SHARANYA KANVILKAR writes from Bombay: Waking up at five, switching on the computer, making myself a cup of coffee, and checking mails (and what the world has been upto) has become a daily, early-morning routine for me, before the kids wake up.
This morning, I did all that. But I also whistled silently when I came across E.R. Ramachandran‘s irony-filled piece on the denial of a US visa to Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi: “Do only Gujaratis have asmita? Don’t we Indians?”
Ah, an individual’s travel hassles wrapped in the tricolour. Sounds suspiciously familiar, I thought to myself.
Then, as the caffeine kicked in, I pondered the irony in Mr Ramachandran’s defence. The BJP has said “nobody was dying to go to the United States” and “nobody was looking for a certificate from it”. So, why this spirited defence on churumuri.com?
To turn the question around, if the BJP itself doesn’t have asmita about the denial of visa, why should we Indians?
But there was far greater irony in lawyer-cum-BJP spokesman Ravi Shankar Prasad‘s revealing defence. He says the US gives visas to dictators, fascists, murderers etc, but a “democratically elected leader of a federal state of India” was being denied the same.
Mr Prasad doesn’t tell us, nor does the author, that the same Narendra Modi employed an image management firm that polishes the images of dictators, fascists, murderers etc to buff up his image for the 2007 Gujarat elections, with the express intention of gaining a US visa.
If you can put that lapse down to poor memory, what if the United States had relented and given Modi a visa? Would Prasad still be saying that thing about the United States giving visas to “dictators, fascists, murderers etc,”?
You may call it a counterfactual question; the psychologists call it a Freudian slip.
Like all things with the BJP today, the ultimate irony was the contorted bid to twist and turn the facts to paint the issue as part of some vast anti-Hindu, anti-BJP, anti-Indian conspiracy. Mr Ramachandran says it “appears” as if the Congres-led UPA government is “happy” at the visa denial.
“Appears”?
To whom?
Secondly, he claims, the government isn’t asking questions?
Excuse me.
When Modi’s visa was revoked in 2005, the Congress-led UPA government had “lodged a strong protest“, called it “uncalled-for”, and said it displayed “lack of courtesy” to an elected leader. The Congress leader of the opposition in Gujarat had termed the decision unfair.
Well, it “appears” to me that it has done so this time too, because as Mr Ramachandran points out, nobody’s hands are clean and some Congress (and Shiv Sena, RJD, NCP, CPM, DMK, SP, etc) men and women with blood on their hands may have to travel abroad too.
What more should the government of the day be doing? Sit on a fast-unto-death outside the US consulate on Warden Road?
Then again, surely, the granting of a visa is a “sovereign right of any State”?
But the mother of all ironies is the sight of an ordinary citizen batting for an extraordinary leader—a 56-inch barrel chested man who thumps his “chhappan ki chaati“—when it should be the other way round.
# Hundreds of young, intelligent, ambitious, hard-working young men and women are denied a visa by the United States (and other countries) to study and work for the flimsiest of reasons.
# Hundreds of elderly men and women are denied a visa by the United States (and other countries) to join their children and kin for physical, moral and emotional support.
# Hundreds of adult men and women are denied a visa by the United States (and several other countries) despite a spotless record in life and their careers.
Where is our moral outrage at the discourtesy to our countrymen and women, all legal citizens of the “sovereign socialist secular democratic republic” of India with passports issued under the seal of the President of India?
Why, suddenly, does our heart beat for someone whose partymen (and affiliates) stopped the heartbeats in several hundred men, women and children, some unborn, because somebody, somewhere decreed that the action in Godhra deserved an equal and opposite reaction in the rest of Gujarat?
The answer is threefold:
i) We have fallen for the Goebbelsian propaganda tactics that the Hindutva Herd employs every night on TV to turn dark lies into shimmering truths.
ii) We are wallowing in majority victimhood, recently on display in various parts of the country, to show that one of our own is being needlessly victimised.
iii) We have fallen into the neocon trap of looking at elections as the ultimate certificate.
Narendra Modi may have democratically won a brute majority in 2003—the operative word being “brute”. He may have democratically come back to power on a brute majority in 2007. But aside from showing up our first-past-the-post democracy for what it is, it proves nothing.
It certainly does not automatically absolve him of his role in the 2002 pogrom before the US visa officer.
The truth is that Narendra Modi has a massive image problem regardless of how many times the soundbytes “good governance”, “incorruptibility”, “tough on terrorism”, etc, are drummed into the skulls of people by the BJP’s spokesmen and media heads. And he will have that massive image problem despite recent certificates of “statesmanship” that channels like CNN-IBN have been speedily conferring on him.
That massive image problem is his, his party’s, and their ideology’s.
It’s not a massive image problem of the honest, hard-working citizens of this country who go through unspeakable tension and humiliation before visa officers despite spotless clean financial, educational and police records.
***
Narendra Modi may thump his chest, slap his thighs, and twirl his moustache to show his manhood. He may glower at journalists, walk out of interviews, and shut out dissident voices and show his machismo. His name, face and mask may scare victims, voters, witnesses, rivals.
Those who ask questions, point fingers, and raise doubts may be shouted down. Those who remind the world of what happened may be labelled and branded.
All that may convince the converted (pun intended), not one of whom dare reveal such naked racist hostility before visa officers when they are in the queue for their H1B and B1/B2 visas.
But Narendra Damodardas Modi has been dubbed the “Slobodan Milosevic of India“, when not being dubbed a “modern-day Nero“.
He has to provide convincing answers for the deaths and injuries of thousands—Muslims and Hindus—under his watch. For the chilling images of barbarism that journalists, human rights activists, police officers, and others have captured and documented. For his barely concealed contempt for the minorities, the social and economic boycotts, the subversion of justice, for the institutionalisation of hatred.
Merely pointing to his electoral victory as if a clean chit has been issued to all that happened will not do. Suddenly pretending to be victim and ascribing an “anti-Hindu” conspiracy by the Christian West will not do. And pointing to similar excesses by brutes of the Congress party in 1984, or by brutes in the United States in different parts of the world, will not do either.
Ambitious Mr Modi aims to be prime minister in the medium term. He at least aims to be home minister in the short term. But he needs to demonstrate to the world that his hands are clean. Even before that, he needs to demonstrate his nuanced understanding of Newton‘s third law of motion to a US consulate officer sitting behind toughened glass.
For all his machismo and media manipulation, Modi seems patently unable to get past the first post.
Like India, the United States too is not entirely populated by angels. But unlike our democracy, it still has some systems, processes, checks and balances in place. Its lawmakers still can’t be bought en masse to ask questions or to vote like ours.
It’s not foolproof, of course, it’s not without its chinks, but it is there.
Salute it silently, while you wonder why a poor diamond worker in Surat may receive his visa-stamped passport by Speedpost™ while the all-powerful chief minister of his wondrous State can’t, hasn’t, won’t, and shouldn’t.
Photograph: Karnataka Photo News
Also read: ‘Intimidation won’t help restore Gujarati asmita’
WOW…all buddi jeevis talking whatever they want…
no one wants to analyze the events…
1. modi has NOT applied for any visa
2. some muslim organization asked the US officials about modis visa…they were told that he has not applied for it, but if he applies, he may not get it…so this muslim leader, for want of publicity, tom toms the news…modi denied visa!
3. media as usual, does not want to check the news, puts headlines…modi denied US visa…
4. predictably all the websites/ blogs fall in line…
(remeber the Nazi officer goof up in Goa? no one wants to check facts before ranting)
I find it hard to feel better about the US and our world knowing that Narendra Modi will never get to see Disneyland… in the near future.
It’s an interesting issue to consider at any rate. It is, of course, a fact that Narendra Modi is a democratically elected leader. Is it a moral obligation upon any particular country to grant visas to democratically elected leaders of other provinces? Well, we may say that it was also a fact that Hitler was democratically elected (at least initially until he seized power). What if he committed his atrocities under democratic rule? Should a country be forced to accept him too?
It therefore becomes clear that simply being democratically elected is not a sufficient condition for being granted a visa (or, indeed, legitimacy).
As for Mr.Modi’s case, it is abundantly clear that he was responsible for the deaths and injuries of countless human beings. Whether this, in and of itself, is grounds enough to deny him a visa is something each person should consider seriously.
Yes, one can criticize the United States for its blatant hypocrisy. They have in the past and continue to support murderers and killers. However, in this one case, perhaps they have gotten it right. Let us applaud their decision to deny this murderer a visa while still condemning them for supporting a vast number of other murderers elsewhere.
Excellent response!………….
p.s. it would be fair to say that if political and judicial system been perfect, Narendra Modi would probably be in jail if not for intentional murder, then for wilful negligence and protection of murderers. Thus, he would have been barred from taking part in the elections, would not be a leader, and the question of a democratically elected leader being denied a visa would not have even come up.
Why is he begging for US visa?
Modi doesn’t deserve a visa from any country and it is a shame that he is a Chief Minister of an Indian state. It is appalling how people can speak in his support in their right minds. I think Modi is the biggest downfall of the BJP. The BJP would have emerged as a responsible national party had it ditched him.
Sharanya Kanvilkar files her story which is clearly over a thousand words, at 4.50 pm. etvraviraja, who is waiting by his computer at this precise moment, reads the thousand words, assimilates its content, formulates a four-point response, and posts it… all by 4.57 pm.
All I can say is, wow!
The lightning speed suggests that there are a bunch of blog-hogs who are not interested in debate. All they are interested in is in delivering their set pieces, rants really, against the media, against intellectuals, against considered opinion, against everything that militates against their constricted worldview, to distract attention and distort the debate.
Like the guy who farted turning his nose up at the stink, our gentleman then has the gall to conclude that “no one wants to analyze the events” and the “media does not want to check the news”!
Neither ERR nor Sharanya has contended that Modi “applied” for the visa this time. But since Superman’s cheddi is showing, he has to be protected. Modi applied in 2005 and was rejected. Like a classic wimp he did not apply this time but wanted it to be delivered to him.
The Coalition Against Genocide (CAG) on whose efforts Modi has been denied the visa comprises 41 organisations including Christian, Sikh, Tamil, women, students bodies. Even the Vedanta Society of East Lansing is listed as a member of CAG. There are 10 other supporting organisations. But etvraviraja bravely asserts that “some muslim organization” asked the US officials who said he has not applied for it, but if he did it would be denied. Whichever way you read that, what does it mean? That some “publicity-seeking Muslim leader” has more influence over the US State department than Sardar Patel—Mark II.
Whether Modi applied for the visa this time or not, the point is that the US Department of State has officially confirmed in a letter to Congresswoman Betty McCullum that Modi continues to be persona non grata as far as the United States of America is concerned. 31 other Congressmen had written similar letters expressing concern at the human rights abuses in Gujarat. etvraviraja on the other hand concludes that “this muslim leader, for want of publicity, tom toms the news…modi denied visa!” Which “muslim leader”, Dr Hyder Khan or Dr Hari Sharma.
Go on, etvraviraja, amuse us.
All except etvraviraja
Please read point no 1 raised by etvraviraja. That should answer everyone….esp. sumkirla who thinks that modi is begging for a visa!
It is not question of Modi or XYZ. He is an elected represententive of the people of India.
In Democracy all sections of the society need attention. He deserves respect and its unfortunate that the Govt of India is not taken up his cause.
Federal Govt represents all sections of the society. In the event it does not take up his cause then it represents only a Party and not a Indian.
We let Musharaff in besides him supporting & harbouring terrorists against India. The world is hopelessly practical, in the end.
If I were Narendra Modi, if I wanted to conquer the world and become minister or prime minister sooner or later, I would be working overtime on my image, on my appeal among diverse sections of voters, on my media skills, my public relations skills. In short, I would try to be smarter, better. I would show some contrition, show some humility, show some learning of lessons like he seems to have done after the Ahmedabad blasts.
Sadly, those who see him as the messiah don’t like to see him that way and are working overtime to ensure that he doesn’t.
With friends like these, does Modi really need enemies?
If these chaps have so much influence in USA, why don’t they get the victims of Bhopal gas leakage episode, their rightful compensation?
Ah, Students for Bhopal is a part of the coalition, should not it motivate them?
Typical Indian trait of leg pulling! Show us by using your skills for something good!
Kindly dig up the names of other Indian clients of that lobbyist whose service was used by Mr. Modi, I bet that the Palm Party has definitely bought his services too!
I would say that the media is as guilty as him in the pogrom, media too has done every thing that is alleged to have done by him.
Whether did he impeded police and army from tackling the rioters is to be determined by an impartial and competent, judicial authority. Let there be fast track courts with good judges picked from other states, let us know for sure about the role of the State and its rulers.
Excellent post! What is sadder than having Modi as a CM is that there are so many who support him. If someone defended him by saying he was not responsible for the riots, then one could dismiss it as denial of facts. But many people seem to accept that he was responsible and yet praise him for it – one doesn’t know what to say for that!
Still I am not clear about why US is denying him a visa. Do they really care?
MK.
Looking at the way Gujarat is shining under Modi’s rule and how his influence is spreading beyond Gujarat (he made dozens of trips to Karnataka during recent elections and 90% of constituencies where he campaigned elected BJP candidates) it is possible we will see Modi as Prime Minister of India within few years.
Wonder what babus of US State Dept will do when they have to interact with Modi? US Ambassador begged for Modi’s appointment recently and went back empty handed when it was not granted. Modi is encouraging European companies in lieu of US companies in all the mega projects in Gujarat – so at the end of the day it is US which is suffering.
Also US Govt did not say they will deny visa – they just said we will evaluate it and decide – this is a standard response to any visa queries. US has a policy of not publicly discussing about individual visa applications.
Last but not the least when Modi has not even applied for visa why are all pseudo secularists celebrating imaginary visa application and its denial? Isn’t Internet great that without stepping on its soil Modi can speak (interactively mind you) with thousands in US?
The dude didnt apply for a visa:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/World_Gujarati_meet_starts_in_US_without_visa-less_Modi/articleshow/3426115.cms
But the US authorities have made it clear that they have searched through all their records and will deny him a visa if he applied for one.
The 2008 World Gujarati Conference is being held, where else? New Jersey in USA.
And as chief minister of Gujrat, Narendra Modi is not going to be attending the conference though not physically present.
He could have got the venue changed from the US to a country which would be more accommodating to his presence. But the gujjus have made their $$ in the US, UK and such countries. There is no option but to hold it in the US, and make appropriate noises here in India. And Modi, not even given a chance to apply for a visa, quietly has to attend by video conference.
“Why, suddenly, does our heart beat for someone whose partymen (and affiliates) stopped the heartbeats in several hundred men, women and children, some unborn, because somebody, somewhere decreed that the action in Godhra deserved an equal and opposite reaction in the rest of Gujarat?”
And we keep quiet while somebody burns 60 Hindu brothers and sisters? Wait, let all Hindu men wear bangles and sit at home while Hindustan becomes Turkistan. All Hindus get a US visa then, vacate India and let it be ruled by Talibans and Khans. We got to fight tooth and nail.
Prashanth Krishnamurthy…
see the excerpts of the “limited release” by CAG to the media…(please note that no other leader/member of CAG was interested in this “piece” of news)
—“We have thoroughly searched Department records and located no current non-immigrant visa applications for Modi. However, should we receive an application, we assure you it will be adjudicated in strict accordance with the Immigration and Naturalisation Act,” the official said.
Commenting on the letter, Hyder Khan of the CAG said “the current response from the State Department has virtually made Narendra Modi a persona non grata to the US.”—
My vote for the best response to this post goes to Prashant Krishnamurthy.
The “Vedanta Society of East Lansing” has nothing to do with the other Vedanta Societies run by the Ramakrishna Mission worldwide.
etvraviraja,
I have no intention of hurting you where it hurts most, but have you heard the old adage that it is better to keep one’s mouth shut and let people assume you are a fool rather than opening it and removing all doubt about it?
Who are you trying to fool with your bullshit on toast about the CAG’s “limited release”? How on earth have you and you alone received it, when on its original press release announcing the State Department’s move not to give a visa, two people are listed as contact persons: Dr Hari Sharma and Dr Hyder Khan.
I am looking at the PTI story from Washington in the Hindustan Times, It quotes Dr Hari Sharma in the last paragraph.
I am looking at the Indo-Asian News Service story from Washington on the NRI edition of MSN. It quotes Dr Hari Sharma in the last paragraph.
I am looking at the Zee News “bureau report”. It quotes Dr Hari Sharma in the fifth pargraph from the bottom.
For all I care, Dr Hari Sharma may belong to the same organisation as Dr Hyder Ali but you fool nobody by painting Campaign Against Genocide as “some Muslim organisation” or its spokesman as “publicity-seeking Muslim leader”. It has all kinds and shades of people in it, including Hindus. While I am at it let me assure you that a sizeable number of Hindus are against genocides of all kinds.
I could go on and on to show that you and your ilk only read what you want to read, or that you have primed your Google reader to only show up “some Muslim leader” or “some Muslim organisation” you want to vilify—or dare I say you are paid to vilify. But I don’t want to get personal.
After applying for a visa and being denied one in 2005, Narendra Damodardas Modi got the message and did not apply for a visa this time in 2008. But as this Indo-Asian News Service story in The Economic Times shows, Narendra Damodardas Modi did not have the guts to apply for a visa this time.
IANS quotes Sunil Nayak of the Association of Indian Americans in North America delivering this gem: “Unless the US consulate gives a surety that it will grant Modi the visa, he will not apply.”
Maybe it’s Nayak’s reading, but “surety“?
In the same report, IANS quotes Chandru Bhambhra, president of the Friends of Overseas BJP (FOBJP) and a close confidante [of Modi], as saying: “Modi told me some months ago that he was not going to apply for a US visa since he faces the risk of denial, which could hurt his reputation.
Maybe it’s Bhambra’s inference, but “risk of denial” that could “hurt his reputation“?
I am not a spokesman of “the honest, hard-working Indians” on whose behalf Sharanya bats, but I am willing to stick my neck out for “the honest, hard-working Indians” and say that they have more guts than Narendra Damodardas Modi. At least they have the guts to take the risk, to go through the tension, to go through the humiliation, and face rejection than Narendra Damodardas Modi.
For the sake of “honest, hard-working people” of this country, I hope you are not a mediaperson. If you are, as you like to hint with the first three letters of your screenname, my advice to you would be to get out of it and join the party and spread the poison.
Sharanya Kanvilkar files her story which is clearly over a thousand words, at 4.50 pm. etvraviraja, who is waiting by his computer at this precise moment, reads the thousand words, assimilates its content, formulates a four-point response, and posts it… all by 4.57 pm.
And PK waits for two-three hours more and chooses to rant like a fanatic… with liberal choice of abuses hurled. Moreover, he is also a mind reader.. else he could not have written “Like a classic wimp he did not apply this time but wanted it to be delivered to him.” .. Not only he knows that Modi is a wimp (classic variety in that), but he also knows that Modi wanted the visa to be delivered to him May I ask, Sir PK, why did you leave the name of the courier service, the name of the delivery boy, time the visa was expected, whether Modi or his PA would be accepting the delivery of Visa and other details…. I get it… it is for the benefit of aam junta who clearly can’t see that CAG or whatever stands for and comprises for.
Modi applied for Visa in 2005.. But the issue we are discussing is not what happened in 2005. What would happen “if” Modi applied for a US visa in the year 2008. Of course when it comes to Modi.. any year is fine with Psickular langotis.
Oh.. and by the way PK has seen a lot of cheddi’s I suppose. For he can clearly “see” a cheddi (Superman special) where there is none.
A fanatic rant whether comes 3 minutes after the post or 3 hours, 3 days or 3 years.. is still what it is… a fanatic rant. Your post only shows the intolerance you’re seeped in.
Why bother? Please go on.. I need a few laughs at my work!
Instead of creating such a ruckus on the US denying Visa for mr Modi, why dont they conduct the gujurati meet in India or other countries where he may not face a visa problem? Why dont the gujjus take pride in conducting world meet in their home state?
Modi is not going to lose anything if US does not give him a visa. Like earlier, he can address the conference thru video conferencing which he extensively uses in his day to day administration. Can you name one CM in this country who has worked extra time getting up at 5:00 AM to start meetings with the Police top brass to solve the recent bombings in their state. For almost a year now (beginning with the Hyderabad blasts), various states have not been able to identify the prime suspects let alone arrest them in any of the bomb blasts. Why are people against Modi?? Is it because he is a strong leader who believes in working 18 hrs every day and make Gujarat a model state in terms of economy and adminstration? When US bombs Afghanistan and Iraq, nobody voiced any serious concerns. Why blame Modi for the Godhra and the aftermath? As far as I am concerned, he is a leader worth emulating for his determination and dedication in making Gujarat one of the best adminstered states in India..
Sandesh,
“Liberal choice of abuses”?
Since when did the label “classic wimp” become a pejorative to describe a master of hate speech, a man who in his saner moments used to rant like a cracked canine?
We are talking of a man who had to respond to the Election Commission because he was alleged—alleged, mind you—to have publicly clamoured for the killing of Sohrabuddin: “Kill him, kill him.”
We are talking of a man who has no qualms about stereotyping people by their religious and socio-legal norms (“Hum paanch, hamare pachees”) and their names (“James Michael Lyngdoh”).
We are talking of a man who said “Relief camps are actually childmaking factories. Those who keep on multiplying the population should be taught a lesson”, we are talking about making fun of their economic condition (“they fix cycle punctures).
We are talking of a man who heaps sexist stereotypes (“Sanjay (Gandhi) was only Maneka’s husband), who makes racist fun of high constitutional authorities (“James Michael Lyngdoh issued a fatwa”), and wishes a Jalianwala Bagh type massacre against Muslims.
We are talking of a man who takes pride in having purged “entire villages of Islam”
And your fragile hackles are raised because I call him a “classic wimp” for not having had the guts to apply for a visa? The point really is this: Narendra Damodardas Modi will be judged by US visa officers not just for what he did but for what he has said. So far, his horrific record isn’t helping him.
It’s wonderful, of course, that he has managed to convince so many people that Gujarat’s progress, development and growth all began under his able leadership and that Gujarat was worse than Bihar for 55 years after Independence. But a GDP rate is not what a visa application is judged on, not in the civilised parts of the world anyway.
The man may be smart enough to recognise that he needs an image makeover if his ambitions are to be realised, but he is trapped in his own image. Aatmasakshi is probably right, with friends like these, Narendra Damodardas Modi doesn’t need enemies.
ps: as for Superman and cheddi, I hope you know the difference between Man and Superman.
How about filing criminal defamation cases?
Slug it out in courts and if they are found guilty, they either come and serve the sentence or they permanently stay out of the country!
Wonderful, no? :o)
PK
“………………… ……………. …………………………“entire villages of Islam”
If Modi rants and displays his worst behaviour do you want to follow suit ? And if US judges him based on it’s perception, so be it. We need not get worked up for it.
I have been denied US visa within the last 6 months (once in Jan and again in July). So, if I don’t apply again .. I’ll be a “wimp”, “gutless weasel” and so on, is it ?
If a man doesn’t apply for a visa and the authorities say they won’t issue one (as there is no application to process) tell me how does it make him all the things you said ?
I am no supporter of Modi…. but it is simply ridiculous to bring in all the irrelevant details and slain a man.. If you think he is all what you have said, let the courts punish him. Whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty”?
If I or someone else were to reply to your claims about Modi…then it will be a never ending battle… my point is this.
A. An organization asked visa authorities whether Modi would be granted a visa if applied
B. Authorities said NO
C. That’s the end……………… why bring in all the “asmita”, “hard working Indians” ” gujju pride” ” election commission…. et al” into this?
Some facts that can aid the discussion here.
1) Visa denial is not equal to a trial outcome. Visa is a chance outcome, many people get rejected with no apparent reason. So do not read too much into it.
2) Once rejected under 212 (a) (2) (g) of Immigration and Nationality Act, you can never apply again for visa. Visa denial is for life time unless you accept the guilt and seek a waiver. CAG needs to stop spending money and time on petitioning department of state on Modi every now and then and claim a big victory
3) Whether Modi is guilty or not guilty has to be decided by court and not by US consulate
4) 212 (a ) (2) (g) is applied to persons who are suspected of trampling on religious freedom and hence perhaps not applicable to rapist, despots, bandits who may not have been stopped by consulate.
5) Consular officer has liberty to apply his wisdom and act on belief rather than facts. So talking about facts is useless.
Those who have applied for an US Visa know how uncertain the outcome would be even if you have all the documents to support. Visa officers err on the safer side and the rejection per se need not be taken to heart. After 9/11 the things are pretty tough and even the slightest doubt results in visa denial
Prashanth writes: It’s wonderful, of course, that he has managed to convince so many people that Gujarat’s progress, development and growth all began under his able leadership and that Gujarat was worse than Bihar for 55 years after Independence. But a GDP rate is not what a visa application is judged on, not in the civilised parts of the world anyway.
Lol. Please educate us folks on what basis is the Visa given or denied. Your comments are the need of the hour. As Sandesh said, I cant seem to get enough of you.
so rajiv gandhi is a holy cow for you too?
“Why should we run relief camps, these are baby producing factories ”
Modi is “alleged” to have “said” this.. according to Teesta and her friends.
Readers, tell me…… what comes to your mind ?
If it is muslims you presume(as I did..but I am anyway been branded a “cheddi”)… then that prejudice comes from us and not from Modi’s “alleged” speech.
***
For the record .. Pradeep= Sandesh (I sometimes get bored of my name and use an alias..:))
read this to get enlightened about the fanatics mind
http://www.indianexpress.com/comments/355832.html
Ha Ha Ha… And after the entire Ramayan is over… SumneNeeve blinks her/his/its eyes and says who is Ram… Priceless :)
But, the contribution for best gag of Sep 02, 2008 must go to Sandesh’s impassioned desperate defense of Modi (who he does not support!!!)… Sandeshji – i think you posted your comment on the wrong blog post… it needs to actually be here…
http://churumuri.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/do-only-gujaratis-have-asmita-dont-we-indians/
LOL… It might have actually have better context :)
CAG is a fascist organization. It’s agenda is clearly anti-India and there are enough people in US and in the west (and in China and Pak for that matter) who happily oblige Indians who are bent on damaging India’s interests.
Propaganda aganist Modi suits well with many anti-India elements.
101dreams…
Thanks for your compliments. You know, I am more determined to keep up my good work for the sake of my fans.
And BTW would you also start different categories for other commentators on this and other blogs? They too need to know what you think of them :)
***
101dreams
Another proverb for you …. Empty vesselsu making more noiseu.. no factsu only laughsu..why bothersu? anyway he is dumbsu :-)
Perhaps 100000001 dreams can join Prashanth and educate us stupid folks on the norms of visa denials.
Please, take the center stage and shower us some mercy so that by your mere association, we can feel the touch of heaven. :)
Suppose in future, Modi is elected the Prime Minister of India, would US severe diplomatic ties with India and declare it as a Pariah state..just wondering :)
What work will the psecs arundirty roy, twista setalvad,hyder khan,shabana didi have?
The day Modi even hopes to get a visa will be the day the Bible-belt-Republican-Christian-hick lobby of USA ceases to influence the US Govt. Brilliant those hicks and their lobbying! They are refused entry to come preach in India and they pay back in the same token.
This is very comical, the make-up of CAG, that is.
“This anti-Hindu group, which called itself Coalition Against Genocide (CAG) included the following organisations:
Alliance for a Secular and Democratic South Asia (ASDSA)
American Federation of Muslims of Indian Origin (AFMI)
Association of Indian Muslims of America (AIM)
Association of South Asian Progressives (ASAP)
Center for Study and Research in South Asia (CERAS, Montreal)
Dharma Megha
Federation of Indian American Christian Organisations of North America (FIACONA)
Forum Of Inquilabi Leftists (FOIL)
Friends Of South Asia (FOSA)
Hindu Vaishnava Center for Enlightment
Indian Christian Forum (ICF)
Indian Muslim Educational Foundation of North America (IMEFNA)
Indian Muslim Council-USA (IMC-USA)
Indian Muslim Relief and Charities (IMRC)
International South Asia Forum (INSAF)
Muslim Youth Awareness Alliance (MYAA)
NRI´s for Secular And Harmonious India (NRI-SAHI)
Policy Institute For Religion And State (PIFRAS)
Sikh American Heritage Organisation (SAHO)
Sneha (A network for women of South Asian origin)
Vedanta Society of East Lansing
World Tamil Organisation (WTO)
Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)
There are three Poddars, all from the same family, with six organisations between them – Shrikumar Poddar, President, India Foundation, USA (this is besides his avatars in the Vedanta Society and Hindu Vaishnava Center for Enlightenment), who is also co-founder of the pompous-sounding NRI SAHI or Non-Resident Indians for a Secular and Harmonious India (whatever that may mean); Mayurika Poddar, Vice-President, Seva International, USA; and Devesh Poddar, Treasurer, Coalition for India, Undergraduate Students, USA. There is no other information about Shrikumar except that he happily signs any letter drafted by the anti-Hindu Marxist, Muslim and Missionary gang in the USA to lend their various causes a Hindu touch. He is the ´Hindu´ drop that flavours the pretentious and blatantly false ´multi-religious´ claim of this NGO coalition against the RSS. The three members of the family besides Sripada Raju can ensure four signatures amongst themselves citing four organisations, or four names citing six organisations, to all letters and petitions drafted by this group. Similarly, while these two so-called ´Hindu´ organisations have at least the two names, Poddar and Raju as signatories, the Dharma Megha, which is also a part of the Coalition Against Genocide has neither a website nor a person´s name. We also do not know if it is another pretentious ´Hindu´ or even a pseudo ´Buddhist´ drop.”
http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=935&Itemid=99999999&limit=1&limitstart=2
C’mon, this has to make you laugh.
“The three members of the family besides Sripada Raju can ensure four signatures amongst themselves citing four organisations, or four names citing six organisations, to all letters and petitions drafted by this group.”
I believe Dr. Sree has a valid question about why the conference was held in NJ when it could have been held in India or another country to avoid these issues. I guess most of the participants were from the States and it would have posed a lot of logistical problems to have so many of them travel to other countries. For that matter whether it is the World Guj Conference, the Vishwa Kannada Sammelana or a world conference for any other Indian language, most of those are held abroad, usually in the US. Maybe with technology the location should not matter in future.
I feel this is the only one thing US Secretory of state Condoleezza Rice has done with a good intention. Eventhough they couldn’t bring Modi in front of an international court like the Serbian leader Milosevich for genocide, denial of visa is considered as an international insult.
The letter from a group of congress men headed by Joe Pitts to Secretary of State to Deny/Revok Narendra modi’s US visa.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2005/mar/18pitts.htm
A like him is no better than a fanatic dictator.
Selective secularists and selective visa issuing Yankee babus seem to be having something in common.
Whatever the reason for denial of visa, the US (and every country in the world) has complete discretion on who it allows into its territory. They don’t owe a visa to anyone. That is part of the definition of sovereignty.
When a commentator starts making fun of the screen-names of co-commentators (as SumneNeeve gracelessly does calling “101 dreams” “100000001 dreams”), it is a sign of admission that the debate has ended and the other side has nothing more to say.
But I find Sandesh alias Pradeep’s white flag too tempting to resist one last stab: “If Modi rants and displays his worst behaviour do you want to follow suit? And if US judges him based on its perception, so be it. We need not get worked up for it.”
Why?
Why should we not “get worked up” at the mad rants of Narendra Damodardas Modi in the last five years? Why should we not judge him, question him, and hold him to account for it when he and his racist brood have absolutely no qualms in judging Muslims by what was said, written or laid down centuries ago, in some far corner of the globe?
How come we are always cornering “moderate Muslims” to speak up when there is a bomb blast or an act of terrorism when the great majority of Muslims have no role? How come we are not demanding that “moderate Hindus” do the same when Narendra Damodardas Modi and his racist brood indulge in verbal terrorism when, presumably, the great majority of Hindus have no role in it and do not share their views?
To “get worked up” is not to be indulge in “pseudo-secularism”—as if all Hindus are congenitally supposed to back the words and deeds of this blood-sucking brood—but a plain and simple exercise of our rights and freedoms as “honest, hard-working citizens”.
*
@ Narayana: Yes, a US visa is a chance outcome in the books, but can anybody argue that it is just a matter of “chance” that Narendra Damodardas Modi has been denied a visa despite the not-inconsiderable financial muscle of Gujarati NRIs in the United States?
Yes, a visa interview is not a “trial”, but given the ease with which Narendra Damodardas Modi and his racist brood seek to tar-brush and tarnish the motives and motivations of journalists, human rights bodies, activists, the courts, et al, who do not agree with what they have done or are doing, this is the closest thing the civilised world has to a trial by proxy.
Narendra Damodardas Modi will not, repeat, will NOT be automatically absolved of his role in the state-sponsored pogrom if the US grants a visa, because after all a visa is just a travel document. But by making him work for it, the United States has shown us that its law and order machinery, its homeland security, its constitutional bodies, its human rights bodies, etc, cannot be so easily branded, brushed aside and bulldozed as they Narendra Damodardas Modi and his racist brood have in India.
Is Narendra Damodardas Modi alone supposed to go through this trial by proxy and the resulting humiliation? Of course, not. Every single Indian leader, whether of the Congress, Left parties, Samajawadi Party, Rashtriya Janata Dal, Majlis, Muslim League or Shiv Sena should go through it. The fact that so many have got their visa stamps while Narendra Damodardas Modi of the BJP has not, shows how seriously he has harmed his own case.
Narendra Modi is a patriot.
Some people either do not like patriots like Modi or have bought into the propaganda unleashed by the anti-India forces.
And handful of people, in USA, born in India (and thus call themselves Indians) and Pakistanis and Bangladeshis (labeling themselves as ‘South Asians’ because they are not exactly proud of their origin), have campaigned hard and manipulated the system and have succeeded.
Of course, US authorities were too happy to oblige, gleefully! What do you want them to do when Indians themselves lie and work so hard to keep a patriotic fellow-Indian out of US shores?
But I have to admire the way Modi and Gujaratis are handling these unfair, cunning detractors and their calumny. I suspect Modi and Gujaratis will come out as winners by making Gujarat a economic engine that will steamroll all the false propaganda.
I urge those who are happy about so called ‘visa denial’ to celebrate this ‘victory’! You deserve it.
“it is a sign of admission that the debate has ended and the other side has nothing more to say.”
You also said
“If you are, as you like to hint with the first three letters of your screenname, my advice to you would be to get out of it and join the party and spread the poison.”
I get it… you, PK Sir, has the right to advice people based on their screenname but we ordinary mortals are not!!
“Why should we not “get worked up” at the mad rants of Narendra Damodardas Modi in the last five years?”
Dear Dear…….. I said we should not get worked up on how and why US judges Modi.. I did not say you not to judge him. Why give any s*** as to what US says ?
“How come we are always cornering “moderate Muslims” to speak up when there is a bomb blast or an act of terrorism when the great majority of Muslims have no role?”
No, I am not. I will corner any sane muslim to speak up when their community indulges in terror. And if by sane muslim, if it means moderate ones…so be it? Moreover, why NOT corner moderate muslims? Who else to corner? They are the ones who speak up against Indian Govt when some muslim-centric issue crops up (Remember the shabana azmis, javed akhtars, mukesh bhatt (:)), teesta and so on)
“How come we are not demanding that “moderate Hindus” do the same when Narendra Damodardas Modi and his racist brood indulge in verbal terrorism when, presumably, the great majority of Hindus have no role in it and do not share their views?”
Who says moderate hindus are not cornered? I am a moderate hindu and you are cornering me. And I am answering you. So are most of us hindus.. On the other hand, do you see any muslims condemning a bomb blast ?? rarely.
“To “get worked up” is not to be indulge in “pseudo-secularism””
Heavens No…. To get worked up is to condemn a man (unproven guilty by Indian court) on the basis of denial of a visa (which he hasn’t applied for) by a foreign power. And stop that “honest hardworking Indian” BS… I too am a honest hard working Indian but my friends don’t judge me on the basis of whether I get a visa or not.
“Yes, a US visa is a chance outcome in the books, but can anybody argue that it is just a matter of “chance” that Narendra Damodardas Modi has been denied a visa despite the not-inconsiderable financial muscle of Gujarati NRIs in the United States?”
Why not? How can you, PK Sir, prove conclusively that it cannot be the case that Modi was denied Visa on a chance? Even if you, PK Sir, can, what does it reflect on Modi? It will only say what US thinks on Modi and nothing on Narendra Damodardas Modi.
“this is the closest thing the civilised world has to a trial by proxy.”
The closest thing a civilised, democratic country can do is to frame charges on the said man and drag him to court. I have never seen “civilised world” settling issues by denial/acceptance of Visa. New concept of justice is it? We can all throw away our court and just set US visa as a bench mark.
“Is Narendra Damodardas Modi alone supposed to go through this trial by proxy and the resulting humiliation? ”
Maybe you think it is a humiliation…. but denial of visa is NOT considered a humiliation by any stretch of imagination.
But we have horribly digressed. The main points are still
a) An organization wrote to US authorities if Narendra Damordas Modi will be granted a visa if he applies
b) The authorities wrote back saying he will not be issued.
c) Organization claims Modi has been denied visa…..and it is ridiculous statement!
Interesting to note that what is good and bad in Indian politics is decided by the US State Dept., through a visa trial and resulting “humiliation”.
Prashant and Sharanya
Keep up the good work. We need more ppl like you !! Sane voices are becoming a rarity and it is refreshing to see ppl who speak up spiritedly after doing their homework. It is important that someone expose the lies and half-truths the communalists keep spreading.
Take care all the same.
Thanks
Bravo!! prashant
PK Girpade!
You are quite amusing!
I still stand by my first comment!
PK says: “this is the closest thing the civilised world has to a trial by proxy.”
This is the best line. Quote of the day. Btw, PK, is “trial by proxy” a sign of civilized world or sign of despotic countries, like Pakistan et al who have perfected “trial by proxies”
What say you? :)
***
Just for the record, neither Prashanth nor 1000000000000000000000001 dreams have educated us folks on how/why a visa gets accepted or rejected.
I am still waiting.
Whoa that’s a long post. And a plethora of comments. I’d be honest. I didn’t read all that is here to be read.
Simply, why is it such a big deal that we should even be talking about it. I am just happy that US showed him the middle finger. Afterall what could we achieve with all our protests. All the long long pages written and published against the Gujrat genocide all the ‘Action Aid’ actions, the online petitions, the facebook groups…What good were they for? Modi won the elections with flying colors, still ruling over the very people whose family’s he probably destroyed. In the end Modi showed the middle finger to all his critic in this country. Bush has the power to shame him and he rightly did so.
Did CAG ever campaign and write to the State Dept. about the Congress party bigwigs (connected-directly or indirectly, with the massacare of Sikhs in Delhi, in 1984) and about the Kashmiri azadi-jihadi wallahs (connected with ethnic cleansing of the Pandits in the valley)?
Sanjukta
Please read both the post and comments before making a fool of yourself.
SumneNeeve – I didn’t think your comment justified a response. As Prashant pointed out, if the debate is about screen names, it’s an admission that the debate has ended. Also, as I already said, the visa process has been very clearly already spelled out in the many comments… So re-read thrice… If you don’t get it… Then, you just don’t get it :)
Sanjukta – I think it’s a good thing you didn’t bother to read all the comments. You’d just have come away feeling disgusted at how crappy and full of hate people can be.
But, you got the gist of it right. The US showed Modi the middle finger in 2005 and rightly kept it extended in 2008. End of story.
Sharanya/Prashant – thanks for your post and comments. Else, I think I’d have left this blog feeling for the first time in my life very ashamed to be Indian.
100000000000000000000000000001 dreams: I didn’t think your comment justified a response. As Prashant pointed out, if the debate is about screen names, it’s an admission that the debate has ended.
LoL. What next? Will you say “Since you are wearing red undergarment, I dont think so you deserve a response”. What fun. Side stepping the main issue by trivialities and then trying to take the moral high ground.
The visa issue has been clearly specified. Like what, “trial by proxy” ?
Agreed!!!
NaReNdRa MoDi FoR pRiMe MiNiStEr!!!
under his rule, the financial part of this country will be given a much need boost while modi will do some hardcore discipline against the pak-supporting/islam-seeking traitors who multiply like rats in lucknow and south india.
good response vjk
may be the “secular Hindus” or the “rnis”(resident non-indians) want to serve their Muslim masters by sending their “castrated males” as a tax to their treasury!, just like their forefathers did!
Prashant Krishnamurthy Says: on 2 September 2008 at 1:10 pm
I wonder if Prashant K will stand by his accusations against Modi in this above post?
It’s fun to research these accusations. Please do it in your free time.
@ Palahalli
People like PK will surface next when Modi wins big time :)
This was really cool.Can you teach me more about Newtom’s laws of motion?