When Sonia Gandhi mysteriously heeded her “inner voice” in 2004 and passed on the baton to Oxbridge-educated Manmohan Singh, the country it was believed was in safe hands. And when Singh chose Harvard-educated P. Chidambaram as his finance minister, who in turn picked Rhodes scholar Montek Singh Ahluwalia as deputy chairman of the Planning Commission, it was universally decreed that a “dream team” was in place to guide the country’s economic fortunes.
After all, Manmohan Singh was seen to have been the man who put India on the fast-track in 1991 under the tutelage of P.V. Narasimha Rao. After all, Chidambaram was seen to have produced a “dream budget” in 1997. And true enough, there has been an 9 per cent growth in the country’s GDP year after year since the United Progressive Alliance took charge four years ago. But on the day the inflation rate has shot up to a 13-year high of 11.05 per cent, it’s time to ask: has the dream team failed India?
Admittedly, a host of international factors are at play. But looking at the galloping inflation, has India’s GDP growth been in spite of the financial wizardry of the “Singh Parivar”? Have Chidambaram & Co failed to check petrol, diesel and cooking gas prices, and thus prices of food and commodities? Has the stock market, which has plunged several thousand points from the high of 21,000, seen through the game? Are programmes like farm loan waiver and national rural employment guarantee scheme proof?
Will the dream team’s failures cost the Congress and UPA the election? And is that why we are seeing this last-minute brinkmanship on the Indo-US nuclear deal?
Photograph: courtesy Hindu Business Line
Also read: KAUSHIK BASU: Reasons to be cheerful
Finally some sense is back into churmuri :)
So the “dream team” has been officially made the scapegoats for the kaangi(Sonia) led UPA disaster.. Manmohan Singh will disappear into political oblivion..
karihada
Before you write the epitaph for the present govt, here are some statistics which should tell you how the dream team has performed.
Crude oil price was 30$ a barrel when NDA was in power. Yet, yet, yet, yet, yet, amazingly inflation hovered around eight percent during NDA regime.
Crude oil price is 140$ per barrel (450% more) during UPAs rule. Yet inflation is in the region of 11% only.
If the international petrol price has gone up by 450% and inflation by just 2.5%, (compared to NDA) i think it is a REMARKABLE ACHIEVEMENT BY THE DREAM TEAM. full marks to the dream trio of Manmohan singh, Montek singh and Chidambaram.
In the five years of NDA rule, the average economic growth rate was a poor 5.5%. In the last four years of UPA rule, the economic growth rate is an IMPRESSIVE 9%. TRULY REMARKABLE.
In the five years of NDA, the railways made unprecedented loses. In the five years of UPA, the railways has made record breaking profits to the tune of 10,000 plus crores! TRULY ASTOUNDING.
In the five years of NDA, there was ZERO reduction in income tax. In the four years of UPA, the income tax has been reduced to such an extent that the everybody saves a min of Rs. 4000 to a maximum of Rs.44,000.
In the five years of NDA, agricultural growth was a poor 1.5 or 2%. During the five years of UPA, agricultural growth peaked at 3.6%
Inheriting a fiscal deficit from NDA, of 4.5 per cent, it has been brought down to 2.8 per cent in 2007-08, by the UPA. Likewise, inheriting a revenue deficit of 3.6 per cent, it has been brought down to 1.2 per cent in 2007-08.
Thanks to the robust growth of the economy, the savings to GDP ratio has increased from 29.8 per cent in 2003-04 to 34.0 per cent in 2006-07. Likewise, the investment to GDP ratio has increased from 28.2 per cent in 2003-04 to 35.9 per cent in 2006-07.
In the six year period of the BJP/NDA, the tax to GDP ratio crawled from 9.1 per cent to 9.2 per cent. Starting with 9.2 per cent at the end of 2003-04, the UPA Government has raised it to 12.5 per cent in 2007-08, and the ratio is expected to reach 13 per cent this financial year.
So before CHURUMURI goes hysterical about the failure of the dream team, they are better advised to go through the numbers, with a fine tooth comb
Its indeed an irony – But i think when you fail to stand up and be counted, this is what will befall. If anything, i cant remember a single time when Manmohan stood his ground – he has always given away and allowed the commies, the DMK, the RJD, the NCP to run away with their agendas. And when the time has come – he is now trying to redeem…Sorry Dr. too late..
WrongFact,
Do you think BJP supporters here agree on anything sensible here?
Most of the BJP supporters have been systematically brainwashed to believe that India progressed only during BJP power.
BTW,railways profit was somewhere around 15k or 25k crores this year.This itself should be one of the great achivement.
Sumkirla
thanks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ಡ್ರೀಮ್ ಟೀಮ್ ಸೋಲಲು ಕಾರಣ ಮತ್ತಿನ್ಯಾರೂ ಅಲ್ಲ ಲೆಫ್ಟಿಗರು. ಹಿಂದೆ ತೈಲ ಬೆಲೆ ಜಾಸ್ತಿ ಆದಾಗಲೇ ಪೆಟ್ರೋಲ್ ಡಿಸೆಲ್ ಬೆಲೆ ಸ್ವಲ್ಪವಾದರೂ ಜಾಸ್ತಿ ಮಾಡಿದ್ದರೆ, ಈ ಪರಿಸ್ಥಿತಿ ಬರುತ್ತಿರಲಿಲ್ಲವೇನೋ.
ದೇಶದ(ಸರ್ಕಾರದ..??) “ಹಿತದೃಷ್ಟಿಯಿಂದ”, ಎಡಪಕ್ಷಗಳ ಒತ್ತಾಯದಿಂದ ಬೆಲೆ ಏರಿಕೆ ಬಿಟ್ಟಿತು. ಆದ್ರೆ, ಸಹಿಸಲಸಾಧ್ಯವಾದ ಮಟ್ಟಿಗೆ ಬೆಲೆ ಏರುವುದು ಕನಸು ಮನಸಿನಲ್ಲೂ ಎಣಿಸಿರಲಿಲ್ಲ.
ಎಡ ಪಕ್ಷಗಳಿಗೆ ಕ್ರಾಂತಿ, ಹೋರಾಟ, ಬೆದರಿಕೆ, ಪ್ರತಿಭಟನೆಗಳು ಗೊತ್ತೇ ಹೊರತು ಆಡಳಿತವಲ್ಲ ಅನ್ನೋದು ಇದರಿಂದ ತಿಳಿಯುತ್ತೆ.
ಇನ್ನು “ಸುಪ್ರೀಂ ಪವರ್” ಸೋನಿಯಾಜೀ ಮಾತನ್ನ ಕೇಳಬೇಕಾದ ಪರಿಸ್ಥಿತಿ ನಮ್ಮ ಡ್ರೀಮ್ ಟೀಮಿನದು. ಅದಕ್ಕೇ ಮೋದಿ ಕೇಳಿದ್ದು ಸರಿ ಅನ್ಸುತ್ತೆ. ಯಾವುದೇ ಒಬ್ಬ ಸಾಮಾನ್ಯ ಕಾಂಗ್ರೇಸ್ ಕಾರ್ಯಕರ್ತನನ್ನ ಕರೆದು ಕೇಳಿ ನಿಮ್ಮ “ನಾಯಕ” ಯಾರು ಅಂತಾ. ಯಾರಾದ್ರೂ ಪ್ರಧಾನಿಯವರ ಹೇಳಿದರೆ ನನಗೆ ಬಂದು ಹೇಳಿ ಅಂತಾ. ನಿಜಕ್ಕೂ ಖೇದಕರ ಸಂಗತಿ. ಬೇರಾವ ದೇಶದಲ್ಲೂ ಪ್ರಧಾನಿ “ನಾಯಕ”ನಾಗಿರದ ಪರಿಸ್ಥಿತಿ ಇಲ್ಲ.
ಮನಮೋಹನ್ ಸಿಂಗ್ ಪ್ರಪಂಚದಲ್ಲೇ ಗುರುತಿಸಲ್ಪಟ್ಟ ಅರ್ಥಶಾಸ್ತ್ರಜ್ಞ. ಆದರೆ, ಅಧಿಕಾರವಿಲ್ಲದ ವ್ಯಕ್ತಿ ಏನು ಮಾಡೋಕೆ ಸಾಧ್ಯ. ಏನೇ ಮಾಡಬೇಕೆಂದ್ರೂ ಅಧಿಕಾರ ಅನ್ನೋದು ಒಂದಾದ್ರೂ ಇರ್ಲೇಬೇಕಲ್ವಾ..?
@WrongFact
Thanks for all the facts.
But the correct fact is that we are getting lesser and lesser to eat.
So what do I have to do with rail, GDP, fiscal deficit, agricultural growth etc etc etc etc etc… if I am finding it really tough to get decent amount of fuel for the stomach?
Please dont go overboard in praising the UPA.
Taklu
Check this out for reasons behind inflation – http://www.indianinflation-uncontrollable.com/
Very disappointing analysis by churmuri. How easy it is to blame the dream team when every nation in the world is in doldrums. Rise and fall in inflation has been part of development history all over the world. Even in India 13 years ago, as the article here mentions, it was as high or much higher but never before was there this kind of inflation phobia in India. Blaming the ‘dream team’ just because inflation is around does not make any sense. Lets discuss the rights and wrongs of the various policy measures of the dream team and their implications if we can
This UPA govt came into existence with the mesmerising slogan of Aam Aadmi..! But once seated in power, these politicians conveniently, comfortably forgot the Aam Aadmi.
Mr Wrong fact could go on piling up statistics after statistics. But the ground reality is that life has become horrible for the Aam Aadmi. Globalisation has lead us nowhere..!
The UPA govt has failed in all fronts. The Congress is as worse as BJP. It has failed to provide justice too! It brought out a Rajinder Sachar committee report, but no action was taken against culprits of Gujarat 2002 genocide. They are sitting over Sri Krishna Report for more than a decade!
mash it up and wash it down with this :
http://www.hindu.com/2008/06/16/stories/2008061655371000.htm
Dream team could not so coin a loony phrase like “american dream” for us, i think that is the only spice missing out.
we have already seen shining india
Azeez jee
Your mail conveniently ignores all the statistics and makes sweeping generalizations, without any basis against the UPA. Please substantiate those wild allegations you throw on the face of UPA, just like I justified what I said, with facts.
You say that no action was taken against Gujarat 2002 genocide? That’s laughable. The state govt. is in charge of law and order and not the central government. Besides, all the cases are in the court. The central govt. cannot interfere in any way.
Yes, sitting on the Sri Krishna Report is not a good sign. The Congress should have been more proactive in this case.
Taklu jee
You say that the correct fact is that we are getting lesser and lesser to eat! Somehow what you say flies in the fact that obesity is increasing in India by leaps and bounds. You get a bewildering variety of food items now in any supermall, most of which was unheard of , even a few years back. Our food consumption has gone up incrementally, simply because we are a fast -developing nation (in relation to previous years) and therefore, we consume more.
Agreed, there is still an enormous amount of work to be done. Farmers suicides, lack of health facilities, lack of good roads, water, electricity, corruption, displacement, unemployment…yes of course plenty more has to be done.
But the crucial fact is: India has never progressed this fast ever before.
Of course the miseries too continue, but the key fact is that the MISERIES have come down during UPA.
I have NEVER gone overboard in praising UPA. I have merely gone by FACTS. YOU CANNOT IGNORE FACTS.
And what do you mean, statistics make no difference to you? Statistics narrate how far we have progressed.
How can you say railways profit has no impact on you? Because of the profits, railway fares were reduced, services were improved, more trains were added, security was increased. All these benefit you, right?
If agricultural output has increased, you have more good nutritious food do eat.
The answer to the question “Is the dream team exposed?” is the same answer to the question “Would a BJP/NDA set up have performed better?” which is “No”.
Obviously, the factors contributing to the inflation are international. But so have the causes for India’s high growth in recent times been. If the dream team can point fingers to the outside world in one case it should have the humility to do so with the other, too.
That said, as Steve Waugh proved it so well in cricket, leadership is all about performing when it matters most, not when it’s 268 for 2. The dream team’s test of its skills was when fuel prices were skyrocketing, subsidy demands were rising from the party and allies, not when things were going swimmingly well. In that sense, they have failed the aam admi.
If Singh-Chidambaram-Singh could perform only so well with all their accumulated and borrowed (from IMF, World Bank, Chicago School) international expertise, one shudders to think what it would have been with an inward-looking Yashwant Sinha or Jaswant Singh dancing to the tunes of the Swadeshi Jagran Manch and other charlies.
Aatmasakshi,
Point well taken that UPA cannot point fingers the international community for rising oil prices and take self credit for the economic growth.
But like i mentioned earlier, the crude oil price rose by 450%, while correspondingly the inflation has risen by only 2.8% (in comparison from NDA (2003-04) to UPA (2007-08)
Surely, you should give credit to UPA for this!
@wrongfact
“If agricultural output has increased, you have more good nutritious food do e”
where is the food?and where is the money?
“India has never progressed this fast ever before.”
for whom?
where is the money? to buy food, buy house, rentals etc?
what is the use of progress if poor are getting poorer…
is this progress for the upper class only? .. so that they become obese?
or are you blind to the problems of the people who struggle to live daily..
lets say UPA did better,….
but in the context of India growing and India developing… that is expected , and that is a must right? So why all the glowing tributes.
what has happened in the power sector, in infrastructure, in agriculture, in education, healthcare etc.. nothing.
the govt. is doing nothing. it is the private entrepreneurs who are creating the jobs and wealth.
by the way the populist schemes of the UPA govt are being better implemented in the BJP ruled states. UPA are just announcing grand schemes with very bad implementation.
again.. all the figures you have mentioned amount to nothing if we cant live a decent life.
btw.. i am not a BJP supporter. but I definitely do not support UPA.
simply keep complaining about the UPA…india has acheived un precendented development in this phase…now is a phase forworld inflation…india needs to concentrate on its civil problems..the economy will run..
Just when we are talking of the facts,
Check this, The indian Railways in profit myth. Outlook did a story on this.
http://jagdishmadan.blogspot.com/2008/01/indian-railways-turnaround-myth.html
http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2007/10/truth-on-indian-railway-turn-around.html
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20070924&fname=Railways+%28F%29&sid=1
*WrongFact*
Reading you made me feel good, so thanks! But what is the source of your “facts”?
When ever some changes occur, if it is for the good or bad , we have a tendency to compare the performance with the past. When a political party goes to the people during elections, it always asks for a change saying that it will perform better. When they are not able to provide better governance, they fall back on the same old dictum. Why?
No matter how much statistics is showered on us, the UPA will be remembered for bringing back the horrors of reservation and putting the country on the path of disaster.
@ the end of the day the Figures are the only things that MATTER.
If BSY can be held responsible for the deaths of farmers ( within 1 month of tasting power ) for reasons beyond his control and anti BJP mongers and Commies can try to extract political mileage even in the suicide of farmers and PP , then what is wrong in blaming UPA for the rise in inflation.The Finance Minister has made a mess of the financial affairs which has resulted in the economy going haywire.Trying to please the AMBANI’s and other industrialists and Share brokers in return for the Party COFFERS does not help.The blame lies with the FM.The Crude prices are going up without any correlation between demand and supply.The cost of Productions remains the same for the past 3/4 years.Yet the selling price it has increased 4 times and the reason is SIMPLE.The rates are determined by cartels and brokerages who are into commodity trading.Without even seeing an ounce of OIL these frauds determine the OIL Prices.Our FM encouraged this in other commodities and We are seeing the effects now.
Farmers barely manage to LIVE and the Brokers and Hoarders and making Money.And we have a Agriculture Minister who is busy attending Cricket matches and who imports WORM infested WHEAT purely for getting hold of the COMMISSION.
The FM and many other Ministers have played in the STOCK MARKET and made money for SEVERAL generations to come .Why should they be bothered about INFLATION.
All ministers have their own agenda and the DUMMY PM did not have the guts to keep them in check earlier as he was busy safeguarding his SEAT.
It is said that one must always check the “premise”, if the current inflation rate is solely a wrong doing of the “dream team” then I am afraid the author must check the “premise”…. Even the tele media is acting hysterical and sending wrong messages to people instead of educating them/us the causes of such a rise, the burden of subsidy and stuff like tat.
The media unfortunately/fortunately has the penchant to explain the specifics of the menu on some X’s marriage with ‘Y’ and not raw economic fundaes!
WrongFact –
I would venture to point out that the international price of crude oil and Indian inflation do not have a linear relationship as you are suggesting by stating that a 450% rise in crude oil prices have only caused an inflation increase of 2.5%. First of all crude oil prices are not the point at issue but the domestic prices at the pump. Second, Inflation is not calculated in absolutes and it is a year-on-year figure. Therefore when the figure of 11% inflation comes out it means (approximately) that the wholesale price index has risen 11% from a year ago. Thus, it would be more correct to see the increase in fuel prices in the last one year and compare that with the increase in average prices. That too would not be exactly correct though since oil prices – though a very significant part of the price index – are not the end all and be all of price increases. That is, if oil prices increase by 10%, it is not expected that inflation will be 10%. There are a myriad of other factors involved in the determination of inflation such as monetary policy, fiscal policy, people’s expectations etc. While I am not blaming or excusing the current Administration, I do not think that 11% inflation was either necessary nor inevitable. The U.S for example has experienced an even greater shock from oil prices since in the U.S. oil prices are not subsidized and have risen from about $1 a gallon to $4 a gallon while inflation has remained at 1-2%.
Folks
Out of the Box thinking is what we lack. Let’s look at the source of all the problem’s. Oil price hike. Oil has become an essential commodity and can flare up prices like nobody’s business.
Who stand’s to Benefit ? Govt Oil companies and the mafia-politician links.
Alternate fuel and hybrid car’s are not being promoted by the Govt. There is no incentive do it either. Fuel efficient car’s and exploring other forms of fuel is on nobody’s radar.
Tata’s are exploring the air car and the research is still on and is yet to operationalize.
What if Oil price raises to $ 500 per Barrel ? Inflation soars to 60%.
Are we waiting for such a situation to mock at us. Then the most affected will be the absolute poor class, while the rich who move around in mercedes still stand to benefit from the subsidised petrol and LPG.
The duties for all car’s above 1000 cc should be increased by 100%. This will ensure that they use public transport too. A nation post 60 years dances to death on account of liberal policies, however it has had rampant socio politico problems.
Rich getting richer and they stampede over the poor with joy. Congress Govt had golden chance with absolute majority for close to 40 plus years to revamp Primary health care and Education. However in the hindsight post 60 years we are struggling for these essentials.
Maybe economy should be left to home bred leaders like Lalu Prasad and not these scholarly Cambridge and Oxford products?
India is unique and so are its problems. Our solutions should be unique too.
WrongFact –
If anything, the impact of oil prices has been pushed to a future govt to handle. Your argument that 450% rise in oil prices is responsible for inflation falls apart. Oil bonds are another form of avoiding responsibility.
PC’s only contribution is the overheated stock market which was a result of special concessions like Participatory Notes (PNs) to FIIs. PNs are this govt’s way of telling the foreign investor that they are more privileged than Indians.
Wrong fact:
Could you please also get some correct facts on number of terrorists attacks and how safe does ‘aam aadmi’ feels under the UPA rule.
@WrongFact,
the “dream team” has succeeded in one thing which is giving all the wrong fatcs about the state of the economy and make sure that ardent followers like you lap it up. If you are paying any EMI, you will very soon come to know that the true achievement of this gov’t is making you poorer.
I’m not denying that the present gov’t presided over the solid growth of the past 6-7 years, but its the lack of the future planning on this growth that has been disastrous. And also you have to keep one more thing in mind, the “dream team” keeps all the oil bonds, fertilizer subsidies off the book so the real deficit is still huge. Instead of using this growth period to fix the messed up oil, fertilizer sectors they go off and start some ridiculous populous schemes whose only goal is fetch them votes, after all ‘avarappana mane dudda?’..
And because of this gov’t the next 2-3 years are effed up with growth at 6% and reduced investments. This has already started with companies shelving their capex plans. Yesterday on CNBC some economists were comparing this situation with 1995 when inflation was at 11% and interest rates were 17-18%
They will just pass on this messy situation to the next BJP gov’t for it to fix, so that Sonia can install Rahulbaba as the PM in 5+ yrs time. It is the same situation as in 1998.. till 2004 BJP sets everything up for growth and then kaangi comes and takes the credit for it and then destroys it.. :(
WrongFact,
also when before you post any “fact” try to understand what they are and not just copy paste.
“Crude oil price is 140$ per barrel (450% more) during UPAs rule. Yet inflation is in the region of 11% only”.
So you were expecting zimbabwean inflation from your UPA gov’t, and so are happy that its only 11% ? LOL
PS: http://indiauncut.com/iublog/article/what-would-you-tip/
@kolikeranga,
perfect assesment.
I would add one more thing, not just remembered, but it has put the country on the path of the reservation and disaster. Its like seeing the clock move backwards to 1990
The ‘Dream’ team has become a ‘Nightmare’ team for the middle class people of India.
Middle class people must have got a hint of things to come when cooking gas started becoming scarce after the Congress government came to power in 2004. Middle class people who took housing loans are now stuck with high EMIs. The loan-waiver scheme is going to affect public sector bank’s balance sheet in the years to come as no farmer is going to repay loans taken expecting a future similar loan-waiver.
If you have noticed, nobody from this ‘dream’ team talks of any reforms.
If anything has been exposed it’s the well-off classes of every country with their stupid spending and callous attitude towards the habit of frugal living and whether it’s the NDA or the UPA they will only facilitate this way of life. there is nothing to seperate the two. Was it Jefferson who said ‘ spending is like sin- every government condemns it and every government practices it!’
The oil prices are determined by demand and demand reflects our unquenchable thirst for the black gold and so inflation is caused by this mostly needless need to fly and travel. So like Blough said nearly a hundred years ago ‘ Steel prices cause inflation like a wet sidewalk causes rain’.
Price rises arent really new you know. remember the song from Roti Kapda aur Makaan 33 years ago- Mehangaai maar gayi etc etc. This is not to depreciate the suffering of the poor due to price rises but it is a daily struggle you know – not the kind of angst that troubles the haves when they pour a stiff scotch for themselves or perhaps vist the petrol station. BTW the song mentioned earlier was banned by Indira Gandhi- I wonder why!
TR Balu a cabinet minister could not be shunted out by the PM inspite of him proclaiming that he got favours carried out.
PM has proven that he cant just handle inflation but also certain aspects which are very much in his control.
Now the PM is raving about left parties not allowing him to go pass with the Nuclear deal.
PM’s office has been reduced to that of President’s office. Both are rubber stamp after 60 years of independence. Constitutional propriety does guarantee the PM with reasonable authority, however he is governed the conscience of others including Madam Sonia.
When he was an erstwhile Finance Minister he rescued the Country from bankruptcy, but now the Country is going back to yesteryears of 1991.
It would be better to resign from PM’s post, if he cannot handle it.
Such exposures are of no use because the inflation rate is not putting a break and the middle class families are suffering a lot and our ministers are filling their pockets only.
Inflation: It hurts the most at the bottom – Its the poor who suffer
When prices are generally rising, whether you gain or lose from it depends on whether the prices of things you sell are rising more than prices of things you buy.
For a trader, therefore, if his selling prices are rising faster than those at which he buys, his profit margins are increasing, not shrinking. A similar logic would apply to industrialists.
But what of those who only sell their labour and buy all that they need to subsist ? You might say, wages rise too in an inflationary period. But wages are typically the last to go up in response to the increasing cost of living. There is thus a lag in which incomes are struggling to catch up with expenditure.
In effect, thus, inflation acts as a sort of invisible hand that takes incomes away from the pockets of the poor and deposits them in those of some of the rich.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Inflation_It_hurts_the_most_at_the_bottom/articleshow/3150795.cms
Mysore Peshva
The source of my facts is all economic business magazines, economic dailies and finance minister website.
Taklu
Again, you make sweeping allegations with no proof. Standard of living has gone up in India in the past five years – whether it is in rural areas or urban areas. Isn’t a mobile phone in every man’s hand a reflection of the
same? Go to any small town and you see, families there shop for good, better quality food items than they have ever done before.
Besides, the govt. cut income tax for all categories, which means people have more money to spend now.
Support price for farmers has been increased.
Loans for small farmers have been waived off.
Fertilizer prices have been reduced by up to 20%
Kolike Ranga
You say UPA will be remembered for bringing the horrors of reservation.
I must remind you that the BJP govt. in Rajasthan (just 3 days back) has given reservation up to 68% – they have given reservation to banjaras, jats, gujjars, brahmins and several other castes, purely for votebank politics
No congress govt. in India has given reservation up to 68% reservation. The BJP has outclassed Congress in giving reservation to the poor. It will be fair to say that BJP is the new champion of reservations. 68%!
So the horror of reservation will actually haunt the BJP
Thaleharate,
Terrorists attack in Pakistan, Iraq, Palestine are much more than in India. You hear of suicide attacks almost every other day in one of these countries.
In relation, terrorists attacks in India are lesser. But the worst form of terrorism happened under NDA when our temple, the sacred parliament was attacked.
// In the five years of NDA, there was ZERO reduction in income tax. In the four years of UPA, the income tax has been reduced to such an extent that the everybody saves a min of Rs. 4000 to a maximum of Rs.44,000. //
But only 2-3% of people pay income tax. there is ‘aam aadmi’ living at less than a dollar a day.
// Terrorists attack in Pakistan, Iraq, Palestine are much more than in India. //
there is something to be said about low expectations. you keep them low and there is no disappointment. So, iraq, palestine and pakistan , possibly somalia, ethiopia etc should be our comparison. way to go.
railways hiked freight rates out of budget. the impact of that on inflation would be a subject of future study.
Chaitanya,
You say crude oil prices are not the issue, but the domestic prices at the pump. You mean to say that crude oil prices and domestic price at the pump have no co-relation?
India is not the only country to be hit by double digit inflation. All our neighbours have teh same problem. Pakistan, Bangladesh……even Vietnam Malayasia, etc.
If crude oil prices, as you yourself admit, are a significant factor in inflation, then how come inflation was as high as 8% when crude was 35 dollars per barrel? Surely, because the then NDA govt. did not take adequate monetary measures to curb inflation?
Bombat Huduga
You are right. Out of the box thinking is the need of the day
Karihaida
Statistics. Statisitics. Statisitcs. How can you say Cong screwed up the good economy BJP left us with?
BJP left a poor legacy of a growth rate of 5.5%, it was up to the dream team to undo the shoddy work of NDA and take the growth rate to a fantastic 9%
NDA left a poor legacy of railways in losses. It was up to the UPA to undo the shoddy work of NDA and make railways a Rs.15,000 crore profit making enterprise.
NDA left a poor legacy of agricultural growth rate of under 2%. I was up to the UPA to undo the shoddy work of NDA and up the agricultural growth rate to 3.5%
NDA left a poor legacy of FDIs, of tax collection, of jobless growth. It was up to the UPA to undo the shabby work of NDA as proven by the numbers.
Also, you say : “So you were expecting zimbabwean inflation from your UPA gov’t, and so are happy that its only 11% ? LOL”
I was pointing out the fact that UPA has taken adequate measures to control inflation inspite of a 450% hike in oil prices (since NDA regime)
Anonymous,
Every earning Indian has to pay tax. Those who pay tax will benefit from the income tax cut. Those who avoid paying tax shall naturally not benefit from the tax cuts.
Law abiding “aam aadmis” benefit, while the other kind of tax evading “aam aadmis” will not. But naturally.!!!!!!
By the way, although freight rates were increased, railways decreased prices for aam admi.
Terrorism is an universal phenomenon. All nations have had to deal with this problem. India has fared LESS WORSE. In the numbers game, everything is relative.
There is no need to politicize terrorism. Instead, all parties need to support the Govts. measures to eliminate terrorism. Instead of nitpicking on POTA, and TADA, it’s better for parties to unify to fight terrorism.
Remember it was the Congress which eliminated terrorism in Punjab.
Dear Congress Spokesperson in Chrumumuri AKA Wrong fact,
You remind me of Jayanthi Natarajan. Even in the face of utmost adverse situation, you put up a brave face and try to wriggle out of the embarassment by blaming the others.
Myth: FM has cut the income tax rates and increased the exempt slab.
Fact: FM did it in the last year of his tenure with elections clearly in sight. If he could do it now, what prevented him from doing it in the first year of his tenure????
Myth: FM has cut the income tax rates and increased the exempt slab.
Fact: Have you ever noticed the increasing number of services being added to the service tax net every year??? And whose brilliant brain was it which thought of service tax in the first place??? A simple transaction in a Bank like taking a Demand Draft is becoming expensive. Sending courier is becoming expensive. You blabbered about mobile phones in everyone’s pocket. Have you ever checked the service tax AAM AADMI is paying on his/her mobile bill???? Atrocious it is.
And remember one thing, if UPA is voted to power in the next general elections, the first thing PC is going to do is to increase the service tax rate from the current 12% to 16%. Who is bothered about the direct taxes anyway when you can tax even the poorest of the poor by levying Service Tax on everything???
Can you, by checking with your masters at Delhi, explain what prompted the current UPA government to go slow on the Golden Quadrilateral programme started by Atalji? Compare the progress made in creating new national highways during the NDA regime and the current regime. The growth rate in the new road creation has come to stand still. Yet, the first task done by UPA after assuming power was to remove the photo and name of Atalji from all the signboards, across India on the golden quadrilateral.
Do you call this achievement???
Who are the real instigators behing the Gujjar agitation? Why did the farmers suddenly come to the roads in Karnataka??? You claim it was congress who controlled terrorism in Punjab. But you have forgotten to address the basic question, WHO CREATED TERRORISM in Punjab??? Mrs. Gandhi thru Bhindranwale to check the akali’s growing popularity.
Dear Congress Spokesperson in Chrumumuri AKA Wrong fact,
You talk about indians becoming obese and gloat that it is an achievement of the UPA. Typical Bush like thinking!!!! A middle class family needs the basic food items at an affordable price. Not the junk food which is eaten by the affluent section. In one of the interviews in CNN IBN, a woman from north india mentioned that her family is eating only potatoes because all other vegetables have become very expensive. And you talk about burgeoning bellies!!!!
I must admire you for one thing. You have gauged your intellectual level quite correctly and have given yourself an apt name. WRONG FACT. Congratulations.
Coming back to some of the other inane points you have raised in your mindless writing:
Jaipur Blasts, Mumbai Blasts, Delhi Blastas, Jammu Raghunatha Mandir Blasts, Akshardham blasts, Hyd Blasts, attack on IISc in Bangalore, mass killings of kashmiri pandits, evacuating them from their home land, chinese incursions in North East, Maoist attacks in the WB and Chattisgarh, Naxalism… Phew… the list goes on and on.
Yet your bird brain suggests that India has fared far better!!! Is this what you call better? How will you feel if someone were to CHOP off both your hands and say you are relatively better since he killed you neighbour??? Do you realise the value of your relative theory???
There are three kinds of lies. Plain lies, Damned lies and Statistics. This is precisely what came to my mind when I read your vomitting of numbers. Though I must say one thing, you have a good future as a copy writer!!!!
Coming back to your FACTS: when the economy is going at 5.5% (something which you quoted) during the NDA regime, not much is needed to propel it to 8.5% because that government would have laid the path for higher growth. Its like someone finishing half the cooking and you walking in to add the final touches and claim the ENTIRE credit!!!! A straw poll amongst the corporate heads and common man, both will be of the opinion that things were much better in the NDA regime. (If this poll were to be conducted by statisticians like you, its a different story altogether!!!)
Railways earning profit in crores is something which is questionable. Just one GEM is quoted here:
Pay More for Onward Journeys: You can no longer buy a single ticket if you have to change trains for an onward destination. For example, a person travelling from Mumbai to Guwahati could earlier buy a Mumbai-Howrah-Guwahati ticket for Rs 557. Now, he has to buy a Mumbai-Howrah ticket for Rs 517, and another ticket for the Howrah-Guwahati leg for Rs 369. Added profits for the railways: Rs 100 crore.
Lots of things like this were done by Lalloo bhaiya to jack up the profit. Come on, a guy who took Bihar to the brink of wreck, do you think he can suddenly become a reformer?? What a joke!!!!
Today’s front page news in TOI mentions that the quantity of tea we get is reduced to keep the price intact, higher prices of vegetables are making eateries to cut the quantity of veggies that go into a dish.
Yet for the resident Jayanthi Natarjan and her ever increasing girth, this is not a matter of concern!!!
You see she has cake to eat to increase her obesity. Where is the time to be concerend over this kind of mundane matters????
Dear Mr. Chintaka
I’d appreciate it if you would keep the debate civil instead of heaping abuses on me.
FM cut income tax slabs in the final year of UPA tenure because of the first four years’ of hard work paid off. Tax collection was buoyant, growth was superb, the economic fundamentals was strong, hence it was time to reward the “aam aadmi”.
If according to you, UPA should have resorted to populist measures and given income tax cuts every year, the economy would have gone for a toss. Poor logic.
THE INDISUPTABLE FACT: NDA could not give tax cuts to the aam aadmi. THE UPA did it.
And you are relentless in criticizing the service tax. So according to you, service tax should be abolished (in addition to income tax cut every year). Fine, then how will the government get revenue? By listening to hollow rhetorical speeches of NDA?
The BJP led by Vajpayee gave OBC reservations to Jats in 1999. This was pure votebank politics which backfired because, the Gujjars who were in the OBC category felt squeezed by the Jats.
Therefore in 2003 Rajasthan elections, to woo the Gujjars, the BJP promised ST status to Gujjars. On coming to power, the BJP conveniently forgot about the promose. Hence Gujjars resorted to the agitation.
And not the BJP has gone ahead and given reservation to EVERY CASTE in Rajasthan! Truly shocking.
Indira Gandhi was killed because she was tough on terrorism (as alleged by BJP that Cong is soft on terrorism). Terrorists were Congress’ enemies. Indira Gandhi took on the Punjab militants while Rajiv Gandhi took on LTTE. Hence both paid for their tough stance with their lives.
Subsequently Congress showed that only they can handle terrorism with a hard hand. Otherwise Punjab would have still been burning now.
As far as the golden quadrilateral is concerned, the work still continues minus the corruption . Why should govt spend crores of tax payers money to put up photos of politicians across the country?
Chintaka
Thank you for gauging my intellectual ability. Yes, of course, there are plenty of people who still need to get two square meals a day. But the INDISPUTABLE FACT is that poverty levels have come done. There are lesser number of people who are poor today, than during the NDA regime.
Also, there are more number of middle class and rich people now, than compared to NDA. India is becoming prosperous. Be proud of that, instead of cribbing constantly.
Of course, there are terrorists attacks in India. But then there were so during the NDA regime too. Worse, the terrorists attacked our TEMPLE during NDA. Our sacred parliament. Even Worse, our NDA graciously hosted terrorists in a plane. Which the Congress has never done.
Not a single word i have said is a lie. It is all FACTUAL STATISTICS. Tell me which statistic is wrong.????
If you feel BJP did the half cooking, then i must say the COOKING BEGAN because of Narasimha rao and Manmohan singh in 1991. NDA at best gave us half cooked dishes throughout its tenure.
Railways has consistently shown record profits during Laloo’s tenure because of out of the box thinking . You need exemplary vision to revolutionize the railways. Sadly NDA lacked it.
When someone behaves like the spokesperson of a party, it is apt to call that person as the spokesperson…
Myth :
FM cut income tax slabs in the final year of UPA tenure because of the first four years’ of hard work paid off. Tax collection was buoyant, growth was superb, the economic fundamentals was strong, hence it was time to reward the “aam aadmi”.
FACT: Aam aadmi is not benifitted. What one hand gives, the other hand takes away. This is an eye wash. Why? Because the increase in the service tax rate coupled with the inclusion of more services means that whatever tax savings are effected on account of direct tax cut, the FM is making it up in increase of Indirect Tax. I hope this will get into your head.
What is more, while direct tax cut helps the tax paying people of this country, as I have pointed out earlier, any increase in Indirect Tax will affect the whole country, including your AAM AADMI!!!!
PC is a chameleon. He hides his real intentions, puts on an act and people like you tom tom this as a great achievement!!!!
Service tax is essential. But to what extent?? For example, any individual, whether working or retired, has to pay service tax on the telephone bills. Yes, even if he has a BSNL connection. Today the min charge on BSNL is 480 for two months. Service tax on this is Rs.59.32. Is it really justified to levy this on EVERY connection???
Look at the cascading effect of service tax. Today transport is considered as a service and tax is levied on that. Who will pay ultimately?? The end user, the same AAM AADMI, whose interest you are claiming that CON-gress is protecting!!! There are many instances like this. I have quoted just two examples.
Care to dispute this?
>>Indira Gandhi was killed because she was tough on terrorism (as alleged by BJP that Cong is soft on terrorism). Terrorists were Congress’ enemies. Indira Gandhi took on the Punjab militants while Rajiv Gandhi took on LTTE. Hence both paid for their tough stance with their lives.
Subsequently Congress showed that only they can handle terrorism with a hard hand. Otherwise Punjab would have still been burning now.
You smoking pot???? Terrorism was non existent in Punjab. Who created that Demon???? By siding with Bhindranwale to check the Akalis, it was your Mrs. G who was responsible for the loss of so many lives. And when things started getting out of hand, she thought of taking action which backfired badly. No need to make her a martyr, she paid for what she did.
Same is the case with your poster boy Rajeev. He had no business in poking his nose in a neigbour’s issue. He sent IPKF. LTTE blew him. Tit for tat. Why make a him too a martyr???
And look at the CONgress. They are siding with the party which sympathises LTTE for the sake of power. And Maino memsaab and her daughter are shedding tears now for Nalini just to gain sympathy all over again!!!!
Care to dispute this???
When you get out of the pot induced delusion, I had said that the work is happening, but at a snail’s pace….
So according to you
Rajeev Gandhi International Airport, Rajeev Gandhi National Park, Rajeev Gandhi Stadium, Rajeev Gandhi IIM at Shillong…
Indira Gandhi International Airport, Indira Gandhi Park, Indira Awaas Yojna, Indira Gandhi National Open University, Indira Gandhi International Awards, Indira Gandhi Stadium…
is okay even if their contribution to all this things is a BIG ZERO….
But for a man who thought of providing the vital road link between the north and south, east and west, commemorating him is not okay.
True CONgressi culture!!!!!
Dear Congress Spokesperson in Chrumumuri AKA Wrong fact,
Facts can be twisted to suit the requirement of the day. Agreed, middle class income is growing, middle class prosperity is growing, middle class is turning into rich class. No disputing that. But realise this, this is happening INSPITE of CONgress being in power!!!!! Had NDA won the last general elections, we would have grown much faster. That is the real point.
Now look at the other side of the same fact.
NDA prepared grounds for this kind of growth. And CONgress is simply reaping the rewards. Now what is CONgress leaving behind??? A huge debt burden, high inflation and reduction in the growth rate. Now NDA will come to power, set it right in the next five years… and the cycle continues…
You said India suffered from less of terrorism. So I quoted all those instances. I never disputed the fact that terrorism was non existent during the NDA regime. But what is important is the reaction of the governments in containing the terror. While Afzal Guru was put behind the bars by NDA, CONgress is giving him free khaana peena at the tax payers expenses. Why? Hanging a terrorist will cost them their muslim votes. This is the lop sided thinking which CONgress has.
If you remember right, there is a joker called VP Singh in our political scenario. In his ministry there was another thug called Mufti Mohammed Sayed. His daughter Rubina Syed was kidnapped and VP Singh’s government released three terrorists for the release of a SINGLE individual, thus setting a bad precedent. And it is with this Mufti Muhammad Sayed, CONgress is running a government in J&K.
Cut to Kandahar. The channels of the day like NDTV created a tamasha out of this incident. The entire families of the people who were in the plane which got hijacked demonstrated in front of the PM’s house for giving in to the demands of the hijackers so that their family members are released.
Channels started questioning ” if for the releae of daughter of a politician, three terrorists can be released, why not to save the lives of over a hundred countrymen?”.
Your CONgress too joined the bandwagon. The govt of the day had no choice since we had a bloody precednt of releasing the terrorists. Allowing the hostages to be killed was unthinkable. So terrorists were released. I hope you, atleast now, understand the motive behind the action.
Dear Congress Spokesperson in Chrumumuri AKA Wrong fact,
Your party president has an unusual talent. Hog all the limelight for an electoral victory and blame the local leaders for defeat. Goobe koodisodu antaare idakke.
Your rhetoric is no different from her behaviour. If the country is progressing, it is because of CONgress. If there is economic development, it is because of CONgress. If stock market is in bull run, it is because of CONgress.
But at the first whiff of trouble, blame game starts. Now the spineless PM has a face saving exit ready for him. And CONgress will as usual come before the country like a martyr who sacrificed the government for the sake of nuclear deal……familiar scenario repeating again….
OK ,will some of you suggest what should be done now to bring down the inflation.
// The oil prices are determined by demand and demand reflects our unquenchable thirst for the black gold and so inflation is caused by this mostly needless need to fly and travel. So like Blough said nearly a hundred years ago ‘ Steel prices cause inflation like a wet sidewalk causes rain’.//
travel not needed. flying not needed. steel not needed, building not needed. would you recommend living in caves?
do you realize that when you are yapping away at your keyboard, that is consuming several precious resources?
Wrong Fact…
I don’t know in which country you are living?
I cannot understand your statistics, GDP, inflation, growth rate etc etc…
But the fact is that the price of a cup of tea has skyrocketed to 4rupees. The auto fare has increased manifold. Even the barber charges ten rupees more for a simple hair cut. The price of a banana has doubled. The price of ground nut balls in the petty shop at the street corner remains the same; but its size has been reduced.
The tale of soaring prices could be told on and on and on…
Realise the ground reality. Don’t praise the dream team.
Kick this government out, which cannot take any tough economic decisions thanks to the Left crutches it is depending on.
Bring in a nationlistic govt headed by BJP. Miracles may not happen overnight, but for the long term good of the country, this is essential.
In india democracy has succeeded in giving one thing to us. Talk – Freedom of expression. We use it to achieve our end goals. We dont care for the means. Great.
In the end, the dream team was expected to deliver a lot better. “The test for a champion comes not when everything is going well. The test comes when not everthing is OK”. This is the time this team should have succeeded. They should have owned responsibility. Instead, they went on blaming the whole world and every available excuses were given. A big national Shame for the illustrious leadership we have.
WrongFact Says:
Chaitanya,
You say crude oil prices are not the issue, but the domestic prices at the pump. You mean to say that crude oil prices and domestic price at the pump have no co-relation?
——————————-
WrongFact, Palaniappan passed the burden of higher oil prices to the next govt. Over 2 lakh crores in Oil bonds and under recoveries are waiting for them to shoulder. The burden ultimately falls on Indian tax payer, not on the “dream” team or their Italian master.
It is quite obvious WrongFact has got his/her FactsAll Wrong! Chintaka you are a true thinker. You have waded in cut through the BS of WrongFact:)
Sonia is turning out to be the White Devegowda!
@WrongFact
Don’t throw the usual “Congress style” argument of “True, we are devils but hey, the BJP is no better”. If you haven’t noticed, this post is about how the UPA influenced the economy and not a UPA Vs NDA debate. You can’t convince us to embrace the UPA by giving the Rajastan Reservation case. The fact is that our country’s premier institutions now carry the reservation tag is ample proof that no matter how “elite” the government is, there is always the urge to play petty votebank politics.
We have a spineless and an incapable PM and a FM who is pathetic and the entire UPA, which does not have the nerve and fit only to lick the ass of the italian. Kick out these buffoons
Folks please read this to see how the dream team has been made the scapegoat..
http://www.indianexpress.com/sunday/story/325925.html
Thank you Black Lad. Tavleen Singh is one of my favorite columnists.
@Doddi Buddi,
yup, one of the very few good and unbiased ones left. But unfortunately the kaangi fellows here will conveniently brand her as cheddi and ignore her..
If Inflation has increased so is the salary figures.today you cannot get a person working for you for 150 rs a day also.
I think all BJP supporters seem to say,facts are wrong.Don’t believe facts.Instead they start quoting newspaper reports to substantiate their arguments.
I travel by train quite regularly.I know how cost effective it is.Some body talked about freight charge increase by UPA.Do they even know how much freight charges were increased by NDA?Year after year both passenger and freight charges were increased in Railways by NDA.What about that.
Agree or not,Railways are seeing their golden period now.Check each railway station and see how modernised are they today.If this is not an achievment than i dont know what the above BJP supporters really mean by achievment.
BJP apart from GQ has nothing to boost after.
But the best exemplary visionary work by UPA was to bring RTI act.Its revealing the open face of corruption.
BJP supporters here,can you ever list anything which BJP achieved during its rule?
For those of you who are interested, I suggest you read the following article.
PRICES RISING
DUE TO RECKLESS PRINTING OF MONEY
You may get it on http://www.indianinflation-uncontrollable.com
The current discussion is going on in today’s context. WE have not bothered to see who has driven the economy to this state.
I suggest it is only correct to get over the party politics and think right. Anyone who looks at one side of the matter is using just one half of his/her brain. We seem to have a serious problem. I would say thanks to chamelion like PC.
Chintaka, you have analysed the facts correctly. Thanks.
Chintaka and all his supporters
You guys gotta admit it. NDA took the economy on to the brink of disaster.
Today if the economy is looking robust it is only because of UPA.
Notice how BJP grabbed power in 1996 when it did not have majority. And thereafter it fell within 13 days.
Notice how JDU-BJP grabbed power in Bihar after the last assembly elections,even when RJD was the biggest party.
Notice how Rajiv Gandhi did not grab power in 1989 inspite of cong being the single largest party
Notice how Cong did not team with JDS again after BJP was ditched by JDS in karnataka.
The fact is: BJP is willing to compromise on anything to stick to power. Cong just wont do it.
Chintaka
Stop frothing at the mouth at the very mention of the word “Congress”.
Who bought Abu Salem to India? Why didn’t NDA extradite him?
Who caught Abdul Telgi? Why didn’t NDA do it?
Do u know ho many Muslim terrorists were convicted in the Mumbai and Coimbatore blasts case?
Do you know Afzal Guru is on waiting list 16th among those sentenced to death by supreme court? Just because the BJP has a blood lust, you cannot jump 15 other people.
Why is BJP so soft on Muslim terrorists while Congres is harsh?
You just gotta use your brain. instead of getting yourself in a knot and spewing forth incoherent logic.
***
and to set the record straight : 100s of muslims have been convicted in the mumbai and coimbatore blasts case. go check any newspaper.
just because congress does not talk about it, does not mean that they are not convicing terrorists.
Chintaka
NDA rather unimaginatively hiked price of petrol and diesel 34 times during its tenure. What kind of poor economics is that….when petrol was a tame 30$ per barell?
I sudder to imagine what NDA would have done if it was in UPA’s place when the price of petrol has touched 135$ per barrell? It gives me the creeps!
Why didnt NDA think of waiving 70,000 crore to farmers?
Why didnt NDA increase support price of wheat?
Why didnt NDA decrease fertilizer prices like UPA did a few days back?
WHy didnt NDA guarantee employment at least for 100 days like UPA did?
WHy didnt NDA have the grand vision to think of a scheme like RTA?
It is sad that every time congress comes and shores up the economy, the BJP comes and spoils it.
Black Lad,
Don’t worry. These Congress supporters are total retards! When they have been hit with a heavy stick called reason they are running away mouthing inane comments and shit! :)
My favorite ‘backward’ is ThinkSir. He is our own ‘Chemical Ali’…
DB,
“Sonia is turning out to be the White Devegowda!”
haha you got me guffawing on that one.
It appears the website has been corrupted. Politicians seem to be writing in disguise.
// just because congress does not talk about it, does not mean that they are not convicing terrorists. //
why cant they talk about it if they are doing it?
about coimbatore blast case – both congress and communists in kerala assembly demanded release of Madhani, prime accused, when trial was going on. The DMK government in TN gave Madhani star comforts in jail.
@Hello….
In the 1984 elections, Rajeev’s CONgress had won a massive 400+ seats. I dont remember the exact number. But in 1989, the same party under the same leadership was reduced to less than 200 members in Loksabha. Now, that is a drop of more than 100%. Do you still think Rajeev Gandhi GAVE UP the power??? My friend, he was kicked out of the power. Plain and simple.
Same happened in Bihar when your Railway poster boy Laloo got kicked out.
chintaka
what about BJP getting into power in UP.
it broke congress and violated all laws(1/3rd members support) etc etc to come to power.
Yes, we had a Dream Team at our service. But, we did not get the performance we expected from them. Who is to be blamed here? Nobody else, but us. When 5 MLAs can create so much flutter, think abt a 20-odd party coalition. Each party has its grey shades. A coalition just adds it up and makes it black. We should be looking forward to a 2-party system for any progress to happen – dream team or not.
@Hello…
I think you spoke a little too soon. For the Rajya Sabha Elections, Cong & JD (S) are joining hands!!!!!
Another thing….
You said Rajeev Gandhi didnt grab power etc etc
What happened in Karnataka last time? JDS and CONgress joined hands, even though they were not the parties with the largest numbers. Correct???
Now you will say they came together to keep the communal BJP out. But if the people have voted for communal BJP, who are these people to keep them out??????? If they really had any morality left, they should have gone back to the electorate and asked for a new verdict. The fact that they didnt do and chose the easy way out shows clearly what stuff they are made of.
Mind you, I am not saying that BJP is beyond all these. They may also do the same… this is politics of today.
@ThinkSir………THINK
1. The official spokesperson of Congress, Manish Tiwri, says NDA raised the fuel prices by 17 times during their regime. The unofficial spokespersons here are saying it was 34 times!!! Exactly the double… holier than the king, eh????
2. The process for extraditing Abu Salem was on during NDA regime Sir. Please check your facts. Since Protugese court was putting a lot of stumbling blocks for extradition, it got delayed and he came to India during the UPA rule. Thats all….
3. Catching Telgi, do you call this achievement??? If you look at the people who helped him to mastermind the scam, some of the biggest names in Congress and NCP will come out!!! For instance, current Cong MLA from Shivajinagar, Roshan Baig, was named by Telgi as one of the prominent politican who helped him to carry out this scam. So there you go Sir…
Plus, please remember, catching a culprit is the job of the police and the government of the day. No brownie points for having done their job.
4. There are times when a government has to do a job and there are times when the government should also look like doing its job. In the present case, neither the government is doing its job nor is it appearing to be doing its job!!!
I dont know the backgrounds of the 15 people who are waiting on the death row But I can confidently say that none of their crimes can be more heinous than what this terrorist did, attacking the parliament. Agreed, it might have happened during the BJP rule. Fact is he got arrested, tried and was sentenced. Now by the time the sentencing could be carried out, the new government came.
By postponing the punishment the government is giving out a clear indication that punishing terrorists equals to punishing muslims. They are scared of their vote bank. Infact Farooq Ahamed even went to the extent of saying that Valley will burn if Afzal Guru is hung. Now tell me who is soft???
Also ThinkSir, think. When you punish a terrorist like Afzal Guru, you are sending out a very clear message to the would be terrorists that we mean business. That is the reason his execution is assuming all the more importance. I hope you can THINK this out…
5. Loan waiver, support price, reduction in price of fertiliser etc were steps taken by the government in an election year.
Now you tell me, farmers were dying due to loan problem from a long time. What prevented Mr.PC not to give them comfort level at an earlier point of time???? Plus the max number of farmer’s death happened in Vidarbha, a state ruled by CONgress. Now you get the point????
Remember the massive loan melas held by J Poojary in the 80’s?? who were the beneficiaries?? Do you really think the money reached the needy? Similar is the case with this 100 day employment programme. This is a massive fraud perpetrated by the government wherein the money is being pocketed by the middle men. A small consolation here too is the fact that BJP led states are implementing this scheme in an honest and better manner as compared to Congress led states. And no Sir, this is not my figment of imagination. The government reports say so.
Now you are saying that BJP spoils the economic scenerio built up so painfully by the Congress. Again ThinkSir, think. The current government is leaving behind a huge and I mean a really HUGE deficit on account of oil bonds. Plus the loan waiver. Plus in its eagerness to please the govt employees, it is likely to increase the salaries of the Babus. Now if BJP comes to power next time around, for five years they will first have to undo the damage done by PC and his team before they start performing.
ThinkSir….think
I had forgotten to mention one small piece of information.
When NDA came to power, a barrel of oil was costing about 10$ and when they were booted out, it was trading at 34$ to a barrel.
Please note this point too. This means in the five years of NDA rule, the internatioal oil prices surges by about 240%.
So instead of looking at how many times the petrol prices were raised, it would be pertinent to know by what quantum it was raised. If NDA has increased the prices by about 17 times, again something as quoted by OFFICIAL Congress spokesperson, you must also know that the prices got hiked by a small margin each time. Now you will agree with me that increasing the price by small margins is healthy for the consumer and the seller.
For the consumer because he gets used to the price hike and it will not cause serious problems. Emotionally he will be more tuned to accept this hike.
For the seller because he will not keep on sustaining loss on account of lower prices. Now look at the mess UPA has created. Their dogged refusal to increase the prices periodically has left the oil companies with a huge burden. Plus reckless issuing of oil bonds has only aggravated the problem for the next government.
Also, if by chance, UPA comes back to power in 2009, PC will hike the taxes to such an extent that it will be impossible for the common man to live peacefully. You see, he has got another 5 years before he could fool people like you with loan waivers and reduced fertiliser prices etc. Who cares how he loots people in the first four years.
Right ThinkSir??? Think about this!!!!
What you guys are evading is this stark fact – The impact of oil price rise is yet to fall on Indians. Oil bonds and under-recoveries worth over 2 lakh crores are waiting for a future govt to shoulder. Clever Palaniappan shifted the burden to save his image as a “brilliant” FM who comes up with nothing less than “Dream” budgets.
Wow! Are people actually seriously debating the possibility of one political formation being better than the other!!! Forget about being better they arent even different from each other in any way other than their names-
UPA- NDA/ Cong-BJP!
Some FACTS & FIGURES for UPA admirers:
Disturbing Facts
Laloo Prasad claimed the railways made a profit of Rs 21,578 crores.
Actual profits work out to Rs 11,000 crores.
Rs 9000 crores pension fund shown as profits.
Miscellaneous funds – Rs 2,500 crores included in profits.
Rs 1,700 crores meant for lease of wagons reflected as profits.
Profit figures inflated by advance earnings for 2007-8 in last year’s balance sheet.
Funds promised by Finance Ministry, but not yet received, included as profits.
Excess tonnage carried ignoring safety concerns fetched Rs 5000 crores.
Hidden costs to passengers earned Rs 325 crores.
The Subterfuge
The railway under Laloo has altered the way the balance sheet is presented. It has shown a remarkable creativity to artificially inflate revenues while at the same time degrading the quality of service. Consider the following:
Diluting Tatkal. 10 % seats meant for those traveling in emergency earned Rs 100 per ticket. This has now been changed to 30 % seats with a surcharged of Rs 250 per ticket.
Declaring Trains Superfast. Over 100 trains have been declared Superfast without any change in running time or facilities. The Superfast tag fetches Rs 75 crores.
Doubling Cancellation Charge. Added profits Rs 100 crores.
Costlier Return Tickets. Profits Rs 30 crores.
Onward Journey More Expensive. One can no longer buy a single ticket if one has to change trains for an onward destination.
Safety Surcharge. Was to be levied only upto Mar 2007, Laloo converted it to ‘Development Surcharge’ without cabinet approval. Profits 2,500 crores.
Licence Fee. Rs 550 crores for running container trains converted to profits.
If you dig deep into facts given by Wrongfact all might turn out to be Wrong-Facts :)
Bangalore Boy is just unable to digest that Laloo can actually deliver Indian railways mind boggling profit. Hence he comes up with inane calculations.
If he really believes in what he says, what is preventing the BJP to go to court, saying Laloo is giving false figures?
Truth is you cannot because you know NDA did not deliver..and UPA did deliver.
You can get into the nitty gritty, by pointing silly faults, but the fact is UPA revolutionized railways. The best Management institutes around the world and in India are not fools to invite Laloo to lecture on railways.
The first fact: UPA reduced fares, made profits.
The second fact: NDA did not reduce fares, and made losses. It was a double whammy for the aam admi. POOR SHOW BY NDA
If one goes through the performance of railways under NDA, worse number of faults can be pointed out.
As far as Chintaka is concerned, not how he never replies to the very first mail I wrote, point by point. He just obfuscates the whole ‘economic’ issues by going off tangent and talking about ‘terrorism”
@Gaby,
this is a cynical view to take, one party is no different from the other. While all political parties have to necessarily work under certain constraints and compulsions, the values in which they believe will set them apart.
@The CONgress spokesperson AKA Wrong Facts,
Technically what Lalloo did was not wrong. Technically. But if you ask whether it is the right way to do things, you will get a resounding answer, NO.
For instance, if you look at your own personal budget, you have set aside some amount of money for your retired life. If you use that money today lavishly and tom-tom to the whole world, the world will believe you. But you are doing yourself a great injustice because you will live in misery during your old ages. This is what fudging of accounts does.
Lalloo is doing it. By passing on the burden of Oil Bonds, PC is doing it. And people like you are ecstatic about this because of your limited vision.
Agree????
Chintaka
In 1989, Rajeev Gandhi got 190 odd seats. His party was the single largest party. Yes, there was a drop in the seats, yet MORE NUMBER OF PEOPLE in INDIA preferred Congress than the assortment of small parties including BJP.
Yet Rajeev never claimed he had the first right to rule (just because his party was single largest party). BJP claimed this exact reason to sit in the seat of power of 13 days when not a single MP supported them apart from their own MPs.
BJPs naked lust for power was evident in this 13 day affair. So also in the previous Bihar elections when RJD was not given the chance to rule by a dummy governor appointed by NDA. Even though RJD was the single largest party and the single largest group, he was conveniently ignored, flaouting all rules.
JDS ditched BJP twice, yet BJP was ready to sup with JDs again. Even now desperate attempts are being made to woo Siddharamiah and others from Congress. BJP leaders go around tom tomming that Siddhu will be given an important cabinet post, if he joins. This is the height of political opportunism!
BJP was the first party to ‘adulterate’ indian politics on a scale never witnessed before. Around 20 political parties of diverse ideologies were given cabinet rankings, just to help BJP sit in power. BJP was so desperate for power that it was conveniently willing to sacrifice all that it stood for. Ram Temple, minority appeasement, Artricle 370 and other issues became non-issues, because the PRIMARY GOAL WAS : POWER. POWER AT ANY COST.
IT was power at any cost for BJP. Principles? Morals? what’s that?
Chintaka
Railways is not in debt! It has made massive profits! What has oil bonds got to do with INdian railways? you have not given any convincing reply as to how Future travellers of Indian railways have to pay for the populism of Laloo!
Chintaka, with his grandiose vision states:
For instance, if you look at your own personal budget, you have set aside some amount of money for your retired life. If you use that money today lavishly and tom-tom to the whole world, the world will believe you. But you are doing yourself a great injustice because you will live in misery during your old ages.
Chintaka, you are better advised to give your gems of wisdom to BJP. here goes.
Did you know that the BJP govt. in Gujarat is one of the worst fiscally managed states in the country? It has a debt running into 90,000 crore. Around 25% of the states revenues are spent in paying interest!!!!!!howzzat for prudent economics?
Contrast this with Railways sterling performance. No liabilities, yet lesser fares for consumer! Indeed fantastic!
Talking about fudging, you should realise that the BJP CM of Gujarat, grandly stated that his state contributed 40,000 crore to the central exchequer, while his state got back only 2.5% of it. This lie was nailed, when Manish Tiwari, showed through his statistics that Gujarat got 25% back and not 2.5% as claimed by BJP. BJP never replied to Manish Tiwari’s statistics knowing that their fudging was caught red handed.
Also, if you compare the money given to Gujarat by NDA in its five years and then compare it with what UPA has given Gujarat..there is a gigantic difference. UPA has given 25% more money to Gujarat than NDA did. If you insist, i can give the exact figures…go check!”
BJP in karnataka is giving Rice at Rs. 2 a kilo, thereby burning a big hole in the states exhequer. It is giving loans at interest of 3% to weavers and farmers, making the economy weaker. The list of populist measures is endless, all of which may sound good now, but will impact the future in a huge way.
So its better you swallow your own words ” If you use that money today lavishly and tom-tom to the whole world, the world will believe you. But you are doing yourself a great injustice because you will live in misery during your old ages.”
ThinkSir, you are not thinking… how sad….
Being the single largest party does not necessarily make them eligible for power. You see, from 400 odd seats when they come down to 180 odd seats, it means they have lost the trust of the people. Remember RK Hegde??? If you can think that long time back, here is what happened. He won the vidhana Sabha election. But when Congress won all the seats in Karnataka in the next loksabha election, he owned up for the defeat. Resigned from the post, got reelected. Now you will understand why I made that comment.
Rajeev didnt claim for power because he was no fool. He could gauge the mood of the nation at that point of time. The nation was with VP Singh at that point of time. If he had gone against this, chances were he would have been reduced to a fool later on. Infact, this is precisely why your Madam didnt allow for a tie up with JDS post election, though numberwise, Cong + JDS were higher than BJP.
A sympathetic governor from NDA???? Man, how many times has this happened with Congies??? Remember Romesh Bhandary? Remember Rizvi? Remember Goa? Remember Chattisgarh??? Like I said, you have not put on your thinking cap. If you had done so, you would have realised that Cong has a history of such misdeeds. There is a saying, those who live in glass houses….. you know this already, dont you????
Indian politics has changed a lot since the landslide victory of Cong in 1984. Emergence of regional parties like SP, RJD, TDP etc have ensured that a national party getting a majority on its own has become a dream. It applies to Cong and BJP both. Plus the powerful regional chieftains like Mulayam, Karunanidhi/Jayalalitha, Laloo, Chandra Babu Naidu (before him NTR) have again ensured that they will win their states on their own merit and then demand their pound of flesh later in power. If you say BJP was the first party to bring in 20 odd parties, gave them cabinet berths and ensured that it stayed in power, Cong continued that tradition.
Plus, there is one big difference here. Had you given a little more thought to this, you would have got this on your own. BJP entered into a political pact with these parties BEFORE the election unlike Congress which thought it was political opportunism to collect a bunch of parties AFTER the election to get power.
Also, if you look at the seat difference between BJP and Congress in the current loksabha, I think it is about 7 or 8. BJP has about 138 members and Cong, 145 (correct me if I am wrong about the numbers, but the difference cannot be more than this). So effectively speaking, a mere 7 additional members gave your madam a chance to rule this nation!!!!
If you were following the election campaign, you will know this. Advani had categorically stated that there would be no further tie ups with JDS and BJP stuck to its word. They didnt take anyone from JDS, have they??? So where is the question of supping it upto them????
As a government which is ruling the nation, the first and the foremost duty is to preserve communal harmony. Forcefully bringing in uniform civil code will lead to a lot of blood shed in the country. So, it was prudence on the part of the BJP to avoid it. Ram temple will be built, no doubts about that. Question of time perhaps. Scrapping of Article 370 will certainly happen if BJP gets a majority of its own. Till then, it has to keep these issues on the backburner. Nothing wrong with that. A tactical warrior will abide for his time before he can strike. That is called intelligence. That is called Thinking.
ThinkSir… are you thinking????
Chintaka
You must realise what you sow, so shall you reap.
1. When BJP sat in power for 13 days, did they have a pre-poll alliance (since you claim that NDA was a pre poll alliance, I ask you: Why was the BJP in a hurry to grab the PMs chair when there was neither pre poll nor post poll alliance)
2. It is completely wrong to state that UPA was a post poll alliance. As usual the fact is wrong. Congress has alliances with all the parties in the UPA. From RJD to DMK to TRS to PMK to MDMK to NC to LJP…just check out…the facts dear sir, instead of flinging wild stories.
3. You keep saying Rajeev Gandhi lost the trust of the people in 1989. How is trust measured? In numbers right? In spite of the defeat, (yes i concede it was a defeat) Congress managed to get MORE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN INDIA TO TRUST ITS PARTY, than the mixed motley of disparate smaller parties. In elections, remember, everything is relative. Cong had a substantially MORE NUMBER OF PEOPLE TRUSTING its policies than BJP. Cong got a huge 190 compared to a poor 85 odd seats of BJP.
4. Of course, Congress has misused its Governors . Now, BJP is doing the same. Which is what i keep saying. BJP became a congress party long back. BJP is thrusting on our people all the negatives of Congress.
5. You say, Cong got 145 and BJP got 138. Right, who is denying that? Both UPA was street aheads of NDA, in numbers. And Cong being the biggest party of UPA, naturally formed the govt.
6. Contrary to what Advani has said about BJP having no truck with JDS, their own party supporters including Swapan Das Gupta, have gone on record to state that it would make sense to do business with JDS keeping lok sabha elections in mind. EVen a lot of the top brass are working towards the same. In fact Swapan even suggested that BJP should invite JDS to be a part of the govt, from a position of strength.
7. BJP HAS NEVER GOT A MAJORITY EVER IN INDIAN ELECTIONS. FORGET ABOUT 273, THEY HAVEN’T EVEN CROSSED 200! so you agree it was a tactical move to shed their morals for the sake of power! Its like saying that a confirmed veggie will become a non vegetarian for a few years for the sake of strategic move
…for the sake of personal wealth and power, i ask you chintaka, will you change your caste? your religion? your principles? your morals?
When you are ready to shed your distinct ideology for the sake of power, it does not say much about your party, no amount of hollering and shouting profanities at me will help.
Chintaka, when will you start thinking?
Chintaka, do some Chintan
1. Whether it is 17 or 34 times, the fact is NDA raised petrol prices several times more than UPA and that too when petrol was raised by only 240%, compared to a MASSIVE 450% during UPA. So you must be relieved that we have Manmohan Singh as a PM.
2. You missed the point about Abu Salem. I was saying that Cong got Abu Salem’s extradition (even if BJP started the proceedings). The myth that Cong is into minority appeasement is blown apart. Here’s why:
a)Otherwise they would not have caught Abu Salem.
b)Or Abdul Telgi.
c)Or the 100s Muslims convicted in the MUmbai and Coimbatore bomb case.
d)Cong even did not support Abdul Kalam for a second term of president. e)Cong threw out Najma Heptullah out of Congress.
f)Cong has got into a nuclear deal with US (and muslims are supposedly opposed to any deal with US) There are 100s of instances which show Cong is not into minority appeasement at all. Yet you don’t seem to be doing any chintan at all, Chintaka.
4. The govt. is not appearing to do its job, because it has lost the skills of communication. Cong has to COMMUNICATE. otherwise people who have lost the ability to do chintan will continue to believe the stale and staple propaganda served by NDA.
5. There is no provision in the constitution to jump 15 others to hang somebody the BJP wants to. You say : Also ThinkSir, think. When you punish a terrorist like Afzal Guru, you are sending out a very clear message to the would be terrorists that we mean business. That is the reason his execution is assuming all the more importance. I hope you can THINK this out
Tell that to the BJP.
They sent a wrong message to the world when they weekly catapulated and graciously hosted terrorists on to Kandahar. Please do chintan on this. Such a soft approach will not do the nation good. You should be ready to take on the bullets like Indira Gandhi and Rajeev Gandhi, instead of weekly submitting to the terrorists.
Besides, Afzal Guru will eventually be hanged, only 15 people before him have to be hanged first. So your case goes for a put.
6. NDA left a poor revenue and budget deficit. UPA had to shore it up.
Thinker you have made super points against ‘Ketta Vishayagalu’ aka WrongFact:) Clearly WrongFact is a raving schizophrenic of the Kangress variety! He conveniently forgets the fact that UPA has done jack shit in governance!!
wrong fact, can you quote much did your beloved Lalu spent on the maintenance and repair on railways?
Investment on maintenance has been reduced greatly. Thousands of bridges are crying for repair. Added to their woes, Lalu has increased the number of trains for the sake of populism. He is showing this money as a part of profit.
Lalu’s dream project in railways is just to connect his ancestral village to that of his wife’s. The project connecting these two villages has run into trouble because of Lalu’s own brother, who with some goondas has stopped the work on a part of the line accusing Lalu and railways of taking away his lands.
Can you justify these kind of corrupt and nepotist acts of your beloved Lalu?
Pragmatic
The investment and maintenance was shoddy during NDA. More than 1000s of bridges were under repair under NDA.
Nitish Kumar, under the benign eye of NDA, used the railways to connect everything to his home state. Corrupt and nepotism is a feature of every govt. that does not mean railways has made fantastic profits, has ensured prices have fallen for common man, has delighted corporates with efficient freight service.
What did the NDA Do? ABsolutelty ZILCH!
oh really? Did Nitish Kumar lay rails to his wife’s village?
did he fudge the profit figures? Did his relatives travel in rail without tickets?
nitish kumar laid rails to his home state while neglecting to lay rails to karnataka. he jacked up prices of rail tickets – while laloo bought it down. Nitish kumar gave us a railways which was in deep shit..which laloo turned around.
if laloo has fudged, take him to court. don’t keep making baseless allegations. Are you challenging the worlds best management institutes who invited laloo to lecture on railways? they knew all this fudge talk is BJP propaganda without an iota of truth.are you challenging the experts who say that laloo has transformed railways? are you challenging the white paper on railways? truth is NDA did not know how to handle railways while laloo has been a runaway success.
Laloo did not ask his relatives to travel free of cost. Certainly not like the erstwhile petroleum miinster who gave petrol bunks to his relatives and RSS chaps. That was height of nepotism, which was caught by court and canceled all the allotments.
Wow Chintaka you call me a cynic. But you believe that black is white when you say political formations have VALUES! What do I call you – A dreamer, a deluded person or simply a nice but naive person.
Dharam Singh + HDD leading to HDK + Yeddi leading to Yeddi + HDK leading to chaos leading to Yeddi + Independent leading to GOK. Pray tell me where are the values you speak of. Look at the flip flops of the Dravida parties, SP, BSP in the differrent political alliances leading to political power! Where is the value located- Lichenstein or Switzerland!
@CONgress spokesperson AKA WrongFact,
Was out of office the whole day… will come back tom with all the replies….
@Gaby,
I am not a dreamer… but not a cynic too.. when I said political parties have values, I meant it. Unfortunately, the present formations we have and the happenings around us will not permit us to believe it. But I firmly believe that parties like BJP can make a difference if they are elected to power on their own.
@ WrongFact
you say that “Bangalore Boy is just unable to digest that Laloo can actually deliver Indian railways mind boggling profit. Hence he comes up with inane calculations.”
If you give figures they are facts, if someone else gives its inane calculations!!
You have got a very opt pen-name, which suits your argumnets.
BTW they are not the figures which I have come up with, they are from ‘Outlook’ magazine
Yes Chintaka political formations like the BJP can make a difference if they elected to power , like you say on their own – which fortunately will never happen in India in this age. Also depends on what you call as a difference- an obsessive preoccupation with Ram mandirs and Ram Sethus ( BTW we Kannadathis call him Rama ) I suppose!
Bangalore Boy
Read the outlook article properly. It does not say anywhere that railways is making loses. It says railways is making lesser profits than claimed by the railway ministry. Even if that can be debated, Outlook does concede that railways is DEFINITELY making profits.
This surely is an improvement on NDAs performance!!!!!!!!!
Want to hear more on this? watch this space.
Chintaka
Tsk tsk….you seem to have an irrational soft corner for BJP …you actually believe that BJP can make a difference iIF THEY COME TO POWER ON THEIR OWN!
Right,
1. They came to power on their own in Delhi state. this surely made a lot of difference. Hence Ms. Sushma Swaraj was thrown out after just one term as CM. So scared were people of the BJP coming back to power in Delhi state that the people gave sheila dixit a second term
2. They came to power on their own in Rajasthan (bhairon singh shekawat) and Madhya Pradesh (Sunderlal Patwa)…they were thrown out of power in both the states after just one term .
3. They came to power on their own in Himachal Pradesh and were thrown out of power after just one term.
Remember, wherever BJP has ruled (with a complete majority), people have thrown them out of power after just one term (except Gujarat). Meanwhile Congress got re-elected in Maharashta two times successively, in Delhi two times successively, in Madhya Pradesh two times successively.
We have seen what BJP can can do when they are not in majority. Here is a list of their grand achievements, which certainly can make a difference to the people.
1. No president of any party has been caught red handed accepting a bribe. The BJP truly showed it can make a difference, when its national president was caught on tape, accepting money from an arms dealer. Where is that gentleman now? The BJP is so ashamed of him, they have banished him from the limelight.
2. No other party (in the last 10 years) has been wreaked with such intense dissidence in their party. The BJP has had the maximum number of chief ministers revolting (remember, this in states, where they got majority). Here is a list of BJP CMs who have cared two hoots for party discipline: Keshubhai Patel, Suresh Mehta, Shankar Singh Vaghela, Madan Lal Khurana, Kalyan Singh, Uma Bharati, Babulal Marandi……Surely, chintaka you need to do elaborate chintan on this party which is falling apart.
3. BJP has the maximum number of MPs caught in the MPLAD scam. BJP has the maximum number of MPs caught in the cash for questions scam. The list of MPs with criminal charges are the highest among BJP MPs.
4. BJP is as much into minority appeasement as Cong. Jinnah was praised, Abdul Kalam was made president. Rs.100 crore was allotted to minority fund in Karnataka. BJP (and not a coincidence that supposedly Indian Muslims too) opposes nuclear deal with US.
I think this is enough for starters. Mull about it. The point is you need to nourish your brain with facts now and then. Facts which prove that BJP has surely made a difference. See the above facts. Also, more will follow.
@Gaby,
BJP has an agenda, of building Rama Mandira. They also want to protect Rama Sethu.
Is there anything wrong with that?? We talk about, preservation of our history,our culture. Dont we. Rama, whether you consider him as God or as another mythological character is different, is very much a part of our history and culture. When an invader comes and destroys the place and desecrates the temple where crores have some sort of belief, dont you think it is wrong?? Nowhere in the world you can find such atrocities being condoned so easily as in India.
The scare in the minds of the people is irrational. BJP is as much for progress as it is for Rama Mandira and Rama Sethuve.
@CONgress spokesperson AKA WrongFacts…(do you see how nicely these two terms compliment each other????!!!!!)
Boy, I have a soft corner towards BJP. A very soft corner. However, it is not irrational. It is not without reason. It is not without logic.
During 1989, I was the person who cheered for V P Singh much more than BJP. I clapped for him with all my youthful enthusiasm when he came to Bangalore and delivered a very good speech at the National College grounds. And in that election, I had even voted for his party ( I dont remember what that party was called, Janata Dal, I suppose).
So, from cheering a person who is the poster boy of secularism and minority appeasement, if I have to veer towards BJP, it is not without reason. And reason is something which the Congies cannot understand considering the blind faith they repose on the first family of the party, without out the family doing anything for the party!!!!
You say BJP governments have been thrown out of power. After the first term. No issues. In a democracy it happens. If the people of the state feel that BJP is not doing enough for them, they have every right to throw them out.
Having said that, it is also equally true, that these states have reelected the same BJP governments with equal gusto the next term. Diggy raja lost in MP, Gehlot lost in Rajasthan, Veerabhadra singh lost in HP. Now if you see, these are the states which have the same BJP govt in place.
You are one of the people who is vigouroulsy defending your Sonia Amma to the core when the prices of ALL the commodities are going thru the roof. If you care to go back a little in the history, you will know the main culprit in the downfall of BJP government was the increase in the prices of ONIONS!!!! The channels of the day went against the government because onions were expensive. The congies capitalised on that and won. Sheila Dixit is one of those rare chief ministers from the CONgress who is actually performing. People of Delhi saw that and they voted her back to power, like people of Gujarat did for Modi. I appreciate that.
BJP took its birth in the year 1980. Now it is 2008. In a short span of 28 years, this party has grown from strength to strength. Across India. From a mere two seats in 1984, they came to power in 1999. That is a remarkable achievement for any party. When growth like this happens, there are bound to be differences amongst the party men. So it was in BJP. Uma Bharati walked out, Madan Lal Khurana walked out, Govindacharya walked out. Inspite of all these, the party is only growing in strengths. That shows a lot about the character of the party.
Unlike the CONgress. If ever there was a great PM from Cong, it was PV Narasimha Rao. Look at the kind of treatment meted out to him by the party. They didnt even allow him to be cremated in Delhi, giving him a place alongside other PMs of this country. Nowhere do you hear the name of this great person, who pulled congress from the brink of disintegration post rajiv’s death and made it a strong party. He changed the economic story of this country with his vision. But…..
Some of the greatest corruption in the history of this country have happened when Cong was in power. If you go through what happened during the bofors scam, you will run to cover your face. That was the kind of things Rajeev and his coterie did to cover up the scam. Compared to that, this MPLAD scam, cash for questions etc seems like child plays. I am not condoning them, mind you. They are wrong. But they are like kids who commit a mistake without knowing how to cover up!!!! CONgress is for a change, PRO in this!!!!
Minority appeasement is not hanging Afzal Guru. Minority appeasement is giving haj subsidy. Minority appeasement is not brining in uniform civil code. Minority appeasement is not signing the nuclear deal because the muslims of this country get offended. Minority appeasement is setting up a commission to forcefully give jobs to muslims in govt sector.
Now do you get the picture????
The outlook article concedes that the railways profit was around Rs.11,000 crore as opposed to 21,500 crore.
Laloo never claimed all of Rs. 21,500 crore was available for investment. He only said that it was a profit. It still holds true. He has never lied.
11,000 crore is still a fantastic sum. Of course Laloo increased the tatkal charges, the cancellation charges and the charges on superfast trains..but these are special services..and hence you better pay up more for better service or for cancellation…
Laloo took four simple steps to make profits:
1) Increased load carried by freight trains by 8 tonnes – this was a brilliant move because officials were anyway carrying increased load illegally. Laloo made it official..therefore, the money which was being made by corrupt officials went to the railways! Genius of a move!!!!!!!!!!1
Safety was a concern because of increased load. But when trains were already overloaded without causing any major mishaps, where iwas the cause for concern? Besides, the profits earned would eventually ploughed back into the railways infrastructure to make it safe.
2) Laloo increased the turnaround time of wagons from 7 days to 5 days
3) Laloo ensured that railways got more revenue from passengers availing special services
4) Laloo sold advertising space in stations and trains.
The best part is, this year, Laloo did not increase freight rates at the same time, brought drown passenger fares….Indeed incredible.
“The railways’ renaissance has been engineered by simple entrepreneurial practices, which have evoked the admiration of internationally renowned institutions and companies alike,” said a report by KPMG, which also conducted an international conference on railways in New Delhi last month.
Chintaka
At least we share something in common. In 1989, in my heady days of youth, I too had supported VP Singh. I was very anti-congress till then. But you see the Congress has changed in the last ten years.
IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, PLEASE NOTE : IN THE LAST TEN YEARS The BJP has become more like the congress
1)rampant dissidence – 10 BJP CMs revolting
2) rampant corruption – BJP MPs and CMs caught in a slew of scandals
3) shedding principles for sake of power – sleeping with anybody for power
4) rampant criminals – check the 2004 MPs statistics..BJP has got max.
5) rampant dynasty politics – from rajnath singh to jaswant singh to vasundhara raje’s son to pramod mahajans daughter ..all are into active politics, some of whom are holding positions as MLAs and MPs.)
6) rampant nepotism (favours to relatives doled out at will
7) rampant minority appeasement (already justified this bit in last mail. Also if Cong sends Muslims on Haj, then according to mid-day, Katta Subramanya Naidu reportedly sent Muslims to Ajmer Darga, free of cost!!!!!!!!!!)
IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, PLEASE NOTE IN THE LAST TEN YEARS THE congress has become more like the BJP
:1) ( less dissidence as opposed to ten CMs of BJP revolting, no CM from Congress revolted except Karunakaran)
2) less corruption
3)less criminals
4) less minority appeasement ( Cong is going ahead with Nuclear deal even if it angers indian muslims, Cong did not support abdul kalam. Cong threw out Najma, Cong did not give ticket to Jaffer sharief. And Afzal Guru will eventually be hanged, so no question of appeasement here. Cong got Abu salem, cong got Abul Telgi).
5) less power hungry – BJP was willing to sacrifice its core ‘ideology’ to sit in power. Congress hasn’t done that.
Yet, inspite of all these magnificent ‘strengths’ of BJP you refuse to see the obvious: it is a party which is decaying.
Besides, you STILL HAVE NOT REPLIED TO THE FOLLOWING:
1. When BJP sat in power for 13 days, did they have a pre-poll alliance (since you claim that NDA was a pre poll alliance, I ask you: Why was the BJP in a hurry to grab the PMs chair when there was neither pre poll nor post poll alliance)
2. It is completely wrong to state that UPA was a post poll alliance. As usual the fact is wrong. Congress has alliances with all the parties in the UPA. From RJD to DMK to TRS to PMK to MDMK to NC to LJP…just check out…the facts dear sir, instead of flinging wild stories.
3. You keep saying Rajeev Gandhi lost the trust of the people in 1989. How is trust measured? In numbers right? In spite of the defeat, (yes i concede it was a defeat) Congress managed to get MORE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN INDIA TO TRUST ITS PARTY, than the mixed motley of disparate smaller parties. In elections, remember, everything is relative. Cong had a substantially MORE NUMBER OF PEOPLE TRUSTING its policies than BJP. Cong got a huge 190 compared to a poor 85 odd seats of BJP.
4) for the sake of personal wealth and power, will you change your principles? forget the very ideals you stand for ?
Chintaka (Or the Spin Doctor of BJP who refuses to see FACTS)
1) According to FACTS, BJP is the biggest SUPPORTER OF DYNASTY POLITICS
They support everybody from Uddhav Thackeray to Omar Abdullah to Naveen Patnaik to Kumaraswamy (for 20 months) to Om Prakash Chautala To Vasundhara Raje (daughter of Vijaya Raje) to Chandrababu Naidu to..never mind..i hope you got the drift now.
It is quite meaningless to keep on pointing fingers at the blind faith congress has in one family when BJP reposes blind faith in its own CM and alliance parties which run purely on DYNASTY. Sheer hypocrisy Chintaka. Do some chintan.
Your arguments bottom out when seen through the prism of FACTS!!!!!!!!!!
2) you again missed the point about BJP being thrown out after one term. The fact is while Congress can get elected twice successively, why has the BJP failed? Even after the rise of BJP nationally, Congress has got elected twice succesively in Assam, Maharashtra, Delhi, MP..why not BJP? Surely,,something must be terribly wrong !!!!!!!!!
3) 28 years is short span? Earlier BJP used to say, in a short span on 5 years , then it was a short span of 12 years, then 18 years,then 22 years now 28 years……..hahaha…the harsh fact is : in 28 years BJPs strength has dwindled from 180 odd seats to 135 seats. thats the harsh fact. stings right?
Also, what is so great about using God’s name to come to power? The only reason that BJP came to power was using Gods name. In a deeply religious country like INdia, it is no big achievement to mix religion with politics and win votes.
4) If BJP is for uniform civil code why then does it give reservations to Gujjars and Jats? why does it support reservations?
Chintaka
Do you think BJP can come to power with its own terms?
Look what happened to BJP in uttarpradesh.Its destroyed there.From 54 LS seats in 1990 today its reduced to mere 10 seats out of 80 seats.
Look at what has happened to BJP in Maharashtra,its now 4th biggest party there after Congress,NCP,Shivasena.
JDU has grown strong in bihar at the cost of BJP.BJP although raised from 2 to 184 seats is again showing the signs of decline.This is what happens when you start crooked methods like Rama mandira to win the elections.
What change are you seeing in BJP government in karnataka atleast now?
All populist measures.Free electricity has just increased State subsidy on Electricity to 2700 crores.I repeat 2700 crores.
There has been a series of populist schemes declared without even thinking that how it could effect the state economy.Every one knows that populist schemes like free electiricty and loan waivers hardly bring developments.
Congress or BJP is no better.all the arguments saying BJP is a party of change is utter bullshit.
Wrongfact: Dont confuse Minority appleasement with catching of few (muslim) criminals. Your congress knows how to!
No other party would sleep with the enemy. Madam forgot about Karu’s LTTE leanings and daughter feels sympothy for father’s assassins. Priyanka should have gone to Srilanka. Why only Nalini?? Congress has taken Indian politics to its basement. Remember, Mr.Gandhi opined to dissolve Congress after Independance?
Sumkirka
Brilliant points. What’s good about you, is that you base your arguments on FACTS.
One more point to what you added about BJPs deterioration. It lost its deposit and came fifth in places where assembly elections were recently held in Haryana!
You can debate with those who base their comments OBJECTIVELY as opposed to those who are brainwashed by spin-doctors.
@CONgress spokesperson AKA WrongFact…..
1. You are getting your facts wrong on dynastic politics. There are cases of the leader’s sons/daughters getting tickets to contest election. Thereafter, it is for them to win the elections. Here lies the difference. You see, a Rahul Gandhi becoming an extra constitutional authority in CONgress is not because of the fact that he is an elected representative. It is because he is Sonia’s Son. That is dynastic politics.
Politicians, from all political parties, try to get a ticket for their sons and daughters to contest elections. Is it wrong?? Debatable. But out of these elected people how many will actually get to raise to the top spot purely on the reason of their birth? Is Sachin Pilot there? Jyotiraditya Scindia? Jitendra Prasada? None from congress party even utter a word in parliament, no power is given to them.
But Rahul baba?? Ah.. he is a different issue (no pun intended!!!) altogether. He says more farmers are to be included in the debt waiver scheme, FM shuts his mouth and says yes.
He says the 100 day employment programme has to be tinkered with, the PM is more than eager to please him.
This is the power of dynastic politics. We see this being played out at state levels too with HDD – HDK, MK – Stalin/kanimozhi/alagiri etc (dont jump on me stating that i have not included ALL the names please).
2. Why BJP not able to get elected twice continously is because thanks to people like you generally and people like you who are in media. When BJP comes to power, each act of theirs is watched very very minutely and all hell will break loose the moment they are perceived to do something wrong. Check what is happening in Karnataka. A farmer dies in shooting. The present govt has got nothing to do with fertiliser shortage. Still they are being blamed. The same media will conveniently forget all the misdeeds of Congies when they are in power. Farmers’ death in Vidharba, security lapses leading to bomb blasts, corruption… everything will take a backseat. No questions asked.
Congies enjoy the first five years based on the past govt’s performance. The next five years they screw up things badly and tastes defeat in the election. The govt coming after this will struggle for five years to set things right and in this process faces a lot flak and media attention. So they never get a chance to be in power for second term!!!!
3. Compared to the grand old lady of the Indian politics, Congress, 28 years is certainly a short term. Hell, even commies have a history longer than 28 years!!!!
Again you are getting your facts wrong. BJP came down from 180 to 135 if you consider 1999 as the base year. If you consider 1980 as the base year, from 1984 which was the first election the party faced, the strength has gone from 2 to 135 ( and you call me spin doctor!!!! Boy o boy, giving a different spin to facts is what is wrong!!!!)
4. Uniform Civil Code does not necessarily bar giving reservation. If you do not know something as simple as this, what can I do??
Chintaka
You know what,instead of arguing the comments you are trying to indulge in abusing the commenter which is not a good sign in any sort of argument.
Comming to the point,if you think media is helping only congress then you are clearly wrong.
Just look at karnataka media.
its open truth that vijaya karnataka acts as a mouth piece of BJP.
Do you atleast know that even a new channel like TV9 is lot biased towards BJP?Tell me which channel supports Congress or JDS in karnataka.
I did not see Udaya or suvarna going overboard over congress.
Argue maDbeku antha maDbeDa.yochane maaDu.
SpinDoc Chintaka
1. You never commented on ThinkSir’s mail about Gujarat CM fudging the facts about only 2.5% money coming back to Gujarat from Centre. Read his blog carefully before you respond.
2. You never commented on why BJP grabbed the PMs chair in 1996 for 13 days when BJP had neither pre or post poll alliance? Even when BJP was openly stating that they were willing to become unprincipled by dropping Ram agenda, not a single MP supported them.
3. Ah now you shifted the goalpost. Earlier you guys used to blurt, ” why should the same person from the family have the right to rule”. Now since every party is into dynastic politics, you now seek to differentiate Congress dynastic politics with other parties’ dynastic politics! Laughably, you also agree that all political parties indulge in this kind of dynastic politics.
But you forgot one thing: While the Gandhi Parivar is democratically elected, the Sangh Parivar is NOT democratically elected. The Sangh Parivar weilds more clout on BJP than Rahul Gandhi has on Congress. The Sangh Parivar is more of an EXTRA CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY than Rahul Gandhi who is democratically elected.
4. Blaming the media is a very lazy reason for BJP not being elected twice successfully. Even the Congress can blame the media for:
a) relentlessly relaying stories about high inflation day in and day out.
b) relentlessly showing the PM as weak and Sonia as the real power behind
c) relentlessly playing up BJPs victories in the recent elections
d) relentlessly taking up Afzal Guru’s hanging even the petition is with President
e) relentlessly playing up terrorist threats in the country.
f) relentlessly showing the Tasleema Nasreen case.
g) relentlessly showing the Nandigram/Singur violence (left is an ally of Cong)
All of which are designed to show Cong in a poor light
5. If Cong screwed up badly in one term, how come they got second successive term in four states?
6. 28 is a short number? Tell Mayawati that, who single handedly won Uttar Pradesh in less than 10 years (compared to a galaxy of so called top leaders in BJP).
7. My FACTS are never wrong. Your interpretation of my FACTS is WRONG. Contrary to propaganda that BJP is a GROWING PARTY, facts show that BJP is actually decaying. Yes of course from 2 to 135 is a growth. By that yardstick, India’s GDP must have grown by 1000% if you take 1947 as the base.
That’s a lopsided way of looking at things. You always compare today’s growth, based on the immediate previous performance. Today BJP is 135, the immediate previous performance is 185. This is what economic experts call NEGATIVE GROWTH! and that is a FACT!
8) As far as I am concerned, uniform civil code means all citizens are treated equally. But in reservations, clearly some sections of society are more equal than others. Why? Why did Karnataka BJP CM give 100 crore allotment to minority fund?
9) finally, read the lead article in Churumuri today. Congress has assigned 100 acres of land to the Hindu Amarnath Shrine. This new development blows your myth into smithereens that Cong is into minority appeasement.
@CONgress spokesperson AKA WrongFact,
1. I have not commented anything about Modi’s claim simply because I dont have the all the facts with me right now. For instance, I know that during 2006-07, Gujarat received Rs.3,763 Crores as a share of Central Govt tax. What is Gujarat’s contribution to the Central Government? I dont know. What is the point in commenting about it? Once I get the info, I will certainly reply.
2. 1996 was a different time. BJP was anathema to all the political parties. Being the largest party in the Loksabha, they certainly had the right to bid for power. They did. When they could not get the support, they went. Where is the need to comment on this???
The situation with Rajeev of 1989 and BJP of 1996 is very different. Here was a party which won 400+ seats and came down to 180 odd seats. And there was this party which had won less than 100 seats and doubled its strength in the next election. While in the first instance, people booted the party out of power, in the second, though the people didnt give full mandate, they said that they believed this party by doubling their strength.
3. I have not shifted the goal post. I am still saying that Congress type of Dynastic Politics is not practiced anywhere else. What is Sonia’s contribution to the country before she became the Congress president? The answer is Rajeev’s widow. Bitter but true. Rahul’s qualification? Son of Sonia. Correct????
Within congress, there are a lot of instances where sons and daughters have become MLAs and MPs. Why is it that they are not dragged into the dynastic issue???
Let me explain you this way. Hope you will understand. See, whether it is Sachin Pilot or Jyotiraditya Scindia or anybody else for that matter, they have got a ticket to contest an election and they did. They won. They became MLAs and MPs. But after becoming so, what is the power they weild? Nil. Zilch. Zero. Why? Because they do not belong to the first family. Compare this with your first family. What Rahul says becomes god’s truth for the spineless congies. They bend backwards to accomodate his wish. Same applies to Sonia. This, my friend is the bane of dynastic politics.
You said about Sangh Parivar’s influence. How many decision you can quote where cabinet has decided to go this way or that based on what Sangh Parivar said?? Quote them and I will reply. BJP’ umbilical chord ties it to its mother, RSS. So taking advice from them is good. But they also know where to draw a line. Either parties. For instance, in the recent Gujarat elections BJP won despite an opposition from a section of RSS. Vajapeyi is known to have sidelined the RSS guys during his tenure as PM.
4. After four years of honeymooning with the cong, media is asking questions to the government now. That too when things are going out of control as far as inflation is concerned.
Do you think media is highlighting the BJP Victory?? You are not reading the newspaper or seeing TV, my friend. It is a bitter acknowledgement from the media and secularists that BJP is winning the state elections. Remember Barkha’s glee filled face when the initial results of Gujarat showed BJP losing ground???? Or the jokes of Dr.Roy?? Rajdeep Sardesai?? If you happened to read Bhupendra Chubeys chat transcripts a few days before the election, he had categorically told that this time in Gujarat Bharat Sinh Solanki will assume power. And prior to the election what did Tehelka do? What did Headlines Today do? Why did NDTV bring all the muslims of gujarat to their studios and recreated the whole issue again???
This is called negative journalism.
I have already answered on Afzal Guru. Now you tell me, between a rapist who is waiting for death penalty and a traitor like Afzal Guru who attacked the parliament, who is worse???? We have 100s of rapists in this country. Only one Afzal Guru. Hanging him out of turn would have shown the terrorists that we mean business. Not dilly dallying the issue with inane utterances like issue is pending before the president. Hell, even the president today is your rubber stamp. She will do what Sonia will ask her to do. Home minister will hasten up the work if it is said by Sonia. Why is she not taking action???
Because MUSLIM VOTES matter my friend. And we have such a spineless bumbler of a home minister that he says asking pardon for Sarabjit is not possible if we demand for Afzal Guru’s hanging. What a warped logic. Are you with him on this??
Let me know your views.
5. Mayawati may have taken 10 years, but she is not the arhcitecht of BSP. Credit should go to Kanshi Ram. She is like your congress. Reaping the fruits of some one else’s hardwork and glorifying herself with all kinds of statues!!!!
6. Not only your facts are wrong, your way of looking at these facts are also wrong. From 2 to 135 is strength my friend. And from 135 to winning 8 states, big ones mind you, not small fries like Goa, BJP is growing. And will continue to grow.
7. A tokenism in the form of granting land will not suffice. Moreover, let us see how successful they are in actually translating this proposal into reality. Already Srinagar is burning. It will not take a long time for Congies to go back on their word since they fear losing MUSLIM votes.
@Sumkirla,
I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. I am giving logic behind my argument. If you cannot see the logic, how can I help.
Regarding the media support to BJP and Congress. For every one Vijaya Karnataka you quote, there are 100s of other papers which thrive on BJP bashing. Since I dont watch TV9, I cant comment on what they show.
Since 2002, the nation is reminded of Gujarat riots at every possible opportunity. Documentaries are made, sickularists cry hoarse about BJP’s involvement in the riots, Modi is vilified to the hilt. If this is not media bias, then what is???
When BJP talks about development, it is constantly bombarded with questions on Ram Temple etc. When it talks about Ram temple, it is branded as communal. Who creates this? Me? You? Or the media???
You were witnessing the pre poll surveys of major televison channels and news papers. None of them gave BJP a chance. You can be wrong once or twice. But you cannot be wrong all the times.
You mentioned about BJP being 4th in Maharashtra. May be true. The rising of regional chieftains in the last 10 odd years will make things even more difficult for BJP and Congress. They will lose their credential as national parties unless they come up with some solid answers. Very fast.
Hindus are minority in J&K. It’s still ‘Minority Appleasement’ on Congress’ part.
SpinDoctor Chintaka (who refuses to see the writing on the wall)
1. If today your salary is Rs. 10,ooo and next year your salary becomes 8000, do you call that growth? This is what happened to BJP. they were 185 in 1999 elections and were down to 135 in 2004. And you stil insist BJP is growing. This is called being in DENIAL MODE. You may have started your job earning Rs. 100, and now you can claim you are earning Rs.8000…but THE FACT is that after the growth, there is a downslide.
The only state BJP has managed to win recently (apart from old ones like Gujarat, Raj, MP and HImachal) is Karnataka. To compensate for that they have lost Uttar Pradesh in a big way. Rest of the states BJP is a suffering minor partner from Bhihar to Orissa to Punjab to Maharashtra. BJP is of no consequence in the states where it is a minor partner.
2. Very convenient for you to claim you know nothing about Modi case, when you cannot justify his statements, factually.
3. In 1996, how could BJP rashly bid for power wthout assessing whether it will get the required majority or not? They were so desperate for that PMs chair, that they went and grabbed it, throwing all morals to the wind. BJP was single largest yes, but it is not the same as majority. that is why they had to face the embarrassment of getting out after 13 days. Rajeev got 190 seats…the single largest party. HIS PARTY GOT THE TRUST OF MORE PEOPLE than the assorted mix of parties. Rajeev, was infact invited by Venkatraman to form the govt. But Rajeev politely declined, knowing that the other parties were ranged against him. BJP too very well knew that all parties treated BJP as untouchable at that time, yet they went and hurriedly GRABBED the chair. Sigh! some principles, some morals.
4. Why was Maneka Gandhi in Vajpayee’s cabinet? Because she was wife of Sanjay Gandhi right? So the BJP too needed the Gandhi name. talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
5. Gandhi Parivar is democratcally elected. Hence they do have a voice in the policies of govt.
Sangh Parivar is not demorcatically elected. Yet, they are given an exalted status in the BJP
This is the true tradition of BJP. Ignore and insult demorcractically elected leaders…while putting non democratic institutions on a pedestal.
NDA govt consulted Sangh Parivar (including RSS) on virtually every big policy. Sangh Parivar constantly interfered in officials postings, in ministers selection and in saffronisation of the education, of virtually everything.
There is no debate on this. Gandhi Parivar has every constitutional right to involve in govt. policy. Sangh Parivar DOES NOT have consitutional rights to involve in govt. policies
Sachin Pilot and Jyothiradhitya Scindia will of course not be on the same footing as Rahul Gandhi. Here’s why:
What was an English-bred Naveen Patnaik’s contribution to Orissa? He did not even know how to speak Oriya. His only qualification when he becamae CM wa that he was Biju Patnaiks son. Yet BJP supports him wholeheartedly and enjoys the laoves and fishes of power in Orissa, while shamleslesly pointing fingers at Gandhi family. Completely shallow and hollow rhetoric.
Rest of your points, i will revert later.
I have been reading through the last one week. I found these interesting. Some times a collection to a Political Science Student. Great Infomation.
The dynastic politics of Congress is something that cannot been seen in many countries than in small autocratic third world countries. They have done this in India is unimaginable. When I see Rahhul talk, I see nothing more than a kid of his age talking. His immaturity cannot be hidden. It is all there to see for a keen observer. Yet his words are respected by most Congress Leaders!
If you read the article on Indian Inflation I had suggested earlier, one would notice that the country started to follow rotten economic policies affter the period of Nehru. What does this mean? Who has driven our economy to this state that we have no option but to leave with it. A society where the rich becomes richer and the poor becomes poorer. We are in a civilised society. Has the Governments of the day ever thought of the implications of this in the society. Yes it is there waiting within the next two years. Social unrest. Intolerance of the Rich by the Poor. Sonia has no time to think as she has a second home in Italy. The so called dream team is playing to the galleries with only winnning the next election as a goal.
The Gujrat riots are played and played back all the time. No one is to forget it forever. How many times the 1984 Sikh massacre is played around. How many media stories are made when the accused were allowed to go scot free? None friends.
We Indians are living in a dangerous situation. We are today respected around the world only due to our numbers. The next reason is our intellectual abilities. We are the biggest economy and are a gold mine to the entire globe. Very soon we have China close to us which could gobble us up.
Let us forget all this and boot out the self serving politicains out of the system.
Hope all agrees with me.
Recently when i was in a european country abroad, one of the collaborators from the European firm asked me, “How is Sonia doing in India?” and as a matter of general discussion, they said such things as a foriegner becoming so influential can never happen anywhere in the world except in perhaps a tiny country in Africa or so. They still believe that Indians are so bizzare that anything can happen here.
We could convince ourselves and others perhaps by calling this a virtue of ours. This shows our magnamity, generousness etc. But is it still right to be so good that if some one wants to chop your head, you bow down in front of him? Do read this para as a general comment.
Even Sri Krishna did not preach this. We have to believe “Karmanyeva adhikaraste, Maa paleshu kadachanaha ……..” Do your duty consciously, Everything will be OK.
Let us come out of our dreams.
Let me say this view of the world is dangeous for us.
Advaith is completely WRONG on his facts.
Sonia Gandhi is not the only so called foreigner who wields so much of influence in one’s country.
In the most powerful country in the world, a migrant black Obama is set to become president of USA.
At least three countries have had Indians as prime ministers and presidents.
SpinDoctor Chintaka
1. If people have delusions that media is anti-BJP I can’t help it. In 1984, when the Sikh riots happened, there was only one TV channel, and that too, it was not a 24 hour channel. News was restricted to half an hour a day. During 2002, there was a media explosion. Obviously the Gujarat riots took centrestage, just as inflation is taking centre stage now, just as nuclear deal is taking centre stage now…
So according to you, the 2000 odd muslims and hindus killed in the riot should have been swept under the carpet? If sikh riots had happened in 2002, i am sure the media would have gone hammer and tongs against the congress, just like they went berserk in trying to nail Manu Sharma, (son of a Congress Minister) in the Jessical Lall case.
There is a chanell called X news..watch it anytime and you can see the blatant BJP slant of the channel. During Karnataka elections, the journalists were only interested in BJPs prospects. Their inhouse psephologist, GVL narasimha rao, appointed by Arun Jaitley do to a survey, openly supports BJP. Although his finally prediction was completely off mark ( he said cong will get 49 seats and JDS 42 seats!) he goes around tom tomming that he was accurate!!!!!!!!!!
2. Its laughable you still think that Afzal Guru is not being hanged because of Muslim votes. There is no consitutional province to differntiate between different kinds of death sentences. In that case, why did Cong grant 100 acres of land to Amarnath Shrine in Kashmir?
Fact is Cong is not after muslim votes at all. Otherwise they would not have seen to it that 100 muslim (and hindu) terrorists were convicted in the mumbai and coimbatore blasts case. Otherrwise they would not not brought back Abu Salem….i have commented on this ad nauseum. Otherwise they would have molly-coddled Jaffer Sharief with a Rajya Sabhi ticket…the list is endless……
3. I will tell you what will give right signals to terrorists. You should have the courage to take on bullets like Indira Gandhi and Rajeev Gandhi…and not weakly, meekly escort them on a plane to Kandahar…While BJP mollycoddles the terrorists, Congress leaders are prepared to die for a cause. (include Punjab CM Beant Singh also in this list)
4. Mayawati is like Congress? Reaping the fruits of someone else? Be prepared for a long list of Congress achievements from giving the nation green revolution to IITs to IIMs to eliminating terrorism in Punjab to opening up the economy for liberalisation to making India a nuclear power (remember Indira Gandhi first conduced tests in 70s and the world was in awe of Indian capabilities then) .if you want the list..then be prepared to read a 1000 page document.
Fact is you don’t like facts. You pick and choose facts that suit your warped argument. The deep hatred you have for cong is baseless..
@WrongFact,
please go ahead and write up that 1000 page document.. I’m very interested to learn more about the greatness of the congress party
@CONgress spokesperson AKA WrongFacts…
How many times do you repeat that Abu Salem was brought to India courtesy congress, muslims got punished in Mumbai bomb blasts and Coimbatore blasts….Dont you understand that these are legal proceedings and have occurred on their own??? I mean, you can think… right???
Going by the same logic of yours, can you explain why Quattrochi was let off by the same CONgress government????
Man, you are like Jayanti Natarjan… no wonder I call you CONgie spokesperson!!!!
Regarding the Kandahar incident, I have repeated again and again, that it was the political parties, news media of the day which forced the hands of the government. What you wanted to do??? Hold on to the terrorists and allow 100s of people to die?? In your wildest imagination (you seem to be having a lot of this!!!) can you think that the government would have been spared????
Let me tell you this. It is not only me, Crores of Indians believe that Afzal Guru is not being the punishment ONLY because he is a muslim. You may deny it till you turn blue, but this is the truth. I mean, can you even think of granting clemency to a guy who bloody attacked on our parliament???
And that bloke Geelani, do you know something?? SC made observations that he is being let off on TECHNICAL grounds. Not because he is innocent. So that is double whammy for you… Read man, read the documents before you comment something.
Did Indira and Rajeev die in a war?? But bloody braveness you are talking about?? When they were killed, poor souls werent even aware that they are going to be killed!!!! Typical Jayanti style to give a halo around the party leaders.
Indira Gandhi was taking a walk in her Garden, not in some war zone. She got killed by her body guard. Again not by some enemy soldier weilding a gun in the hand. If you play with fire, this is what happens.
Do you know the history of Punjab terrorism?? Bhindranwale was given prominence by this lady to stop the growing influence of Akalis. Typical divide and rule. Then Bhindranwale outgrew his mistress and became a demon in his own right. And in this process, are you even aware how many innocent lives were lost in Punjab???? Both hindus and sikhs???
Rajeev, was again campaigning for an election when he was bombed off. And that happened in Tamil Nadu, not in some foreign war zone. What crap you are talking about bravery???
You talk about IITs and IIMs and other progress. They were the growing period in the history of our country. They had to happen. If congress wants to take credit for that, so be it. But learn to be accountable too….
You said Advaith is wrong and quoted three countries where Indians became the head of state. Can you tell me which are these countries??? To my knoweldge Fiji is one. Mauritius might be another. Which are the other????
And Advaith had said that something like this can happen only in a third world country. When did Fiji and Mauritius become first world?? I mean, come on.. Fiji and Mauritius are smaller than some of our states….
And you take pride in this fact???? God bless you….
Chintaka
1. America is not a small third world country. It will soon have a black migrant and that too with Muslim leanings as President. Does Xenophobia actually have a place is the age of globalisation?
2. You missed the point about Indira and Rajeev Gandhi dying for a cause.
They knew that they would be vulnerable to attacks when they took bold decisions to curb terrorism. They knew that anybody could blow them off any day, because of their tough stance on terrorism. Which is why they used to have Z security .
On the other hand, BJP escorts terrorists! You should learn to say no to terrorists. You gotta talk tough. you gotta say NO DEAL with terrorists!
Soon after this guy was released in Kandahar, the terrorist attack on parliament happened. Can you read inbetween the lines and discover for yourself who was responsible for the attack on our temple?
See, what happens when you treat the terrorists with kid gloves.! our parliament is attacked..But see what happened when Indira Gandhi took a tough stance……punjab extremism came to a standstill! can you deny these facts?
3. Legal proceedings of abu salem occured on their own?!?!?!? yea, it is a self automated button right? Like a plane on auto-pilot?
you are the one who told that Madam Sonia Gandhi could easily bring pressure on the President to hang Afzal Guru! If she can wield so much influence on the president, can’t she get some low down officials to stop the extradition of Abu Salem …so that she could please muslims and win votes?
But she did not. Because she is not into vote bank politics.
Could she not have supported Abdul Kalam for a second term and win the votes of muslims?
But she did not. Congress vehemently opposed kalams candidature for a second term
Could the congress not have stopped the nuclear deal with America because it antagonizes sections of Indian Muslims? Because muslims are against whatever america stands for?
But she did not. She put national interest before Muslims interest.
Why would the congress face the wrath of majority of muslims in Kashmir by granting 100 acres of land to Amarnath Shrine?
Thats because Congress is not into Vote bank politics
@Wrong Fact
Please do not confuse yourself between ethnic indians becoming prime ministers to this case. A political position (formal or informal) or power coming out of an alliance (I call as marriage) is something not good.
America is too mature a democracy to talk about. India has a long way to go to mature as a democracy of American standards. Either way if acontest witnessed recently in America had been set up, Hillary Clinton (or the like) would have won hands down. This is what we call mature democracy. The whole world is applauding Obama.
And another thing to remind. In all the countries where Indians lead the Government, they never made a back door entry or enjoyed defacto power (i.e., Power without responsibility).
Let us compare on equal terms.
Truth if seen upside down will not become a lie.
America is too mature a democracy to talk about. India has a long way to go to mature as a democracy of American standards. Either way if acontest witnessed recently in America had been set up IN INDIA, Hillary Clinton (or the like) would have won hands down. This is what we call mature democracy. The whole world is applauding Obama.
(A SMALL CORRECTION)
I couldnt agree more with the statement that America is a mature democracy! If electoral politics are a sign of the health of Democracy then a country that elects a Bush for two terms and tacitly supports Gingrichian and Rovian principles like swift boating, A Congress that supports invasion plans withour a decent debate, an Executive that defies the expectations of the nation- maturity indeed.
Frankly other than the Founding Farthers who were democracy literate in a feudal/ patriarchal manner America has yet to show any mature public discourse at all.
BTW it is the rest of the world which applauds Obama unreservedly. The Democrats didnt vote for him overwhelmingly and the results of November is still open and McCain still nurses hope in his breast.
Advaith
While you seem to agree with the broad picture and are completely ok with immigrants holding positions of power, now you are seeking to make the distinction more fine.
Now the fine distinction you seem to make is that power coming out of marriage is not good?
Yea right. Please tell that to the BJP which made Maneka Gandhi a cabinet minister. She became a minister, purely on the power of her marriage to a Gandhi.
While you may jump on me saying Maneka is Indian and Sonia was not and Indian before her marriage, here goes:
Please do not obfuscate the point. The heads of state of all these three countries (Fiji, Maldives and to some extent Malaysia and South Africa which have Indian immigrants in cabinet rank) have been living in that country for centuries. They are as much ‘outsiders’ as Sonia Gandhi is. The only difference, they grew up in foreign countries because their parents immigrated. With Sonia Gandhi, her husband belonged to the country she finally chose to be hers. So what? Both are perfectly constitutionally valid.
Look at Obama, how could a foreigner, an immigrant, a black, a Muslim have a chance to head a predominantly white, christian America?
If American elects Obama, they are mature and if Indians elect Sonia Gandhi, they are immature? I am rolling on the floor, laughing.
You say America is a mature democracy? Tsk tsk In what way? Do you know that India is the only country which is light years ahead of other countries in the process in which it elects its leaders? we have electronic voting machines , while a ‘mature’ america still uses the primitive method of papers! some maturity.
Be proud of our country’s democratic process instead of praising america for their primitive election processes.
Indians are welcomed with open arms in western countries and given opportunities to grow. Bobby Jindal, Lakshmi Mittal, Indira Nooyi and the likes are given a free hand to run their own show. They have grown to unbelievable heights of success and power in the country they have immigrated to. There is little evidence of Xenophobia with regard to these three people.
While the foreign origins of Obama, Jindal, Lakshmi Mittal is not much of an issue Sonia Gandhi is constantly criticized for her origins.
In India, why does a daughter change her second name to her husband’s family name? Simply because she has become a part of the husband’s family.
You think Sonia Gandhi enjoys power without responsibility? You are actually saying that a democratically elected leader, chosen by the people has made a back door entry? No way, she has lead from the front, made 100s of election speeches in front of the people and has grandly entered the parliament in full public view, with the people’s consent. And you call that back door?
Let me tell you , what is a backdoor entry. The undemocratic interference of Sangh Parivar in all the BJP govts in the state of the centre. Sangh Parivar is not ELECTED by the people while Sonia Gandhi is ELECTED by the people
Go figure, which is back and which is front door.
@Gaby,
you saying McCain needs a bro (or a manzzier) ? ;)
@WrongFact,
Whats next? calling parthanium plant as congress gida to be made a capital offence?
Karihaida
Duh…are we on the same planet? What are you talking about? whats the connection?
Obama is not a migrant. His father is a migrant to the US.
Fiji Island used to be headed by an Indian origin person before the coup few years ago. Many Indians lost power during coup d’etat and never been able to come back.
Mauritus is headed by Indian origin PM. The flight of Indians in Malayasia is pathetic, there are given second grade treatment in many aspects. Once in a while if you see an Indian descent in the cabinet rank, that does not idicate that they have any equal status in the society.
Maldives has indian origin person?? I used to think that they are separate entity as a nation/people.
Untill very recently person of Indian origin used to head Pakistan. :)
“ketta sangathigalu” eneeno baritharalla. sangathigalu thiliyadiddaru.
@CONgress spokesperson AKA Wrong Facts…..
1. Does it enter your brain that Punjab problem was something which got created thanks to the original Mrs. G???? I mean, this is a well known fact. Assuming that you missed the point, I have repeated it so many times here. And yet you blabber about she laying down the life etc and etc. Wake up dude. Smell the coffee. She fell victim to the demon she created. Nothing more, nothing less. Had she not propped up Bhindranwale, there would have been no terrorism there. Do you get this point????
2. Rajeev Gandhi interfered into some unknown territory. He had no business to do so. Was this terrorism in India? Was it affecting Indian citizen?? He wanted to project himself as a world leader, messed up big time. You see, this messing up runs in the family. Nehru messed up kashmir, his daughter messed up Punjab and grand son… too many things to mention here!!! And now you are licking the feet of one more generation so that they can find something new to mess up!!!
3. Dude, you seem to be having a really messed up mind. Why did you have to bring Maneka into this???? her public stance on environment and animal welfare is known to all (BTW, i dont support her cause to stray dogs, that is another issue for another day). but she was born in this country, brought up in this country and owed allegiance to this country. Unlike your current Devi who was born in Italy, brought up in Italy, got married to an Indian while she was in another foreign country, refused to become an Indian till her husband became the PM of this country (that is about 15 -18 years post marriage) and who still owes allegiance to her catholic state!!!!
You still need more????
4. Do you know Peru??? that is a country in South America. Do you know about the Japanese guy who became the head of that country?? Do you know after doing all wrong things, he ran away to his home land, Japan?? And do you know that Japan refused his extradition demand??
Now you know what calamity will occur if you elect a person who is not a countryman/woman by birth????
5. Dude, answer me one point….do you compare the other 15 who are on the death row with this bloke Afzal Guru and say that they are as bad as him???? You always escape answering this question. Do you know this is the trade mark of Jayanti Natarajans and Manish Tiwaris of this world??? When an uncomfortable question is asked, they always answer something else without coming to the point. Same as you are doing. You talk abu salem, punjab and now you are bringin the rest of the world into the discussion.
Simple and straight. Is Afzal Guru on par with a rapist, a murderer? Think before you shoot…..
Lakshmi Mittal stills holds an Indian passport. He has told openly that he still an Indian citizen
Sonia Gandhi took Indian citizenship just before Rajiv Gandhi became PM.
Her children still travel abroad on Italian passports.
A wonderful article on the Master of Wrong Facts!!!!
@Wrong Facts, these are the kind of people you support!!!!
Republic of the dynasty (Smt Sandhya Jain – Pioneer)
Is it time for regime change in India, for Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to walk into the sunset? Uncle Sam, ever anxious to rearrange the world with friendly dictators and pliable democrats, seems to have woken up to the grand potential of Mr Rahul Gandhi, whose scintillating 30-month-old stint as Amethi MP has set the Potomac on fire.
In the best traditions of American journalism, a leading newsweekly has run an effervescent cover story on the Indian “crown prince” (their phrase, not mine). This certainly suggests Congress ‘queen’ Sonia Gandhi is planning a major political manoeuvre. It is hardly coincidental that the party suddenly withdrew support to the Mulayam Singh Yadav regime in Uttar Pradesh, setting the ball rolling for the Assembly election, which is bound to impact the Centre.
Sadly for the friendly Americans, the eulogistic write-up which exhorts Indians to look up to Mr Rahul Gandhi on account of his lineage rather than his ability to lead, has upset the family retainers. Much like the since-denied Tehelka interview of September 24, 2005, the Newsweek story has been deemed embarrassing to the family and party because it refers to Mr Gandhi’s qualifications with unflattering matter-of-factness. It speaks volumes for the clout enjoyed by the Gandhi-Maino clan in Washington DC that Newsweek could be made to eat crow.
In a prompt and unprecedented retraction, Newsweek apologised for “several inaccuracies” in the story, mainly the claim that Mr Rahul Gandhi failed to earn a degree and did not stick to his job with the Monitor Group for long. The magazine now asserts that Mr Gandhi has an MPhil degree in Development Economics and had worked with the Monitor Group for three years. Crawling when asked to bend, the magazine said it erred in stating that after a year of college in Delhi, Mr Gandhi took economic courses at Cambridge and Harvard, but failed to earn a degree. It said his father, former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi, was assassinated while he was at Harvard in 1991, and that “serious, immediate and life-threatening security concerns” compelled him to transfer to Rollins College, Florida, from where he graduated in 1994. He went on to receive an MPhil from Trinity College, Cambridge University, after which he joined the Monitor Group, a leading, global-strategy consulting group in London.
Congress spokesman Abhishek Singhvi feels “deeply satisfied” with the apology, though personally I feel it raises more issues than it answers about the so-called “crown prince”, because America’s hugely irreverent media does not normally defer so abjectly to even the tallest giants of the First World. Obviously, larger forces are at work to build a mythology around India’s most unremarkable political phenomenon.
It is, therefore, necessary to look closely at the leader Uncle Sam has so lovingly anointed for us lesser mortals. The irrepressible Mr Subramanian Swamy, who not long ago forced Ms Sonia Gandhi to admit that she had not been to Cambridge University but only to Cambridge town, scoffs the belated claim that Mr Rahul Gandhi dropped out of Harvard undergraduate studies due to “security reasons” after Rajiv Gandhi’s assassination. Mr Swamy says that hitherto Mr Gandhi had inspired the Indian media to write that he had a Harvard undergraduate degree. It now transpires that he “graduated” from “some Rock and Rollins College” in Florida. Mr Swamy adds, with some justice, that the Harvard campus is one of the most protected in America, and as a recipient of Z-security cover for figuring on the LTTE hit-list, he faces no difficulty visiting Harvard every summer.
It is pertinent that regardless of from where Mr Gandhi graduated, there is even today no evidence that he undertook post-graduate studies anywhere. As such, his MPhil degree requires credible explanation. Mr Swamy has demanded that Mr Gandhi make public the department from which he secured this degree and disclose the thesis he wrote to qualify for it. The demand is not unreasonable because in the affidavit submitted to the Election Commission, it appears that he did not mention graduation from Rollins College, Florida, but only gave his educational qualifications as High School and then MPhil. Some Indians have now written to the President of Rollins College to clarify matters, as the Alumni Records and also Alumni & Friends list of 1994 fail to mention Mr Gandhi, and some persons in the 1994 alumni list could not recall such a prominent personality graduating from there.
It is equally curious that the Monitor Group, where Rahul Gandhi supposedly worked in London, has clamped up about his three-year stint there. It is also not known how the “serious, immediate and life-threatening security concerns” lessened in London. All this suggests careful White Western management of Mr Rahul Gandhi’s academic and professional qualifications and public projection of the same, which does not augur well for Indian democracy. This may, therefore, be an appropriate occasion for former Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee to clarify reports about the mysterious detention of Mr Gandhi at an American airport during his premiership, and his role in having him released.
Further, given the concerns of many Indians about his mother’s nationality and religious affiliations (which caused her to associate with discredited Western evangelists like Ron Watts), it would be in the fitness of things for Mr Rahul Gandhi to clarify if he possesses an Italian passport (and nationality) besides his Indian ones, and what faith he practices. I specifically wish to know whether or not he is a Hindu like the late Indira Gandhi, the grandmother in whose house he was born and raised.
Finally, there is a need to explain the spectacular performance of the little known Backops Engineering, which is constructing the International Airport Terminal Building at Mumbai, container freight station for Maersk Sealand, Training Centres for RBI, headquarters of Wochhardt Ltd and Wockhardt Hospital in Mumbai, IPCL township at Nagothane, meditation hall at Osho Commune of Pune, among others (Deccan Herald, May 29, 2004). Though based on Arthur Bunder Road opposite Taj Mahal Hotel in south Mumbai, hardly anyone in the construction industry had ever heard of this company, which managed to grab such prestigious projects without creating an overt ripple in the market. Eighty-three per cent of the firm’s shares are owned by Mr Rahul Gandhi, according to his election affidavit; the turnover and profits should be impressive.
5
sukhdev
May 06, 2008
8:21 am
@Wrong fact
I said something important “Truth if tilted upside down will not become a lie” May be you think “lie if tilted upside down will become truth”. Sorry for that.
Why did Sonia became an Indian citizen 20years after her marriage to an Indian? Because the wife of to be Prime Minister cannot be a forieghner. Right!!!
The politics of Mrs. Gandhi undoubtedly ushered terrorism in India? You may ask How could she know what a Bindranwale of the future could be? She could have simply desisted from taking politics to the next lower level. This is not too much for this country to expect from the daughter of Jawaharlal Nehru. Right!!!
When did the fiscal indiscipline by the Centre started in India? After Nehru. That is Mrs. Gandhi laid the foundation for this.
I am quoting the following para from the data on http://www.indianinflation-uncontrollable.com. I suggest you all visit the website.
QUOTE
Between 47- 48 to 60-61, currency did not even double. But with passage of time it has been multiplying rapidly. Between 1947-48 to 2008, it has multiplied 463 times. Explosive expansion from mere Rs.12,382 crores to Rs. 6,04,185 crores took place after 79-80.
Between 1974 to 2008 the currency circulation has increased by 87 times and the price level by 16 times. During the period from 1961 to 2008 the currency has increased by 280 times. After IG came to power the currency has increased by over 200 times. In the last 42 years Janata Dal/ Janata Party was in power for about 4 years or so, BJP for 5 years.
Look at the wide gap in the number of times M3 increased between these countries and India. Obviously India does not exercise any restraint in respect of such a vital matter affecting the welfare of the common man.
Whereas india’s GDP had gone up by just 16 times after Independence.
A good economy will keep the currency supply in more or less the same proporrtion as the GDP growth.
Most of the developed countries have followed this fiscal discipline.
UNQUOTE
Now tell me who is responsible for this? Someone who ruled the country for 33 years and called themselves a stable, nationalist, secular etc. etc OR others who were in power in shades for 9 years.
Again, let me clarify, I said America is a mature democracy in that, people choose Obama over Hilary Clinton. In India it would have been the other way round for obvious reasons. I am unhappy, India with all her strength is not able to show it. Because of the lust for power they tied up with the communists. hey do not want to see the country progress. They want to keep their sworn enemies out of power. What kind of politics is this.
Let us not close our eyes and dream. Let us act. To learn from others is not that bad maan. Knowledge is not bad too. To know and not to use the knowledge is bad. To justify is even bad. When will we learn to admit the facts, truth etc. like Mrs.Hilary Clinton did? We have a lot to learn from her.
To have strength and live like a coward is a crime. That does not mean one should use it everywhere. One could atleast show it.
Whoa Brother Advaith whoa. Obama would have won if the elctions were in Europe. Good ol’ America hasnt yet voted and we will know who would be the next Prez of USA only in November. Also Obama didnt have an easy time in the Dem Primaries. His popular vote of 13,460,645 is marginally better than Clinton’s 13,403,104 ( including Michigan, Florida and the caucauses). I am rooting for Obama all the way but is America?
Democracy cant be mature. It can at best be a agreeable disagreement or at worst a rowdy gathering- somewhat like the Dr Reddy and Chintak commentary story here at Churumuri. It cant be dignified or mature- perhaps a benevolent dictatorship can be not certainly a democracy and it is true for The US, Western Europe or for India.
BTW what are these admissions of truth by Mrs Clinton- I sure havent heard anything sounding like veracity from that lady!!!!!
@gaby
>Democracy cant be mature. It can at best be a agreeable disagreement or at worst a rowdy gathering- somewhat like the Dr Reddy and Chintak commentary story here at Churumuri.<
Please specify what comments of mine give you the feelings of rowdyism.
You want to claim your comments are mature and dignified with all that arrogant and castist postings that you have been posting here at Churumuri. !!
Most of your comments are higly sickening. You are speaking AT people, not with them.
Advaith
I think you are making good points except for one.
How can you say America as a matured democracy and its functional??
SpinDoctor Chintaka
1. If you think you can make a point by screaming hysterically in every mail, I am sorry to disappoint you, your rantings will not change the truth.
People like you are insulting democracy and the Indian people who have accepted Sonia Gandhi and elected her time and again with massive margins. The door to your mind is so steadfastly closed, that you just don’t seem to understand that she is DEMOCRATICALLY elected, while RSS and the likes DO NOT HAVE THE CONSENT OF THE PEOPLE.
And how far will you take this outsider insider debate? Then why should and ‘outsider’ Lakshmi Mittal be allowed to grow in London? Why should an ‘outsider’ Bobby Jindal be allowed to become the governor of a state in USA? Why should an outsider ‘Obama’ be allowed to contest for presidential elections? You never seem to have a convincing reply to these questions. You sidestep it each time I bring it up.
2. According to you, Indira Gandhi was responsible for Punjab terrorism? I don’t buy even one milligram of your thesis at all. She NEVER told Bhindranwale to go kill innocent people for the sake of Khalistan. In fact, your BJP’s ally, Shiv Sena has told in full public view that Hindus should form terrorist squads!!!!!!!!!! And BJP continues to indulgently smile at this remark! The pot continues to call the kettle black! If you are hyperventilating and refuse to see 2+2 =4, I cannot help it.
The truth is SHE ELIMINATED the monster of terrorism in Punjab. She was brave enough to take on bullets. When a neighbouring country (Sri Lanka) asks for help, what is wrong in helping a neighbour to battle terrorism? You forget that we are living in an era of globalisation, and not isolation. No country can be isolated or insulated from what’s happening around the world. We need to help each other out in trade, in technology, in products, in services, in human resources and in military too. Once in a while it’s nice to do Chintan, Mr. Chintaka.
3. I bought Maneka into this because of your abhorrance to dynastic politics. Didn’t BJP have a single ORIGINAL member from its party to give the environment ministry? Why did they have to take a Congress reject? And that too a Gandhi ? Truth is BJP needs the Gandhi family as much as Congress needs it. Reports say Varun Gandhi will be given a BJP ticket from Philbit, this time around. Why? Purely because, he is a Gandhi.!!!!!!!!!
Got it? If I were you, i would have nastily said, ” Does this ever get into your ThickSkull.”?
Sonia might have taken 20 years to get citizenship. So what? The law, the constitution and the people of India have accepted it. Why keep flogging a dead horse, when everything is settled? Peru? What Peru stuff you are talking about? I don’t know about it. Even if I grant you that, does that mean all leaders are alike? One swallow does not make a summer.
4. Perhaps you are not reading my replies properly. I am not being evasive or avoiding answering uncomfortable questions. I already have told you that the CONSTITUTION does not differentiate between DIFFERENT DEATH sentences. A death sentence is a death sentence, whatever the nature of the offense. And therefore you just cannot jump the queue and hang a man in 16th position, overlooking the first 15. That would be unconstitutional. You seem to show a marked preference for undemocratic and unconstitutional means always.
5. Why does your party support Naveen Patnaik who parachuted from the top to become the Chief Minister of Orissa? Mr. Naveen Patnaik did not even know the Oriya language, he was nowhere in the party structure, his contribution to his party and the people of Orissa was zilch, yet he was made CM, at the cost of other leaders who came up the hard way through the grassroots.
Why? Why? Why? Purely, because he was Biju Patnaik’s son. Why does your party gleefully support such dynasty politics and not Congress’s dynasty politics?
Enjoy your weekend.
@Chintaka navare
Both Rahulappa and Priyankamma entered colleges from the backdoors.
Rahulappa was given admission at St. Stephens on the basis of some sports quota (archery??!!). He did not even had 50 percent. Priyamma was given admission to Lady Sriram College on some other quota. Both terribly failed to complete their undrgraduate courses. So they are not alumini of above said colleges too.
he went to Harvard? did he? That was the rumours spread by nehru-gandhi bhaktas. Of course nobody will ever find the names of some members of Gandhi family, including videshi bahu in alumini registers of Cambridge, Harvard and Rollins.
Advaith,
When truth glares at you back, you chose to close your eyes. Truth does not vanish, if you close your eyes.
1. Do you know the current president George Bush is the son of another former president George Bush? Is this not dynastic politics? What do you mean Indians would have chosen Hilary? Your argument goes for a toss, high up in the air because:
a) Americans too have chosen George bush, son of George Bush as president. Which means they too support dynasty politics like we Indians do. Where’s the damn difference?
b) Americans too have chosen an ‘outsider’ to head the democratic party. Indians too have chosen an ‘outsider’ like Sonia Gandhi. What’s the damn difference?
2. Indira Gandhi NEVER EVER asked Bhindranwale to go and blow the heads of innocent people. You are colouring the white truth with your hideous, garish colours of falsehood. You are imputing motives, while there is none. You are seeing ghosts, while there is none.
You are as usual WRONG on FACTS. What is the REAL FACT? Here it is: BJP’s best-friend called Shiv Sena has asked Hindus to form terrorist squads. And BJP does not have the courage to cut off links with Sena. Truth will not disappear if you close your eyes.
3. Regarding fiscal discipline for the last fifty years, I am not the torchbearer of Congress’s performance in the past 50 years. I keep telling you that Congress has CHANGED in the past 10 years. The present Congress is not the same as the old congress.
Course, everything wasn’t hunky dory during congress rule. But certain MONUMENTAL changes, were brought in, which REVOLUTIONiSED the way Indians are perceived internationally:
Remember, it was the Congress which made us a NUCLEAR POWER.
Remember it was the Congress which opened up our economy.
Remember, it was Congress which gave us green revolution.
Please retain the white colour of truth. Don’t ‘adulterate’ it with cheap colours of blatant lies.
Dr. Sree Reddy..
It’s a cheap lie that Rahul Gandhi travels on Italian passport.
Does Bobby Jindal have an Indian Passport, I wonder. If he has, isn’t it wonderful that America still elects him inspite of him having an indian passport?
Lakshmi Mittal is still an outsider in London. yet they have welcomed him with two wide arms and allowing him to grow.
Before you send me cut paste articles, it would be better if you understand the background a bit.
SpinDoctor Chintaka
Thank you for enligtening me about the Pioneer article.
Pioneer is a mouthpiece of BJP. The party gave a Rajya Sabha backdoor entry to its editor Mr. Chandan Mitra. You cannot really expect Pioneer to write a pro-congress article. It has to write favourable articles to suit its master, the BJP. Else Mr. Chandan Mitra will be out of BJP. Mr. Mitra has to keep his job so he has to write derogatory pieces about Gandhi family. No surprises here.
The author expects us to believe that a reputed publication will actually backtrack on its story due to the clout of the Gandhi Family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will the publication actually deliberately erode its credibility by doing a turnaround on its earlier story? Comical to say the least.
If Sonia Gandhi wields so much clout to influence a foreign publication to backtrack on its story, why doesn’t she hold the same clout to influence Pioneer? Truth is: She cannot and has not influenced the media.
,…………… two wide arms and allowing him to grow.
Now Wrongfact, what do u have against Lakshmi Mittal. He is a businessman. and he has grown his wealth through his business and tactics. Now what do you mean ‘Allowing him to grow. India Govt might have invited him to take up projects in India. doesn’t matter which passport he uses. By the way you have any hint that he belongs to Sangh Pariwar.
Pioneer may be a pro-BJP. They have raised some issues in the article. With your clear un-biased mind why dont you address those issues?
@ Wrong fact
Your writing is epitome of your name.
Why should I go around telling lies? I am noone’s spokesperson :)
The truth is bitter goes the saying. Have you forgotten after Sep 11 2000 terroist attacks in the US, security at the US airports beefed up. With that background when Rahulappa was travelling in the US hewas detained for almost a day. In the US, they found him very ‘suspicious’ for using an Italian passport and which had entry saying country of birth India. He tried to convince the US authorities saying he is son of late Rajiv Gandhi but that did not help him. He was detained for number of hours.
By the way “Pioneer” is a neutral newspaper. It is not a BJP mouthpiece.
Lakshmi Mittal has worked hard and earned himself. Is it a crime?
or He should have followed someone’s footsteps like ‘getting affluent by the way of marriage’ and exploiting the status of a bahu of ‘magnificient’ family?
Soniaamma ‘s influence. Yes, agreed she does not influence. She just SILENCES the media as not to publish anything offending her or her deals.!!
@CONgress Spokesperson AKA WrongFacts…..
It is not me hyperventilating chap… anyway, we will leave it at that.
Coming back to your defences where you have tried in gloriously to defend the undefendables….
1. Getting elected as a MP is one thing. Getting to rule the nation is another. See, you give convoluted logic here.
Lakshmi Mittal is a businessman. He can grow anywhere and everywhere. Does he control the decision making process of a nation??
Research your facts right man… else you will always be WRONGFACT!!!
Bobby Jindal is not an outsider. He was born in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. His parents were immigrants, but Bobby is a US citizen. Plus being in a state which is conservative christian at heart, he too converted to christianity to make him more acceptable to his voters.
Now you know why the US voters had no problem in accepting Bobby as their own????
Again Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. The last I checked, Hawaii was still a part of America. Do you have any knowledge of some foreing power usurping this state??? If so, he is a foreigner. If not he is as much an American as Rahul Gandhi is an Indian.
Regarding getting elected and therefore getting acceptance of people, WrongFact, even Subba from Nepal got elected. Does it mean that he can be given the prime minister’s post?? Duh man.. you are…
2. You know, Commies/Congies/Islamists have one nasty habit. The moment something is written against them, they start throwing mud at the source from where the article came. So if an honest researcher publishes something about the Indian History which shows the true place of muslims, he is rightist. If something is written in newspaper, it is because they are BJP mouth piece… how convenient???
Let us for a moment think that Pioneer published utter nonsense. If it was utter nonsense, I wonder why the congress party didnt file a libel suit against the paper to clear the name of its esteemed leader????
Fact is, Pioneer was right. Google it and you will get a lot more info on this. (I am sure, you will come back and say that ALL of them are BJP sympathisers!!!)
3. Congies and commies have one more trait in common. They write history to suit their requirement!!! Same as you are doing.
What a dumb statement??
“She NEVER told Bhindranwale to go kill innocent people for the sake of Khalistan”. Man, are you for real?? From when did terrorsts started getting tutored on these things????Do you think terrorists need to be told all these things????? Come on, little more intelligence from your end.
Cut a diamond with a diamond. Heard of this?? when islamo terrorists are wreaking havoc in this country and the government sits quiet, what do you expect the people to do?? Hunt a terorist with another terrorist man!!!!
4. Classis case of Manu Singhvi speak. When you know you are down and out, take cover of law taking its own course, constitutional validity blah blah blah.
Look, attack on parliament was an attack on the nation. Its people. Parliament symbolises the democracy. What constitutional propriety you are talking of, when they have attacke the very institution which created our constitution.
That is the reason I said sometime back that the government should not only do, it should also appear to be doing the right things at the right time.
Hanging Afzal Guru out of turn will not create any constituional crisis. He is not saint. He is no saadhu. I hope (eternal optimist that I am, i keep hoping) that you see the reason here.
5. True Naveen Patnaik was given the opportunity because he is Biju Patnaik’s son. Wrong. You also know it is wrong. Then why are you defending the Congie dynasty???
6. Sonia was not born in this country. So she is an outsider. Obama was born in US, so he is a natural US citizen. Get the difference???
7. Bush, before he got elected, won the Republican primaries… plus he had a long political life before that as governor of texas, senator etc. Not like Sonia Amma whose only QUALIFICATION was being Rajeev’s widow!!!!
@Wrong Fact
Please get your facts right. Lot of confusion, contradictions in your statements.
@ Wrong fact
I knew you will tilt the Bhindranwale issue. You see I have even warned of this in my very next sentence.
You conveniently overlook the underlying points in the issue and tend to respond to just one comment in the entire para. If you cannot respond you tend to be slippery. You dont want to answer on Fiscal discipline, nor do you want to answer on who is accountable for the inflation today. If you dont get to the roots of the problem, you may never find the right solution, my dear friend. Brushing away facts can give temporary relief. In the long run one will repent if they find that it has reached cancerous proportions. Do you think, Manmohan Singh/ PC dont understand the basics that we do. They just want everyone to believe that everything is honky dory. This is not correct.
You dont want to answer why cant Congress take the responsibility for the present state. Ofcourse they ruled the country for 33 years, post Nehru and they shoudl take responsibility. You want to talk your own Wrong facts and do not want genuine published facts. Similarly, you have missed giving a direct /convincing reply to all my points.
If basic ethics are not right, one cannot trust the perrson (Of course now I dont mean you but the images in your belief).
Congress had a great legacy to be the torch bearer to this nation. But after Nehru everyone used the Congress as a platform to grow and make money. This is the hard part to digest and this is the reason Gandhiji wanted the INC to be dissolved after the independence.
Even today, the selfish motive is to re-establish the dynasty in Indian Politics. Come on let us admit facts which are too obvious.
We have several leaders clinging to the party including the Dynasty to derive the benefits out of it. Manmohan Singh and a few more of the like have got into this and are finding it difficult to come out.
In Kannada we have a proverb,
“Mane munde Aane sattu biddiruvaga, bereavara mane munde ili sattu biddiruvudannu healthare”
It is not that I am supporting any other party.
Let the Congress correct its basic values. They can then talk about others. Congress has a great history. It should have lived up to it. Again do not blame the rest of the political environment for Congress to stoop to low levels. Congress had and even now have the ability to define the ethics in politics.
Ths party has to show that it can stand for values, it can stand on its own, it can stand for ethics etc. If at all that happens, I am sure every other party will take a cue out of that.
You just want the discussion to keep on going like a chewing gum. No use.
@Dr Reddy,
When I say mature democracy, I dont take into consideration a George Bush (Sr) or a George Bush (Jr.) or a Kennedy is elected. During the 60’s Kennedy was an idol in India I remember.
It is the people who elect that matters. It is not the technology as Wrong fact said. For our population and our kind of electoral malpractices and the conditions under which elections are held, surely we would need the help of technology. Some other country may not need.
The people who elect know what issues they are voting for. They generally end up getting what they want. It could be anything. It may or may not interest you and me or a third country.
I believe we all undestand the concept of maturity as one ages. Now this maturity in individuals are dependent on several factors. It could be upbringing, their life style, the hardships in life, experiences etc. Therefore you see some people show high maturity levels at young age and vice-versa.
Now this is also true for a country. I could say, in India, we had a good chance to reach that level too soon. but somewhere in the middle (post independence) we lost all the experience and the hardships of our freedom fighters. Dont ask me why? It will open up another debate.
Though we can boast of not just one leader but many who made the entire world look at us with respect, probably, they did not prepare many leaders of their own calibre.
Now this is what I mean maturity of a democracy. Do not forget, one cannot mature (fully) if one is tied up under several controls. Maturity comes only when one is free to act and speak. The speed with which it comes is dependent on how liberal the society is yet how traditional, value based they are. I dont mean to say that all everything is all fine in America. But is it not still better.
We will all come to see their maturity when all the oil is dried up in the Middle East and they open up their wells in Alaska. Of course every nation want to go one up. Dont we want to? It is the experience which make the nation think long term and not go gaga for short term benefits.
It is this area of macro level long term planning that we have failed. We cant even see short term implications to the extent of even an year well ahead. If Sonia could have seen it she would have taken a decison on the nuclear deal 3-6 months back and not allowed inflation to decide important policy matters as of now. She would have been happy to allow the Govt to fall six months back.
She had a better chance of winning the election. How can these people who cannot decide their own future in the short term safe guard the country’s interests in the long term??
Sorry for being too caustic. But there must be a way out. But this way cannot be definetely be shown by the half filled stomachs.
Advaith your Sophistry nakes no sense to me but please twitter on since it’s amusing. You havent told me the blinding confessions made by Mrs Clinton!!
Dr Reddy, when I said rowdy I meant the raucous, bousterous, noisy and disorderly meanings but I am sorry if I misunderestimated ( As that mature person of American Politics said :)) the influence of Telugu Cinema on our vocabulary. I also meant the ‘ rowdy’ discourse of Wrongfact, Adhvaith, DBs, TSs, Me etc and not just you and Chintak. You call my comments offensive- that is what Democracy is- the right to be offensive and call things offensive, to speak to people as well as be spoken at- a participative process even if its disgusting. Not Dignified at all, not mature and certainly not stagnant. It cam encompass diffrent types of clowns from Karts to Modis to the Race Course Road donkeys.
My dear man I would never do myself the disfavor of considering my comments as dignified. I am proud to be part of a ‘ rowdy’ group of comment makers.
Dr Reddy just curious to know which of my remarks you find casteist?
Gaby,
TRUTH IS BITTER!
There is no Logic to TRUTH
Dr Reddy is the one & only TRUTH
and therefore I dub thee casteist. period!
@Wrong fact
Decisively all your points are going Tss…………..
One can see this in your replies which are clearly evading the main issues.
For now it is not just the dream team (without a dream!!!!! alas) that has been exposed, but the entire politics of the congress going back atleast 45 years if not beyond that. Till Nehru was alive, there was some amount of accountability and ethics alive. These clearly started to fade away after that. may be we have some plusses here and there. But those have not happened as frequently as it was required to happen. I found the following quote on the Cong Party website.
“The Congress is unique. Our uniqueness arises from several basic features of the Congress’s history, its character, its ideology and the legacy of its leadership. I am convinced that the time is ripe for a massive renaissance of our political culture so that we build that society which combines compassion with competence, equity with excellence.”
Smt. Sonia Gandhi
Truely when one read this dont you feel that if the congress is right in its basic guiding principles, it has a moral right to advice others. I am saying so for Congress and not others because we have a father like organisation (?) standing here with basically virtues as good as or worse than the others organisations. It is easy to wriggle out muttering that the Congress of today has changed. If it has changed then let it disassociate from the preindependence INC. This party has exploited the poor and the ill fed people of this country again and again under false and non existent pretexts.
I suggest if you could send a copy of this blog to the Cong High command.
Unfortunatly this thread is going off track.BJP supporters here,i did not see a single justified argument here apart from self owen theories.Some of them have even started arguing on credibility of facts which is even more worse.
wrong facts- You need to agree on fact that congress does musslim appeasing.Whats wrong in it? After all muslims are citizens of this country.There is no shame in it.Why can’t you agree to something which is very obvious.
Every one does appeasment of one or another cast/religion.BJP is currently doing lingayat appeasment.Congress does Muslim/Dalit/OBC appeasment and JDS Gowdas and nayaks appeasment.
And to everyone, neither is congress dead nor is going to be a majority winner in next LS elections.
Neither is BJP going to win.
Every one needs alliance.It could be a surprise third front also.So lets stop this guessing game as for now and wait until elections are announced.
Sumkirla
I shall definitely agree that Congress has indulged in minority appeasment in the past. I never run away from stark naked truths.
But so has the BJP (Jinnah remarks, election of Abdul Kalam, BSY’s grant of Rs. 100 crore to minority fund, admitting Congress rejects like Najma Heptullah into BJP, sending muslim voters to Ajmer free of cost, making Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi the spokesperson, etc. etc.).
Minority appeasement shouldn’t be a tag attached to Congress only. BJP too does it with consummate ease. But the myth that only cong is into minority appeasement remains!!!!!!!!!!! strange.
Advaith
I don’t run away from facts. I already told you that i AM NOT THE torchbearer of Congress 50 years of past. I also admitted that there were several flaws including managing of economy….but congress also BROUGHT in monumental changes like nuclear power, green revolution and opening up the economy.
For having screwed up the economy for 40 years, it was the congress which rectified the past, by opening up the economy in 1991. Can you have the humility to accept it?
And please understand I was never a cong supporter of the old. I only REPEAT what i have said earlier: THE CONGRESS OF THE LAST TEN YEARS HAS CHANGED. THE BJP TOO IN THE LAST TEN YEARS HAS CHANGED.
THE NEW CONG LOOKS MORE LIKE THE OLD BJP. WHILE THE NEW BJP LOOKS LIKE THE OLD CONG.
So please don’t give me stale rhetoric of what has the Congress done in the past 60 years time and again.
In the last 10 years, the congress has less dissidence, less criminals, less corruption, less nepotism. while the BJP is exactly the opposite.
Chintaka
1. Glad you agree Naveen Patnaik’s dynastic politics is wrong. So you must not have a problem any longer with Congress’ dynastic politics.
I never said Naveen Patnaik’s elevation is wrong. I was merely pointing out that such kind of dynastic politics is prevalent in all parties, including BJP.
So lets stop cong basing vis a vis dynastic politics once and for all. Because all the parties are in the same boat!
2. Congress is a 150 year old party, spanning four generations. Obviously dynastic rule will prevail. BJP started growing only 20 years back. Whilst the first generation of BJP leaders themselves are still enjoying power, where is the question of handing power to the second generation. Anyway, the process has already started..Reports say that BJP is getting ready to give tickets for the next Lokh Sabha election to at least 10 sons and daughters of its politicians!!!!! In another 15 years time, you can expect a whole gamut of politicians in BJP owing their lineage to dyanstic politics.
Remarkably, NO OTHER PARTY in India has three members from the same family in the cabinet, like Bellary mining family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and the pot never tires of calling the kettle black!!!!!!!!!!
Pramod Mahajan’s son was given an important party post , the moment his father died. tsk tsk…..what was rahul mahajan’s contribution to bjp or maharashtra?
3. Agree Obama was born in USA. But do you know once a girl marries, she becomes a part of the husband’s family? She is no longer an outsider. She becomes an insider. you are insulting 1000s of years of indian culture by refusing to accept the daughter in law as part of the family!
If your neighbour is being attacked by anti social elements, and he screams for help, only a coward will not rush to his help. It requires courage, sensitivity, and conviction to attack the goons!!! Exactly what Rajeev Gandhi did by helping Sri Lanka. ANd instead of praising our ex PMs heroic stance, you are saying he deserves what he gets!!!!!!!! Shame!
4. The international publication RETRACTED its fake stories on Rahul gandhi. That closes the chapter. If Pioneer insists that the story was retracted out of pressure from Gandhi family, its laughable!!!!!!!!!!
Congress can’t even stop Siddaramiah or Narayan Rane or our very own Sommanna from Govindrajnaagar from speaking up against the high command …can she stop some foreign publication? What a joke! This insistence of Pioneer to read motives into something totally straightforward is ridiculous!
Dr. Reddy, Pioneer is neutral? Probably you don’t know that its editor is a Rajya Sabha MP….so now you know where this substandard articles come from. Some obscure newspaper ready by a handful of people becomes the gospel for you guys!
5. I am all for globalisation. Just as Lakshmi Mittal should be allowed to grow anywhere in the world, so should a Bobby Jindal..and so should a Sonia Gandhi….narrow territories SHOULD no longer a criteria in this era of globalisation.
6. Ah now again, you seem to turn a blind eye to facts. You seem to somehow know what the aam janta does not. you seem to insist that Indira Gandhi supported bhindranwale and hence the rather fallacious inference: she supported terrorism!
IN the same way, Can i say, BJP was THE PRIMARY PARTY RESPONSIBLE for the mandalisation of india , for the reservation crisis that plagued the country. BJP made VP singh the prime minister of India and VP singh opened the can of reservation worms…
Hence BJP is the chief party responsible for the RESERVATION problem…
@CONgress Spokesperson AKA Wrongfacts….
In your over enthusiasm to serve your party, you have started typing inconsistent and inane remarks….I dont fault you.. you are defending the undefendables!!!!!!!
1. Naveen Patnaik is not in BJP. He is in BJD. Two different entities. As different as Cong and Left parties are. So an alliance is one thing, following it in your own party is another. In all my postings earlier, I have mentioned the dynastic policies of Congress. You have always mentioned about the parties which are either supporting BJP or getting supported by BJP. Where is dynastic politics in BJP per se??? I hope this gets into your mind…
And BTW, giving tickets to sons and daughters of the politicians is not dynastic politics in the true sense. After all , after getting the tickets they have to win and after winning they should be straightaway promoted to the decision making bodies. That is dynastic politics.
2. Giving a party post to Rahul Mahajan is like offering job to a government employee’s son when he dies in service. You get the point?? But was he made the central committee member where he could exert influence on the decision making process of the party??? The answer is clear.. if you want to see it.
3. Dont ever say that congress is a 150 year old party. That institution died its death possibly when Indira Gandhi split the party. Today what we have is a party which is nourished and nurtured by the Gandhi family, purely for their selfish motives. Even granting you that this is a party with 150 odd years of existence, do you see the sons and daughters of other PMs in active politics???
For instance, Lal Bahadur Shastry. Where are his children today??? So much so that the poor chap PVN was not even allowed to be buried in Delhi!!!! Why??? Delhi is reserved only for the Gandhi family??? Remember, Congress was once a party which had vibrant inner party democracy. Perhaps even the original Gandhi was responsible for the death of democracy within the party when he forced his candidate to get elected to the post of presidnet when Subhash Chandra Bose contested!!!!
Refresh your history man….
4. Coming back to the history again… Feroz Shah was a Gandhy.. not Gandhi. He was a muslim who was shown to be a parsi…. you guess the reason????
And your contention that daughter in law becoming a part of the husband’s family etc.. pray tell me why is Priyanka still officially using the Gandhi surname???? Should it not be Vadhera and Vadhera only???
In normal circumstances when daughters in law accept the family of the husband as their own, in their heart and soul, it is fine. No issues. Does it take 20 odd years for this transformation to occur??? When husband is getting an important position in the household and the pre condition is that the daughter in law must accept the family, then if she accepts it.. man something must be wrong…
Like I said earlier on Bhidranwale and Indira, you can go on & on & on… fact cannot be changed. Same way here too….
5. Our neighbour was not screaming for help Wrong Fact…..The tamil issue was a demon created by the internal dealings of the Lankans. You dont interfere in your neighbour’s issue when the family members are fighting. Right???
For instance, would you accept if Pak sends its troops to Kashmir to fight for the Kashmiris???? They are also screaming for help.
What Rajeev did was foolhardy and he got what he deserved. And look at the events which is unfolding now!!! His widow pardons his killers and sups up with the party which supports the very people Rajeev sent the troops to destroy!!! And this poor chap’s daughter goes to meet his killer and sympathises with her… what wife and what daughter???
6. We have this habit for falling at the feet of Gora Sahebs. Like some people have this affliction of falling at the feet of another Gori, Sonia. Pioneer is wrong. Newsweek is wrong. Accepted. Is Harvard also wrong when it said that Rahul Gandhi did not get a degree from its college????
7. Did you read anywhere in my postings that Indira supported terrorism??? All that I said was she created Bhindranwale and he became a terrorist. And when she shot bhindranwale, she in turn was killed. So it is like creating a demon who will outgrow its creator. Remember the Bhasmasura story????
8. Again and again you are proving your name. BJP supported VP Singh. V P Singh brought reservation. Therefore BJP brought in reservation. What ridiculous thought!!!!
Since Congies took support of Left, can i say Congies are responsible for Nandigram??? I mean when you argue something, understand the issue and argue.. You are the first person I have come across blaming BJP for Mandal Mess!!!! I mean think. Since 1991.. if you happen to be the first person, you are sort of unique… for the warped thinking process!!!!
I had told you that I give credit where it is due…I give credit to you for one thing dude…. you DO have a way thinking the most unreasonable things. And what more, you are not ashamed of putting across such unreasonable thoughts across!!!! Keep up the work.. we do need some entertainment here!!!!!
But then, this is not a good trait…
Hi,
The one who has written this article seems to be working for BJP’s media section.You have made it a point to slam the govt on evrything it does.its dammed if u do it dammed if u dont.In this article u slam the govt for the rate of inflation prevelant these days but u also in another article on the same site propose to wipe out the entire fuel subsidy which will send the prices into a tizzy.When NDA was in power we were paying 40+ for petrol now we r paying 50+ while the cost of crude had gone up by more than 400% since then so by your logic the price would be nearly 170/lt.
If u actually want to be a journalist be a dispassionate one or go join some piece of junk like samana.Maybe theyll give u a plump post there seeing your talent of putting such a spin on the truth.
And lastly one more thing maybe BJP will win this election maybe youll get to get cushy in the corridors to power but take it from me that the mess the world is in will surely burn your party real bad maybe bad enough to take you to the good old and well deserved days of a 2 MP party.
Dear SpinDoctor Chintaka
1. Show me one place where have I told that Naveen Patnaik is a BJP man? The trouble is you have such preconceived notions in your head, that you actually read what your eyes want to read, and not what I have intended you to read.
You seem to be going in a loop. I HAVE NEVER EVER TOLD NAVEEN PATNAIK BELONGS TO BJP. My point was when BJP wholeheartedly supports a person who parachuted from the top, at the cost of others in the party, why doesn’t it wholeheartedly support Rahul Gandhi?
See the difference:
Naveen Patnaik becomes a CM without even becoming an ordinary MLA.
Rahul Gandhi has become an MP for more than five years now, yet he has not even become a cabinet minister!!!!!!!!!!! full marks to Gandhi family for resisting the power to become a minister while BJP and its allies can’t wait to grab the minister’s chair!
Naveen Patnaik is the CM cum ALL POWERFUL man in BJD – for every small decision, ministers are made to run and wait for this all powerful man, purely because he happens to represent a political family.
Your arguments are getting convoluted by the minute. Pramod Mahajan’s son was given a party post is akin to a son getting a govt. job because his father died? why don’t you apply the same rule to Rajeev Gandhi who got the PM post because his mother died? Eh? One rule for BJP and its allies, one rule for Congress?
At least, when Rajeev became PM, he was an MP. Naveen Patnaik wasn’t even an MLA even once, before he became a CM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vasundhara Raje Scindia is the daughter of Vijaya Raje Scindia….if this isn’t dynasty politics, I wonder what is! When caught with your pants down, you try to wriggle out giving absurd logic! Fact is you don’t want to accept the truth.
Dynastic politics is best evident in our Karnataka cabinet..where THREE people from the same family are given tickets! this is the supreme irony…a party which is dead against dynasty is actually the party which encourages family rule to the HILT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. Sonia became the daughter in law of the Gandhi family the day she married her husband. From day one she was known as Sonia Gandhi. And if Priyanka choses to keep Gandhi as her surname, it’s her wish….that does not mean that she doesn’t belong to her husband’s family. having a name alone isn’t the only measure of belonging to a certain family. yes i agree sonia took 20 years…so what? she is still legally, constitutionally and democratically right. You continue to insult a grand tradition of India’s..well, i can’t expect any better from you….repeatedly showing disrespect for traditions, for constitutional norms and for democracy.
3. You are wrong as usual SpinDoc…check out…….Sri Lanka requested India for help…….
4.
You say Indira gandhi created Bhindranwale who created terrorism.
So your inference: Indira Gandhi created terrorism.
Ditto logic my friend
I say BJP made VP singh prime minster,who created the monster of Mandal reservations.
So my inference: BJP created Mandal.
If my logic is massively deranged, so is yours. So stop justifying the unjustifiable and so will I.
Truth is Indira Gandhi did not allow the ugly monster of terrorism to fester for too long. She too valiant steps to snub out the demon. And she paid for it with her life.
You got to be completely BRUTALLY INHUMAN and INSENSITIVE to actually say, ” Indira and her son Rajeev got what they deserved.” you are actually publicly supporting her asassination. What is the difference between you and a terrorist? this is a pretty dangerous mindset…
5. You actually admit that Indira Gandhi did not ask Bhindranwale to go kill innocent people. While on the other hand we all know that Shiv Sena has given an open call for hindu terrorists squad…..and you are silent on this issue.
Here is a leader openly saying Kill…openly giving a call for hindu terrorism..and your anger is strangely directed at a dead lady who, in your own words, admitted that she never asked bhindranwale to kill innocents.
Think chintaka, think…..argue constructively..or i am afraid this debate is going down the drain.
@Dr. Tariq
Surprised to see the twisted tale being told without understanding. Hope you will understand this
1. This started as a comparison between NDA and UPA Govts and later ended up gaining party and individual prominence. It was never started as one.
2. You dont understand the pricing mechanism for Petrol in this country and the world over. That is why you are talking 40Rs. and 170 Rs. Please understand the mechanism and come back.
@ Wrong fact
I hope Chintaka has responsed. Believe me, do not take it with a party flavour. It is just between what is right and what is not right. What is good and what is not good. Let us put forth the arguments sensibly. This is just my advice.
@Wrong fact
One aspect I noticed is using Dr. Kalam’s name for scoring cheap points.
Can you attribute Mother Teresa in this country with any affiliations?
Some leaders like, Dr. Kalam, Dr. Mandela (South Africa), MK Gandhi, Mother Teresa to name a few, are above all affiliations. They belong to the enitre community and not just one.
Please dont use the names for such reasons as used here. If we do not limit ourselves as a nation, we might not see real leaders in future.
Chintaka,
what about Vasundara raje? She was no where.She was just pushed to Rajasthan and that too as chief minister of rajasthanbecause she was a daughter of Queen(her name is some raje,she dies few years back.)Vasunadara was considered a outsider then.Rahul mahajan was also another example.And dont tell me about employee died etc shit.politics is a not a unskilled job to offer such things.It was very clear that BJP influence was in decline,so to avoid that rahul was promoted so that they could gain back some influcen due to his fathers image.
Isn’t that like promoting dynasty rule?
Dynasty politics is every where.Simply pointing your finger at congress does not hold good in argument.
You conviently twist the arguments when something is thrown at you.Giving ticket to a son of politicsian just because of fathers political image is a dynasty politics.You accept it or not,it is what we define as dynasty politics.
@CONgress spokesperson..AKA WrongFacts…
Time and again you are proving your name is right…tch tch tch…
You not only support congies.. but for a rare trait for Indians, you seem to be following Goebbles as well…utter a lie hundred times and it shall become the truth…is what he preached… you are following the same principle!!!!!
1. When V P Singh became the PM, it was not BJP alone which supported him. Please refresh your memory. There were a host of political parties which pledged support to him. In a very rare and uncommon occurence in Indian politics, Left too supported this man. So did regional parties, which later on came to be known as Third Front. I hope your memory goes as far back as this one. So to surmise that BJP’s support of VP Singh = BJP creating reservation monster is the height of foolishness.
2. Do you even know the circumstances under which VP announced his Mandal decision?? This was a decision taken by a man who was an utter failure as a PM, just to counter the growing thread of a Jat leader from Punjab. So where does BJP fit in this whole scheme of things?? They subsequently withdrew the support to this stupid government, didnt they???
3. Any student of contemporary history of Indian politics will clearly know the role played by Indira Gandhi in creating the terrorism in Punjab. You seem to be playing with words to cover the fallacy in your argument. From when did terrorists need direction to do what they do??? Isn’t tacit support sufficient for them to operate??? Do you mean to say Bhindranwale could grow the level he grew without the tacit support he got from the then governments?? What rubbish man????
“The second reason was attempts made by the then Prime Minister of India, Indira Gandhi to use Bhindranwale to undermine the Akali Dal (Eternal Party), a religious party. The strategy backfired because Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale started challenging Indira Gandhi and the Indian government.”
This is an entry in wikipedia on bhindranwale and indira gandhi. you can search this for yourself. Now dont tell me that Wikipedia is also biased!!!!
4. When I said Indira Gandhi did not ask Bhindranwale to kill innocent people, I said it as a matter of accepting your illogical argument. Come on man, dont be so naive to think that PM of a country will go and tell a terrorist to kill people…. you may be stupid, but Indira was not. And these things need not be told to the terrorists. As long as they get political patronage, they do what they know the best. To kill people.
5. When you send out help to your neighbours do it in full measure. While you claim that Sri Lanka screamed for help, what did this joker do?? Send IPKF, kill a few tamils and when the neat in the country grew that he was killing indian tamils, he withdrew the troop. This was his folly. Either destroy the enemy fully or leave him the way he is. In both these cases he is not dangerous. But trouble him in such a way that he is craving for revenge and you are inviting trouble. Simple.
Rajeev Gandhi was no brave heart who faced bullets to be called a martyr. He was just another politician who knew which side he should bend to escape from the heat of the moment. Indian people saw thru his cunning ways. Else, a part which got elected with the most massive mandate in the history would not have sat in opposition just five years down the line. Dont shed tears for him. When his family is not doing, why should you???
6. Regarding Vasundara Raje Scindia. You either are a very dumb guy not to understand what is dynastic politics all about or you are a very naive man to believe in all the rubbish that you speak. I dont believe you are either of this.
She is like a Paalegaara in the kingdom. What matters in the Kingdom is the King. His word rules. Much the same way Rahul’s writ reigns supreme in Congress. He need not be a minister. Did the lefties share the power in the center to be powerful. They knew how to pull strings and without the responsibility of the power, they enjoyed all the privileges of the power.
Same way with your rahul baba. Plus, you know he is being groomed for that ultimate position. In a few years time, he will certainly make his bid for the PM’s post. As of now, he is just happy dictating things to hapless congies and congie supporters like you.
BTW, did you happen to read the way he treated senior party leaders like Kharge etc when he did his Discovery of India tour’s Karnataka leg???
That, my friend, is the power of Dynastic politics.
Got it????
Dynastic rule in the Cong, Geriatric Rule in the Left and Oligarchy in the BJP and Anarchy in the BSP/ SP. Wow are we starved for choice!!!
and Gowdas’ rule in JD (S)!!
Advaith
When confronted with truth, you need to have the guts to face it, instead of sneaking away to a rat-hole.
This escapist attitude does not augur well for the development of the country.
Nobody is beyond criticism. Except God. Understand that please.
Abdul Kalam is a political appointee. Anything concerning politics is well within public eye, and therefore subject to criticism.
According to you: Congress appointed presidents can be criticized, but not BJP appointed presidents. What a farce.
Please rise above narrow political considerations and think from a national perspective.
SpinDoc Chintaka,
If I was you, I would have said, : “It is delightful to watch you squirming in embarrassment when all your long held beliefs have been turned on its head, repeatedly. After having been stripped naked, your only fig leaf of a defence is that you are a paid spokesperson of your party, and so you have to defend your masters till your last breath. Your defences are down. Learn to retreat, or continue to put your foot in your mouth with sillier and sillier arguments.”
But since I am not you, I won’t say that. I shall just forgive you for your tantrums – the tantrums of a child fed on a junk food diet of irrational beliefs.
1. Let me put this way: Without BJP’s support VP singh could not have become the prime minister. I want to pay you back in your own twisted coin. So here goes:
When I said BJP did not ask VP singh to Mandalize India, I said it as a matter of accepting your illogical argument. Come on man, dont be so naive to think that BJP will go and tell VP Singh To Mandalize India…. you may be stupid, but BJP was not. And these things need not be told to VP Singh. As long as he got political patronage, he does what he knows the best. To unleash the reservation genie on people.
Subsequently BJP withdrew support did you say?
Subsequently Punjab terrorism was eliminated…do u know that?
2. You and your other comrade in hand Advaith, continue to remain silent on Bal Thackeray’s comment on asking Hindus to form terrorists squads. Indira never asked anybody to form terrorists squads. But Bal Thackeray, your BJP’s best friend has asked Hindus to form terrorists squad. Yet BJP says nothing. Yet Chintaka says nothing. Yet Advaith says nothing.
3. Your statements border on anti national time and again. You keep saying Rajeev got what he deserved. So you are justifying a foreign tamil who killed our own Indian PM!!!!!!!!!!! You are justifying a foreign terrorist and criticizing our own Indian PM. Where is your pride for India? Where is your nationalism?
4. It is a shame that you accept Vasundahara as a palegara, in today’s democracy. If congress does it, it is dynasty politics and if Vasundara does it , it is palegara!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man, you gotta write a book on jokes..and publish all these quotes of yours!
5. Do you know something dead cannot be brought back to life? yet you keep flogging the dead horse of dynasty politics. You have already agreed it is wrong on Naveen Patnaik, to become a CM. He was a complete non entity, who was not even an MLA, when he became CM.
He is dictating things to a hapless BJP and BJP supporters like you. BJP supports him because they desperately need the kurchi. You agree that it is blatantly hypocritical of BJP to support Naveen Patnaik while criticizing Rahul Gandhi.
Elevate, upgrade the level of argument Chintaka and Advaith. Puhleeeeeeeeeease!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@CONgress Spokesperson AKA WrongFact…
What is the point in upgrading the level of argument when you wallow in your childish debates????
1. Like I told you, BJP was not the only party which supported V P Singh. I am asking you to read the history. You, like typical congies and commies, utter inanities again and again…..Going by your logic half of today’s political parties are responsible for Mandalization of country!!!!
2. Dynastic politics may be a dead horse for you. But for nationalistic Indians like me, it is not. You see, you may be willing to be ruled by a foreigner or her children. We are not. There lies the difference and that is the reason why her nationality will keep coming back to picture again and again.
3. Vasundhara Raje Scinidia is akin to a local chieftain. We are talking about kings and king makers. So your comparison in BJP should be with the likes of Vajapayee or Advani. You cannot stoop to the level of comparing the first family of Congress with all and sundry. Can you???
4. We know the kind of havoc Rajeev Gandhi created during his tenure as a PM. We know what great things his mother did when she imposed emergency on this country. We know the noble deeds of his brother during the same period. Highlighting these is not anti national. Keeping quiet and accepting them is.
5. You say Bal Thackreys call to form Hindu terrorist squad is wrong. But if the kind of muslim appeasement we are seeing continues unabated, a day will certainly come when such squads become reality. Have you noticed the way the JK muslims are protesting the land transfer deal??? Have you noticed the way Leftists are blocking the nuclear deal stating that the muslim sentiments will be hurt??? Are you living in this country, if you have not noticed these things?? Why are they happening? Because of the appeasement politics being played out by the governments of congies and commies.
SpinDoctor Chintaka
If I was you, I would have rudely told, ” Do you detach your brain and then write your replies.? Because the absence of a brain is severely felt in your replies.”
But since I am not you, i shall give a benign smile and continue:
1. Wah! You call yourself a nationalist! Yet, you have no qualms in doing exactly the opposite: You have no hesitation in:
a) Justifying a foriegn extremist from Sri Lanka who killed an Indian PM
b) criticizing a legally, democratically and constitutionally elected Sonia
The obvious inference: You support foreign terrorists, you support undemocratic, illegal and unconstitutional means.
2) Guess who is blocking the nuclear deal along with the left? THE BJP. If left blocks the nuclear deal it is muslim appeasement, if BJP blocks the nuclear deal it is nationalism? hahahhahahahah what a sordid state of affairs!
3) Congress never justifies any act of terrorism. Three of its leaders fell to extremist acts. But now i see you clearly justifying Bal thackeray’s call. Cong does not support Muslim or Hindu terrorism. You support one form of terrorism…
4) Vasundhara Raje is akin to a local chieftan? She cannot be compared to Sonia? Chintaka, it is not about comparision between individuals..it is the question of principles here. If you oppose dynastic politics, you should oppose it as a principle, and not use it selectively to suit your flawed thinking process. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander too.
In other words you are saying that you oppose dynastic politics at the highest level, while local leaders can indulge in dynastic politics.
It’s like saying that you oppose corruption at the highest level, but you shall gleefuly, uninhibitedly, wilfully, grease the palms of local officials!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wake up Chintaka. Do extra Chintan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dear WrongFact and other Congies present out there
I am so pleased to see you all going ga-ga over Congress regime and at the same time feel disgusted how people like you all have been brainwashed by the mere fact that you see some development around and have closed your eyes from the facts about Congress. On one hand it’s nice to see a discussion based on facts and figures is on the go but on the other it’s equally disturbing that most of you are busy in skirmishes that are based on stories cooked up by media and newspapers. The way Chintaka has come forward to put his views is applaudable whereas people like you are coming up with half cooked truths about Congress.
I can simply see here how Congress has been successful in misleading this country in the past and continues to do so at present as well. Your immature thoughts and interpretation of India’s political view is so very indicative here, of this fact. Needless to say, it’s not Congress who has been successful but it’s people like you who have closed your eyes and minds to what Congress has done and is doing to this country. It’s funny to see how people are ready to take any bullshit that Congress puts forth.
Wake up to the facts, my friends! It’s time to do some introspection and come to terms with what India really is all about. It’s not about baseless Congress ideologies or about the governance under the flagship of Congress family. We are not known to the world by the (under)developments of Congress who ruled India after the East India Company. If it had been like that, we would have gained recognition world over some forty years back. It was after Manmohan Singh’s economic reforms that we realised our true worth and started to show the world what we really are. Needless to mention our rich culture that is recogised by all. Hats off for Doc MS for opening the doors of world for us. But it was only he who had this vision and not Congress. Had he been given the chance in the years before those, he would have done that earlier but Congress was too busy to acknowledge that. Maybe Gandhi family never wanted us to realise our self worth and there could be endless reasons for that.
I cannot stop laughing on people who believe Railways got a turnaround because of Lalu. Pity on those who think a man like him can turnaround things for us. That doesn’t mean that Railways is not making profits, it definitely has started to reap the benefits which were masterminded by Railways management and no points for guessing who took all the credit. It was high time for Railways to deliver services and having the status of biggest organisation in the world, it was their time to come up with service offerings. The Railways mangement board adopted the corporate management style of functioning and not Laluji. I wish Laluji had taken the initiative of atleast turning around his state first or even his district for that matter. But the smart person that he is, he wasted no time in grasping the fundamentals of corporate style of management and vomitted them in various business schools. And there he aptly once again tried to make the fool out of millions of us and no wonder once again people fell victims to his acutely designed techniques. But some like us had forseen his cunning ways. First he deluded his state and now he’s deluding the whole nation.
It is really hard to stand the blabbering done by many of you in favour of Cong and Ms. Italian and Dream Team and company. I would suggest you to revisit history books written by renowned people and not just get carried away by media and news reports. Read those authors where you would come to know both sides of the story. Read contradicting authors and nothing will remain a mystery. It’s not that everything written in books is true and established as everyone has been writing its own version of history since time immemorial, it is when you open your eyes and apply your logic and mind into things, will you be able to interpret things better. There’s no other way out.
And Mr. WrongFact!! My goodness, the most misinformed of all just like the way Congress want people to be. I cannot resist replying your questions.
1. Yes, we are nationalist and hence our words.
a) An Indian PM was killed, I regret that but Rajiv Gandhi was killed, I have no qualms. Now don’t say it’s one and the same thing. As an individual he reaped what he sowed but since he was the PM, we regretted and retaliated his killing. Very unfortunate for us that he was the PM in those days as people like you elected him to power.
b) Everyone knew and was obvious that she would win from Amethi. But her winning a seat from there doesn’t make her favourite of all the Indians. Her luck favoured her at that point and Congress made it to form the government. She won’t be more luckier than this hence forth.
The obvious inference: Ms Italian is not favourite choice outside Amethi. Ignorant and misinformed people like you can be ruled by just anyone and everyone. No wonder some day any of Ms Italians distant Italian relative can come to power. Thanks to people like you. Tell your Congy counterparts to start appeasing them before it’s too late. You never know.
2. You sound so irritated, cool down! You seem to blow away this fact in laughter. Your choice. But dear, a fact remains a fact.
3. Supporting one form of terrorism, that actually doesn’t exist, has no harm. If we have to keep a check on another possible cultural invasion, we will do anything for it. Nothing wrong in that. But accepting it without a fight, only you can do it.
4. Even if you talk about principles and all, just take a look at who has done and is doing more harm to country as a whole. No points for getting that right. The so called Gandhi family has screwed our nation to the core but you won’t recognise those as you are too busy basking in the light of their principles. You probably don’t have a face to come to terms with reality. So nicely and conveniently you quoted that one can see a mobile phone in every person’s hand in rural areas. This quote is enough to reflect how enlightened and grown-up you really are.
Hats-off to you Chintaka!
SpinDoc Chintaka in disguise of VJ
1. You can ramble on and on and on without any conclusive facts. You guys are mistaking facts for perception. Allow me to tell you the difference:
a) Fact: Newsweek printed wrong facts about Raul Gandhi
b) Fact: Newsweek retracted the same story
c) Falsehood: Pioneer’s insistence that it was retracted because of Sonia Gandhi’s clout.
While the first two are verifiable, the third point is not. The third point is a mere assumption, a presumption..and not a fact. Did pioneer listen to a phone conversation of Sonia Gandhi asking Newsweek to retract? The point is people like you are so blinded by hatred towards the Gandhi family, that you start seeing motives where there is none.
Indian media (including Pioneer) is going hammer and tongs against the central govt. be it on inflation or the nuclear deal. When Sonia Gandhi cannot do anything to control the Indian media, why would she control some foreign publication which is read by 10 people in the whole of India?
What a ridiculous thought!
2. a)Fact: Indira Gandhi never asked Bhindranwale to kill innocents.
b)Fact: At various points in time Shiv Sena has directly asked people to bash up innocent Tamils, North Indians, Biharis, valentine lovers and Muslims
c) Fact: Shiv Sena has directly given an open call for Hindu Terrorist squads.
Yet, insanely the blame is always on the congress for violent acts, when record books show exactly the opposite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Truth is bitter my friends, when confronted with the bitter pill of hypocrisy of your party, you find it hard to swallow, right?
3. You guys seem to have a soft corner for terrorists. Your shrill criticism of a dead Indian PM is valid proof of that. India and Indians should come first and not some foreign terrorists.
4. Sonia Gandhi hasn’t won just once. She has won several times. People have elected her with full knowledge that she is the leader of the Cong party. The people voted for her, the entire UPA gave its approval to her becoming the PM. Yet she sacrificed the PMs post, because she did not want to create bad blood in the country. That is the greatness of Sonia Gandhi. No wonder she was hailed as a Saint.
Fact: In 2004, Sonia Gandhi did not grab the PMs chair even when a majority of MPs supported her.
Fact: BJP grabbed the PMs chair for 13 days even when they DID NOT have the support of a single MP apart from BJP MPs.
So, who has this naked lust for power?
Check today’s (2nd July 2008) Economic Times second page article. Amar Singh gives us a blow by blow account of how BJP tried desperately to dislodge congress out of power by getting into shady deals with other parties. So much so, that they even reached out to their arch enemy, the left!
The fact: certain parties are willing to do anything to come to power
5. You agree that Manmohan Singh opened India’s economy. But you don’t agree Manmohan singh belongs to congress…Can anybody drill any sense into the head of someone who thinks like this? it’s like saying Dhoni won the 20-20 world cup for India, but Dhoni is not an Indian…
6. Like Laloo, every politician has officials working under him. Even BJP politicians also have their own set of officials. So any credit to the so called achievements of BJP should actually go to the officials and not to the BJP politicians..right? If you agree to this line of thinking, i agree that Laloo does not deserve praise for turning around railways.
And Chintaka its better you write in your own nick, instead of a new pseudonym
@CONgress spokesperson AKA WrongFact….
What gave you the impression that I am stupid enough to write in another name???
I am not that person. I dont know who he is. Like all your presumptions about Congress and its performance, this too is WRONG and it is a FACT that you are WRONG!!!!! (What a name Sir jee?!!!!)
Rest of your ramblings??? I have answered then a number of times earlier. Still you keep coming back to the same illogical arguments. How can I help it???
Like they say, you can wake up a sleeping Kumbhakarna… but one who is pretending to be asleep????
God help him.
@CONgress spokesperson AKA WrongFact….
I could not resist answering you on this…
You say I am anti national because I am supporting an extremist who killed Rajeev.
WrongFact, the true fact is that Soniamma is partnering with a party who is openly sympathetic to the cause of the same extremist group for the sake of power.
You are gloating over the REVELATION of Amar Singh about BJP’s ploy to topple the government.
I am reminding you of a party which is willing to sleep with the enemy to remain in power!!!!
And Amar Singh’s revelation of this truth…. if BJP had even approached the left parties, do you think those jokers would have shut their mouths and kept quiet???? Considering the kind of love they have for BJP???
I accept your benign smile. Atleast you are good to smile when your FACTS are blown to bits!!! I appreciate that.
SpinDoc Chintaka
Like many of your presumptions, I will just laugh this off too. Congress never alleged that DMK supported Rajiv’s assasination. DMK may have supported LTTE’s cause for a Tamil Land, but DMK did not support Rajiv’s death.
Get the difference, man?
I continue to smile benignly at you.
@CONgress Spokesperson AKA WrongFact….
There we go again…..
Supports LTTE.. but does not support Rajiv’s death…
Supports bhindranwale… but does not support terrorism…
Like saying…
Osama is a good man.. but not his practice of creating terror…
Saddam was a good man.. but not his brand of politics…
Idi Amin was an angel.. except for his killing of people…
Get the picture, dude????
Wrongfact,
>>DMK may have supported LTTE’s cause for a Tamil Land, but DMK did not support Rajiv’s death.
Get the difference, man?
I continue to smile benignly at you.
>>
Wrongfact, when Karthikeyans team was probing the assisination of RG, it was the DMK government which was putting hurldes, in its path. A key witness, mysteriously hung himself in the jail cell in vellore. He could have provided clinching evidence as to who ordered the killing. But that was not to be. The assasins stayed in the house of one subbalakshmis in madras,for 3 months and she happened to be the sitting MLA of DMK at that time. Even, Justice Jain commission indicted Thiruka in its report. But Hajvani, had this deleted from the report, claiming it was a clerical mistake, because his government’s survival was dependant on the DMKs support at that time. Hope this helps.
@Wrongfact
Understand that I spoke about ehical debate. All I said is that certian persons are above politics.
You must have smeared you tongue with s… to be writing (defending) this way. You seem to have lost your power to think.
Mind you language.
SpinDoc Chintaka GRANDLY states:
“Supports LTTE.. but does not support Rajiv’s death…
Supports bhindranwale… but does not support terrorism…
Like saying…
Osama is a good man.. but not his practice of creating terror…”
You reasoning is specious and meaningless because I too can turnaruond and say:
You support nuclear deal but not support congress
BJP supports Shiv Sena but not shiv sena’s presidential candidate Pratiba patil.
Supporting somebody or some party on certain issues, does not mean supporting whatever they say. Yes, Cong supports DMK but neither DMK nor cong is for terrorist activites, unlike some of the parties you support
Got the difference man?
Advaith
Stop abusing me like this. Don’t dictate me as to who i can criticize and who i cannot. It is well within my rights to express my freedom of opinion.
You can criticize all and sundry, while I can’t
Stop this nonsense
Mayura
I don’t know the intricate details of what you are talking about.
But DMK was legally and constitutionally given a clean chit.
The courts ruled that there was no complicity involved from DMK’s part.
Rest is all speculation.
Who looted during emergency !It was Msaneka and her hubby =and when maneka’s husband dies -indira was looking for Keys – !But these were with Maneka -Keys leading to information and lockers of money looted during emergency !Was money and land not looted in emergency for MARITI Project !Willany RSS men deny that !I challenge them !As Maneka had the keys and did not give to Indira she was expelled from Indira’s house for good !Does RSS men hv any good reason than that !So now Maneka and her son Varun FIROZ has all the money in Swiss accounts ! This must be interoogated and brought back to India and all other money looted by corrupt leaders brought back to India ! Well can RSS the main Swiss account holders bell the cat !