Indian political leaders including the gutless PM and his entourage were sleeping all these months when sporadic but orgainsed attacks were taking place in major cities. The Congress and its fellow travellers have been too cozy with muslims and their organisations since Nehru’s time. PM Singh and his minstry let the terrorism grow without taking any strict actions fo fear of offending their Islamic chums.
This carnage was waiting to happen. Just why any foeigner wants to visit India which has become a banana republic is beyond me. Until India is seen to get grips with the terrorist problem, no foreigner visitor should visit India, including all business, trade govt and parliamentary delegations which will alone put pressure on sleeping Singh and Co. India with its 20% muslim population equal to the numbers inhabiting in USA is a complex problem requiring some hard solutions. I know that Indian leaders are not upto it.
Other countries like Britain, USA and Spain did suffer from terrorist attacks, but they learnt their lessons from failures and constant vigil is being kept and questionable cells are monitored. It will not happen in India. Best advice is to shun the place.
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larissa
Shame to all who were dwelling on Hindu terrorism. This is what happened as a result.
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thalaeharatae
seriously, as Advani said, this is the time to rise above politics, religion, caste and what not.
We can worry about all of that later on, lets for the moment, pray for the well being of the citizens stuck there. Once they are all out safely, we should then as a country analyse what we want to be, where we want to be and how to get there.
Ravi, if you cannot behave like an Indian while pretending to be concerned about India…why bother writing about these things?
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Truth From Facts
Expect URA to condemn NSG commandos for harassing innocent minorities who came on boats
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krishna
Hi what the heck is happening isn’t this supposed to be done by the RSS and the sangah with the help of ppl like the sadhvi, these ATS guys were sleeping with a bomb ticking below their arse.
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Gurushant
Our spineless, crawling PM said that the attacks on the christians and churches was a national shame? Is this death and mayheim a pround moment for him? He is a disgrace to the brave Sardars’ community. India is no longer safe even for Indians. How can we claim to be a future superpower, when we have a government, which knows nothing beyond statements, and vote bank politics.
These terrrorists could walk in with such weapons only because the Government, for fear of offending the minorities has castrated the security forces, which would have and could have caught the haul of weapons.
The battles no longer take place on distant borders. The battles take place right amidst us, before our eyes. But, this idotic government puts up radio advertisements claiming that every Indian is a soldier in its battle against terrorism. Government is using Indians as cannon fodder. There are a over a billiion Indians. Few hundred more deaths hardly matter to the nattily dressed home minister and the PM whose heard cries out when minorities are hurt.
If the government continues to be negligent about finishing off terrorists and their harbourers, the time will not be far when more Col.Purohits will surface to the government’s job.
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induramesh
The words the PM used, that violence will not be tolerated, that the guilty will be brought to book, that people should remain calm etc. How many times have we heard those words? From the PM, from the most ineffective Home Minister this country has had, from Madam who has to read out even those three sentences, I agree with you Gurushant hundred percent
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Doddi Buddi
Dear All,
I agree with Ravi and also the need to rise above all and stay united! I am wondering where are the champions of Seculars like URA and Dirty Devegowda at this time?
That duffer of ATS chief Karkare paid with his life when he confronted the ‘real’ terrorists–all along the man was addressing a press conference everyday! During this time the real terrorists were plotting to kill innocent people and create mayhem.
I think we have to go back to stringent laws and constant vigil if there has to be any sense of security for the common man.
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Ravi
Palahalli,
I am stating the truth and you cannot digest it. Talk to your brethern
who are toting the AK-47 holding hostages, and better crawl at their knees to let these visitors go whose sole crime is to do business with India. Do not shoot the messenger.
As for me pretending to be an Indian- I used to know one Palahalli S an MLA lter became a congress minister who looked only after himself and came to every home with folded hands at the time of elections.
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Tathagata Mukherjee
Its a clear case of Hindu terrorism. Vote UPA, save country.
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Hiker
Doddi Buddi,
Yes..I too agree we need more stringent laws but laws are one part of the solution. They come into picture after the terrorist attacks. For a jihadi who is brainwashed in a madrassa to die for Islam, laws are immaterial. They just don’t care for it. So the solution lies elsewhere.
Strike Porkistan (i.e attacking the roots). Eliminating Porkistan or breaking it up (Sindhudesh, Baluchistan, Pashtunistan) should now be the goal. Enough of this sh*t. The least that this government can do is to bomb PoK. But then it is Sonia, MMS and Shivraj ‘armani’ Patil at the centre not Indira G :(
One central minister called this attack “India’s 9/11”. I would like to ask him whether the govt will respond like America did.
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Ravi
DB
When Tamil Tigers ran amuck and that was the first time people in Mysore saw what AK-47s looked like, for one was brandished at the face of one of my relatives when these thambis of Thiru Karuna stopped a train and robbed people of their belongings. The Congress govt of Rajiv Gandhi did not act for fear of alienating Thiru Karuna and he unltimately became their victim.
When Bangalore was terrorised with bomb blasts, State govt did nothing and Indian govt kept on turning the other way. It is a well known fact since Nehru’s time the Islamic constituencies have been feted, wooed and two presidents of India, countless chief justices of states were muslims to recognise them. I am not an Islamic-phobe but surely these thugs must have had their cells in muslim communities for long before perpetrating this crime. There is much collateral damage in yesterday’s atrocities, many dead mumbai city dwellers perhaps are innocent muslims. But for these jihadis, it does not matter as it did not when they exploded a subway train in London on 7/7 which was packed with muslim passengers as the station was serving a precinct with majority muslim Londoners.
PM Singh and the real power queen Sonia will not act unless the foreign companies, call centres, links to India through business etc. are pulled out.India needs stringent homeland security framework like the USA and Britain and strict laws of detention are to be passed. I am sorry to say that it will not happen. It is insult to those who were killed yesterday for merely going about their business.
Your “foreigner” centric breast beating is very irritating.
Hindus need security for themselves. That will automatically take care of any foreigner visitor. Don’t worry.
If you persist in being a nuisance, I will remind you that these killers have been armed and financed by these self same Americans, the killers were looking for in Mumbai. Should we say “these foreigners brought their fight and misery to our shores”?
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Bhamy V Shenoy
The headlines should have been the continuance of the Third World War by Jihadis.
This was started after 9/11 and went to UK, Bali, Spain, and in between India several times and continuously in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan.
It is high time every religiious group join hands and isolate this tiny miniscule terrorist jihadi group and do not try to think of some ridiculous excuse to rationalize their atrocious behaviour. It is no brainer that islam should take the lead in this world war III.
UN should call an urgent meeting and give a call to isolate these jihadi elements.
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Pulikeshi the Last
Stop religionising terror. Characerising terrorism as Hindu or Muslim is nothing less than an invitation to perpetuate terror.
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Nitin
Its more sickening than ‘sickularists’ to see Durbuddis feeling happy to see ATS chief dying. Worry not, PM in waiting the grand old ‘Tagadu’ purush will have his dream fulfilled,so the current Hindu terrorists will be let off and even be rewarded while Hemath karakare would be forgotten .For now the least you can do keep your happiness to yourself.
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kannadiga:)
Hemant Karkare shot dead …..what a divine justice. I saw this guy preparing himself for the counter attack, he did not look very fit to go in and take on the terrorist, may be he was thinking they would be as easy as Sadhvi Pragya Thakur. To think this guy was also serving in the RAW sends chill down my spine. What sort of incompetent ass&^&( do we have in our intelligence establishment.
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southernbelle
the left “pseudo secular” bashing has begun.
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Doddi Buddi
I was able to see some video clips on the last minutes of ATS chief. A sense of defeat was writ on his face because when he was shown donning his helmet and Kevlar (?, not sure he really did wear one though!)he knew that his team had not got any clue of the whole terrorism plot as it transpired later. Well a desk Johnny can only be a desk Johnny! Giving press walahs some sound bites about the ‘imaginary’ terrorists is much easier right? He failed in his duty and I am sure he must have realized in the last microsecond of his existence how wrong he must have been wasting time chasing after the imaginary terrorists when the real ones were recceing Mumbai and preparing for the event,…
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Doddi Buddi
Here is a nice clip on suicide bombers by Billy Connolly. Watch and listen carefully!
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Doddi Buddi
There goes the brave Rabbit (as seen im Mumbai Mirror photo) with his gun and showing fearless attitude!
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Mysooruboyz
Its the sadhvi all right.
Hindu terror from Pakistan. The sight of our Pm bleating into the tv cameras was pathetic.
BTW Where is shivraj patil? Did he run out of clothes?
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nilesh
what can PM, HM, Advani, modi, do ?
It is we the common man who has to stand up, we should change our mentality, be prepared to sacrifice, we should keep ourselves fit and strong, and start thinking like the israelis.
The day may not be far away, when infosy are iscon are stormed. so better start getting ready.
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Chintamani Chintu
Manmohan’s speech lacked conviction. He did not induce any confidence on the distressed people. He should have come out strongly against terrorism. Being the PM of India he has a Huge Military at his command. He should have shown more spine. Unfortunately Manmohan is not cut out for his job. He should have stayed as the RBI governor or retired after his tenure in PVN’s government.
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dharma
There has been a terror attack in the Railway station and also Hotels around the Gateway of India. But all the Media coverage is from the place which is used by the rich and affluent and not a place used by the poor. Why this discrimination, they are also Humans!!
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June Gaur
While the entire nation looks to the Army for succour in yet another crisis, how many people know that Kargil Day, which also falls in November, has just gone by? Our most recent war and we have already forgotten the men who laid down their lives for us in our hour of direst need. Which of our TV channels or newspapers carried tributes to these brave soldiers, the real heroes of our country? Why do we not honour and immortalize them? Why do we fail to capitalize on these rare opportunities to take pride in our country and rise above the forces that are now working furiously to divide us?
Events are still unfolding in terror-hit Mumbai. When, God willing, the crisis is over, we will have the full picture – the debt of gratitude owed by so many to so few will become clear. But, a few years from now, will we see the same Kargil story, of forgetfulness and neglect, played out once more with respect to the sacrifices of the heroes of today?
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Vinay
Doddi Buddi:
Shame on you! Karkare paid with his life while trying to do his job, which is to fight terrorists, being head of the “ATS”. He did it so that rascals like you can continue living your lives in peace. The least you can do is to shut up.
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Vinay
Everyone who has interacted with Karkare is unanimous that the man was thoroughly professional, respected, with an excellent track record and thoroughly no-nonsense. People sit in Air Conditioned cubicles, usually outside India, and puke on the keyboard, without sparing a thought for the immense political pressure that organizations like the ATS work under.
To say that Karkare was ‘duffer.. busy giving press conferences.. instead of confronting ‘real’ terrorists..’ is the sign of a sick and perverted mind.
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Ravi
Palahalli
No use in getting abusive which is typically you when you lose arguments. You do not put any arguments except standing at the sides and sniping. That was exactly your Palahalli S I was referring to was doing.
Idiots like you do not get it. This is a blog in cyberspace and you do niot control the arguments. Again Typically Palahalli S. Any relation to him?
Develop and argument otherwise shut up.
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Vinay
Doddi Buddi is up to his usual self and is joined by the ‘Kannadiga:-)’. It sends a ‘chill down my spine’ to see that people like them are a produce of Karnataka, and India.
Karkare was the one who solved more then a few serial blasts in the past, and brought the prepertators to justice. The terrorists were all Muslims there, and the cowardly Doddi Buddi chooses to ignore that now.
This is what happens in India if one tries to be professional and unbiased while doing their duty. As long as double dealing scoundrels are alive, India cannot hope to have an efficient police force.
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Doddi Buddi
Impolite!
I would urge you to follow your hero Karkare’s example! I just spoke out what every right-thinking Indian would worry about an ATS chief who went to meet the terrorists just as he would go out in the rain wearing a rain coat. Unfortunately his incompetence did him in–no use calling him a hero unless in your dictionary heroes just get slaughtered like sheep!
Also Karkare seem to have interacted with desk Johnny’s like yourself and he probably thought he had some mystic power to dodge live bullets! So all hero, martyr, and other unbecoming qualities do not apply…
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Doddi Buddi
Nits!
Sorry to make you feel bad with my remarks on Kurkure! The man was obviously a cat’s paw of the State government uncovering a non-existent ‘Hindu’ terror plot. When faced with the real Jehadis the man sauntered out for a vada pav thinking he was safe from all harm feeling brave under a simple helmet and some bullet-proof dress. Sorry wrong again–Game Over! Incompetence is highly prized in the current system–I am sure ‘Tharadu Sattha’ Shivraj Patil and Kurkure were great pals…
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Doddi Buddi
June Gaur,
Exactly! A Nation that does not respect its martyrs is on its way out!
Friendsville,
I think you mean well but don’t forget we don’t just live in Hinduville! Therefore we have to understand things from a context.
Ravi,
I can very well believe your AK-47 incident! That duffer Rajeev tolerated ThiruKa for a long time and he became a Kurkure in the end :(
Ditto with Veerappa (n)–same story and only Jayalalitha showed everyone she wears ‘Mandya Cheddis’ under her gargantuan undergarments by going after poacher Thambichami Veerappan!Our own US-educated Somnalli Kitta was busy trying on a new wig during the Veerappan era!
Security personnel dying in the line of duty deserve respect. If Shri Karkare was a lesser man, he would not have been there. As far as lethargic body language is concerned, there was plenty of it on display even amongst our troops on site. It’s very churlish to get into such gossip. Least we forget, there are folks to talk like this about Shri MD Sharma too. Shri Karkare’s ATS – Malegaon related blunders may be disconnected from the situation of his death.
And murkh Ravi. Your only argument that you “developed” is to have foreigners blackmail an Indian government into “acting”. How are you any different from the johnnies who rush to the Vatican every time a Padre gets thrashed? How different are you from the John Dayals who lead delegations to Durban and to the US in order to “press” the Indian Govt on Dalit issues??
Have you so quickly forgotten that it was these self same foreigners who have consistently blocked any Indian action against Pakistan? Do you, in your immeasurable ignorance really think that an Obama or a Brown will stand by and watch India do an Israel on Pakistan? Hell! Pakistan is their ally!
Anybody reading you must think these foreign governments are raging and raving at us Indians for not bombing the shit out of Pakistan!
I must say affected foreign folk, to their credit, have shown more balls than you do here.
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Not A Witty Nick
Damn the politicisation of every sphere of public life.
Majority of those coastguards must have used lots of political influence or paid money to get posted there! Ditto about the police.
Vinay,
With much respect to the departed soul, he was just a pawn manipulated by politicians. Did we need so much drama in front of the camera?
They are simply multiplying the fanatics and the reasons they have given to repeatedly do narcoanalysis on Pragya is stupid(they said that she regularly practised pranayama so she is able to control her thoughts!) and she was subjected to it not once or twice but four times!
Where are our beloved human right activists? They cry foul for conducting narcoanalysis, measly once, on those militants!
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Vinay
Palahalli:
You have spoken very sensibly. Some immature buffoons cannot see the incidents of Malegaon and Mumbai separately. You put it very well: “If he were a lesser man, he would have not been there”. People sitting and spouting insane comments should be told to go take a walk.
Every serving and retired police officer is unanimous that Karkare was a top-notch officer. He has cracked cases in the past, which, by the way, were perpetrated by Muslim fundamentalists.
Reading the comments of one pompous ass here, who thinks it is extremely rib-tickling to translate all nicknames into English, one would think he is a security and counter-terrorism expert. Seriously, what do these people know? As if he knows the competence levels of each officer in the Maharashtra police by reading reports in the media. Fool!
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Doddi Buddi
Impolite,
I can understand your grief about your favorite hero. I hope you feel better by watching the tapes over and over again where your hero steps out gingerly into the open.
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Doddi Buddi
N-A-W-N,
Correctly observed! There you go Impolite. Get that into your humint input folder. Have a kurkure and chillax.
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Vinay
Not A Witty Nick:
I would like to make the point again, that he was much better than several other officers, in terms of capability, results and track record. He was among the country’s best. At this point of time, a simple google will tell you that he has contributed hugely to previous investigations and solved several terror cases which were the handiwork of SIMI and other islamic organizations.
What is going to happen now is, the Sadhu and Sadhvi will be remembered for eternity, whereas Karkare will be vilified, demonized, and abused.
And what ‘drama’ are you talking about?? The media is an ass, and will cover Rahul Gandhi pissing, or LK Advani farting, if they feel it increases their TRP rating. It is the media which runs behind all famous figures and tries their best to extract a misplaced comment here, a controversial statement there.. Just look at the way the media has been ‘covering’ this incident?
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Kumbhakarana
Yaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnn….
All these days our intelligence offiers were sleeping like me. Finally they woke up after those terrorists killed 125 people. Shivraj Patil mukha kooda thorsthaayilla. Peddh Munde MMSsu yen maadthilla. Yen gathi bantho. Devaru sattavara aatmakke shanthi kodali.
I found this gem on IE Readers Comments…
…”Deadly Mistake
by Vivek on 2008-11-27 20:01:39.674446+05:30
I am sorry to say this about a deceased officer. In my opinion, Mr Karkare had the responsibility to protect himself and his senior staff from these two-bit terrorists by staying out of harm’s way. It is very demoralizing to the rank and file of ATS when the senior leadership is wiped out in the first few minutes of the battle. In chess, it is like sacrificing your queen to a pawn in the third move of the game. Indian security agencies cannot let this happen….”
Well that is why we are concerned that the same officer who was injecting truth serum into all and sun dry was probably living in a fantasy land. And to think that the same officer solved serial blasts case somewhere is hard to believe.
Doddi Buddi – I don’t see a context that justifies making fun of a man who was killed by Islamic murderers.
But your post made me think about something related. We are a casual people. Like I said before, our troop body language, with rare exceptions, was not at all inspiring. Not like what you would see on parade. Lethargic and lazy….not quick…and not crisp. When I watched them coming on site, I noticed no urgency. There must be Turn Around Times for troop dispositions (?)
I think our overly “emotional” trait comes through in all we do.
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kannadiga:)
Vinay,
Before spewing venom on me and DB just think about this. Karkare was a top notch officer of the ATS who had loads of experience behind him. With that kind of experience he should be sitting in a central command post and rallying his men against the terrorists instead of rushing like a fool to take on the terrorist himself wearing a shoddy helmet and a bullet proof armour which looked more like a apron to me. And how did he die, he was shot down by 2 terrorists hiding in a bush who opened fire on the vehicle he was travelling with 2 of his officers. That shows he had poor judgement and understanding of the terrorists he wanted to fight.
You see there is a difference between fighting a terrorist who is willing to die for a cause and taking a casual walk on the chaupati beach with your wife to eat vada/pav. Hope Karkare knew the difference, but apparently he did not and so he paid with his life.
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Vinay
Doddi Cheddi:
If you find it ‘hard to believe’ that an officer solved serial blasts somewhere, you can stick it up… Nobody gives a rat’s ass about what the great gasbag ‘Doddi Buddi’ thinks anyway. You are the very definition of ‘armchair expert’.
Had you been in Karkare’s position, I can appreciate that you would probably sequester yourself in a bank’s safe deposit locker, with a mobile phone and an empty 2-litre bisleri bottle (for obvious necessities).
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Hiker
Doddi Buddi,
Whatever it is..lets say Karkare was a fool to have gone to fight the terrorists himself without proper gear, but he did fight against them. He did not lock himself up in his house like politicians. He fought. He sacrificed his life to protect Mumbai. Till NSG and army arrived it was basically the job of ATS and Mumbai police to handle the situation and they did it. Success or failure does not matter. Kudos to them.
If you read about India China war of 1962, Indian jawans did not have proper clothing or modern protective gear to fight the Chinese. But they did fight to protect their motherland and sacrificed their life. Do you also call them duffers?
I read this below piece and got goose bumps. Lets salute all those who sacrificed their life and their families.
ATS is not equipped to fight the terrorists hand to hand. It is the job of the NSG and Army commandos. ATS is good for doing a post mortem investigation of things that already took place. There is no incidence of ATS prempting any terrorist attack so far and stopping it. There is a difference between encounter of a terrorist who is unprepared for the encounter and a terrorist who is fully prepared for any eventuality. ATS may be good in the former and is no good in the latter situation.
For christs sake stop deifying these people. It is like saying all the people who died in 9/11 were heroes. They were not. They all died because they were in WTC that day because their days work brought them there. If they knew there would be a attack on 9/11, I am sure none of them would have turned up for work on that day. So dont go overboard about Hemant Karkare. I agree it was a loss and I regret it. Anything more than that is simply hogwash.
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Faldo
@DB, nice point.
On the same note what were MMS and the entire who’s who of the UPA doing in the area even while combing operations were going on? As if the security forces did not have more important things to worry about, than guarding these folks. What if some of these worthies were targetted? Who would be to blame then?
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Hiker
Palahalli,
Please…let us not point fingers at our troops. They are the real heroes. It is easy for us arm chair pundits to look at the idiot box and say that they looked lazy, lethargic etc. Our forces are professional to the core and they are one of the best in the world.
Our forces are doing an awesome job in Mumbai. NSG is a world class counter terrorism unit. Remember even an average call center driver makes more money than our Jawans.
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larissa
Hindus are really passive. Imagine the reaction of any other country in which this kind of thing were to happen….
Most likely these terrorists had networks in India. Otherwise they would not have been so brazen. Which is why Indian PM is wrong to emphasize that it was the work of foreigners. It was the work of foreigners who have domestic networks to further their agends–networks about which the Indian government chooses to look the other way…People say most people who commit such acts are poor. No they are not. Most terrorists are educated and have a well planned agenda….
First of all, HIndus are very passive. I can only imagine the reaction if this kind of thing were to happen in Russia or China or even the U.S.A.
Furthermore, the Indian PM is wrong to emphasize that this was the work of foreigners–this was the work of foreigners who have domestic networks to carry out their agendas. If these people did not have domestic support or networks they would not have been so brazen. Why emphasize the “foreign” element, and not admit that the government has consistently ignored the safety of its people?
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Bala
As I write our commandos are trying to rescue the people trapped in Taj, Oberoi and Nariman house, the whole of India is weeping for the loss and cheering our commandos, our PM is talking to our neighbors, our politicians (left, right and centre) are united against terrorism.
What do these terrorists want? This is not going to break our spirit. We will stand united against you. You will never succeed.
Come on India, this is time to be united and stand up against these sinister elements.
I plead GOI to take a decisive steps to prevent terrorism. I know it is a global issue and our country is a complex, let us all work together to eradicate this menace. Tell us what do you want from ordinary citizen like me. We do not have lack of funds. Please tax me more but show me more accountability. Do you want many of us to join you to fighting this? Please show us the opportunity.
“Whenever there is decay
of righteousness O! Bharatha
And a rise of unrighteousness
then I manifest Myself!”
Krishna, we need you to fight these terrorists
Jai Hind
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Bala
Ravi and other, Can we stop this non-sense. The more we fight among ourselves these terrorists will prosper.
Kannadiga-Tamil, Maharastrian and non maharastrian, Naxalites, North-south, Hindi speaking and Non-Hindi speaking, Harijans and non harijans ..
Oh my God, how many reasons to fight among ourselves.
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Avva Madesa
Folks,
this to me is the start of actualisation of Huntingtons postulates in india. between Infidels like me and jihadists ala vinay(WTF, venom spewer calls himself vinay! LOL)
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prajwal
hmmm…me finds it very very interesting that ppl who have no idea of what police duties are nor have served in the army are commenting on whether an officer who was killed in anti terror operations was worthy or unworthy of his post….
doddi buddi and company:
Pray tell, how would you decide who is worthy or not worthy of a post…and yes, i would be very grateful if u tell me what records of the late Karkare u have considered before deeming him unfit for his job? You pieces of S**T have been commenting on what the media reports about a person or on the amount of media appearances a person makes and without any reference to his work .
(DO NOT GO ON AND ON ABOUT THE WHOLE BULLETPROOF VEST THING….APPARENTLY YOU GUYS HAVE NEVER ADORNED A BULLET PROOF VEST FOR OUR COUNTRY; ALSO IT WOULD DO U A GREAT DEAL OF GOOD IF U BOTHERED TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT ARMOUR PIERCING AMMO(u can look it up in quite a few of the of the million discovery channel episodes or for that matter in your fav source, wikipedia)).
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Bhavani
@Holasu buddi
Shove some kurkure up yours..
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prajwal
oh yeah…@everyone condemning the intelligence agencies and the security agencies
ITS BLOODY FOOLISH of us to think that a group of a few thousand men can protect every single person in a 1.1+ billion member populace.Especially when the opponents number also in thousands.
Its also outright dumb to think that only our security forces have men capable of carrying out what they are trained to do.I mean there is enough evidence to show that even terrorists train and plan to execute and unleash terror. SO how DARE we assume that they are inferior to our security forces? A terrorist might be equally good/better/worse than our commandos or army soldiers or cops at carryin out his/her mission. So it is stupid to say our SECURITY SERVICES FAILED when citzens get killed. Any sort of war, civil war, urban war or open orthodox declared war is a game of planning and thoughts, jus that the price is life of ppl. You win some and you lose some. This cannot be the judge of whether an organisation is functioning to its efficiency or not! By that logic, terrorist cells have to be deemed inefficient cos the number of times they have been foiled is more than the number of times they have been successful!
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prajwal
@DB
ever heard/ read the treatises on war? the foremost of the requirements of a good officer being he commands from the front when able and not from the behind. Its easy to let someone else take a bullet shot for you, isn’t it?
Ac to u all our officers should react
“oh, im officer, i ll let a non officer take a bullet by sending him up front.My life is more worthy than his”
Sheesh….grow a spine dude!
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tarlesubba
not the time DB.
there were people standing outside and cheering the commandos learn from them. know who your first line of defense are. despite all the aspersions cast by the intelligencia, people like karkare,kamte, solaskar, gajendar singh, unnikrishnan stood up for all it matters and paid the ultimate price for a country that ZERO gratitude for them. remember, they were facing unscrupulous barbarians. who the fukk attacks a hospital?
think about it. how idealistic should people like unnikrishnan be. people like gajendra singh put their lives in line for fat cat intelligencia to engage in idealogical, intellectual masturbation.
taayi bharati udho!
bharata matege jayavagali.
bharat mata ki jai!
as i said, anybody who tries to rationalize this should have his head “probed”. barkha dutt and morons at NDTV making a serious case of their insanity.
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babuds
@palahalli
What kind of body language you expect from the people (read army jawans) who are paid a penny and half to give their life for you? They are not even sure whether the government will look after their families after their worldly departure?
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Karihaida
All this discussion about politics and terrorism is pointless. Its going to happen irrespective of who is in power, given the security infrastructure that we have.
Just look at the average policeman we have on the street. His job is the first line of defense, but do you think he has the motivation to do the job when it really matters, with his 5K salary, lathi and a .303 rifle? No wonder it was reported that a pandey cried and ran away from one of the hotels saying that his rifle can fire only bullet while trying to protect a couple of hostages. And the people higher up the police chain are more interested in furthering their political carrers than bothering about terrorist activities. The less said about ‘intelligence’ agencies, the better.
These things are not going change any time soon.
Its time we start to take care of ourselves, instead of bitching about gov’t, if you really want to protect yourself. Invest in weapons if you can, at the very least carry a swiss knife always. Do some research about how to get out of such situations. Read about crude bombs, IEDs and how you can spot them and defuse them if you have to. Get physically fit.
PS: The state gov’t announced holiday yesterday because the duffer VP Singh died (the gov’t should try to get back all the money spent on trying to keep him alive) and not because of the terrorist attacks. Do you still want to believe that the gov’t will save your sorry ass from being blown up?
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Ravi
Palahalli,
I am not disappointed by your conjectures and ignorance. You need to learn a bit more. No use in mindless ranting accusing ‘foreigners’ as Singh does, having let down the country and people. The problem lies with Indian leaders.
Pakistan could have been crushed anytime after 1947. Like Greek and Turkey partition, when they exchaged Turks and Greeks, muslims in India and Hindus in Pakistan could have been exchanged, but for Nehru. Nehru was a coward, every time skirmishes big and small occurred in Indo-pakistan border, instead of attacking Pakistan militarily he ran to UN. In early 1950s there was not much support for Pakistan anywhere. Indeed Kashmir could have been taken in 1950s if Nehru had not ordered cease fire and ran to UN again. He wanted his crypto-communist friend VKK Menon to talk in that talkshop called UN.
Time is of the essence, ignoramus. Pity you blame every foreign leader except Indian leaders. They for dragged Kashmir and Pakistan problems for decades. You talk about israel now. At one time Israel was an enemy to India and that corrupt guy who wore tea towel on his head, Arafat was a friend of India. India did not like Israel creation. Read what Gandhi said. In my secondary school and college days in 1950s, we were not allowed to mention Israel without using the term palestinian territory. Israel was recognised only recently. Indian govt always liked to lick palestinian and Arab’s shoes who supported Pakistan always. That is information for you. Grow upa bit, read a bit and then come back.
If you drag problems into 1960s, 70s and 80s and so on, problems become complicated. Same case with terrorists. China does not care for any foreign powers and does what is good for its survival. Why not India? Because it is mired in corruption and Indira Gandhi dynastical power smoke screen. who looks like stupid now? you , palahalli. It is worth if you dig out what Palahalli S, the corrupt MLA and minister did in 1950s and 60s. He used to argue like you. Any relation to him?
When the dust is settled, you will learn that these terrorists were able to operate in Bomaby willy-nilly supported by Muslim finaciers of Bollywood and some even muslim Bollywood actors. Just How they were able to
bring in artilleries of such magnitude without being noticed? India doing like Israel. No way. They could not free hostages without them being killed. Where else in the world an anti-terrorist chief gets killed at the beginning of a siege.
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krishna
here goes our toilet times of india again god save us from these vile media.
9 million readers turn to TOI for Mumbai attack news
I too believe that he was amongst our best men! Just imagine the political pressure on him? How can any person with so much responsibility manage politicians’ fancies concurrently with his job?
Be it in Batla House or in CST/Cama hospital, there were serious errors in their judgmental skills and we lost such skillful and brave officers because of it!
The drama was not the usual TRP boosting antics of the media, it was like conducting investigation, analysing and corroborating evidence and finally conducting a trial live on TV!
This is plain evil whether it is Sadhvi and co. or any other alleged criminal is involved.
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Doddi Buddi
TS,
I agree and I am willing to sign a truce. This Karkare fellow was incompetent’ Let’s agree on that. I am as bit a sensitive soul as the next man but simply glorifying some ass who ran out into the street randomly is unworthy of the high office he deemed to represent. If this was his leadership then it is a relief to note that he became a quick statistic during the need of the hour!
When he was pumping truth serum into Pragya Thakur and Purohit none of the seculars cared a fig about their human rights? This duffer forgot that his job was to focus on terrorism–not on some abba dabba theories about Hindutva terror!!
Let this duffer’s soul rest in peace giving press conferences in the nether world on what he did or didn’t or was going to do…
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Pala
Hiker & Babuds – Guys, please don’t get me wrong. I have the greatest respect for our forces. Moreover, any man going into battle with full knowledge that he could get killed is a Hero to me.
It was my observation. I suppose making it now was bad timing.
And Ravi, it seems you’re “developing” your argument all over the place much like our real estate guys :)
I don’t wish to be patient with an arrogant bum like you so I’ll be brief.
I detest the manner you go about wishing foreigners arm-twist our government into doing things. It’s called being a quisling.
There are some rules Nationalists live by and one of them is we DO NOT use foreign influence to gain domestic advantage. We help ourselves. I’m surprised at you. You seem old enough to know these things.
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Vinay
Kanandiga:) :
Again, you know zilch about bullet proof armor and bullet proof vests. Armchair experts had better shove some kurkure up their ..
No one knew about what we were up against, till very late in the night. People assumed that it was a druglord war or something similar. No one could have imagined this kind of thing, because it is unprecedented. We are not at war after all.
All we can talk about in our post mortem is the cliched ‘Intelligence Failure’. If it is proved beyond doubt that this thing originated across the border, the RAW and IB will have to answer some hard questions.
In this context, you come across as a great dumbass.
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Vinay
Prajwal:
Very well said. The smelly cheddi really needs to grow a spine. I thank the good lord that he’s not part of our defence or intelligence apparatus.
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Vinay
“Willing to sign a truce..”
Seriously, who does this gasbag think he is? Self-important nincompoop!
Our police have equipment which does not even function properly. The ATS has only marginally better equipment. The bulletproof vest that Karkare had was OK to stop bullets from a revolver or a handgun, certainly not automatic machine gun fire. No one knew what they were up against till late in the night. If people hijack ships and land on the coast with commando-class weapons, the police is completely helpless.
Seriously, in times on national crisis, a gag order needs to be placed on such self-glorifying, holier-than-thou asses.
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Vinay
Avva Madesa:
Do you know what ‘Jehadi’ means? You do not seem to be illiterate, since you type reams and reams of gas almost endlessly in English. Maybe you’re just screamin’ mad (maniacal)? Could be.
What is certain is that if a real national crisis were to occur, people like you, Doddi Buddi, Kannadiga:), and some others will have to have gag orders imposed on yourselves. You guys will learn only if you have bombs being dropped from the sky, and gunfire on the streets (i.e., war).
Till then, it is extremely tough to stop you people from passing ‘expert comments’ on military and police operations from an arm chair. It is bloody sad that people cannot stop finger pointing and blame game(s) even for 24 hours when the need is to shut the fcuk up. Mtoher Fcukres.
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Vinay
And whats more, anyone who shouts out to stop bickering and fighting at this time, and who reprimands people for maligning a police offier who was doing his duty, is branded a ‘Jihadi’. Never mind if the person is a Hindu ‘Brahmin’ who wants people to stop immature nonsense during national crisis, he is still a ‘Jehadi’ for scum like Avva Madesa.
Politicians come from the public, so I wonder now, how justified we are in hating politicians – after all, they are a breed which has sprouted out of the ‘Public’ which, by the way, also comprises people like Doddi Buddi and Avva Madesa. If ‘educated’ people cannot shut up and stand behind security agencies to at least put up a show of unity, forget about the politicians.
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Doddi Buddi
Just read the eye witness account in IE on how Karkare and his colleagues were killed. It appears our ATS chief sitting a la ‘utsav murti’ style in the vehicle and the terrorists simpley shot these guys like pigeons. Mighty bad luck or what!
I knew that Impolite was a moron but he is also an imbecile going by his latest gem: ..”No one knew about what we were up against, till very late in the night. People assumed that it was a druglord war or something similar. No one could have imagined this kind of thing, because it is unprecedented. We are not at war after all. All we can talk about in our post mortem is the cliched ‘Intelligence Failure’. If it is proved beyond doubt that this thing originated across the border, the RAW and IB will have to answer some hard questions…”
May be Karkare thought these were some gangland low-lifes shooting at each other?
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Vinay
Doddi Buddi:
What’s the ‘imbecile’ thing you found there? What do you think you are, some intelligence and terrorism expert? You want to give advice to everyone on how to do their job.
This is the problem you see, when a big-fart gets a chance to see media coverage of any high-intensity thing, he cannot stop himself from doling advice like: “Oh, he should have done it this way”, “Oh, why did he go there like that, why didn’t he do that..” You see, every orifice of their body begins itching to provide the world their unsolicited, uncalled-for expertise.
I wouldn’t blame the police or ATS for underestimating what they were up against. They are not in charge of satellite and humint surveillance on neighbouring countries.
Gasbags like you really cannot understand. Like I said before, had you been in Karkare’s position, you’d have sequestered yourself in the safe deposit locker of SBI, with nothing more than a cell phone and an empty 2-litre bisleri bottle (guess why?) for company.
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bari olu
muchappa saaku vinaya. I think there are some valid points that Kannadiga n DB have made. If u followed the malegaon investigations it was clear that ATS wanted to hook up Sadhvi and Purohit to all the unrelated cases like the Samjhauta express blasts. You should have watched karkares press briefings it used to be so lacklustre, like our own PM. We have laptops of the guru, which might hold some information. What crap, come out to media if u have some solid information. Do you need 4 narco analysis tests done on a person.
Where were ill-concieted ppl like u when sadhvi was injected the truth serum 4 times. All these definitely raises doubts . But we probably wont get the answer because Karkare is dead.
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Pala
My position is held – Shri Karkare is a martyr in this fight. He went in willingly when he could have chosen to “study & direct” from afar. I see Doddi Buddi’s point that we cannot afford to lose senior officers so early in battle when their teams need direction…but when such shit happens, you try not to impale the man. Remember Kargil, when one read reports of losing high numbers of Officers too soon.
His ATS – Malegaon actions need to be discussed in a separate light. There will be time for that.
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Doddi Buddi
Impolite,
The Indian School of Imbeciles & Morons (ISIM) just lost its brightest student in Karkare. So you have to contact the headmaster PM for the school’s syllabus. You seem to be a methodical type. So you simply have to wait for some time to absorb the latest developments in the case. Till then you should busy yourself with …”No one knew about what we were up against, till very late in the night. People assumed that it was a druglord war or something similar. No one could have imagined this kind of thing, because it is unprecedented….” Yeah simple minds cannot get their minds around this you see…
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Vinay
bari olu:
It pisses me off when people like you ask questions like: “Where were you when x happened, where were you when y happened…” and so on. It is the sign of an underdeveloped brain that does not realize how to stick to the point being discussed, and take up a given discussion on its individual merit.
If this was tough for you to understand, read “Pala”‘s comment above, he has articulated it well.
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Sandesh
@babuds
“What kind of body language you expect from the people (read army jawans) who are paid a penny and half to give their life for you? They are not even sure whether the government will look after their families after their worldly departure?”
Very true.. The least the bloody govt can do is to raise the pay of armed forces, punish the terrorists caught by them (via setting up fast track courts and implementing court orders) and make it clear that their families will be looked after in case they sacrifice their lives on duty.
Until our dimwit politicians make it clear that they give UTMOST respect (not in flowery language..in deeds) to armed forces (including police and others….) we cannot expect them to give a 100% to their duty..although our brave officers do give more than a 100%.
Regarding Hemant karkare.. I too initially thought it “divine justice”. But it was a silly moment which passed away as soon the casualties mounted up and I was aware of the scale of tragedy. I regret that moment now and salute every one who died in rescuing innocent lives.
At the same time, the folks at NDTV and CNN-IBN should be dragged out of their AC studios and beaten to death. They were trying to make it a political issue along with imbeciles like moily and others. Shame on media…Why don’t some terrorists blow up the media houses?
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Sandesh
Vinay
Your sentiments are right but your language and obvious disdain for BJP and co make it difficult to read your comments. Please tone down your language so I can read your comments… you do make wonderful comments (I’m serious).
DB, Kannadiga:) and others. We’ll discuss ATS and Sadhvi issue a few days later ?
I feel importance should not be given to the following people and their opinions in future.
a. Shabana and her husband
b. Mahesha bhatt and brothers
b. Arundhati roy and teesta peesta
c. NDTV and CNN IBN heads
d. Laloo, left and other secular parties
e. PM of India!!!!!!!!!!!!
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bari olu
Vinay,
Accepted you are the most intelligent guy!! :P Why shud it piss u off if such a question is asked. I just asked whats ur take on ATS trying to frame Hindus in other cases which are in no way related to Malegoan blasts and when they were caught they withdrew the charges.
I have utmost respect for any police officer who lost his life fighting. I am also not justifying his death either like DB as a divine cause-effect phenomenon. I am saying he probably might not deserve as much adulation. There are thousands of other heroes who have died continuously and no one talks of them.
You are acting in a juvenile manner shouting at everyone; without even trying to understand what the other person has to say.
@ Pala
How can u disassociate some one from his past? Tomorrow Mr. Lallu jadav or his right hand hench-man shahabuddin dies in a terrorist attack. Will u make these people martyrs??
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Vinay
Sandesh:
Actually I do not have disdain for the BJP and co only, but for all parties. Believe me, I vote for the individual, and not the party. This is because I feel that all parties are equally pathetic. There is a school of thought that BJP will bring about a change in the Indian state’s way of reacting to terrorists, we’ll be a tough state, they will end minority appeasement, introduce uniform civil code, and so on. I am damn sure the BJP will do no such thing. They are as much into politicization as anyone else.
This is why I vote for the individual, and not the party, and I do not really hate only the BJP/Parivar.
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Palahalli
bari olu – I don’t know who is a Martyr in your opinion, but to me a Martyr is a person who is killed while on his mission, BECAUSE OF, his mission. Shri Karkare was not a passerby. He was not a reporter or a media person who’s getting killed in such zones is always inadvertent unless of course killers make it a point to kill these press people. He went there with the intention to fight. In all probability, he also knew he could die that day.
Coming to Lalu, would you not have respect for that man if he had armed himself and led an attack party, and in the process get killed? Heck you would retain that respect for him even if he survived. The point is this; we only hope that folks like Lalu act like heroes. Why withhold respect from an actual Hero?
I honestly don’t know who or how else one can become a Martyr.
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Vinay
bari olu:
“Thousands of heroes have died elsewhere and no one talks much about them.” That’s expected, isn’t it – this whole thing is so unprecedented – the media has not covered something of this scale for years now
What is my take on this or that is unimportant. There are people I can see on this forum who really, seriously think they know a lot and are highly qualified to pass expert comments on every damn topic. Such crap should be put down immediately, and gagged as soon as possible.
Many Indians define ‘freedom’ in a very unique fashion. For example, “India is a free country, I will piss on the road, right here, you cannot stop me from doing so”. This is just one more example of something similar. Far too much freedom has been given, which we are not mature or capable enough to deserve yet.
Several people who are demanding a tough-state policy for terrorism will be dismayed if it is actually done, because they do not know what it actually implies.
The media (liberal bunch), which is advocating “Tougher policies, even at the cost of a few individual freedoms” will be the first to weep, since they will have gag orders placed on them at once. Certain people on this forum (the hawks) will be the next to weep, since it might well become terribly dangerous to make comments like they have, in public in times like these.
Your martyr question has been answered by Palahalli and I second him. Tomorrow if Arjun Singh and Shivraj Patil carry AK-47s and conduct a flash raid on a terrorist hideout and come back, I will salute them as heroes. Not if they die in a landmine explosion. Again, the point is, most people don’t fully understand the implications of things, and comment just for the sake of commenting.
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Ravi
Palahalli or Pala or whatever
You sound as ineffectual as the PM Singh and his home minister. You
sound so hollow. no use in commenting on what you say.
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anonymus
Ree.. Vinay, pls keep quite,our doddi bddi is emerging as a top class intelectual in this blog, do not dare to qestion him. DB continue to enlight us with your wisdom.
your coments also made me think about past. so many coward police & officers lost their life in trying to nab petty bandit veerappan & people who died mainly becoz of their inefficiency were handsomly awarded by then cong/jd govt, we never realized what a waste of money it was!!. DB you should have born & grew up little early. Anyway our yeddy is the cheif now, yo shold atleast get Rajyothsava or karnataka ratna award.
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Ravi
NY TIMES says:
“..there were clear signs emerging on Saturday that the security forces were ill-prepared to handle the crisis. Much of that was because of systemic problems, interviews with officials showed. There is little information-sharing among law enforcement agencies. Ill-paid city police are often armed with little more than batons. Even the elite commandos heading the charge against the gunmen this week were slowed by old, bulky bulletproof jackets and had no technology at their disposal to determine where the firepower was coming from inside the sprawling hotels.
Sharpshooters had neither protective gear, nor the high-powered telescopes that their counterparts in Western countries would likely use in a standoff with terrorists. On Saturday afternoon, a sharpshooter who had spent over 60 hours perched outside the Taj hotel said neither he nor his partner had fired a single shot because they were not sure how to distinguish the gunmen from ordinary civilians trapped inside the hotel..”
The Times in London reports:
“A spokesman for the Taj did not comment on the enquiries being made into the hotel’s guests but did say that the authorities had not made any moves to investigate its staff. It has been suggested in the Indian media that some of the terrorists had taken jobs at the Taj to reconnoitre the building.”..
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Sam
Shivraj/RR Patils Amar Rahe..
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prajwal
@bari olu, doddi buddi and the rest who think Karakare was a moron,
I would be honestly grateful if you could be so kind enough as to tell where you get your ideas about miltary operations, from HOLLYWOOD Movies like rock, delta force, black hawk down et al
OR
from second hand bollywood flicks of these movies like asambhav et.al. I am guessing your expertise in Police operations comes from movies like “shootout at lokhandwala” and “company” and “D” and stuff.
Please DO NOT COMMENT on basis of the media reports. Its disturbing to know how we all agree and accept that media today will do anything for TRP ratings and the politicians will do anything for the vote bank. BUT YET, our media is impeccable and will deliver complete unadulterated information when it comes to slandering govt institutions and security agencies, right?
What nonsense dude!! Dude, about the eye witness report, we have no assurance/idea of what the eye witness said because what the media reported was not verbatim. We have no idea of how close to the actrion zone this “eye witness” was! Curiosity question, if this eye witness was from within the zone, how did he escape and why the hell did he not go and give info to Mr. Karkare himself instead of going to our “REPORTERS” and media.
Again about the media reporting,we have all seen instances where teh media has reported 2 sentences from diff parts of an address, added their own interpretation to it and then published the same as controversial topics. Who made you the authority to say they didn’t do it in this case?
And about the ATS chief running out on the street, i presume you and your media buddies were patient enough to see what weapons she was shot with. For all you know he could have been taken out upon arrival at the site with a sniping rifle! Do you know that sniping rifles today have a range of upto more than a mile(more than 1.5 kms away)! The fact that he was the chief of the ATS makes him a prime target in urban warfare, doesn’t make him an imbecile!
I say again, DO NOT COMMENT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE IN A COMBAT ZONE; ESPECIALLY ON BASIS OF WHAT “THE MEDIA” REPORTS! ITS IRRESPONSIBLE ON YOUR PART! OR AT LEAST THINK FROM ALL ANGLES (of ur viewpoint at least) BEFORE YOU COMMENT.
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prajwal
and who told u that the security agencies have to release all the info they have to the media,
if they did release all info about all their ops and equipment and strategy to the media, the media n half witted n half knowledgable ppl like urself will blabber it all over the internet n airwaves n thanks to ppl like u our officers will get killed at home itself.
@bari olu
i dont care whether you justify/respect/not respect the martyred officer because he is already gone. But the point being how could u be so naive to question the worthiness of a highly decorated officer and his appointment based on MEDIA REPORTS and on second hand reports of somethin said by a so called eyewitness.
(i say second hand reports cos u did not talk to this person urself, some one in the press told u they did and u believed them. And so called eye witness because u dont know how close he was to the action,i can sit on a high tower about 4 building away, put up a binoculars/telescope and watch it and i d also be an eyewitness. in that case would u accept what i had to comment about ppl who were actually at the site or would you prefer to hear someone who was in the Taj for eg. being right in the middle of the whole incident. As far as i know non of the commandos/the ex hostages have said anything about the the details of the whole operation. But already we are questioning if someone who was killed was worthy of a high appointment or not! this is BLOODY IRRESPONSIBLE!)
Ravi – In polite language, what you just did is called a “cop-out”. In your case, a shameless cop-out.
Never be a traitor to your people again.
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bari olu
Prajwala bhoopa,
Kumaar yenayya ninna problemmu. I trust IE more than any other media house. IE has a good history of reporting facts correct.Dude i am not omnipresent nor you to keep track of each and every individual in this country. I just said karkare shouldnt have died in such a way. And look at the news flashing, karkare had information on attack and he asked all the 5-star hotels to beef up their private security. What bull shit? The government doesnt have forces to deploy at 5-star hotels as a precautionary measure when they had the information??
and i am sure you are also commenting based on media reporting . Please dont say u have seen karkare every second of ur life. I dunno how u are getting “first hand information” and from where?? Either u must a GOD urself or u are also one of those bull-shitters like arundati roy, karat, sagarika ghose. The juvenile comments u make surely suggest u are the latter. Adeno heltaaralla iddidanna idda haage helidre yedeg band odrante anta. Grow up.
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Ravi
Palahalli
You sound such an imbecile and you are the traitor for supporting a govt which literally killed hundeds of people. Go man, bury your head in muck.
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Ravi
Palahalli,
Again reaing you prattle which sounds like a malfunction of the cerebral cells, I suggest changing your medication or seeing another specialist.
The fall out is so serious that ineffectual Ptil and his minion have resigned. Even too much for Sonia who was familiar with the bloodletting by men in black suits carying violin cases in her native Turin.
but at the same time question the need for 3 top police officials to be seated in one vehicle if the media reports are true . End of the day the police in any state is most ill prepared to tackle such attacks and there is an immediate need to reform then retrain them and give them more sophisticated weapons.
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Vinay
bari olu:
Again, you have made a comment without a proper understanding, and without giving proper thought. “The government doesnt have forces to deploy at 5-star hotels as a precautionary measure when they had the information?? “
Which 5-star hotels would need to be covered? Only these three, or the JW Marriot also? What about Juhu Centaur, Tulip Star, …..?
And how long do you cover these locations? 1 day? 2 days? Throughout the year?
OK, we’ve covered all these 5-star hotels completely. Now what about CST station? Leopold Hotel? All the other potential targets? And what if the information was inaccurate, the target was to be a temple instead of hotels?
NO, THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE ADEQUATE FORCES TO DEPLOY. NO, IT DOES NOT.
Of course, we do have adequate forces if you bring the army, NSG, RAF, CRPF, RPF, BSF, etc. etc. into all cities and patrol the entire city round the clock. Guess what that’s called? A police state.
Police reforms, police training, police modernization, freedom from political interference for the police, improvement of the police image among citizens – that is what we need. Also, a dedicated agency to handle, not only terror, but also certain other crimes like Narcotics. An agency with multiple locations spread across the country. And with good infrastructure (e.g. their own aeroplane..)..
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Palahalli
Ravi – It seems you cannot comprehend the difference between Indians acting for themselves and “Indians” calling in foreigners for help against fellow Indians; the latter of which is what you so openly suggest we do.
Enough said!
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kannadiga:)
Vinay
>> Again, you know zilch about bullet proof armor and bullet proof vests. Armchair experts had better shove some kurkure up their ..
No one knew about what we were up against, till very late in the night. People assumed that it was a druglord war or something similar. No one could have imagined this kind of thing, because it is unprecedented. We are not at war after all. >>All we can talk about in our post mortem is the cliched ‘Intelligence Failure’. If it is proved beyond doubt that this thing originated across the border, the RAW and IB will have to answer some hard questions.
>>
You seem to compensate your lack of comprehension and understanding with abusive language. This is what exactly I refered to in my response to you in my earlier post. Karakare rushed in without assessing the situation and getting proper information on the attackers. He not only died but also got killed two of his valuable coleagues. Imagination is not what these agencies are paid for, they are paid for taking corrective steps based on previous experiences and incidents. The terrorists were holed up in Taj for months and the ATS did not get a whiff of it. That speaks volumes about the ATS and its capability. Also, the vest he was wearing was enough for protection against small arms fire like revolvers and pistols but not against automatic weapons, the sounds of which could be heard by anyone standing outside the Taj hotel. You do not need be an expert to put 2 & 2 together to deduce that the vest Karakare was wearing was insufficient to protect against AK47s and automatic rifles that were being fired. But gasbags like you do not understand simple things and compensate this by by using abusive langauge on this board.
For one last time, try to moderate your language when you respond to my posts, if you cannot do that dont bother to respond. I am not interested in reading your abusive langauge which reflects on your poor upbringing and culture which I have no interest in knowing.
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Doddi Buddi
Nice to see Shivraj Patil go. I cannot see how that duffer Narayanan can continue as NSA? May be he is ‘No Strings Attached’ advisor?!!
After the encounter death of Karkare, it was only a matter of time. We need real practical men leading orgs like ATS; no more desk Jockeys please! Karkare had reduced ATS to ‘Aunty Terrorist Squad’ by doing Mada’s bidding thru Patil and going after Hindu groups. Finally he paid with his life by ‘misunderestimating’ the ‘real’ terrorists. Also, I get a sneaking feeling that all these ministers (Arjun, Shivraj, others) and police (Karkare) were buying up some ‘minority community’ insurance by explicitly not going after them!
I havent commented on Mr.karkare or his duties on basis of news media anywhere. In fact i havent commented about how he worked or died. All i have said is dont look at news media and then say whether he was worthy of his posting or not, cos u dont know him. neither do i know him neither have i first hand info n hence I AM NOT PASSING an opinion of whether or not he was worthy of being ATS chief unlike urself and ur ilk. Also, again u r sayin that the news media said Karkare had prior info about these attacks .If he did and if the news media have this info let them publish this proof and then we will see.
Oh, BTW if u are interested, the first and foremost rule of Press reporting/journalism is that you are supposed to report just the news as is without adding your own interpretation/masala to it. And if you pay heed to news on TV/radio/newspapers, none of them follow this rule. They all add their own interpretations and hence their reports are incredible(in the sense that they cannot be trusted)! If u do not believe me, take 1 particular topic of ur interest, read about it in diff news sources, and then lets discuss cos i can assure u that u will find a dozen diff interpretations of the same point in diff sources!
Bariyode idre naanu media report odi comment maadirodu elli antha daya maadi torisi, naanu nanna tappannu tidkolluttene.
Vinay,
Its better to take precautions than be sorry. You know that the terrorists have AK47’s and do you even know that the private security agencies cannot carry such kind of a weapons. Why do u think america has been able to ward off terror attacks, at the slighest hint they go and take all precautionary measures.
There is something known as intelligence wing which had clearly indicated activities of terrorists. Its better to deploy forces rather be sorry and its far better to deploy forces for a few days than wasting time in trying to create false cases under political pressure.
If the info is inaccurate so be it, you dont lose anything. Wat if the info is accurate??? You could have saved a few more lives.
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Vinay
Kannadiga:) :
You comment on my ‘upbringing and culture’ for using abusive language. I say to you that any person who rejoices at the death of the police top brass at a time of calamity, and calls him names, is surely of a gutter upbringing – probably rose up from the sewers.
Everyone knows that the police and ATS are ill-equipped, and that their bulletproof vests are not made to stop automatic machine guns. Even the commandos do not have equipment of the standard used by certain other countries. That does not give you an excuse to vilify a person who has done his bit, with all the restrictions, political interference, etc.
It is you who does not ‘understand simple things’ and tries to cover it up by using words like ‘gasbag’ which I guess, you copy-pasted from my posts here. For one last time, try to understand what I am talking about, else do not bother to reply. I am not interested in reading your vile accusations which reflect gutter-mentality.
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Karihaida
People here are talking about the so called “intelligence” which had given credible info. How can these agencies be credible when the only thing they are good at is political intelligence? The clean up has to start from the IB, RAW, the state intelligence, terror squads etc and their connection with politics must be broken. The question is how?
Will the BJP take the lead in this direction by dumping Advani and promote Dr. Abdul Kalam as PM ? That could be a change we can look forward to …
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bari olu
Prajwaleshwaraaa,
Karkare gotakk andiddu yen aakashvaani inda gottaitaa ninge?? Did u not get to know through news or print media?? I know which are the ones which give authentic info and which are the ones which add masala. Ninna asambhaddavaada maatugalanna neene itko. I feel it unworthy to have a debate with you, because your comments lack direction.
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Proud Mumbaikar
I have a message to terrorists:
no matter what happens, no matter how much you try, you can’t beat us. You can’t knock out our spirit. You can’t stop us from coming back to work and school and college.
No matter what happens the spirit of Mumbai lives on. No matter what happens, Mumbai’s spirit cannot be crushed. What is this spirit some ask?
The spirit is that no matter what happens, no matter how severe floods are, no matter how much rain falls, no matter how many people lose their lives, you mourn for them and feel sympathy for them but you get back to work the next day.
No matter what happens, you get back to work and get back to work and get back to work and get back to work. If you’re struck down 1000 times you get back in those trains and buses and get back to work.
No matter what happens you just get back in those local trains and buses and keep going.
My dear Mumbaikars: show the terrorists they’ve failed. Ensure that the offices are full, ensure that the colleges are full, ensure that the schools are full-above all-ensure that the trains and buses are full to the brim. We have to show these bastards that they’ll never succeed in breaking our spirit-I want to see trains and buses and work places as crowded as before.
Show the Mumbai spirit….get struck down 1000 times and get back 1001 times to work.
That’s the Mumbai spirit!!
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Sandesh
Proud mumbaikar
You have no other choice but to get back to work… you have to feed and cloth your near and dear ones. And don’t label this helplessness as “spirit”.
In fact the behaviour you describe is that of an insensitive one…albeit created and furthered by repeated blasts/attacks and political ineptness!
Of course the rest of India too is helpless and has the same “spirit”.
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Vinay
Proud Mumbaikar:
What is needed is not to get struck 1000 times and get back 1001 times, but to ensure that we stop getting struck anymore.
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prajwal
@bari olu
my commenting lacks direction…thank goodness!!! At least it doesnt lack common sense unlike in ur case, all ur comments lack even the slightest hint of human intelligence!
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Janasamanya
Finally nothing happens in our country. Things move on until next episode and we will continue to write blogs condemning each other, finding fault with each other, criticizing each other, quarrelling with each other and suffer unitedly. Jai Bharat!
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bari olu
Prajwal,
I know how common your common sense is :P
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Ravi
The British ‘Independent’ newspaper reports an AP feed
“We warned of Mumbai attacks, says US
“India was warned of a terrorist attack by US intelligence officials before the Mumbai massacre, it emerged today.
A senior official in the Bush administration said today they passed on information that terrorists appeared to be plotting a mostly water-borne attack on India’s financial capital.
One Indian official admitted it picked up intelligence in recent months that Pakistan-based terrorists were plotting attacks against Mumbai targets”
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Dr. Jyoti
A public interest litigation has been filed by Adv. Praveen Verma at M.P Highcourt Of Jabalpur seeking formation of a committee of highly specilised & trained military/paramilitary/N.S.G/police officers to monitor &control live telecast of sensitive operations like hostage rescue missions,matters of internal security & when there is danger to lives on a REAL TIME BASIS i.e ‘As soon as it happens’
The aim being that live telecast gives all informatoin on real time basis to the terrorists & their masterminds who consoldate accordingly and new instructions given over satellite phones while our commandos are unaware of strenght & location of terrorists & hostages
It has been asked that a committee of technical prersons be formed instead of govt. machinery,I.A.S officers or ministers who have no knowledge,technical expertise or experience what so ever in these matter & have utterly failed in tackling such situation endangering lives. It is asked that such committee would immediately impose a time delay of 2-3 hours in instant live telecast of such sensitive operations to aviod any advantage to the terrorist .
The instant live shots/video coverage with ZOOM CLOSEUP or strategic LOCATION OF COMMANDOS,HIGHLIGHTED PROCEDURAL DETAILS i.e when & how many N.S.G commandos are there, specific detailsof COMMANDOS DROPPING VIA HELICOPTER AS SHOWN IN THE ‘MUMBAI TERROR ATTACKS’ has given enormous advantage to the terrorists.
“THIS HAS TO STOP.YOUR ANY HELP IS SOLICITED IN HIGHLIGHTING THIS SENSITIVE & URGENT MATTER.HELP,SUPPORT & ADVERTISE THIS CAUSE TO BUILD A PUBLIC APPEAL”
Jesus save SONIA and her family
Heart beats for Mumbai.
Indian political leaders including the gutless PM and his entourage were sleeping all these months when sporadic but orgainsed attacks were taking place in major cities. The Congress and its fellow travellers have been too cozy with muslims and their organisations since Nehru’s time. PM Singh and his minstry let the terrorism grow without taking any strict actions fo fear of offending their Islamic chums.
This carnage was waiting to happen. Just why any foeigner wants to visit India which has become a banana republic is beyond me. Until India is seen to get grips with the terrorist problem, no foreigner visitor should visit India, including all business, trade govt and parliamentary delegations which will alone put pressure on sleeping Singh and Co. India with its 20% muslim population equal to the numbers inhabiting in USA is a complex problem requiring some hard solutions. I know that Indian leaders are not upto it.
Other countries like Britain, USA and Spain did suffer from terrorist attacks, but they learnt their lessons from failures and constant vigil is being kept and questionable cells are monitored. It will not happen in India. Best advice is to shun the place.
Shame to all who were dwelling on Hindu terrorism. This is what happened as a result.
seriously, as Advani said, this is the time to rise above politics, religion, caste and what not.
We can worry about all of that later on, lets for the moment, pray for the well being of the citizens stuck there. Once they are all out safely, we should then as a country analyse what we want to be, where we want to be and how to get there.
Ravi, if you cannot behave like an Indian while pretending to be concerned about India…why bother writing about these things?
Expect URA to condemn NSG commandos for harassing innocent minorities who came on boats
Hi what the heck is happening isn’t this supposed to be done by the RSS and the sangah with the help of ppl like the sadhvi, these ATS guys were sleeping with a bomb ticking below their arse.
Our spineless, crawling PM said that the attacks on the christians and churches was a national shame? Is this death and mayheim a pround moment for him? He is a disgrace to the brave Sardars’ community. India is no longer safe even for Indians. How can we claim to be a future superpower, when we have a government, which knows nothing beyond statements, and vote bank politics.
These terrrorists could walk in with such weapons only because the Government, for fear of offending the minorities has castrated the security forces, which would have and could have caught the haul of weapons.
The battles no longer take place on distant borders. The battles take place right amidst us, before our eyes. But, this idotic government puts up radio advertisements claiming that every Indian is a soldier in its battle against terrorism. Government is using Indians as cannon fodder. There are a over a billiion Indians. Few hundred more deaths hardly matter to the nattily dressed home minister and the PM whose heard cries out when minorities are hurt.
If the government continues to be negligent about finishing off terrorists and their harbourers, the time will not be far when more Col.Purohits will surface to the government’s job.
The words the PM used, that violence will not be tolerated, that the guilty will be brought to book, that people should remain calm etc. How many times have we heard those words? From the PM, from the most ineffective Home Minister this country has had, from Madam who has to read out even those three sentences, I agree with you Gurushant hundred percent
Dear All,
I agree with Ravi and also the need to rise above all and stay united! I am wondering where are the champions of Seculars like URA and Dirty Devegowda at this time?
That duffer of ATS chief Karkare paid with his life when he confronted the ‘real’ terrorists–all along the man was addressing a press conference everyday! During this time the real terrorists were plotting to kill innocent people and create mayhem.
I think we have to go back to stringent laws and constant vigil if there has to be any sense of security for the common man.
Palahalli,
I am stating the truth and you cannot digest it. Talk to your brethern
who are toting the AK-47 holding hostages, and better crawl at their knees to let these visitors go whose sole crime is to do business with India. Do not shoot the messenger.
As for me pretending to be an Indian- I used to know one Palahalli S an MLA lter became a congress minister who looked only after himself and came to every home with folded hands at the time of elections.
Its a clear case of Hindu terrorism. Vote UPA, save country.
Doddi Buddi,
Yes..I too agree we need more stringent laws but laws are one part of the solution. They come into picture after the terrorist attacks. For a jihadi who is brainwashed in a madrassa to die for Islam, laws are immaterial. They just don’t care for it. So the solution lies elsewhere.
Strike Porkistan (i.e attacking the roots). Eliminating Porkistan or breaking it up (Sindhudesh, Baluchistan, Pashtunistan) should now be the goal. Enough of this sh*t. The least that this government can do is to bomb PoK. But then it is Sonia, MMS and Shivraj ‘armani’ Patil at the centre not Indira G :(
One central minister called this attack “India’s 9/11”. I would like to ask him whether the govt will respond like America did.
DB
When Tamil Tigers ran amuck and that was the first time people in Mysore saw what AK-47s looked like, for one was brandished at the face of one of my relatives when these thambis of Thiru Karuna stopped a train and robbed people of their belongings. The Congress govt of Rajiv Gandhi did not act for fear of alienating Thiru Karuna and he unltimately became their victim.
When Bangalore was terrorised with bomb blasts, State govt did nothing and Indian govt kept on turning the other way. It is a well known fact since Nehru’s time the Islamic constituencies have been feted, wooed and two presidents of India, countless chief justices of states were muslims to recognise them. I am not an Islamic-phobe but surely these thugs must have had their cells in muslim communities for long before perpetrating this crime. There is much collateral damage in yesterday’s atrocities, many dead mumbai city dwellers perhaps are innocent muslims. But for these jihadis, it does not matter as it did not when they exploded a subway train in London on 7/7 which was packed with muslim passengers as the station was serving a precinct with majority muslim Londoners.
PM Singh and the real power queen Sonia will not act unless the foreign companies, call centres, links to India through business etc. are pulled out.India needs stringent homeland security framework like the USA and Britain and strict laws of detention are to be passed. I am sorry to say that it will not happen. It is insult to those who were killed yesterday for merely going about their business.
Ravi, please don’t talk like an imbecile.
Your “foreigner” centric breast beating is very irritating.
Hindus need security for themselves. That will automatically take care of any foreigner visitor. Don’t worry.
If you persist in being a nuisance, I will remind you that these killers have been armed and financed by these self same Americans, the killers were looking for in Mumbai. Should we say “these foreigners brought their fight and misery to our shores”?
The headlines should have been the continuance of the Third World War by Jihadis.
This was started after 9/11 and went to UK, Bali, Spain, and in between India several times and continuously in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan.
It is high time every religiious group join hands and isolate this tiny miniscule terrorist jihadi group and do not try to think of some ridiculous excuse to rationalize their atrocious behaviour. It is no brainer that islam should take the lead in this world war III.
UN should call an urgent meeting and give a call to isolate these jihadi elements.
Stop religionising terror. Characerising terrorism as Hindu or Muslim is nothing less than an invitation to perpetuate terror.
Its more sickening than ‘sickularists’ to see Durbuddis feeling happy to see ATS chief dying. Worry not, PM in waiting the grand old ‘Tagadu’ purush will have his dream fulfilled,so the current Hindu terrorists will be let off and even be rewarded while Hemath karakare would be forgotten .For now the least you can do keep your happiness to yourself.
Hemant Karkare shot dead …..what a divine justice. I saw this guy preparing himself for the counter attack, he did not look very fit to go in and take on the terrorist, may be he was thinking they would be as easy as Sadhvi Pragya Thakur. To think this guy was also serving in the RAW sends chill down my spine. What sort of incompetent ass&^&( do we have in our intelligence establishment.
the left “pseudo secular” bashing has begun.
I was able to see some video clips on the last minutes of ATS chief. A sense of defeat was writ on his face because when he was shown donning his helmet and Kevlar (?, not sure he really did wear one though!)he knew that his team had not got any clue of the whole terrorism plot as it transpired later. Well a desk Johnny can only be a desk Johnny! Giving press walahs some sound bites about the ‘imaginary’ terrorists is much easier right? He failed in his duty and I am sure he must have realized in the last microsecond of his existence how wrong he must have been wasting time chasing after the imaginary terrorists when the real ones were recceing Mumbai and preparing for the event,…
Here is a nice clip on suicide bombers by Billy Connolly. Watch and listen carefully!
There goes the brave Rabbit (as seen im Mumbai Mirror photo) with his gun and showing fearless attitude!
Its the sadhvi all right.
Hindu terror from Pakistan. The sight of our Pm bleating into the tv cameras was pathetic.
BTW Where is shivraj patil? Did he run out of clothes?
what can PM, HM, Advani, modi, do ?
It is we the common man who has to stand up, we should change our mentality, be prepared to sacrifice, we should keep ourselves fit and strong, and start thinking like the israelis.
The day may not be far away, when infosy are iscon are stormed. so better start getting ready.
Manmohan’s speech lacked conviction. He did not induce any confidence on the distressed people. He should have come out strongly against terrorism. Being the PM of India he has a Huge Military at his command. He should have shown more spine. Unfortunately Manmohan is not cut out for his job. He should have stayed as the RBI governor or retired after his tenure in PVN’s government.
There has been a terror attack in the Railway station and also Hotels around the Gateway of India. But all the Media coverage is from the place which is used by the rich and affluent and not a place used by the poor. Why this discrimination, they are also Humans!!
While the entire nation looks to the Army for succour in yet another crisis, how many people know that Kargil Day, which also falls in November, has just gone by? Our most recent war and we have already forgotten the men who laid down their lives for us in our hour of direst need. Which of our TV channels or newspapers carried tributes to these brave soldiers, the real heroes of our country? Why do we not honour and immortalize them? Why do we fail to capitalize on these rare opportunities to take pride in our country and rise above the forces that are now working furiously to divide us?
Events are still unfolding in terror-hit Mumbai. When, God willing, the crisis is over, we will have the full picture – the debt of gratitude owed by so many to so few will become clear. But, a few years from now, will we see the same Kargil story, of forgetfulness and neglect, played out once more with respect to the sacrifices of the heroes of today?
Doddi Buddi:
Shame on you! Karkare paid with his life while trying to do his job, which is to fight terrorists, being head of the “ATS”. He did it so that rascals like you can continue living your lives in peace. The least you can do is to shut up.
Everyone who has interacted with Karkare is unanimous that the man was thoroughly professional, respected, with an excellent track record and thoroughly no-nonsense. People sit in Air Conditioned cubicles, usually outside India, and puke on the keyboard, without sparing a thought for the immense political pressure that organizations like the ATS work under.
To say that Karkare was ‘duffer.. busy giving press conferences.. instead of confronting ‘real’ terrorists..’ is the sign of a sick and perverted mind.
Palahalli
No use in getting abusive which is typically you when you lose arguments. You do not put any arguments except standing at the sides and sniping. That was exactly your Palahalli S I was referring to was doing.
Idiots like you do not get it. This is a blog in cyberspace and you do niot control the arguments. Again Typically Palahalli S. Any relation to him?
Develop and argument otherwise shut up.
Doddi Buddi is up to his usual self and is joined by the ‘Kannadiga:-)’. It sends a ‘chill down my spine’ to see that people like them are a produce of Karnataka, and India.
Karkare was the one who solved more then a few serial blasts in the past, and brought the prepertators to justice. The terrorists were all Muslims there, and the cowardly Doddi Buddi chooses to ignore that now.
This is what happens in India if one tries to be professional and unbiased while doing their duty. As long as double dealing scoundrels are alive, India cannot hope to have an efficient police force.
Impolite!
I would urge you to follow your hero Karkare’s example! I just spoke out what every right-thinking Indian would worry about an ATS chief who went to meet the terrorists just as he would go out in the rain wearing a rain coat. Unfortunately his incompetence did him in–no use calling him a hero unless in your dictionary heroes just get slaughtered like sheep!
Also Karkare seem to have interacted with desk Johnny’s like yourself and he probably thought he had some mystic power to dodge live bullets! So all hero, martyr, and other unbecoming qualities do not apply…
Nits!
Sorry to make you feel bad with my remarks on Kurkure! The man was obviously a cat’s paw of the State government uncovering a non-existent ‘Hindu’ terror plot. When faced with the real Jehadis the man sauntered out for a vada pav thinking he was safe from all harm feeling brave under a simple helmet and some bullet-proof dress. Sorry wrong again–Game Over! Incompetence is highly prized in the current system–I am sure ‘Tharadu Sattha’ Shivraj Patil and Kurkure were great pals…
June Gaur,
Exactly! A Nation that does not respect its martyrs is on its way out!
Friendsville,
I think you mean well but don’t forget we don’t just live in Hinduville! Therefore we have to understand things from a context.
Ravi,
I can very well believe your AK-47 incident! That duffer Rajeev tolerated ThiruKa for a long time and he became a Kurkure in the end :(
Ditto with Veerappa (n)–same story and only Jayalalitha showed everyone she wears ‘Mandya Cheddis’ under her gargantuan undergarments by going after poacher Thambichami Veerappan!Our own US-educated Somnalli Kitta was busy trying on a new wig during the Veerappan era!
Security personnel dying in the line of duty deserve respect. If Shri Karkare was a lesser man, he would not have been there. As far as lethargic body language is concerned, there was plenty of it on display even amongst our troops on site. It’s very churlish to get into such gossip. Least we forget, there are folks to talk like this about Shri MD Sharma too. Shri Karkare’s ATS – Malegaon related blunders may be disconnected from the situation of his death.
And murkh Ravi. Your only argument that you “developed” is to have foreigners blackmail an Indian government into “acting”. How are you any different from the johnnies who rush to the Vatican every time a Padre gets thrashed? How different are you from the John Dayals who lead delegations to Durban and to the US in order to “press” the Indian Govt on Dalit issues??
Have you so quickly forgotten that it was these self same foreigners who have consistently blocked any Indian action against Pakistan? Do you, in your immeasurable ignorance really think that an Obama or a Brown will stand by and watch India do an Israel on Pakistan? Hell! Pakistan is their ally!
Anybody reading you must think these foreign governments are raging and raving at us Indians for not bombing the shit out of Pakistan!
I must say affected foreign folk, to their credit, have shown more balls than you do here.
Damn the politicisation of every sphere of public life.
Majority of those coastguards must have used lots of political influence or paid money to get posted there! Ditto about the police.
Vinay,
With much respect to the departed soul, he was just a pawn manipulated by politicians. Did we need so much drama in front of the camera?
They are simply multiplying the fanatics and the reasons they have given to repeatedly do narcoanalysis on Pragya is stupid(they said that she regularly practised pranayama so she is able to control her thoughts!) and she was subjected to it not once or twice but four times!
Where are our beloved human right activists? They cry foul for conducting narcoanalysis, measly once, on those militants!
Palahalli:
You have spoken very sensibly. Some immature buffoons cannot see the incidents of Malegaon and Mumbai separately. You put it very well: “If he were a lesser man, he would have not been there”. People sitting and spouting insane comments should be told to go take a walk.
Every serving and retired police officer is unanimous that Karkare was a top-notch officer. He has cracked cases in the past, which, by the way, were perpetrated by Muslim fundamentalists.
Reading the comments of one pompous ass here, who thinks it is extremely rib-tickling to translate all nicknames into English, one would think he is a security and counter-terrorism expert. Seriously, what do these people know? As if he knows the competence levels of each officer in the Maharashtra police by reading reports in the media. Fool!
Impolite,
I can understand your grief about your favorite hero. I hope you feel better by watching the tapes over and over again where your hero steps out gingerly into the open.
N-A-W-N,
Correctly observed! There you go Impolite. Get that into your humint input folder. Have a kurkure and chillax.
Not A Witty Nick:
I would like to make the point again, that he was much better than several other officers, in terms of capability, results and track record. He was among the country’s best. At this point of time, a simple google will tell you that he has contributed hugely to previous investigations and solved several terror cases which were the handiwork of SIMI and other islamic organizations.
What is going to happen now is, the Sadhu and Sadhvi will be remembered for eternity, whereas Karkare will be vilified, demonized, and abused.
And what ‘drama’ are you talking about?? The media is an ass, and will cover Rahul Gandhi pissing, or LK Advani farting, if they feel it increases their TRP rating. It is the media which runs behind all famous figures and tries their best to extract a misplaced comment here, a controversial statement there.. Just look at the way the media has been ‘covering’ this incident?
Yaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnn….
All these days our intelligence offiers were sleeping like me. Finally they woke up after those terrorists killed 125 people. Shivraj Patil mukha kooda thorsthaayilla. Peddh Munde MMSsu yen maadthilla. Yen gathi bantho. Devaru sattavara aatmakke shanthi kodali.
Kumbhakarana – kumbhakarana@jaagore.com
Impolite!,
I found this gem on IE Readers Comments…
…”Deadly Mistake
by Vivek on 2008-11-27 20:01:39.674446+05:30
I am sorry to say this about a deceased officer. In my opinion, Mr Karkare had the responsibility to protect himself and his senior staff from these two-bit terrorists by staying out of harm’s way. It is very demoralizing to the rank and file of ATS when the senior leadership is wiped out in the first few minutes of the battle. In chess, it is like sacrificing your queen to a pawn in the third move of the game. Indian security agencies cannot let this happen….”
Well that is why we are concerned that the same officer who was injecting truth serum into all and sun dry was probably living in a fantasy land. And to think that the same officer solved serial blasts case somewhere is hard to believe.
Thanks Vinay.
Doddi Buddi – I don’t see a context that justifies making fun of a man who was killed by Islamic murderers.
But your post made me think about something related. We are a casual people. Like I said before, our troop body language, with rare exceptions, was not at all inspiring. Not like what you would see on parade. Lethargic and lazy….not quick…and not crisp. When I watched them coming on site, I noticed no urgency. There must be Turn Around Times for troop dispositions (?)
I think our overly “emotional” trait comes through in all we do.
Vinay,
Before spewing venom on me and DB just think about this. Karkare was a top notch officer of the ATS who had loads of experience behind him. With that kind of experience he should be sitting in a central command post and rallying his men against the terrorists instead of rushing like a fool to take on the terrorist himself wearing a shoddy helmet and a bullet proof armour which looked more like a apron to me. And how did he die, he was shot down by 2 terrorists hiding in a bush who opened fire on the vehicle he was travelling with 2 of his officers. That shows he had poor judgement and understanding of the terrorists he wanted to fight.
You see there is a difference between fighting a terrorist who is willing to die for a cause and taking a casual walk on the chaupati beach with your wife to eat vada/pav. Hope Karkare knew the difference, but apparently he did not and so he paid with his life.
Doddi Cheddi:
If you find it ‘hard to believe’ that an officer solved serial blasts somewhere, you can stick it up… Nobody gives a rat’s ass about what the great gasbag ‘Doddi Buddi’ thinks anyway. You are the very definition of ‘armchair expert’.
Had you been in Karkare’s position, I can appreciate that you would probably sequester yourself in a bank’s safe deposit locker, with a mobile phone and an empty 2-litre bisleri bottle (for obvious necessities).
Doddi Buddi,
Whatever it is..lets say Karkare was a fool to have gone to fight the terrorists himself without proper gear, but he did fight against them. He did not lock himself up in his house like politicians. He fought. He sacrificed his life to protect Mumbai. Till NSG and army arrived it was basically the job of ATS and Mumbai police to handle the situation and they did it. Success or failure does not matter. Kudos to them.
If you read about India China war of 1962, Indian jawans did not have proper clothing or modern protective gear to fight the Chinese. But they did fight to protect their motherland and sacrificed their life. Do you also call them duffers?
I read this below piece and got goose bumps. Lets salute all those who sacrificed their life and their families.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/27mumterror-slain-cops-daughter-tearless.htm
Vinay,
ATS is not equipped to fight the terrorists hand to hand. It is the job of the NSG and Army commandos. ATS is good for doing a post mortem investigation of things that already took place. There is no incidence of ATS prempting any terrorist attack so far and stopping it. There is a difference between encounter of a terrorist who is unprepared for the encounter and a terrorist who is fully prepared for any eventuality. ATS may be good in the former and is no good in the latter situation.
For christs sake stop deifying these people. It is like saying all the people who died in 9/11 were heroes. They were not. They all died because they were in WTC that day because their days work brought them there. If they knew there would be a attack on 9/11, I am sure none of them would have turned up for work on that day. So dont go overboard about Hemant Karkare. I agree it was a loss and I regret it. Anything more than that is simply hogwash.
@DB, nice point.
On the same note what were MMS and the entire who’s who of the UPA doing in the area even while combing operations were going on? As if the security forces did not have more important things to worry about, than guarding these folks. What if some of these worthies were targetted? Who would be to blame then?
Palahalli,
Please…let us not point fingers at our troops. They are the real heroes. It is easy for us arm chair pundits to look at the idiot box and say that they looked lazy, lethargic etc. Our forces are professional to the core and they are one of the best in the world.
Our forces are doing an awesome job in Mumbai. NSG is a world class counter terrorism unit. Remember even an average call center driver makes more money than our Jawans.
Hindus are really passive. Imagine the reaction of any other country in which this kind of thing were to happen….
Most likely these terrorists had networks in India. Otherwise they would not have been so brazen. Which is why Indian PM is wrong to emphasize that it was the work of foreigners. It was the work of foreigners who have domestic networks to further their agends–networks about which the Indian government chooses to look the other way…People say most people who commit such acts are poor. No they are not. Most terrorists are educated and have a well planned agenda….
First of all, HIndus are very passive. I can only imagine the reaction if this kind of thing were to happen in Russia or China or even the U.S.A.
Furthermore, the Indian PM is wrong to emphasize that this was the work of foreigners–this was the work of foreigners who have domestic networks to carry out their agendas. If these people did not have domestic support or networks they would not have been so brazen. Why emphasize the “foreign” element, and not admit that the government has consistently ignored the safety of its people?
As I write our commandos are trying to rescue the people trapped in Taj, Oberoi and Nariman house, the whole of India is weeping for the loss and cheering our commandos, our PM is talking to our neighbors, our politicians (left, right and centre) are united against terrorism.
What do these terrorists want? This is not going to break our spirit. We will stand united against you. You will never succeed.
Come on India, this is time to be united and stand up against these sinister elements.
I plead GOI to take a decisive steps to prevent terrorism. I know it is a global issue and our country is a complex, let us all work together to eradicate this menace. Tell us what do you want from ordinary citizen like me. We do not have lack of funds. Please tax me more but show me more accountability. Do you want many of us to join you to fighting this? Please show us the opportunity.
I recollect Bhagawat Gita verse
“Yada Yada Hi Dharmasya
Glanirva Bhavathi Bharatha,
Abhyuthanam Adharmaysya
Tadatmanam Srijami Aham’.
Bhagavad Gita (Chapter IV-7)
“Whenever there is decay
of righteousness O! Bharatha
And a rise of unrighteousness
then I manifest Myself!”
Krishna, we need you to fight these terrorists
Jai Hind
Ravi and other, Can we stop this non-sense. The more we fight among ourselves these terrorists will prosper.
Kannadiga-Tamil, Maharastrian and non maharastrian, Naxalites, North-south, Hindi speaking and Non-Hindi speaking, Harijans and non harijans ..
Oh my God, how many reasons to fight among ourselves.
Folks,
this to me is the start of actualisation of Huntingtons postulates in india. between Infidels like me and jihadists ala vinay(WTF, venom spewer calls himself vinay! LOL)
hmmm…me finds it very very interesting that ppl who have no idea of what police duties are nor have served in the army are commenting on whether an officer who was killed in anti terror operations was worthy or unworthy of his post….
doddi buddi and company:
Pray tell, how would you decide who is worthy or not worthy of a post…and yes, i would be very grateful if u tell me what records of the late Karkare u have considered before deeming him unfit for his job? You pieces of S**T have been commenting on what the media reports about a person or on the amount of media appearances a person makes and without any reference to his work .
(DO NOT GO ON AND ON ABOUT THE WHOLE BULLETPROOF VEST THING….APPARENTLY YOU GUYS HAVE NEVER ADORNED A BULLET PROOF VEST FOR OUR COUNTRY; ALSO IT WOULD DO U A GREAT DEAL OF GOOD IF U BOTHERED TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT ARMOUR PIERCING AMMO(u can look it up in quite a few of the of the million discovery channel episodes or for that matter in your fav source, wikipedia)).
@Holasu buddi
Shove some kurkure up yours..
oh yeah…@everyone condemning the intelligence agencies and the security agencies
ITS BLOODY FOOLISH of us to think that a group of a few thousand men can protect every single person in a 1.1+ billion member populace.Especially when the opponents number also in thousands.
Its also outright dumb to think that only our security forces have men capable of carrying out what they are trained to do.I mean there is enough evidence to show that even terrorists train and plan to execute and unleash terror. SO how DARE we assume that they are inferior to our security forces? A terrorist might be equally good/better/worse than our commandos or army soldiers or cops at carryin out his/her mission. So it is stupid to say our SECURITY SERVICES FAILED when citzens get killed. Any sort of war, civil war, urban war or open orthodox declared war is a game of planning and thoughts, jus that the price is life of ppl. You win some and you lose some. This cannot be the judge of whether an organisation is functioning to its efficiency or not! By that logic, terrorist cells have to be deemed inefficient cos the number of times they have been foiled is more than the number of times they have been successful!
@DB
ever heard/ read the treatises on war? the foremost of the requirements of a good officer being he commands from the front when able and not from the behind. Its easy to let someone else take a bullet shot for you, isn’t it?
Ac to u all our officers should react
“oh, im officer, i ll let a non officer take a bullet by sending him up front.My life is more worthy than his”
Sheesh….grow a spine dude!
not the time DB.
there were people standing outside and cheering the commandos learn from them. know who your first line of defense are. despite all the aspersions cast by the intelligencia, people like karkare,kamte, solaskar, gajendar singh, unnikrishnan stood up for all it matters and paid the ultimate price for a country that ZERO gratitude for them. remember, they were facing unscrupulous barbarians. who the fukk attacks a hospital?
think about it. how idealistic should people like unnikrishnan be. people like gajendra singh put their lives in line for fat cat intelligencia to engage in idealogical, intellectual masturbation.
taayi bharati udho!
bharata matege jayavagali.
bharat mata ki jai!
as i said, anybody who tries to rationalize this should have his head “probed”. barkha dutt and morons at NDTV making a serious case of their insanity.
@palahalli
What kind of body language you expect from the people (read army jawans) who are paid a penny and half to give their life for you? They are not even sure whether the government will look after their families after their worldly departure?
All this discussion about politics and terrorism is pointless. Its going to happen irrespective of who is in power, given the security infrastructure that we have.
Just look at the average policeman we have on the street. His job is the first line of defense, but do you think he has the motivation to do the job when it really matters, with his 5K salary, lathi and a .303 rifle? No wonder it was reported that a pandey cried and ran away from one of the hotels saying that his rifle can fire only bullet while trying to protect a couple of hostages. And the people higher up the police chain are more interested in furthering their political carrers than bothering about terrorist activities. The less said about ‘intelligence’ agencies, the better.
These things are not going change any time soon.
Its time we start to take care of ourselves, instead of bitching about gov’t, if you really want to protect yourself. Invest in weapons if you can, at the very least carry a swiss knife always. Do some research about how to get out of such situations. Read about crude bombs, IEDs and how you can spot them and defuse them if you have to. Get physically fit.
PS: The state gov’t announced holiday yesterday because the duffer VP Singh died (the gov’t should try to get back all the money spent on trying to keep him alive) and not because of the terrorist attacks. Do you still want to believe that the gov’t will save your sorry ass from being blown up?
Palahalli,
I am not disappointed by your conjectures and ignorance. You need to learn a bit more. No use in mindless ranting accusing ‘foreigners’ as Singh does, having let down the country and people. The problem lies with Indian leaders.
Pakistan could have been crushed anytime after 1947. Like Greek and Turkey partition, when they exchaged Turks and Greeks, muslims in India and Hindus in Pakistan could have been exchanged, but for Nehru. Nehru was a coward, every time skirmishes big and small occurred in Indo-pakistan border, instead of attacking Pakistan militarily he ran to UN. In early 1950s there was not much support for Pakistan anywhere. Indeed Kashmir could have been taken in 1950s if Nehru had not ordered cease fire and ran to UN again. He wanted his crypto-communist friend VKK Menon to talk in that talkshop called UN.
Time is of the essence, ignoramus. Pity you blame every foreign leader except Indian leaders. They for dragged Kashmir and Pakistan problems for decades. You talk about israel now. At one time Israel was an enemy to India and that corrupt guy who wore tea towel on his head, Arafat was a friend of India. India did not like Israel creation. Read what Gandhi said. In my secondary school and college days in 1950s, we were not allowed to mention Israel without using the term palestinian territory. Israel was recognised only recently. Indian govt always liked to lick palestinian and Arab’s shoes who supported Pakistan always. That is information for you. Grow upa bit, read a bit and then come back.
If you drag problems into 1960s, 70s and 80s and so on, problems become complicated. Same case with terrorists. China does not care for any foreign powers and does what is good for its survival. Why not India? Because it is mired in corruption and Indira Gandhi dynastical power smoke screen. who looks like stupid now? you , palahalli. It is worth if you dig out what Palahalli S, the corrupt MLA and minister did in 1950s and 60s. He used to argue like you. Any relation to him?
When the dust is settled, you will learn that these terrorists were able to operate in Bomaby willy-nilly supported by Muslim finaciers of Bollywood and some even muslim Bollywood actors. Just How they were able to
bring in artilleries of such magnitude without being noticed? India doing like Israel. No way. They could not free hostages without them being killed. Where else in the world an anti-terrorist chief gets killed at the beginning of a siege.
here goes our toilet times of india again god save us from these vile media.
9 million readers turn to TOI for Mumbai attack news
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/9_million_readers_turn_to_TOI_for_Mumbai_attack_news/articleshow/3771150.cms
Learn to Treat every Indian as a Equal.
Then Indians will treat each other well…
Araam se bhai…
I too believe that he was amongst our best men! Just imagine the political pressure on him? How can any person with so much responsibility manage politicians’ fancies concurrently with his job?
Be it in Batla House or in CST/Cama hospital, there were serious errors in their judgmental skills and we lost such skillful and brave officers because of it!
The drama was not the usual TRP boosting antics of the media, it was like conducting investigation, analysing and corroborating evidence and finally conducting a trial live on TV!
This is plain evil whether it is Sadhvi and co. or any other alleged criminal is involved.
TS,
I agree and I am willing to sign a truce. This Karkare fellow was incompetent’ Let’s agree on that. I am as bit a sensitive soul as the next man but simply glorifying some ass who ran out into the street randomly is unworthy of the high office he deemed to represent. If this was his leadership then it is a relief to note that he became a quick statistic during the need of the hour!
When he was pumping truth serum into Pragya Thakur and Purohit none of the seculars cared a fig about their human rights? This duffer forgot that his job was to focus on terrorism–not on some abba dabba theories about Hindutva terror!!
Let this duffer’s soul rest in peace giving press conferences in the nether world on what he did or didn’t or was going to do…
Hiker & Babuds – Guys, please don’t get me wrong. I have the greatest respect for our forces. Moreover, any man going into battle with full knowledge that he could get killed is a Hero to me.
It was my observation. I suppose making it now was bad timing.
And Ravi, it seems you’re “developing” your argument all over the place much like our real estate guys :)
I don’t wish to be patient with an arrogant bum like you so I’ll be brief.
I detest the manner you go about wishing foreigners arm-twist our government into doing things. It’s called being a quisling.
There are some rules Nationalists live by and one of them is we DO NOT use foreign influence to gain domestic advantage. We help ourselves. I’m surprised at you. You seem old enough to know these things.
Kanandiga:) :
Again, you know zilch about bullet proof armor and bullet proof vests. Armchair experts had better shove some kurkure up their ..
No one knew about what we were up against, till very late in the night. People assumed that it was a druglord war or something similar. No one could have imagined this kind of thing, because it is unprecedented. We are not at war after all.
All we can talk about in our post mortem is the cliched ‘Intelligence Failure’. If it is proved beyond doubt that this thing originated across the border, the RAW and IB will have to answer some hard questions.
In this context, you come across as a great dumbass.
Prajwal:
Very well said. The smelly cheddi really needs to grow a spine. I thank the good lord that he’s not part of our defence or intelligence apparatus.
“Willing to sign a truce..”
Seriously, who does this gasbag think he is? Self-important nincompoop!
Our police have equipment which does not even function properly. The ATS has only marginally better equipment. The bulletproof vest that Karkare had was OK to stop bullets from a revolver or a handgun, certainly not automatic machine gun fire. No one knew what they were up against till late in the night. If people hijack ships and land on the coast with commando-class weapons, the police is completely helpless.
Seriously, in times on national crisis, a gag order needs to be placed on such self-glorifying, holier-than-thou asses.
Avva Madesa:
Do you know what ‘Jehadi’ means? You do not seem to be illiterate, since you type reams and reams of gas almost endlessly in English. Maybe you’re just screamin’ mad (maniacal)? Could be.
What is certain is that if a real national crisis were to occur, people like you, Doddi Buddi, Kannadiga:), and some others will have to have gag orders imposed on yourselves. You guys will learn only if you have bombs being dropped from the sky, and gunfire on the streets (i.e., war).
Till then, it is extremely tough to stop you people from passing ‘expert comments’ on military and police operations from an arm chair. It is bloody sad that people cannot stop finger pointing and blame game(s) even for 24 hours when the need is to shut the fcuk up. Mtoher Fcukres.
And whats more, anyone who shouts out to stop bickering and fighting at this time, and who reprimands people for maligning a police offier who was doing his duty, is branded a ‘Jihadi’. Never mind if the person is a Hindu ‘Brahmin’ who wants people to stop immature nonsense during national crisis, he is still a ‘Jehadi’ for scum like Avva Madesa.
Politicians come from the public, so I wonder now, how justified we are in hating politicians – after all, they are a breed which has sprouted out of the ‘Public’ which, by the way, also comprises people like Doddi Buddi and Avva Madesa. If ‘educated’ people cannot shut up and stand behind security agencies to at least put up a show of unity, forget about the politicians.
Just read the eye witness account in IE on how Karkare and his colleagues were killed. It appears our ATS chief sitting a la ‘utsav murti’ style in the vehicle and the terrorists simpley shot these guys like pigeons. Mighty bad luck or what!
I knew that Impolite was a moron but he is also an imbecile going by his latest gem: ..”No one knew about what we were up against, till very late in the night. People assumed that it was a druglord war or something similar. No one could have imagined this kind of thing, because it is unprecedented. We are not at war after all. All we can talk about in our post mortem is the cliched ‘Intelligence Failure’. If it is proved beyond doubt that this thing originated across the border, the RAW and IB will have to answer some hard questions…”
May be Karkare thought these were some gangland low-lifes shooting at each other?
Doddi Buddi:
What’s the ‘imbecile’ thing you found there? What do you think you are, some intelligence and terrorism expert? You want to give advice to everyone on how to do their job.
This is the problem you see, when a big-fart gets a chance to see media coverage of any high-intensity thing, he cannot stop himself from doling advice like: “Oh, he should have done it this way”, “Oh, why did he go there like that, why didn’t he do that..” You see, every orifice of their body begins itching to provide the world their unsolicited, uncalled-for expertise.
I wouldn’t blame the police or ATS for underestimating what they were up against. They are not in charge of satellite and humint surveillance on neighbouring countries.
Gasbags like you really cannot understand. Like I said before, had you been in Karkare’s position, you’d have sequestered yourself in the safe deposit locker of SBI, with nothing more than a cell phone and an empty 2-litre bisleri bottle (guess why?) for company.
muchappa saaku vinaya. I think there are some valid points that Kannadiga n DB have made. If u followed the malegaon investigations it was clear that ATS wanted to hook up Sadhvi and Purohit to all the unrelated cases like the Samjhauta express blasts. You should have watched karkares press briefings it used to be so lacklustre, like our own PM. We have laptops of the guru, which might hold some information. What crap, come out to media if u have some solid information. Do you need 4 narco analysis tests done on a person.
Where were ill-concieted ppl like u when sadhvi was injected the truth serum 4 times. All these definitely raises doubts . But we probably wont get the answer because Karkare is dead.
My position is held – Shri Karkare is a martyr in this fight. He went in willingly when he could have chosen to “study & direct” from afar. I see Doddi Buddi’s point that we cannot afford to lose senior officers so early in battle when their teams need direction…but when such shit happens, you try not to impale the man. Remember Kargil, when one read reports of losing high numbers of Officers too soon.
His ATS – Malegaon actions need to be discussed in a separate light. There will be time for that.
Impolite,
The Indian School of Imbeciles & Morons (ISIM) just lost its brightest student in Karkare. So you have to contact the headmaster PM for the school’s syllabus. You seem to be a methodical type. So you simply have to wait for some time to absorb the latest developments in the case. Till then you should busy yourself with …”No one knew about what we were up against, till very late in the night. People assumed that it was a druglord war or something similar. No one could have imagined this kind of thing, because it is unprecedented….” Yeah simple minds cannot get their minds around this you see…
bari olu:
It pisses me off when people like you ask questions like: “Where were you when x happened, where were you when y happened…” and so on. It is the sign of an underdeveloped brain that does not realize how to stick to the point being discussed, and take up a given discussion on its individual merit.
If this was tough for you to understand, read “Pala”‘s comment above, he has articulated it well.
@babuds
“What kind of body language you expect from the people (read army jawans) who are paid a penny and half to give their life for you? They are not even sure whether the government will look after their families after their worldly departure?”
Very true.. The least the bloody govt can do is to raise the pay of armed forces, punish the terrorists caught by them (via setting up fast track courts and implementing court orders) and make it clear that their families will be looked after in case they sacrifice their lives on duty.
Until our dimwit politicians make it clear that they give UTMOST respect (not in flowery language..in deeds) to armed forces (including police and others….) we cannot expect them to give a 100% to their duty..although our brave officers do give more than a 100%.
Regarding Hemant karkare.. I too initially thought it “divine justice”. But it was a silly moment which passed away as soon the casualties mounted up and I was aware of the scale of tragedy. I regret that moment now and salute every one who died in rescuing innocent lives.
At the same time, the folks at NDTV and CNN-IBN should be dragged out of their AC studios and beaten to death. They were trying to make it a political issue along with imbeciles like moily and others. Shame on media…Why don’t some terrorists blow up the media houses?
Vinay
Your sentiments are right but your language and obvious disdain for BJP and co make it difficult to read your comments. Please tone down your language so I can read your comments… you do make wonderful comments (I’m serious).
DB, Kannadiga:) and others. We’ll discuss ATS and Sadhvi issue a few days later ?
I feel importance should not be given to the following people and their opinions in future.
a. Shabana and her husband
b. Mahesha bhatt and brothers
b. Arundhati roy and teesta peesta
c. NDTV and CNN IBN heads
d. Laloo, left and other secular parties
e. PM of India!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vinay,
Accepted you are the most intelligent guy!! :P Why shud it piss u off if such a question is asked. I just asked whats ur take on ATS trying to frame Hindus in other cases which are in no way related to Malegoan blasts and when they were caught they withdrew the charges.
I have utmost respect for any police officer who lost his life fighting. I am also not justifying his death either like DB as a divine cause-effect phenomenon. I am saying he probably might not deserve as much adulation. There are thousands of other heroes who have died continuously and no one talks of them.
You are acting in a juvenile manner shouting at everyone; without even trying to understand what the other person has to say.
@ Pala
How can u disassociate some one from his past? Tomorrow Mr. Lallu jadav or his right hand hench-man shahabuddin dies in a terrorist attack. Will u make these people martyrs??
Sandesh:
Actually I do not have disdain for the BJP and co only, but for all parties. Believe me, I vote for the individual, and not the party. This is because I feel that all parties are equally pathetic. There is a school of thought that BJP will bring about a change in the Indian state’s way of reacting to terrorists, we’ll be a tough state, they will end minority appeasement, introduce uniform civil code, and so on. I am damn sure the BJP will do no such thing. They are as much into politicization as anyone else.
This is why I vote for the individual, and not the party, and I do not really hate only the BJP/Parivar.
bari olu – I don’t know who is a Martyr in your opinion, but to me a Martyr is a person who is killed while on his mission, BECAUSE OF, his mission. Shri Karkare was not a passerby. He was not a reporter or a media person who’s getting killed in such zones is always inadvertent unless of course killers make it a point to kill these press people. He went there with the intention to fight. In all probability, he also knew he could die that day.
Coming to Lalu, would you not have respect for that man if he had armed himself and led an attack party, and in the process get killed? Heck you would retain that respect for him even if he survived. The point is this; we only hope that folks like Lalu act like heroes. Why withhold respect from an actual Hero?
I honestly don’t know who or how else one can become a Martyr.
bari olu:
“Thousands of heroes have died elsewhere and no one talks much about them.” That’s expected, isn’t it – this whole thing is so unprecedented – the media has not covered something of this scale for years now
What is my take on this or that is unimportant. There are people I can see on this forum who really, seriously think they know a lot and are highly qualified to pass expert comments on every damn topic. Such crap should be put down immediately, and gagged as soon as possible.
Many Indians define ‘freedom’ in a very unique fashion. For example, “India is a free country, I will piss on the road, right here, you cannot stop me from doing so”. This is just one more example of something similar. Far too much freedom has been given, which we are not mature or capable enough to deserve yet.
Several people who are demanding a tough-state policy for terrorism will be dismayed if it is actually done, because they do not know what it actually implies.
The media (liberal bunch), which is advocating “Tougher policies, even at the cost of a few individual freedoms” will be the first to weep, since they will have gag orders placed on them at once. Certain people on this forum (the hawks) will be the next to weep, since it might well become terribly dangerous to make comments like they have, in public in times like these.
Your martyr question has been answered by Palahalli and I second him. Tomorrow if Arjun Singh and Shivraj Patil carry AK-47s and conduct a flash raid on a terrorist hideout and come back, I will salute them as heroes. Not if they die in a landmine explosion. Again, the point is, most people don’t fully understand the implications of things, and comment just for the sake of commenting.
Palahalli or Pala or whatever
You sound as ineffectual as the PM Singh and his home minister. You
sound so hollow. no use in commenting on what you say.
Ree.. Vinay, pls keep quite,our doddi bddi is emerging as a top class intelectual in this blog, do not dare to qestion him. DB continue to enlight us with your wisdom.
your coments also made me think about past. so many coward police & officers lost their life in trying to nab petty bandit veerappan & people who died mainly becoz of their inefficiency were handsomly awarded by then cong/jd govt, we never realized what a waste of money it was!!. DB you should have born & grew up little early. Anyway our yeddy is the cheif now, yo shold atleast get Rajyothsava or karnataka ratna award.
NY TIMES says:
“..there were clear signs emerging on Saturday that the security forces were ill-prepared to handle the crisis. Much of that was because of systemic problems, interviews with officials showed. There is little information-sharing among law enforcement agencies. Ill-paid city police are often armed with little more than batons. Even the elite commandos heading the charge against the gunmen this week were slowed by old, bulky bulletproof jackets and had no technology at their disposal to determine where the firepower was coming from inside the sprawling hotels.
Sharpshooters had neither protective gear, nor the high-powered telescopes that their counterparts in Western countries would likely use in a standoff with terrorists. On Saturday afternoon, a sharpshooter who had spent over 60 hours perched outside the Taj hotel said neither he nor his partner had fired a single shot because they were not sure how to distinguish the gunmen from ordinary civilians trapped inside the hotel..”
The Times in London reports:
“A spokesman for the Taj did not comment on the enquiries being made into the hotel’s guests but did say that the authorities had not made any moves to investigate its staff. It has been suggested in the Indian media that some of the terrorists had taken jobs at the Taj to reconnoitre the building.”..
Shivraj/RR Patils Amar Rahe..
@bari olu, doddi buddi and the rest who think Karakare was a moron,
I would be honestly grateful if you could be so kind enough as to tell where you get your ideas about miltary operations, from HOLLYWOOD Movies like rock, delta force, black hawk down et al
OR
from second hand bollywood flicks of these movies like asambhav et.al. I am guessing your expertise in Police operations comes from movies like “shootout at lokhandwala” and “company” and “D” and stuff.
Please DO NOT COMMENT on basis of the media reports. Its disturbing to know how we all agree and accept that media today will do anything for TRP ratings and the politicians will do anything for the vote bank. BUT YET, our media is impeccable and will deliver complete unadulterated information when it comes to slandering govt institutions and security agencies, right?
What nonsense dude!! Dude, about the eye witness report, we have no assurance/idea of what the eye witness said because what the media reported was not verbatim. We have no idea of how close to the actrion zone this “eye witness” was! Curiosity question, if this eye witness was from within the zone, how did he escape and why the hell did he not go and give info to Mr. Karkare himself instead of going to our “REPORTERS” and media.
Again about the media reporting,we have all seen instances where teh media has reported 2 sentences from diff parts of an address, added their own interpretation to it and then published the same as controversial topics. Who made you the authority to say they didn’t do it in this case?
And about the ATS chief running out on the street, i presume you and your media buddies were patient enough to see what weapons she was shot with. For all you know he could have been taken out upon arrival at the site with a sniping rifle! Do you know that sniping rifles today have a range of upto more than a mile(more than 1.5 kms away)! The fact that he was the chief of the ATS makes him a prime target in urban warfare, doesn’t make him an imbecile!
I say again, DO NOT COMMENT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE IN A COMBAT ZONE; ESPECIALLY ON BASIS OF WHAT “THE MEDIA” REPORTS! ITS IRRESPONSIBLE ON YOUR PART! OR AT LEAST THINK FROM ALL ANGLES (of ur viewpoint at least) BEFORE YOU COMMENT.
and who told u that the security agencies have to release all the info they have to the media,
if they did release all info about all their ops and equipment and strategy to the media, the media n half witted n half knowledgable ppl like urself will blabber it all over the internet n airwaves n thanks to ppl like u our officers will get killed at home itself.
@bari olu
i dont care whether you justify/respect/not respect the martyred officer because he is already gone. But the point being how could u be so naive to question the worthiness of a highly decorated officer and his appointment based on MEDIA REPORTS and on second hand reports of somethin said by a so called eyewitness.
(i say second hand reports cos u did not talk to this person urself, some one in the press told u they did and u believed them. And so called eye witness because u dont know how close he was to the action,i can sit on a high tower about 4 building away, put up a binoculars/telescope and watch it and i d also be an eyewitness. in that case would u accept what i had to comment about ppl who were actually at the site or would you prefer to hear someone who was in the Taj for eg. being right in the middle of the whole incident. As far as i know non of the commandos/the ex hostages have said anything about the the details of the whole operation. But already we are questioning if someone who was killed was worthy of a high appointment or not! this is BLOODY IRRESPONSIBLE!)
Ravi – In polite language, what you just did is called a “cop-out”. In your case, a shameless cop-out.
Never be a traitor to your people again.
Prajwala bhoopa,
Kumaar yenayya ninna problemmu. I trust IE more than any other media house. IE has a good history of reporting facts correct.Dude i am not omnipresent nor you to keep track of each and every individual in this country. I just said karkare shouldnt have died in such a way. And look at the news flashing, karkare had information on attack and he asked all the 5-star hotels to beef up their private security. What bull shit? The government doesnt have forces to deploy at 5-star hotels as a precautionary measure when they had the information??
and i am sure you are also commenting based on media reporting . Please dont say u have seen karkare every second of ur life. I dunno how u are getting “first hand information” and from where?? Either u must a GOD urself or u are also one of those bull-shitters like arundati roy, karat, sagarika ghose. The juvenile comments u make surely suggest u are the latter. Adeno heltaaralla iddidanna idda haage helidre yedeg band odrante anta. Grow up.
Palahalli
You sound such an imbecile and you are the traitor for supporting a govt which literally killed hundeds of people. Go man, bury your head in muck.
Palahalli,
Again reaing you prattle which sounds like a malfunction of the cerebral cells, I suggest changing your medication or seeing another specialist.
The fall out is so serious that ineffectual Ptil and his minion have resigned. Even too much for Sonia who was familiar with the bloodletting by men in black suits carying violin cases in her native Turin.
we must offer our salutes to some police officials who did take on the terrorists read here:
http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14808506
but at the same time question the need for 3 top police officials to be seated in one vehicle if the media reports are true . End of the day the police in any state is most ill prepared to tackle such attacks and there is an immediate need to reform then retrain them and give them more sophisticated weapons.
bari olu:
Again, you have made a comment without a proper understanding, and without giving proper thought. “The government doesnt have forces to deploy at 5-star hotels as a precautionary measure when they had the information?? “
Which 5-star hotels would need to be covered? Only these three, or the JW Marriot also? What about Juhu Centaur, Tulip Star, …..?
And how long do you cover these locations? 1 day? 2 days? Throughout the year?
OK, we’ve covered all these 5-star hotels completely. Now what about CST station? Leopold Hotel? All the other potential targets? And what if the information was inaccurate, the target was to be a temple instead of hotels?
NO, THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE ADEQUATE FORCES TO DEPLOY. NO, IT DOES NOT.
Of course, we do have adequate forces if you bring the army, NSG, RAF, CRPF, RPF, BSF, etc. etc. into all cities and patrol the entire city round the clock. Guess what that’s called? A police state.
Police reforms, police training, police modernization, freedom from political interference for the police, improvement of the police image among citizens – that is what we need. Also, a dedicated agency to handle, not only terror, but also certain other crimes like Narcotics. An agency with multiple locations spread across the country. And with good infrastructure (e.g. their own aeroplane..)..
Ravi – It seems you cannot comprehend the difference between Indians acting for themselves and “Indians” calling in foreigners for help against fellow Indians; the latter of which is what you so openly suggest we do.
Enough said!
Vinay
>> Again, you know zilch about bullet proof armor and bullet proof vests. Armchair experts had better shove some kurkure up their ..
No one knew about what we were up against, till very late in the night. People assumed that it was a druglord war or something similar. No one could have imagined this kind of thing, because it is unprecedented. We are not at war after all. >>All we can talk about in our post mortem is the cliched ‘Intelligence Failure’. If it is proved beyond doubt that this thing originated across the border, the RAW and IB will have to answer some hard questions.
>>
You seem to compensate your lack of comprehension and understanding with abusive language. This is what exactly I refered to in my response to you in my earlier post. Karakare rushed in without assessing the situation and getting proper information on the attackers. He not only died but also got killed two of his valuable coleagues. Imagination is not what these agencies are paid for, they are paid for taking corrective steps based on previous experiences and incidents. The terrorists were holed up in Taj for months and the ATS did not get a whiff of it. That speaks volumes about the ATS and its capability. Also, the vest he was wearing was enough for protection against small arms fire like revolvers and pistols but not against automatic weapons, the sounds of which could be heard by anyone standing outside the Taj hotel. You do not need be an expert to put 2 & 2 together to deduce that the vest Karakare was wearing was insufficient to protect against AK47s and automatic rifles that were being fired. But gasbags like you do not understand simple things and compensate this by by using abusive langauge on this board.
For one last time, try to moderate your language when you respond to my posts, if you cannot do that dont bother to respond. I am not interested in reading your abusive langauge which reflects on your poor upbringing and culture which I have no interest in knowing.
Nice to see Shivraj Patil go. I cannot see how that duffer Narayanan can continue as NSA? May be he is ‘No Strings Attached’ advisor?!!
After the encounter death of Karkare, it was only a matter of time. We need real practical men leading orgs like ATS; no more desk Jockeys please! Karkare had reduced ATS to ‘Aunty Terrorist Squad’ by doing Mada’s bidding thru Patil and going after Hindu groups. Finally he paid with his life by ‘misunderestimating’ the ‘real’ terrorists. Also, I get a sneaking feeling that all these ministers (Arjun, Shivraj, others) and police (Karkare) were buying up some ‘minority community’ insurance by explicitly not going after them!
@bari olu
sumne comment poorti odidele eno ondu nanna hesaru nodbittu bardeedira antha kanisotte.
parvagilla bidi.
matte helteeni keli, media report odbittu comment maadbedi!
Naanu media report odi comment maadiddeeni antha bardeediralla, naanu sattiro karkare avaru sattiroda reetiya mele athawa avaru sattiruvudu tamme muththalatana dinda antha nimmugala thara baridilla swamy! a.varu tamma kelsa maadabekaadre praana kalkondirodu, anthawaru tamma kelasada padavige sariyaadadavaro alvo antanoo nirdharisi baredilla naanu neevu haagu doddi buddi haage. sumne ardha ello odi bareebedri.
I havent commented on Mr.karkare or his duties on basis of news media anywhere. In fact i havent commented about how he worked or died. All i have said is dont look at news media and then say whether he was worthy of his posting or not, cos u dont know him. neither do i know him neither have i first hand info n hence I AM NOT PASSING an opinion of whether or not he was worthy of being ATS chief unlike urself and ur ilk. Also, again u r sayin that the news media said Karkare had prior info about these attacks .If he did and if the news media have this info let them publish this proof and then we will see.
Oh, BTW if u are interested, the first and foremost rule of Press reporting/journalism is that you are supposed to report just the news as is without adding your own interpretation/masala to it. And if you pay heed to news on TV/radio/newspapers, none of them follow this rule. They all add their own interpretations and hence their reports are incredible(in the sense that they cannot be trusted)! If u do not believe me, take 1 particular topic of ur interest, read about it in diff news sources, and then lets discuss cos i can assure u that u will find a dozen diff interpretations of the same point in diff sources!
Bariyode idre naanu media report odi comment maadirodu elli antha daya maadi torisi, naanu nanna tappannu tidkolluttene.
neevu helida haage, iddaddanna helidre yede hodkonthodranthe
Vinay,
Its better to take precautions than be sorry. You know that the terrorists have AK47’s and do you even know that the private security agencies cannot carry such kind of a weapons. Why do u think america has been able to ward off terror attacks, at the slighest hint they go and take all precautionary measures.
There is something known as intelligence wing which had clearly indicated activities of terrorists. Its better to deploy forces rather be sorry and its far better to deploy forces for a few days than wasting time in trying to create false cases under political pressure.
If the info is inaccurate so be it, you dont lose anything. Wat if the info is accurate??? You could have saved a few more lives.
Kannadiga:) :
You comment on my ‘upbringing and culture’ for using abusive language. I say to you that any person who rejoices at the death of the police top brass at a time of calamity, and calls him names, is surely of a gutter upbringing – probably rose up from the sewers.
Everyone knows that the police and ATS are ill-equipped, and that their bulletproof vests are not made to stop automatic machine guns. Even the commandos do not have equipment of the standard used by certain other countries. That does not give you an excuse to vilify a person who has done his bit, with all the restrictions, political interference, etc.
It is you who does not ‘understand simple things’ and tries to cover it up by using words like ‘gasbag’ which I guess, you copy-pasted from my posts here. For one last time, try to understand what I am talking about, else do not bother to reply. I am not interested in reading your vile accusations which reflect gutter-mentality.
People here are talking about the so called “intelligence” which had given credible info. How can these agencies be credible when the only thing they are good at is political intelligence? The clean up has to start from the IB, RAW, the state intelligence, terror squads etc and their connection with politics must be broken. The question is how?
Will the BJP take the lead in this direction by dumping Advani and promote Dr. Abdul Kalam as PM ? That could be a change we can look forward to …
Prajwaleshwaraaa,
Karkare gotakk andiddu yen aakashvaani inda gottaitaa ninge?? Did u not get to know through news or print media?? I know which are the ones which give authentic info and which are the ones which add masala. Ninna asambhaddavaada maatugalanna neene itko. I feel it unworthy to have a debate with you, because your comments lack direction.
I have a message to terrorists:
no matter what happens, no matter how much you try, you can’t beat us. You can’t knock out our spirit. You can’t stop us from coming back to work and school and college.
No matter what happens the spirit of Mumbai lives on. No matter what happens, Mumbai’s spirit cannot be crushed. What is this spirit some ask?
The spirit is that no matter what happens, no matter how severe floods are, no matter how much rain falls, no matter how many people lose their lives, you mourn for them and feel sympathy for them but you get back to work the next day.
No matter what happens, you get back to work and get back to work and get back to work and get back to work. If you’re struck down 1000 times you get back in those trains and buses and get back to work.
No matter what happens you just get back in those local trains and buses and keep going.
My dear Mumbaikars: show the terrorists they’ve failed. Ensure that the offices are full, ensure that the colleges are full, ensure that the schools are full-above all-ensure that the trains and buses are full to the brim. We have to show these bastards that they’ll never succeed in breaking our spirit-I want to see trains and buses and work places as crowded as before.
Show the Mumbai spirit….get struck down 1000 times and get back 1001 times to work.
That’s the Mumbai spirit!!
Proud mumbaikar
You have no other choice but to get back to work… you have to feed and cloth your near and dear ones. And don’t label this helplessness as “spirit”.
In fact the behaviour you describe is that of an insensitive one…albeit created and furthered by repeated blasts/attacks and political ineptness!
Of course the rest of India too is helpless and has the same “spirit”.
Proud Mumbaikar:
What is needed is not to get struck 1000 times and get back 1001 times, but to ensure that we stop getting struck anymore.
@bari olu
my commenting lacks direction…thank goodness!!! At least it doesnt lack common sense unlike in ur case, all ur comments lack even the slightest hint of human intelligence!
Finally nothing happens in our country. Things move on until next episode and we will continue to write blogs condemning each other, finding fault with each other, criticizing each other, quarrelling with each other and suffer unitedly. Jai Bharat!
Prajwal,
I know how common your common sense is :P
The British ‘Independent’ newspaper reports an AP feed
“We warned of Mumbai attacks, says US
“India was warned of a terrorist attack by US intelligence officials before the Mumbai massacre, it emerged today.
A senior official in the Bush administration said today they passed on information that terrorists appeared to be plotting a mostly water-borne attack on India’s financial capital.
One Indian official admitted it picked up intelligence in recent months that Pakistan-based terrorists were plotting attacks against Mumbai targets”
A public interest litigation has been filed by Adv. Praveen Verma at M.P Highcourt Of Jabalpur seeking formation of a committee of highly specilised & trained military/paramilitary/N.S.G/police officers to monitor &control live telecast of sensitive operations like hostage rescue missions,matters of internal security & when there is danger to lives on a REAL TIME BASIS i.e ‘As soon as it happens’
The aim being that live telecast gives all informatoin on real time basis to the terrorists & their masterminds who consoldate accordingly and new instructions given over satellite phones while our commandos are unaware of strenght & location of terrorists & hostages
It has been asked that a committee of technical prersons be formed instead of govt. machinery,I.A.S officers or ministers who have no knowledge,technical expertise or experience what so ever in these matter & have utterly failed in tackling such situation endangering lives. It is asked that such committee would immediately impose a time delay of 2-3 hours in instant live telecast of such sensitive operations to aviod any advantage to the terrorist .
The instant live shots/video coverage with ZOOM CLOSEUP or strategic LOCATION OF COMMANDOS,HIGHLIGHTED PROCEDURAL DETAILS i.e when & how many N.S.G commandos are there, specific detailsof COMMANDOS DROPPING VIA HELICOPTER AS SHOWN IN THE ‘MUMBAI TERROR ATTACKS’ has given enormous advantage to the terrorists.
“THIS HAS TO STOP.YOUR ANY HELP IS SOLICITED IN HIGHLIGHTING THIS SENSITIVE & URGENT MATTER.HELP,SUPPORT & ADVERTISE THIS CAUSE TO BUILD A PUBLIC APPEAL”