join survey with TN and they are reluctant to this. We showed them the trope sheet drawn during british time, which shows hoganakal as part of KA, why are TN govt hesitant to show any proofs in this regard?
Right now, as the matter is with supreme court, why can’t they stay shut until court decides what to do?
nammalli popular govt illadiro time nodi honchu haaki maadta irodu yaake yaarigu kaaNsalva?
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One of my office collegues (who is an American) asked me why there were issues which need to be agreed multiple times, once an agreement is made. The obvious reasoning behind that being you think multiple times, discuss / seek approval from people in various fields (politicans, seniors from the field of culture, citizens) BEFORE signing the agreement.
I was thinking about this but ultimately felt while that is logical thing to do there are so many parameters which are there which may not seem logical but do happen. Some element of this also is the current day politicians saying we had weak people leading the government that time and this should have never been signed etc.
This is not just for this specific issue but as a generic process.
We were also having a chat on similar lines on the issue to multiple airports in Bangalore (why the goverment closed that option when it signed the agreement).
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every time there is talk of giving classical language status to kannada in the central govt, DMK ministers oppose it tooth and nail.
why are they against this proposal, this is INFERIORITY COMPLEX.
solution to the present impasse would be,
a) withdraw the resolution passed in the assembly stating kannadigas as durabhimaanigalu etc.
b) agree for a joint survey with karnataka in the area.
c ) hold talks with the popular govt in karnataka in june and take it forward from there.
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Nice very nice everyone’s just adding fuel to the fire.
Anyways Jeevarathna, the issues you stated is not applicable for one more reason because, these cannot be longer to taken to the Union Assembly and the hard evidence you collected so far will only become baseless.
After Independence the whole country wants a new lease of life and if past is not forgot, then there can be no way of living.
Water is source of life and for the wonderful calculation someone has written somewhere of TN wasting water is just myth any calculation done in the lower reparian states for wastage of water will not be justified when the river itself wants to join the ocean.
***
Anyways guys, answer me why there is educated people like us involved in Chauvinism., that includes me too. Why should I defend my state, when I know the country I live is India.
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KL and everyone else:
You are absolutely wrong about your mentioning of Gudalur and ThenKanikotai, what do you have to say about ThodaBhetta, Swamy Betta in Ooty, can you say something about it.
If that is the case, I can also start cribbing about linguistic mutilation of PARANGI PALYA and all such PALYA’s where the usual Tamil indication is “M” after PALYA, PARANGI PALYA will be PARANGI PALAYAM in Tamil, can you also say something about this?
Don’t get into mental state where you start hating all about Tamil and Tamil Nadu and stop unnecessary hate.
If you say Udaya TV is lecturing Tamil propaganda, I can easily say that Kannada magazines are creating enemity between groups and the fact that you educated people have been misdirected proves more.
The world should unite, get past the old age and be God’s men.
Our country is facing invaders, religious fanaticism, casteism and what not?
To add should we burden ourselves with one more of these, please think.
The issue raised by Raj Thackeray created such a flury that it costed the state’s ex-chequer Rs. 250 crore in repairing damaged public property.
Think of the tax you paid and do you want it to be used for this purpose, look at the Americans they have always demanded their rights and set things right when their tax money has been used wastefully, such is a place where democracy can survive, do you ever care for your tax money.
For democracy to run peacefully, the past has to be forgot and the future has to be seen as bright, this can only be done when all of us think of a prosperous future, let the politicians fight, people of the yester era will be extinct soon, it is for people of our generation to set things right, think about it.
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ಕರ್ನಾಟಕ ಕಾವೇರಿ ನದಿ ಗೆ ಯಾವುದೇ ಹೊಸ ಯೋಜನೆ ಮಾಡೋಕ್ಕೆ ಹೊರಟ್ರೆ, ತಮಿಳುನಾಡು ಸಕಾರ ಅದಕ್ಕೆ ತಕರಾರು ತೆಗೆದು ಅದುನ್ನ ನಿಲ್ಲಿಸೋವರೆಗೂ ಬಿಡಲ್ಲಾ. ಹಾಗಾದ್ರೆ ನಾವು ಕೋರ್ಟ್ನ್ ನಲ್ಲಿುವ ಹೊಗೆನಕಲ್ಲು ನಲ್ಲಿ ನೀರಾವರಿ ಯೋಜನೆ ಶುರು ಮಾಡೋಕ್ಕೆ ಯಾಕೆ ಬಿಡಬೇಕು?
ಇಲ್ಲಿ ಒಂದು ವಿಷಯ ಗಮನಿಸಿ, ತಮಿಳುನಾಡು ಕಾವೇರಿ ನೀರಿಗಾಗಿ ಸುಪ್ರೀಮ್ ಕೋರ್ಟ್ ಗೆ ಸಲ್ಲಿಸಿರುವ ಮನವಿಯಲ್ಲಿ ಇದ್ದಷ್ಟು ನೀರನ್ನು ತನಗೆ ಕೊಡಲಿಲ್ಲ ಎಂದು ತನ್ನ ಅತೃಪ್ತಿ ವ್ಯಕ್ತಪಡಿಸಿ ಕೋರ್ಟ್ ಗೆ ಮೇಲ್ಮನವಿ ಸಲ್ಲಿಸುವುದಾಗ ಹೇಳಿತ್ತು, ಅವರು ಹೇಳಿರೋ ಪ್ರಕಾರ ಅವರಿಗೆ ಕೊಟ್ಟಿರೋ ನೀರಲ್ಲಿ(ಹೆಚ್ಚು ನೀರು) ಬದುಕಕ್ಕೆ ಆಗಲ್ಲ ತಮಗೆ ಇನ್ನೂ ಹೆಚ್ಚು ಬೇಕು ಎಂಬುದು,ಹಾಗದ್ರೆ ಅವರಿಗೆ ೪೦ ಲಕ್ಷ ಜನರಿಗೆ ಕುಡಿಯೋ ನೀರನ್ನ ಹೇಗೆ ತರ್ತಾರೆ? ತಮಗೆ ನೀರೇಯಿಲ್ಲ ಅಂತ ಹೇಳ್ತದ್ದವರು ಇವತ್ತು ನಾವು ನಮ್ಮ ಪಾಲಿನ ನೀರನ್ನೇ ಉಪಯೋಗಿಸ್ತಿವಿ ಅಂತ ಹೇಳಿದ್ರೆ ನಂಬಕ್ಕೆ ಆಗುತ್ತ?
ಒಂದು ಕಾವೇರಿ ನದಿ ನೀರಿಗಾಗಿ ಅವರು ಸುಪ್ರೀಮ್ ಕೋರ್ಟ್ ಗೆ ತಪ್ಪು ಮಾಹಿತಿ ಕೊಟ್ಟಿರ ಬಹುದು, ಇಲ್ಲಾ ತೀರ್ಪಿನಲ್ಲಿ ತಮ್ಮ ಅಧಿಕಾರ ಬಳಸಿರ ಬಹುದು ಅಥವಾ ಕನ್ನಡಿಗರನ್ನ ಕೆಣಕಬೇಕು, ನಂತರ ಇದನ್ನ ದೋಡ್ಡ ಘಟನೆ ತರ ಮಾಡಿ ತಮ್ಮ ರಾಜಕೀಯದ ಬೇಳೆ ಬೇಯಿಸಿಕೋಳ್ತಿದ್ದಾರೆ.
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Namma nELa, Namma jALa, BIDOO dikke Aagolla Swamee. Heege bittre, TN Namage thhoothu madake kottu, Mooru Tirupathi Naama haaki, Nammana Maataash Maadi biduthare…….. Hooshaaru
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KL:
I also know about the badugas in Ooty, I have friends there, go and see what kind of life they lead there, even for me it is a life I crave for, they get everything and they don’t lurk in fear, they have made it their home and baduga villages are actually 300 in number to be precise, go and ask a baduga how he feels and you will know they just enjoy, make merry, work and go to sleep, such simple people and if there were any history of the workings of Tamil Chauvinists there, I would have never been invited or I would have been looked upon like an alien and besides all these I would have never had a baduga friend, can you say something about it?
Ballad:
speaking about the Cauvery Tribunal verdict, for some reason they went beyond the folds of history to uncover pre-Independence era’s statistical document of how Tamil Nadu got more water.
Don’t you think we are looking at an independent India here? Any decisions done by the CENTRE OR SUPREME COURT should consider future goals of the country and not consider past irregularities.
By the way how are you so sure about the authenticity of the document?
Sorry friends, I feel I am writing way too much than what I should, but I can’t stand when you guys from this generation think like this, it is just my honest effort to curb a few negativities from this Earth.
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I just came across this blog accidentally. By going thru all the readers comments i could see the flared up passion among both tamils and kannadigas. I wish i can analyse with neutrality as i have stayed 1 year in chennai and 3.5 yrs in bangalore . Most of the chauvinistic arguments given by readers are unsubstantiated and figmented. It’s like rumour mongers having field day. I do believe Karnataka is on a sticky wicket here and trying to score some brownie points by settling unsettled past issues by masquerading under hogenakkal. The general perception about tamils not only in blr even in north is that they are chauvinists ,to some extent they are right as well. But when someone dig deep why they are the way people portray them?cOne can find an element of ignorance/innocence among major middle class. People in TN are brought up with high pride and strong identity more like french or jews. But contrary to people portrayal they never despise other languages or region they are more fond of them and curious to know abt them. Can you believe close to 40% of people as per 2001 census are telugus in chennai (as per census 2001 tamils constitute 42% in blr and kannagigas 38%) and close to 10 % are kerelites. The antagonism towards tamils in blr are more to do with economics than water or land. People want to check their business domination and under check and there’s no better trump card than regionalism. To be honest except against tamils on cauvery i have never seen kannada identity among kannadiga’s thats understandable as N.Canara consider themselves more as Marathi than local.Tulu and kodagu bearers never want to identify themselves with kannada.So there was never a patron among their own people to cultivate and rejuvenate kannada.Incidences like these help to reiterate kannada identity and bond people (more over vote bank poitics at its worst in action). But it would be just a flash in pan as general tendency within educated class is one bequeath their kannada identity and i feel that is their achilles heel.Unless it’s plugged with self belief and respect karnataka and for that matter kannada is fighting losing battle to survive.
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To start with, the issue is land. A “disputed land” that is Hogenakal; each state (KA or TN) believes belong to them in part or whole.
May be if the same project was built immediately after Hogenakal region, Karunanidhi’s stance that we have a “right” would have been of good reasoning. But that “right” and “NOC” he claims to have today, is not the same that JH Patel had in 1998. Because Patel had the right of ownership: everything from land where the water originated, it flowed through, and wanted to be reached (Bengaluru) in some measurement.
Now, if you are wondering from where did this WATER talks come about. Welcome to Part II—long standing cauvery-river-water-sharing-dispute between Tamil Nadu and Karnataka. She (cauvery), who’s even here, meanders through the rocky terrains of Hogenakal adding beauty! And she is also a property of a certain tribunal that is dealing with the dispute.
So neither Karunanidhi nor Karnataka rightly own cauvery, according to tribunal. That apart his ownership (or TN’s) of Hogenakal (the part where the water is drawn from) is also at stake. And he needs to prove himself on both counts. An effort, it seems, he gracefully wished to shrug off during the government-less days of KA.
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Battles of the twenty-first century will be over oil as well as water. Hogenakallu is a manifestation of that universal trend.
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“You may not know about history from your comment and you may not know Sarfoji Maharaj, marathi rulers and soldiers who took shelter in tamilnadu from aurangazeb.”
roflolz. nice spin you give to history! serfoji maharaj and the marathi rulers didnt “took shelter in tamilnadu from aurangazeb” damn it.. They ruled Tamilnadu (Tanjore)!!! Do you get it? THEY ruled YOU. YOU did not give them protection! LOLz.
The last time kongas ruled themselves before independence was nearly a 1000 years ago. And even before that the greatest konga dynasties were ruled langoti agala kingdoms which werent a patch on the expanses and achievements of the Kannada empires.
But for the Hakka, Bukka, Kampana… TN would today have been southern Pakistan (on the lines of Bangladesh). It was the Vijayanagara chiefs who came and opened the temples in interior tamil nadu which the muslims had closed. In hindsight, they shouldnt have bothered. A Pakistan or a Bangladesh across the border is infinitely more trustworthy than a Tamil Nadu.
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Sisya,
your wish is already fulfilled. Northern karnataka is already taken over by pakistan. You will see the effects of it in few years.
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I dont see Tamil Nadu having issues except for the LTTE .In any case they pertain to Sri Lanka.But in this great state of Karnataka , We see that the people of North Karnataka often ask for seperate statehood , as they have been neglected completely by the powers to be.Coorg is also facing similar problems.Naxalism is growing in Shimoga Chickamangalur and neighbouring districts.Bellary is TELUGU nadu and the writ of the KRV the saviour of Kannadigas do not hold in that place.Belgaum is facing issues with Maharashtra.It is time the state is split up ( Uttar Pradesh , Bihar , Madhya Pradesh ) have all seen splits sucessfully.If this is done , the PRIDE of KANNADA NADU would be HURT .The cheap hooligans who attack Tamilians would be also shown their place.
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arun,
again bullshit statics? who said that tamils outnumber kannadigas in bangalore? If they did why do they fear a lot when any riot takes place?Do you want me to say that tamils are actually very soft people? Except Iyengaars who are culturally better other caste tamilians are ruthless when it comes in domination.
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Battle is yet to start.Karnataka is completing all the irrigation projects for its alloted quota for its major rivers like Krishna,tungabhadra and Kaveri.
After that starts real battle when karnataka will put its hand into illegal irrigation projects.Just wait for that.
War will start then.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chola.
Take a look. If you go back in history everyone has ruled every other part. So where do we start and where do we stop.
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dumbo,
when karu kicks the bucket,PMK will have a vanniya nadu.
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sano,
reserve your preachings about future prosperity to PMK,kalaignar and the thugs who attacked the kannada sangha school in TNagar.
Let me make clear that i abhor violence.Blood makes me sick.What about the violence in the hearts and words of tamil fanatics like kalaignar and his mouthpiece veerasamy.Are you pretending that veerasamy has nothing to do with kalaignar.The violence in the hearts of PMK thugs.Baduga tea growers were stripped and humiliated by TN police during the earlier DMK regime.Kannadigas are scared to even identify themselves in chennai.
The tamils are not lynching kannadigas,because they will get the same treatment in bengaluru and there are far more tamils in bengaluru.The tamils even run engineering colleges in bengaluru.
Nagesh,
you have nothing to worry.Just keep to known persons.Whatever sano or johann might say this has nothing to do with tolerance.There are more tamils in bengaluru.
arun,
there is truth in your comments about kannada identity.
captain johann,
So many people want to live in bengaluru for some reason or other.Because they know it is hospitable.MGR is reviled by tamil nationalists.He was needed then by thevars,gounders and vanniars to counterveil the vellala karunanidhi.Now that these communities have come up they have no need for jaya either.Rajni is hated by DMK,PMK and other tamil nationalists.Sir,You are completely out of touch with tamil reality.
We are all participating in this blog about mysore and other things only because of the liberal nature of the kannadigas. Can you think of any other place where outsiders can listen and participate in the debate? Of course,there were cultural factors as well in the evolution of intellectual life in mysore.
The root problem is the nature of the political and intellectual class in TN,the favours they enjoyed during british rule,the fact karnataka was short changed in the years after independence.Though the unification of karnataka was a blessing,kannadigas had to contend with the powerful madras presidency,numerically larger andhras and the much bigger and powerful maharashtra.All the other dravidian people were numerically larger and had better dexterity in dealing with delhi.Also all these people were residing in karnataka as well.
One cannot change history and geography.But karnataka has to deal with the konga threat first.There has to be finesse in its approach. While dealing with kongas, unwittingly mallus or telugus and northies might cash in. Hopefully,Iswara will be kind and help in the creation of telengana.
The issue is not drinking water for dharmapuri or krishnagiri. It is survival of karnataka. Karnataka is like india in a geo-political sense. Just as india is surrounded by hostile pak,china and bangladesh,karnataka is confronted by civilisational hostility.
Karnataka-the land of kishkinda,asokan inscriptions,jain renunciates,aihole,rashtrakuta empire(with pandharpur the genesis of maharashrian culture), basava, sringeri, ramanuja (who found refuge from chola oppression), madhva, vijayanagar, chandra, prasanna, science city the flagbearer of the hindu tradition in the south cannot be left to the tender mercies of barbarians.
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@hinfinity – Why are you not commenting on more than 40 lawyers
ransacking Kannada hotel in chennai attacking farm house of Actor Vishnu vardhan , ransacking many Karnataka buses in TN ?.
You should be telling other way round why TN always bullies and lobbies its peace loving and peace ful neighbouring states. If you have so much
concern for Tamilians then its better you pack your bag and baggage to TN. We are over floded with many outsiders and we cant lose our sleep and peace for you guys.
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@sano – If you see the contry as one , and Kannadigas were never in
trouble in Chennai then what do you have to say for hotels, farmhouses of kannadigas being attacked in Chennai ?.
Why TN opposed the “Kalasa Banduri” project. And that too K’taka
was using its own water ?.
All historical evidences show that (Infact very name suggests) that
Hogannekkal belongs to Karnataka. And its really big shame that
TN as usually playing its dirty politics to get the things done. Everybody knows now TN is only upto playing dirty games and politics. Which it cant get in a justified manner.
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Even DB has admitted that the tamil worker is harmless.But we are talking here about identity,power politics,tamil ‘classicists’ contempt for karnataka.This is the age of mass media and mass mobilisation.And also mass literacy.
The issue has nothing to do with drinking water.The kannadigas must be ready.I believe kannadigas should use cauvery as a bargaining chip so that tamils cede forests and land to karnataka.
I know i might sound lunatic when karnataka has problems with maharashtra.We cannot raise or settle border issues on blogs.There is the danger of balkanisation and one spark can lead to forestfire of violence.The minorities in both states will pass through hell.The gains might be minimal and the stakes and threats too high.But karnataka should have a bargaining chip.
The rest of india might support karnataka too as it will clip the wings of tamil nationalism.This might make the tamils understand the ethical-ecological basis of hindu nationalism.
Today the cardboard heroes of kollywood raised the spectre of tamil secession in chennai.For the first time,i have developed respect for kamal.He spoke sensibly.He spoke as an indian.
Rajni caught in an impossible situation spoke in a politically correct ways.The poor tamil,those who have not developed political consciousness,cheered rajni after a stream of tamil demogoguery.
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Thank you, KL. I think unwittingly ole Karu has united Kannadigas by his ‘sweet’ comments. Although we have no representative government today, all right thinking Kannadigas have realized the need of the hour–to fight for what is rightfully theirs!
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You guys are in the mystical and never ending realm of rajas and ranis. I can’t do anything about it.
I can pray to God that you never end up like Chandramuki dreaming of history.
God Save the world.
I am leaving this blog as I have better work to do.
Thanks for all your replies.
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Prabhu,son of the legendary actor Sivaji,spoke in glowing terms about kannadigas even amidst so much hatred.He attributed the violence to a few miscreants.
Kamal Haasan distanced himself from the hatred .He bravely asserted that we were all monkeys before the invention of languages and remarked nothing seems to have changed.
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Looking at the comments, I want to offer some rejoinders.
1. As a Tamil, I condemn the attack on Kannadiga hotels in Chennai, stoning of Karnataka buses etc. Infact I’m bewildered that such practices mostly unused in even bigger controversies between Karnataka and TN, have cropped up now.
2. I also feel the Tamil movie industry is being irresponsible in organizing fasts etc. They might claim that they are only responding to unnecessary attacks on cinema halls screening Tamil movies in Bengaluru. But they are being very cheap making a mountain out of a mole.
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Dear KL,
“somany people want to live in Bangalore for various reasons”.basically you are saying, whatever reason may be Non/kannadigas must not live in bangalore. I wish you have said the same to me when i was in border of J&K, infact at 15,000 feet at chushul or at Assam,Arunachal pradesh that you being a tamil must go to chennai only and must not serve in kashmir or arunachal pradesh?
In tamilnadu, there is Brahmin hatred as i have seen Bengali hatred in Assam,orissa,gujerathi hatred in mumbai and now i see Tamils are hatred in Mysore and water is just an issue to show this hatred whenever there is an opportunity. Logic /truth will not work here where emotions are involved
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Rightly said KL:
My guru always says “In the sway of emotions intelligence does not work”.
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Sorry I meant captainjohann, I am not joining the arguments but I am listening though.
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Captain johann,
I am a tamil.Who am I to stop anyone from staying in bangalore.Even more i am an indian,i fully believe that every indian has the right to live anywhere in india.
Sir,
You are an army officer.You should be respected everywhere.If i have hurt you,i beg your pardon.
I am physically not very strong.Why should you who have fought for people like me in the snowy heights ,even care for my views.
I am saying kannadigas are basically good people.They are being exploited.In Majestic,you will find hundreds of buses from kanyakumari,nagercoil,madurai,nagapattinam,pondicherry,madras,salem,coimbatore.A few KSRTC buses ply from bengaluru to TN.Thousands of tamils come by the trains.
Kannadigas are badmouthed.Their name and image is tarnished.We want an india where everyone feels at home.Kannadigas are afraid to identify themselves in madras.
As an army officer,can you see the parallels with bangladesh and pakistan(where the minorities are invisible).Satyaraj’s speech was full of hatred for karnataka.
Are all states equally hospitable.The stability of a nation ultimately depends on the civil society.Kannadigas in the bangalore region are yearning for space.The central govt has to reach out the kannadigas who feel threatened that others are not reciprocating because the others are not sharing the same values.Do we not have the same fear with pakistan?
I am exaggerating but the similarities cannot be overlooked.
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I want to make a clear difference between the tamil(including those who are proud of its unique literary tradition) and the sub-species-the konga.
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I think there should be clarity in the objections raised to the project.
The lack of it is glaring if you look at the newspaper reports. No one seems to be taking about the real issues.
1) TN has not shared the project report. This in itself is heights of arrogance. All the parties are required to do this without exceptions.
2) The Hogenakal/Bangalore drinking water projects were cleared by the previous governments. Hence TN is free to take up the drinking water project.
3) The real objection is if TN wants to build a dam and generate power. This was not in the original proposal. It looks as though TN wants to squeeze these things under the carpet by making loud noises which they are really good at.
I think the people who are protesting should say this loudly as others may mistake that the people of Karnataka are objecting to drinking water projects and therefore inhuman….
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Guys
Its so unfortunate to a read a post like this! So, are we aiming at who is a better diplomatic, decent enough people. A kannadiga or a Tamil?After all we all are indians, why fight for a natural resource like water? Karnataka has no right on cauvery or hogenakal. God gifted cauvery in karnataka just hoping that kannadigas would share it. What did we tamils do for few in this forum to mention that we language chavinistc people..and very very arrogant pople? Please guys, I’m a tamilian and I lived in bangalore for five years. Every year..as a diwali or christmas, getting cauvery issue and torturing tamils have become a routine scene in karnataka? Why? Do you know the pain of all tamil familes in karnataka? A mom waiting for his kid out of school and husband waiting for his wife out of work is all pain guys. What did tamilians do? We are asking for water? Anything more? Dharmapuri and krishnagiri is full of flouride guys..there is no scope of water in those areas? Its absurd on karnataka’s part to say that karnataka patents cauvery. Rubbish! In a independant india, we need to beg for even water.
KL, I saw couple of your posts. Can you give us few valid reasons for describing tamilians a threats? What did we threaten you on? Are u a coward to get threatened by truth? Who told tamilians showed seperatism?Dig more in our politics and cinema to see what positions kannadigas, malayalees and telugites hold here. Its very disappointing to see such words Mr KL. Actually its the other way round. Karnataka dont host tamil films. Karnataka tourtures Tamilians. Karnataka bans all tamil channels in bangalore. But how can you say that tamilians are showing seperatism? Mr. KL, think broad! You are having a wrong perspective of tamilians. Please change it.
KL, please show some humanism. Then indianism. And then your kannadiga’ism. Water is universal dude. Learn to share it first!
I love karnataka people, their culture and the way they treat others! My post here described, how humane a human should be. I got strongly disappointed by KL’s words expressing tamilians. Aren’t we all brothers and sisters? Wouldnt you share a cup of water with brother when he is thirsty? I’m feeling ashamed to have a begging tone here, though its my right to take it!. Its my india and being a tamilian I have alright to take water from karnataka.
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Great arguments and counter arguments!
Let us pray to the almighty God to give us a statesman who could unite us all. As we were divided we lost our lands in the form of invasion, occupation, conversion and in the form of pakistan, Bangladesh etc…Blood has flown in our peace loving country and at last we are united for the last 60 years… In this regard i really thank british( patel) for uniting us for what we are seeign now.
Please dont let the Karu , nagraj or other perver to take control of our emotions and ruin us.
Every state has its share of woes with regard to teritorial claims
madras should have been in Andhra, thirupathi in TN and Kanyakumari in Kerala.. The North east wants to be seprated..
SO what friends we are in one country and let us cherish the feeling of being Indian…
Let us look at things positively, Dharamapuri and Krishnagiri needs drinking water and it is for extremely poor people, alas what harm did they do except being poor.. Madras or bangalore will find new resources for water with money. un like this poor districts..
Finally let our Central Goverment wake and crush this dangerous regional sentiments which in the long run shall devastate everyone..
If we dont remove the enemy within us very soon like the Vattal nagraj, karu, raj thackeray.. friends we will become what many countries wants divided and perished…
I hope the central goverment wakes up and nationalisies all river
electricity and perhaps the police so that people could execute thier duties justly..Let people get the mindset to accept verdicts and set high goals for culture.
Jai Hind.
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Dear All ,
I am 100% Tamil and I have lived in Bangalore for 2 years . I love Kannada more than any of the Indian languages . If I say that people will laugh at me . I dont know how to speak kannada but I still love hearing it . Now , We all are good people . Especially the kannadigas , I prefer to have friendships with kannadigas over any other community people . Their heart is clean , that is why politicians are able to mis use them.
Keep your language and religion at your home . In public , we are all indians .
Jai Hind !
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Annai Selvan,
You lived in bangalore for 2 years and you love kannada more than any other indian langauge but you cant speak kannada….what do we make out of this statement
:)
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Good arguments….. but feels that…….
TN….disguising itself in to COW after doing evrything over dacades.
till,he peopel lik Sano….exist TN shows it’s real culture…..supress all others……and finaly beg others for waters.
Long live “Kannada”nadu…..the land of extreme tolarace….
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