T.J.S. George, the editorial of the New Indian Express, asked in his weekly column ‘Point of View‘ recently: “In the ageless tussle between Brahminic Hinduism and its challengers, is the balance tipping in favour of Brahminism again?
K.B. Ganapathy responds thus in Star of Mysore:
“After visiting a few important Hindu temples in the South recently, I am inclined to believe that the balance is indeed tipping in favour of Brahminism. And I am also inclined to believe that if Hinduism is to be saved, it is possible only if it has the patronage and protection from Brahminism. After all, Hinduism minus Brahminism is like a body without a soul.
“To the hardware of Hinduism, Brahminism provides the software that ignites spiritualism among all the followers of Hinduism irrespective of caste, creed and the individual religious rituals. It could be animistic or nature worship where meat and liquor are also offered after animal sacrifice to appease a deity.”
Also read: Meet India’s newest toilet cleaners: the Brahmins
Never quite top of the heap, now even lower
Just 4% of the population, but 7 Brahmins in Indian team
Link via Nikhil Moro
churumuri 
This Ganapthy guy desperately wants to drag us centuries back.
Then he may be able to enjoy the privileges of ‘Bhoo Devtas’ and treat the lower caste (read majority) as worms.
Any one who has read ‘Manusmrithi’ will never agree with Mr.Ganapathy’s Argument. Brahmanism has done enough damage to our society.
Due to the harm it had created, we are still struggling to move to the 21st century and keep up with rest of the world.
For Gods sake please spare us Mr. Ganapathy …
LikeLike
I am Brahmin, without me there is no Hinduism, I feel great !!
LikeLike
brahmins are also part of our life.I respect them,if hinduism requires brahminism let it be.
LikeLike
Brahmins are not locals in the first place. They are the virus from Central Asia and Iran who infiltrated into Indian society a long time ago. These thousands of years they have lived off other sections of the land in true virus style, dividing people along caste lines and keeping the top post in the heap for themselves. Hinduism is at best a feudal religion created by brahmins. These people have manipulated and harvested the rest of the people for their own benefit. If brahminism grows only the brahmins will get fatter. hinduism is not just brahmins. it is far too diverse than the sanskrit murmuring nonsense of the vedas and upanishads.
LikeLike
sumkirla in english,
I agree. So what if hinduism requires brahminism for its existence. Let them be part of it as well.
LikeLike
Vaneeshk,
Congrats, you are now part of the group of the endangered people who have read the book called Manusmrithi. I am sure no one gives a damn for that book or follows that book. So, you can be proud of the fact that you are one of them.
So, since Brahminism has created enough troubles, what is the way forward sir? Murder them and loot them. Or, make them the new untouchables? Or do we move along with “them” inclusively?
LikeLike
Is Brahminism different from Castiesm or the same ? If its yes, then I don’t think author is correct here. It was same castiesm which almost wiped out hinduism last time during resurgence of jainism & buddism. We no longer have guys like shankara to resurrect hinduism, if it happens again.
LikeLike
Hi SumneNeeve,
I am v. happy to know that nobody care about the book Manusmrithi even though it was the official penal code of ancient India.
Now you know, if you utter a single line from that you may be considered insane. ( but still I am sure you may find some followers also).
” So, since Brahmanism has created enough troubles, what is the way forward sir? Murder them and loot them. Or, make them the new untouchables? Or do we move along with “them” inclusively? ”
Please note I have opposed Brahmanism not Brahmins.
To survive Brahmanism requires a caste system. Without caste system it can’t establish itself as the upper one.
I suggest you to go for a long drive to the villages of India (Cow belt may give a better picture), where around 85% Indians are living. See the traces of the class system and its impact on people even at this century and have a rational thought on the subject. (only if you consider this people as your fellow citizens).
LikeLike
Extravagant,
You have bought the idea what britishers really wanted to sell to divide Indians…
And then what the authors says is that spiritual nature of hindusim and the structure. Author does not support any high handedness what so ever that has been demonstrated.
LikeLike
Brahminism (way-of-life) and Brahmin (caste) are two different things. Further, Brahminism and religious practices (different poojas, customs etc. being practiced today) are also different. So, please DO NOT equate Brahmin, Current Religios Practices and Brahmin. They all are very different.
Many people don’t understand fine-prints/differences between spiritualism and religion either.
Brahminism = about complete life style (continous learning/knowledge expansion, understanding self and how you treat other people, food, sleep, preserving body and whole lot of stuff).
Originally (don’t go back 50 years, 100 years, 500 years, go back far more), everyone who lived “Brahminism way” was considered as Brahmin. Not decided at birth. Similaraly, other “Classes”. We should try to “question and improve on continous basis” and should not mark something as “Final” with very limited knowledge/awareness.
Irrespective of caste, country, religion etc., Brahminism is very valuable for mankind and we should preserve that way of living.
Some modern day misunderstandings (???)
– Every one who studied engineering can become great software engineer
– All IIT-guys are intelligent
– Intelligent = Excellent in Math+Science (what a narrow way of thinking!!!)
LikeLike
Vaneeshk
There was no “official penal code” in India. Manusmirthi seems to be some book. Unfortunately some intellectuals got hold of it and made a big deal of it. If it was really the official code book, then I would wonder why did it suddenly recede back into oblivion in the last 60 years.
Btw, what is “official” in hinduism (or ancient India, considering that India existed for less than 100 years). Who decides it?
LikeLike
ramu has hit the naill…
When krishna said about castes in Bhagavadgeetha, he meant to divide people on the basis of their work, one who does carpentry is a carpentar, one fights in war is a warrior, simillarly there are certain requirements to be met to be classified as a brahmin, “any one who satisfies these requirements are brahmins” it is not bcoz some one is a son a brahmin that he also automatically becomes a brahmin. try and think in before discarding any theory or practise.
LikeLike
Pampa the adikavi of Kannada was a jain of Brahmin Ancestry and wrote the pampa ramayana. So much for the theories about pre brahmin glory.
LikeLike
I agree to that.
How can you relate to Christianity minus the “Pope”, Vatican, and priests.
How can you relate to Islam without the Maulvis, who officiate for various events?
Are Brahmins not a similar setup in Hinduism?
Why only say that Brahmins are causing harm to hinduism, while there is no prejudice to Priests in other religions?
LikeLike
Vaneeshk!
hmm… :O
What does it say, saar?
Which edition did you read? Who’s published it? Abridged or unabridged?
LikeLike
Brahminic Hinduism?
Brahminism , the software?
Hinduism tipping towards Brahminism?
Softwares need analysis and upgradation for growth and is being upgraded continuously.
Hinduism once was the exclusive domain of the Brahmins, is it still so?
How the Brahminic dominance is observed to be on the resurgence?
Why is it thought to be indispensible?
What is the relation between Brahminic Hinduism and present day Brahmin community?
Is it not true that this Brahminic Hinduism was the sole reason for the economic and social backwardness that India suffered for centuries?
LikeLike
I think both T.J.S. George and Ganapathy are wrong. It is not Brahminism which is taking place. It is another social phenomena observed by the eminent Indian sociologist, M.N.Srinivas called Sanskritization.
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskritisation )
And it is inevitable. As more and more people join middle class, There would be more signs of Sanskritization in the society.
Movies + Television are major sources for such change.
Mark my words..In future, Those in the middle layers of the caste hierarchy would be the ones who would become “over the top” Hindus and celebrate their way of life with gusto.
Also because of curious turn of events, Dalits and Brahmins would form political alliance (please note that I have written Dalits & Brahmins and not Brahmins & Dalits. It is because most of the political power would be in the hands of Dalits)
We live in extra ordinary times. Massive social churning is taking place right in front of our eyes. One can always say(and is true) that those in the lower rung of the heirachy are still not benefiting from this process, but the fact is that the direction is clearly in that way.
LikeLike
T J S George’s column doesn’t appear on Sundays in The New Indian Express now. More to it than what meets the eye?
LikeLike
One thing is true Brahminism is the only way..There cannot be a society without hierarchy.. Can anybody name one society where there’s no hierarchy?? In this aspect nobody can challenge hinduism because the religion understood the fact that a non hierarchical society cannot exist and it’s it’s only a myth that socialism is the answer to all our problems!!
LikeLike
KK,
As long as social stratification is not rigid ( which did happen in India in the past) people will not have problems.
The trick is to devise a system in which people move up or down *solely* based on their merit rather than birth. Obviously 100% of such ideal society is not possible, but west, particularly US have succeeded in large extent. Our goal should also be the same.
============
One more point. There seem to be a misunderstanding that Brahmins are sole guardians of Hinduism. It is utterly false. Hinduism would not have survived for centuries if people across the land had not embraced, nurtured and zealously guarded it.
LikeLike
Extravagant,
I would say this whole theory of Dravidians and Aryans and other migrants is all hum bug. Even today I doubt there is conclusive proof that someone migrated from yonder to India and occupied the Dravidian land !! Time you educated yourself a bit…
As far as I know Dravidian in these Cricketing Days means only one thing: Loser.
Dravidian: Any one in Dravid’s team. And Dravid’s team losing is a rule than an exception. So anyone in Dravid’s team is a loser :D
Hence Dravidian = Loser :D
LikeLike
Poverty and Brahmin are always asociated and they are a dying lot like Dynosaurs that roamed and and somebody thought that Manusmrithi was about them and that dessimated them whereas it was a grand fiction and from that time onwards it has come to haunt them and they are blamed for everything to cover the rot that has set in others. Brahmins serve as catharisis for others to peg the blame on. They have always suffered and will continue to suffer till becoming extinct and why debate on such trifles that can be stamped underfoot by anybody and everybody. They live a virtual life like in WII game and not a real one.
LikeLike
It is high time the Bramhins came out of the Hindu fold and declare themselves as a new religion. Since they are in the minority, they could also demand for minority status/rights a la the followers of religion of pisss/and religion of love
:)
LikeLike
Dear H.R.Bapu Satyanaryana,
Evolution is brutally darwinian. If people can not adapt to the changing circumstances, they will perish. Self pity is not going to help.
In fact despite the poverty, Brahmins still have a lot of social capital where as Dalits neither have money, nor social capital (they have started gaining social capital just recently).
The best course of action for Brahmins would be
1) Do not bother about political power. You just don’t have numbers.
2) Unless you are a super brilliant student, do not bother with higher studies. Although schooling is absolute must.
3) Do not bother about Govt. jobs. In fact reservations in Govt jobs is a blessing in disguise for Brahmins. It has forced them into private sector.
4) Get into entrepreneurship. All companies do not require massive investments. Say what is stopping some one to start a udipi kind of restaurant??
5) Create Pan India Brahmin association which provides financial assistance to poor Brahmins to start small businesses.
6) Cultivate social relations with all other castes. Sulking and bitching about others and wallowing in self pity will not help. The best insurance is winning over other castes rather than hating.
===============
If Brahmins who are “supposedly” smart people perish like dinosaurs, they would only have to blame themselves.
LikeLike
TJSJ EnaMda?… KBG.. EnaMda?.. ivarella En maataaDtidare?
LikeLike
HRBS,
‘somebody thought that Manusmrithi was about them and that dessimated them whereas it was a grand fiction’
Its ‘manusmrithi’ that advocated the social discrimination of the castes and posted Brahmins on top of that. And it was a fiction?
Dear HRBS, like some fiction or mythology that caught the imagination of the peopel, a section of the society adopted it as the statutes of the society and enforced it ruthlessly to their advantage.
‘they are blamed for everything to cover the rot that has set in others.’
Yes, obviously,the social discrimination was the root cause of all that economic and social backwardness India suffered and still suffering.
‘They have always suffered and will continue to suffer’
Sorry, didn’t grasp it well. Where did this happen? in India? Sorry, HRBS, it is not what we understand from our readings.
When other caste wake up and revolt, Brahmins feel they are suffering, right? (Because they lose the ‘taken for granted’ rights and privileges).
‘Rajas’ do not exist anymore to bestow ‘goodies’ for singing ‘raja prathyaksha daivatham’..right?
LikeLike
Hi Odd Man Out
The modern world as we know today started with the enlightenment movement in europe. Until 100 years ago, Every single place in the world was feudal and those who are in the bottom of the hierarchy have suffered.
Please take a look at the following links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_India
There are a lot of cultures/civilizations/regions/religions all over the world including India which have committed atrocities against fellow human beings.
It is not to absolve some one or other from shameful behavior. Its simply hypocrisy to say that only Brahmins are responsible for all the atrocities committed in India all the time. Is it not true that Other Forward castes, Backward castes have also oppressed dalits? Is it not true that Muslims have sold a large number of Indians as slaves?
Why not hold the above groups also responsible? If your argument is that Brahmins have “created” the system hence all the blame should go exclusively to them, then what about Muslims? surely they have not followed manu smriti.
Is there any specific suggestions that you can make which can help bridge the inter caste gaps?
Surely you would also accept that holding this generation of Brahmins for what was done 1000 years ago is not fair.
LikeLike
“If Brahmins who are “supposedly” smart people perish like dinosaurs, they would only have to blame themselves”
How says Brahmins are moving towards extinction.They are politcally marginalised. Down but not out is what I can say.
The Brahmin middle class are the most upwardly mobile in India. The only places where the Brahmins are denied entry is the Government Jobs. The private sector has come to the rescue of Brahmins. Brahmins should hope that the Government machinery shrinks considerably in the coming years (of course the key functions – police, administration etc ) will be with the government. But with the liberalised economy the private sector lobbies can influence government decisions considerably and it is here the Brahmins can weild their power.
The reservations in the educational sector has been decimated by the influx of Capitation Fee and Caste and Minority institutes. Guess who created the first capitation fee college in India – Mr T.A. Pai – a gowd saraswat brahmin from Udupi. In Karnataka reservation in medical and engineering colleges are meaningless as there are too many of these colleges owned by vokkaliga and lingayaths in which Brahmins can gain entry into. The reservation system has not had much impact on Brahmins other than on marginal cases.
Brahmins have suffered in places where they continue old occupations as poor priests in muzarai temples. The temples owned by private trusts are rich and has devotees from all sections of Hindu Soceity. Brahmin priests should note this and concentrate on the slow death of Muzrai temples. Just visit any of the historical temples and you will find they are so pathetically managed (Ex: Nanjangud Nanjundeshwara,Banawasi Temple etc..). The Hindu temples have a seductive appeal to the masses and Brahmin intellegentia can capitalize on setting up Temples with cosmopolitan appeal and which has no restriction towards any of the market segment (read castes). This is already being done in many places if you care to see. There are very many dalits, vokalligas and lingayaths who commission Brahmins to do their Homas, satyanarayana pujas, puraskaras and thithis. I don’t think this is not going to stop or reduce in the near future. I know of even a prominent Dalit Neo-Buddhist politician and Businessman who spends quite a lot on Yajnas.
The other aspect is globalized sanskritization/Brahminization. Vedanta and Yoga across the world have a seductive appeal and an oppurtunity for market capitalization. Our Gurus (mostly Brahmins- with a universal appeal) leave no stone unturned to capitalize on the international market in these areas. And what comes from abroad will always have more appeal in India. Sris Sris, Baba Ramdevs, Maharishis and the other swamis are too cosmopolitan for sub-altern writers to even recognize. All these subaltern and commie writers can do is dish out pages and pages of anti Brahmin stuff – manusmrithi et all, while the brahmin Gurus share limelight internationally with pop stars, top businessmen and politicians.
However there are many things that needs to be done. Brahmins should unite pan-nationally and form an national society of Brahmins. They would be quite a force with 4% of Indias population. Probably the biggest monolothic indian community.Brahmins should build pan national cooperative banks and other networks.
The Dalits and OBCs for example is an artificial construct which contains many many thousands of castes who have no similarity between themselves. The dalit unity or the OBC unity and all that stuff is a big sham which will be exposed soon. The dalits like say the madigas in karnataka or the mahars in maharashtra or gujars in UP – what do they have in common. The madigas were scavengers, mahars worked in the british army as sepoys and the Gurjars were violent dactiots. These political factions are shortlived new constructs which will be decimated in the caste couldron of Indian politics.
The subaltern Dalits intellectuals bemoan that Hindutwa is a Brahmin construct but they fail to realize that if this were the case it was for the good of the Hindu soceity as Hindutwa ideology dismissed caste barrirs. If Hindutva is destroyed Brahmins would again raise in prominance. There are many other goodies they have up their sleeve.
LikeLike
Correction:
“They would be quite a force with 4% of Indias population. Probably the biggest monolothic indian community”
Biggest Monolithic Hindu Community.
LikeLike
brothers,
we have been fighting brahmins over few decades,leave them alone.They know how to live!
LikeLike
SM,
Why does the Nehru clan resemble Iran’s Khomeni more than Duniya Vijay? Does Mayawati and Jayalalitha look similar except in their size? If you search for proof of Aryans only in history written by RSS workers, you will not find it. Do you know which people in the world apart from the so called upper castes in India and the dead nazis call themselves aryans? the iranians. please educate yourself a lot. not a bit. a little learning, as they say, is a dangerous thing.
LikeLike
1) All these rancorous anti-Brahmins forget that the so-called evils of caste could not have been enforced were it not for the enthusiastic participation of the other castes.. Brahmins simply did not and have not the numbers. But they make great whipping boys for the moronically bellicose and ignorant Periyar and Mayavati types.
2) Some of the most popular traditional Brahminical names are those of non-Brahmins: Rama and Krishna (in its various synonyms).
3) Re the Manusmriti, how many Hindus, Brahminical or otherwise, have even seen a copy or have a copy in their homes or read it or quote from it? What they do have and read and quote from, to whatever extent, is the Bhagavad Gita or the Ramayana or the Mahabharata.
4) Concerning the colonialist Aryan Invasion Theory, even its commie propagandisers like Romila Thapar have had to retreat before the evidence and re-name it the Aryan Migration Theory! But then, commies and the anti-Brahmins have never been troubled by evidence nor distinguished themselves in evidential reasoning. For a balanced and detailed account of this Aryan invasion conspiracy, see http://www.scribd.com/doc/124097/Update-on-the-AIT by the scholar Koenraad Elst. It is very curious how so many western scholars begin with the assumption that there MUST have been an “Aryan” “invasion” and then try to substantiate their prejudices. The anti-Brahmins are too lazy or incompetent to think out matters for themselves.
5) If India has always compelled respect from the rest of the world from ancient times, one of the primary reasons is the profound and universal “Brahminical” philosophy and “Brahminical” learning. If India has survived as a cultural entity, it’s because this canon was heroically preserved by Brahmins against stupendous odds. Otherwise this country would have long gone the way of Indonesia or Pakistan or the Philippines etc. and Periyar’s beard would have been a mullah’s beard.
6) Finally, I advise the “anti-Brahmins” not to saw off the branch on which they are squatted. They may wish to acquaint themselves with the actual evidence by interacting with shastrarthas (trained expositors) and improving their individual and collective standards of scholarship.
LikeLike
I am glad that my comments provoked certain interesting comments and I wonder whether anybody could discern the import of Dinosaurs and dissemination but let it pass. Let me unequivocally say I agree with Ganapathy and Brahmins are here to stay and have a say whether it is temporal , religious or otherworldly because they are everywhere for they are a state of mind transending caste , sect and religion I am not apologetic about it for Brahminism whatever others say or cast aspersions is destined to transcend the narrow boundaries of excluvism and is noble in its sweep for it is built on enduring values of toleranace ,compassion and love.
LikeLike
Chanakya,
On your response to KK….just one word “UTOPIA”…remember that? And, you think US has succeeded to a “large extent”. Hmmm….I can’t see it.
But, I do agree with you that self-pity is not gonna work anywhere. If at all, it’s really the arrogance which is the ultimate winner.
LikeLike
December,
I have mentioned in the same post that US has succeeded to a large extent. Not 100%. And I believe it is true (at least in the last 50 years :-) ). I am aware of the intra racial issues between whites and non whites.
Did you read my other two posts?? I think that smartness is what is going to help rather than arrogance.
LikeLike
Smartness will take you to the end line. Arrogance will help you cross it.
No, I have no intentions of crossing that line, Yep, I am a loser ;)
LikeLike
Brahmins are survivors. If label A becomes a liability, find another one. That’s what most communities do anyway. Brahminism is more fluid than we think.
As for the original post, Brahminism is just another aspect of Hinduism. I don’t think it is any more important to or representative of the religion than any other.
LikeLike
In Pakisthan and Bangladesh most of the Mullahs pride themselves of their Brahmin Ancestry. Worst comes to worst if the Dalits and OBCs sell themselves to the Mullahs and Missionaries, Brahmins would get converted and become pastors and qazis. It doen’t take much to learn by rote the Bible and Quran and guide the religious congregation especially when you and your ancestors have been memorizing the Vedas, Smirthis and Puranas.
LikeLike
Chanakya,
‘Every single place in the world was feudal and those who are in the bottom of the hierarchy have suffered.’
‘There are a lot of cultures/civilizations/regions/religions all over the world including India which have committed atrocities against fellow human beings.’
I fully agree with you. The rest of the world grew out of it over the centuries, but only in India it evolved into an obnoxious caste system and the relics of that decadent culture spilled over into the 21st century and it is amply visible on every other street of our Mysore, not just in Saraswathipuram alone. This state suffers from that casteist mentality and that is the only reason why the saffron brigade wants to make Karnataka as their headquarters in the South.
LikeLike
Vile, obnoxious remarks, even in these pages, about some of the great souls of that community, who tried to expose and correct it through their writings are proof enough of that decadence surviving even today.
The Laws of Manu -‘manusmrithi’ -Penguin Classics- published 1991-translated by Wendy Doniger with Brian K. Smith ISBN 0-14-044540-4
LikeLike
Linking brahminism and poverty doesnt make sense. Most Indians were/are poor. A few Indians from any number of castes are rich. The rest or not. Romanticizing poverty is stupid.
I agree with Hayagrivachar that if brahmins want to organize themselves into a more coherent group, all power to them. As long as they use the group for self-help and betterment as opposed having some hidden agenda to reinstate the obnoxious caste system. In this time and age, smaller groups controlling the population using divisive caste system and superstitions wont work anyway. If you dont count politicians as one caste that is.
LikeLike
Antinatter,
‘rancorous’ ‘moronically bellicose’ ‘ignorant’ ‘commies’ . Sad you stoop so low.
‘All these rancorous anti-Brahmins forget that the so-called evils of caste could not have been enforced were it not for the enthusiastic participation of the other castes. Brahmins simply did not and have not the numbers.’
In case you had forgotten India did not have democracy at that time. It was autocratic monarchy puppeteer ed by Brahmin advisers.
LikeLike
Odd man out wrote
>>The Laws of Manu -’manusmrithi’ -Penguin Classics- published 1991-translated by Wendy Doniger with Brian K. Smith ISBN 0-14-044540-4
>>
LOL, reading wendy doniger to understand the manusmriti is the most hilarious suggestion I have heard in quite some time.
Odd man out…you should read rajeev malhotra and ramesh rao’s articles on wendy doniger to understand her agenda on hinduism.
LikeLike
Extravgant,
Khomeni looked cruel, I dont think Nehru family does. Mayawati and JJ dont look alike. Going by your theory of looks, Mayawati should have been in the south than up north.. case of stolen babies or what ? Huh!! Anyone who doesnt agree with yr POV, is a RSS guy ? You only see what you want to see… Realise the fact that History of ?India was written by the British, who had their own agenda to push. Maybe that fact was a little learning for u :D
LikeLike
Krishna has clearly mentioned about castes in Bhagavadgeetha,
He has said that anyone who possess Following qualities are classified as brahmins
Have control of emotions, control of senses, purity, truthfulness, tolerance, simplicity, reject material wealth, believe in God, and study and teach sacred scriptures.
Any one who possesses the above qualities can be classified as brahmins irrespective of their birth. This is said by Krishna himself, so stop quarrelling on the basis of caste and learn that every one belongs to some caste based on his occupation, example: one who does carpentry is a carpenter, one who washes clothes is an agasa , one who fights war is a kshathriya, etc similarly one who performs pooja , worships god and has some of the above mentioned qualities can certainly be classified as brahmin.
LikeLike
DGopala,
channagi helde guru, aadroo idannella astondu serious agi thagobedappa, arogyakke olledalla….
LikeLike
mayura,
LOL is good for improving and maintaining good health. It is the fad now a days :-)
Read Wendy Doniger or any other numerous translations in English available on line.They are all in plain simple English.
Go and read your favourite Rao or Malhotra for your guidance or the history books to know the purpose and influence ‘manusmrithi’ exerted on a largely illiterate population.
LikeLike
yeah sure. and i will also read doniger and her minions to understand ganapathy.
avowed atheists puked on that thesis. that thesis single handedly demolished all the romantic notions i had about peer reviewed modern scholarship.
third rate drug abusers in modern day western world would violently protest before being subject to theories that doniger insists in subjecting an entire civilization to.
LikeLike
if you are not trying to get a thesis published yourself, you should have the cohones to be critical and think for yourself atleast.
LikeLike
well cohones you should have even if you are trying to publish a thesis.
LikeLike
SM
You did not look at all. Pls check what ‘Iran’ means. Nehru and Khomeni are from the same stock. The two women (Mayawati and Jayalalitha) do not look alike. That was my point. Read my previous post again if you can. Mayawati is a UP dalit and Jayalalitha is a southern brahmin. Brahmins everywhere are the same — Iranians. Does it strike anything in you now?
LikeLike
Odd-man-out,
Political pupppeteers, even autocratic ones, are too busy puppeteering to micromanage the caste system in every village. That the non-Brahminical castes require no help to uphold the caste system is shown by the attacks against Dalits and honour killing news reports of recent vintage.
Sad I stooped so “low”? Well, one wishes to connect.
I agree with Mayura re Doniger and her kind. It’s time we reclaimed our exegetics and do our own translations By “our”, I mean Hindus. Apparently, it suffices for certain Occidental “scholars” merely to acquire a set of degrees to comment “authoritatively” on a culture they have never lived.
LikeLike
An interesting article on the role of Brahmins vis-a-vis the colonising Brits.
http://www.geocities.com/ifihhome/articles/mj002.html
LikeLike
D gopal says that according to Gita, people who are having certain qualities of mind and deed are brahmins. Fine, if it is so, do iyer and co possess such qualities and in the absece of it, why do they call themselves brahmins? I think if they stop using it and allow all communities to become temple priests, there would not be any problem. Iyers should come out of their shell and join the mainstream mingling with all people. I think in north india, this anti feeling is not there because, brahmins are not living in isolation there. Can there be a better rational and progressive thinking leader than Nehru?
Srikant should know that any christian can become pope and any muslim can become moulvi, but any hindu cannot become priest. so far as caste divisions among indian muslims and christians, it is the legacy carried from their parent religion and it is not sancitified by Bible or Quran and that is why it is not found outside india..
LikeLike
Nakeeran : I agree with you that any qualified Hindu should be able to become a priest. Being a priest is not a lucrative profession today and may need creative programs to attract students.
Caste is not the only way people divide and kill each other over. Islam has its divisive problems unlimited. So does Christianity. All of this with One Book each to guide them. Moreover, it is a fact that Brahmins are not the sole upholders of Caste. Each Caste has its “conceit” value. There are “Upper Dalits” who will not mingle with “Lower Dalits”. However, Caste is of obvious value to its adherents. Else it would not have survived into modern times. How may this “positive” force be utilized for benefit of all? That is the question.
Your question wrt Iyer is posed to “yourself” as well. Why do not our Dalits call themselves Brahmin when they reach a higher stage in learning? I say why not? They should. No one will stop them.
For the record, I don’t share the Arya-Dravida pop story. South India is so full of “Black” Brahmins. Who would have imagined that Kanshi Ram was Dalit? Ambedkar himself would have passed off as a Brahmin in the South and even in the North. In his youth, it was mostly his name or introduction that attracted negative feelings in Casteists…not his looks.
The biggest blunder current day Dalit intellectuals tend to make is to align themselves with Islamist radicals a la VT Rajashekar et al. Chandrabhan Prasad has a better take on most Dalit issues.
LikeLike
If people are interested trivia;
It was Ambedkar’s Brahmin patrons who help him in his education. In fact, “Ambedkar” is the Brahamanized version of Ambavadekar.
On Ambedkar’s return from the United States, it was a Parsi hotel owner who threw him out because of his Caste.
LikeLike
whether you all like it or not, all over the world, in some form or the other, gradation and categorization exist. It is natural. why fight because lion roars and tiger roars, but both are different. All castes are real, All Religions are real. different fruits, different animals, different plants, different characters, similarly like these, different castes. Brahmins are Number One, Kshatriyas are at 2nd position, Vaishyas at 3rd position and Shudras at number 4 position. Burial ground chandala at number 5 position and foreigner at number 6
LikeLike
To touch the idols which are in holy temples(pratishtana murtis)only the people who are brahmin by birth are eligible(pls refer parashara smruti).so v the brahmins are having some standards (eg:in taking food,in discipline etc) ie very difficult for others to follow……if somebody is criticizing brahmanism there is no loss for us,baseless allegations against brahmins are passion for the people in this modern era.but the base for hinduism is brahmanism,vedas……
LikeLike