The results of the assembly elections have turned conventional wisdom on its head. The BJP has retained Madhya Pradesh comfortably and Chhatisgarh by a small margin. But the Congress has surprised the pundits by its better-than-expected showing in Delhi, Rajasthan and Mizoram.
At one level, the poll results show how hot-button issues like terrorism influenced the outcome. MP went to the poll on the morning after the Bombay attack and Delhi a couple of days later, and the differing verdicts in both States indicate that there is no common strand to detect.
At another level, issues like inflation, price rise, Amarnath shrine, Orissa church attacks seem to have had little or no national resonance. At least not a durable one.
BSP, which everybody said eats into the Congress vote, seems to have actually eaten into the BJP vote. In Delhi, the urban-educated seem to have backed the Congress, while the poor plumped for the BJP. If NREGA clicked in one State for the Congress, why not in the others?
“Anti-incumbency”, the ultimate escape route, too is closed. Shiela Dikshit has won a third term while accusing the BJP of changing three chief ministers during its tenure, while Shivraj Chauhan has won a second term despite the BJP changing three chief ministers during its tenure. If Dikshit’s image carried the day in Delhi, Vasundhara Raje Scindia came up short in spite of it in Rajasthan.
The long and short of all this is what every mature poll-watcher knows: that “the wise Indian voter” has various different ways of making up her mind in different States, and it is foolish to decipher by watching television or reading the papers. What is also becoming clear is that neither BJP or Congress (in alphabetical order) have the steam to come to power on their own at the Centre.
All of which makes the general elections next year very interesting, although as the BJP found out in 2004, it is suicidal to count your general election chickens after the assembly election eggs are hatched.
So, who do you think will win the big one?
churumuri 
You asked for it!!! Were you expecting 81% opinion in favour of NDA? Most certainly not. Right now, the priority is to combat terrorism. Any day, NDA is a better bet for that than the effate UPA with its baggage of Dr.Manmohan “timid” Singh.
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hmm.. I think elections will be very fought fiercly next time.Everyone seem to have just been thinking of NDA and UPA.but look other side.There is a third front growing like anything.
firstly it was mighty mayawathi,later commies and now Jayalalitha and TDP.And every party has a potential to win atleast 20 seats on their own.
I think its a possibility that these parties can win over more than 100-130 seats.
If that happens that will be disastrous.
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no mention of arguably the hero of the day, Raman Singh? Even from BJP stable, can’t think of a leader who defeated (that too twice) the three Cs. Congress, Communists (ala) Naxals and Christian missionaries.
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first of all, congress’ delhi victory was a hollow one considering that it was a referrendum to delhi cm sheila dixit not to the nehru-gandhi clan. these votes will vaporise in the upcoming lok sabha elections, since there will be no sheila factor.
in rajasthan the bjp govt was facing anti incumbency, and also infighting. even so, congress failed to secure a simple majority. if bjp gets its house in order, congis will go poof in raj.
interestingly , the psec media doesn’t mention the most resounding victory, that of BJP in MAdhya Pradesh.
as for the LS polls, THE BJP WILL WIN WITH A THUMPING MAJORITY
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In Delhi, the urban-educated seem to have backed the Congress
Educated Indians? That is a joke, right?
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Let the Scindias stop anglicising their name and call themselves Sindhyas.
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http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Its-Indias-tradition-to-welcome-all-Dikshit/312200/
“New Delhi, May 20: In the backdrop of the issue of illegal Bangladeshi migrants gaining prominence following the Jaipur serial blasts, Delhi Chief Minister Sheila Dikshit said it is the tradition of India to welcome all those who come here. ”
======================
Congress may win, but there are blatant illegality, surrender of national interest, pushing country to harms way….
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BJP if voted to power will bring in a dangerous conction of upper caste religious fundamentalism. They are political untouchables with few allies. The pluralistic indian populace will reject BJP. Other than this talk of combating terror BJP has no proper economic or social policy in place. It was during BJP’s tenure we had Akshardam, Gujrat carnage, Parliament attack. BJP does not have leaders of the stature of Chidambaram, Pranab Mukerjee, Manmohan, Kamalnath. They have an 81 year old fundamentalist Advani who is trying to build a new image as a moderate. India needs youth not a person with one feet in the grave. Second in command to this old man is the Genocide specialist Modi who think she has brought prosperity to Gujarat and most BJP supporters beleieve in this lies. Gujarat was always prosperous (I mean the 35% upper caste there).
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Kaustuv
.
BJP IS THE CLEAR LOSER IN THESE FIVE ASSEMBLY ELECTIONS. HERE IS A FACTUAL ANALYSIS
BJP did not gain in any of the five states that went to election
In Chattisgarsh, BJP managed to retain its existing numbers of seats and vote share. No gain here.
In Delhi, BJP lost badly, they were unable to unseat Congress even after 10 years.
In Rajasthan , BJP lost 70 seats and vote share also fell badly.
In Madhya Pradesh BJP lost 35 seats and also lost 5% vote share
In Mizoram, BJP did not dare to contest. Or if they did, they were dumped by the voters.
Clearly, it is a pointer to things to come. in the run up to the lok sabha polls, BJP peaked too early. Congress is peaking just in time.
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Simple>>In Rajasthan , BJP lost 70 seats and vote share also fell badly.
Which country, or world you live? Cong is yet to get majority.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Shourie&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#q=Shourie&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f&st=week
The real danger facing India- Jehadi terrorism. Our economy, country is the real target while people like Humpa are more interested in dividing Hindus along caste and rally minorities religiously.
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Tathagata
Of course cong did not get majority in rajasthan. But cong gained, but in terms of seats and vote share
BJP lost badly in terms of vote share and seats…a downhill…
all five states BJP showed signs of decline in vote share and number of seats.
sad?
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@ humpa jihadi
“BJP if voted to power will bring in a dangerous conction of upper caste religious fundamentalism.”
Communal harmony was much greater during the NDA rule than its now during the UPA’s. today communal strife has reached every part of the country.
“They are political untouchables with few allies.”
indian “secular” parties are the most greedy, selfish, opportunistic scum on the planet. if the BJP performs they will no doubt join the NDA. dont forget your karuna was in the NDA and didn’ leave even after the gujarat riots.
“The pluralistic indian populace will reject BJP.”
you mean “jihadis have the first right to india’s resources” caucus. thank god they are a minority.
“Other than this talk of combating terror BJP has no proper economic or social policy in place.”
please look at gujarat.
“It was during BJP’s tenure we had Akshardam, Gujrat carnage, Parliament attack.”
and we also had convictions but your jihadi upa refuses to hang them!
“BJP does not have leaders of the stature of Chidambaram, Pranab Mukerjee, Manmohan, Kamalnath.”
bjp has arun jaitley, modi, sushma swaraj, etc. the leaders you’ve mentioned are good only for licking sonia ch00t
“They have an 81 year old fundamentalist Advani who is trying to build a new image as a moderate.”
says who?
“India needs youth not a person with one feet in the grave.”
that the youth will decide, not you
“Second in command to this old man is the Genocide specialist Modi who think she has brought prosperity to Gujarat and most BJP supporters beleieve in this lies. Gujarat was always prosperous (I mean the 35% upper caste there).”
Modi was not involved in the riots. google nanavati commission report.
Gujarat is developing at breakneck speed. ur denying that doesn’t make it untrue.
and, it has nothing to do with upper caste. modi himself is lower caste, yet he rules the heart of every hindu
vande mataram!
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Simple: Go and check facts yourself whether BJP lost 70 seats less in Rajasthan. Will you? Their voteshare is within 1% of Cong.
——————-
Those who are interested about Jehad in South Asia must read “Partisans of Allah, Jehad in South Asia” by Jalal to understand how India have been facing Jehad since last 4-5 centuries.
Politicians looking for Muslim Vote often rationalize Jehad as if it started after BJP came into being. There were no BJP when Wahiullah invited Abdali to invade India to destroy infidel Hindus.
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Simple – I’ll share a little secret with you.
The longer Congress stays in power, it will be faced with only two choices.
1. Either NOT act as the BJP would like (it) to act.
* You notice this push from liberal thugs already, post election results. They are saying terror is not an “all-consuming” issue. It’s only a “part” of what voters worry about. Terror is ipso facto, not important. This policy can only lead to more and not less terror. How much more patience will voters have?
2. Or ACT as the BJP would want (it) to act.
* If the Congress chooses this method, then Congress can remain in power. We won’t even need the BJP….not for some time at least.
So, Simple, Hindutva folks don’t really mind a Congress win also, but then, let’s see :)
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Thathaghata
Go to the election commission website and you will see Congress has got 4% more vote share than BJP in rajasthan. what a downslide for a party which got a thumping majority last time. they had 140 odd seats last time, this time BJP has 70 odd seats. is that a loss or a gain? even a nursery kid will tell you its a loss.
go back to nursery sir.
simply accept the truth. BJP lost BADLY in rajasthan. whether congress won majority or not, CONGRESS HAS GAINED BOTH IN TERMS OF VOTE SHARE AND SEATS.
WHere as in Karnataka, you have a funny situation, where BJP gets LESSER VOTE SHARE (about 3 lac votes less than congress) but still sits in govt.
In rajasthan BJP is lesser than cong in vote share and seats.
in karnataka Congress is greater than BJP on vote share, but less on seats.
Palahalli,
Congress captured JeM leader Maulana Massod Azhar.
BJP freed him.
In turn Masood Azhar masterminded Mumbai attacks.
Congress now ensured that Massod Azhar is under house arrest
Congress will eventually get him extradited.
BJP may again free him.
Its laughable BJP says cong is soft on terror.
Terror poll plank backfired on BJP..they tried to make political harvest out of Mumbai killings…people felt disgusted with this cheap vote bank politics and showed them the door.
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Enough of democracy. We should make Rahul the King of India. Rahul Maharaj ki Jai.
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Hey Simple… Wrong Facts… you got your facts wrong allover again!!!!
Here is a Simple calculation for you… hope you will be able to comprehend the numbers….
Total Seats won by BJP in five states :
Chattisgarh … 49
Delhi … 23
Rajasthan … 78
M P … 142
Total … 292
Total seats won by CONgress in five states:
Chattisgarh … 38
Delhi … 42
Rajasthan … 96
M P … 71
Mizoram … 32
Total … 279
So even after contesting in 5 states unlike BJP which only contested in 4, CONgress managed to get 13 seats less than BJP.
And you talk about loss of vote share….
Dude… we know you are wrong facts… but do you have to scream it loud??
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Simple AKA Wrong Facts… think about these things…
1. BJP freed the terrorist in exchange of 200 + Indian citizens. And if you can stretch your memory back till then, you will also know how Burkha Dutt and gang brought all the relatives of the kidnapped victims to PM’s house to create a racket.
2. Dude, BJP government managed to get a capital punishment on Afzal Guru. Congress is treating him like royalty…
3. Congress had advance intelligence information on the terrorist strikes, specifically on Taj and Oberoi. But what was it doing? Keeping the ATS busy hunting down the Sadhvi and Lt.Col. Why? Because, the lady whose feet the congies lick, wanted to lick the muslims’ backside for votes.
Want more WRONG FACT????
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Simple – Like I said, Hindutva folks are fine with the Congress as long as it acts like the BJP would want to act.
Your childish defense of the Congress as “hard-line” anti-terror party is immaterial.
Yes, the BJP was very wrong in exchanging over 150 hostages for three terrorists. Please explain how the Congress would have dealt with this situation?
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Communist cum Communalist
I was expecting your message.
First of all, i NEVER NEVER NEVER said Cong got more seats than BJP in all five states put together!
So you as usual have got your facts VERY WRONG.
I just said that in each state BJP has lost vote share and seats COMPARED TO LAST ELECTION>
The moot point is the DECLINE OF BJP has begun
Before this elections BJP had got 375 seats in those five states…now it has dwindled to 290..A RATHER MISERABLE PERFORMANCE.
Before this elections Congress had got under 200 seats in those five seats..now it has RISEN to a FANTASTIC 279…
CLEARLY CONG IS CATCHING UP ON BJP..AND BY THE TIME LOKH SABHA POLLS ARE DUE, CONG WOULD HAVE BEATEN BJP BLACK AND BLUE.
as far as your terrorism message
1. you say BJP freed the terrorist in exchange of 200 plus indians. which means BJP NEGOTIATED……but CONGRESS DID NOT NEGOTIATE with those terrorists in TAJ. THE SHOT THEM DOWN LIKE DOGS>
That is the difference betweeen cong and bjp…a weak bjp surrenders tamely to terrorists..it weakly negotiates..but CONG IS TUFF> it knocks the pants out of terrorists…CONG MANAGED TO KILL ALL THE TERRORISTS …and captured one. that is the difference.
CONG TOOK HARSH MEASURES whether it was black thunder of bluestar or anything else…..
2. the terrorists came through the gujarat side of india…gujarat govt had prior information..yet they kept quiet. GUJARAT GOVT was BUSY DEMOLISHING TEMPLES WHILE TERRORISTS WEREE ENTERING GUJARAT WATERS>>>SHAME!
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ALL politicians, cutting across ALL party lines, whether BJP, or Congress, or regional parties, ALL are scum of the worst kind. There may be a 0.05% exception, but the majority are huge bloodsuckers and the world will be a better place without them.
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Simple how can u compare Kandahar hijack and attack on Taj? Do u think NSG commandos would have freed hostages in that aeroplane? I think it would have been risky.
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You insanely stupid fella simple. Kandhar happened outside Indian soil. What do u think, Congress would have done?? Attack Afghanistan and Taliban and get all 200 passengers killed in turn by the terrorists. It shouldnt be much of an issue to blow the plane anyways.If all 200 got killed along with terrorists then you would have cried foul saying BJP couldnt protect Indian citizens. Bull shit.
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Ha ha! I think Simple is a supporter the Congress truly fears :)
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“ALL politicians, cutting across ALL party lines, whether BJP, or Congress, or regional parties, ALL are scum of the worst kind. There may be a 0.05% exception, but the majority are huge bloodsuckers and the world will be a better place without them.”
cant say about politicians, but the world will be a better place without fatalists like you!
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Simple AKA WrongFacts…
If you are comparing the terrorist situation in Kandahar to the terrorist situation in India, I pity you. Truly pity you.
And look at another gem from you… Terrorists came from Gujarat side therefore Gujarat government is responsible….
I mean, you really think before you type these kinds of inanities???
Forget about the terrorism part for the time being.
Let us look at the current elections.
According to you:
WHere as in Karnataka, you have a funny situation, where BJP gets LESSER VOTE SHARE (about 3 lac votes less than congress) but still sits in govt.
So the fact is..
BJP has more number of seats in four states put together and still lost two states. Does this makes sense?? No, right. Same way your comment on Karnataka and CONgress loss.
Wrongfacts… you know what? A magazine run by the very famous licker of CONgies back Vinod Mehta says in its latest issue that more number of people would vote for BJP than for CONgress in the coming elections.
And as a true BJP supporter, let me tell you this. I appreciate Shiela Dixit for the kind of work she has done in Delhi and congratulate her. And you know what? It is the same Sheila Dixit which Sonia was trying to cut to size because she was becoming too popular in Delhi.
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Kaustuv:
And the world will be even better if you hang yourself from the nearest lamppost. If you find it tough to do that, try electrocution. But the easiest way would be to make a trip to TSP (Terrorist State of Pakistan), get training, tie a bomb to yourself and charge into the house of one of your beloved politicians. As they say, that’ll be “two birds with one stone”.
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@vinay
i think you misunderstood me
i know that politicians are accountable, but whats to be gained by blaming them.
instead we should excercise our democratic right to vote and kick out politicians who dont take seriously india’s national integrity.
this is not the time for defeatism and that’s what i meant by “fatalism”.
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Kaustav:
Indeed, we need to vote, especially the educated class. No arguing with that. Unfortunately I find very few candidates who actually deserve my vote, and this cuts across party lines.
Educated people here do not judge an issue based on the merit of a particular case. Their blind following of party X or party Y puts them in the same boat as illiterate villagers who vote for party X just because his father and uncle do so.
I personally, have seen nothing that makes me believe that one party is better than the other. If one says: “Oh, Congress is responsible for all terrorism coz’ they’re soft on terror”, I can say, “BJP was responsible for Kandahar, Parliament attack, Akshardham, Kargil”. On the other hand, if one says: “Congress has never participated in communal riots”, I can say “Congress committed worse murder in 1984 than BJP has done in its entire history”.
Both parties are infested with criminals, thugs and Goondas. I observe on this forum, however, several people overlook or gloss over any chicanery or rascaldom perpetrated by the party which THEY support. That is what I was trying to point out..
In my personal opinion, we (the electorate) need to vote for the ‘individual’ and not the party. Vote for the best candidate among those who are contesting…
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Chintaka, a poisonous mix of Communalist and Communist
Make up your mind. Are you a rabid rightist or a dogmatic leftist. your confusion is very clear in your mail.
First of all, i was comparing the assembly results of the five states which went to elections. Combined, BJP has seen a drop of over 100 seats, while congress has seen an upswing. that is the key message. bjp is losing ground, congress is gaining ground
And for your information, the outlook survey was carried out in only five metros, the survey sample was 500. Wow. 500. really very very very representative of whole of india.
Goes really to prove that outlook and vinod mehta is a stooge of the sangh parivar.
Good that you accept that congress cm in delhi is doing good work. glad you woke up to reality and came around to my view.
Terrorism is not just a problem that centre has to deal with. Every citizen has to be vigilant and responislbe. State govt. too cannot escape laxity on its part. If gujarat and rajasthan were bombed a few months back, both state and central govts have to be blamed equally. is it so difficult to understand this much for you?
BJP does not have any sterling record whilst dealing with terrorists. They protected 200 citiizens on the plane, but the released terrorists are taking 2000 indian lives everyday. this is what is a penny wise pound foolish policy.
Soft, weak willing to negotiate – that is BJPs style
Harsh, strong and not willnig to negotiate..that is Cong style..operation black thunder, operatioon blue star, LTTE attack in sri lanka, then the recent taj attack…in all these cases cong has come out with flying colorus..
THERE IS NOT A SINGLE INSTANCE TO PROVE THAT BJP HAS BEEN TOUGH ON TERRORISTS…WHILE THERE ARE MORE THAN DOZENS OF EXAMPLE TO PROVE CONGRESS TOUGH STANCE.
THE FACT IS YOU HAVE BEEN SYSTEMATICALLY BRAINWASHED into believing that bjp is best to tackle terror, while their track record is just the opposite.
grow up.
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Also,, while our temple of democracy , parliament was attacked, cong never made an political capital out of it.
can you imagine?
our ex home mnister was sleeping when extremists where busy attacking our temple.
A shivraj patil resigns owning moral responsiblity.
While A advani stuck to his chair.
He preferred power at any cost. rather than give up chair taking responsiblity.
Cong CM and Deputy CM resigned in Mumbai after mumbai attack
Rajasthan CM stuck to her chair after jaipure bombs
Gujarat CM stuck to his chair after ahmedabad and surat blasts.
that in essence is the difference between cong and bjp.
BJP’s naked lust for power is evident.
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Simple – You made some good points in your former post. Please don’t ruin them by repeating the nonesense in your latter one.
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Simple ,
I understand your infatuation to congress. Are u in someway related to the mainos?? Or are u hitting on someone from maino family?? :P Dude under BJP government you didnt see bomb blasts every month, the way its happening today.
>>Rajasthan CM stuck to her chair after jaipure bombs
>>Gujarat CM stuck to his chair after ahmedabad and surat blasts.
Why should they resign?? There was no prior information passed from the central government in either case.
WTF is your Congress lame duck PM doing? Why hasnt he resigned??
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Wrong Facts.. AKA Simple… you dont have to get worked up dude… as usual, you are getting your facts wrong and in the process getting confused as hell…
Poor you… you know what? stick to wrong facts… I will not poke fun at you atleast… like name, like postings… simple?? Nah… doesnt suit you well dude…
When Rajeev won on the sympathy wave after the assassination of his mother, his party got over 400 seats in the lok sabha elections…and look at where the party is now headed by his wife… should we hold it against the Congress??
And when the same outlook magazine says BJP is bad without even conducting a survey, you are thril Do you read outlook? And you still call Outlook and Vinod Mehta stooge of Sangh Parivar??? LOL Rolled in laughter man.. Which part of the world do you live??? Like an ostrich, with hand buried in sand??? Wake up man.. if in this whole country there is one chamcha of Sonia who ranks very high, it must be Vinod Mehta. Dont get your facts so wrong man….
I have told about Kandahar N number of times earlier..If you still want to pick points on it, god bless you…. go ahead… 200 lives were precious at that point of time..
And Shivaraj Patil resigned on moral grounds?? Again LOL.. dude from where do you get this hare brained ideas?? I mean, once you post it and re read this stuff, dont you feel a little sorry for your grasp of things happening around you???
Shivaraj resigning on moral grounds, my foot. He became a hot potato for Congress… he and the other joker Deshmukh. So they were kicked out….
By the way, does it take four days for a person to find out that he has morality??? That is the number of days it took for Shivraj patil to get sacked…
And incidentally, the king in waiting, Rahul, according to a media report, was drinking and dancing with babes at his friend’s wedding party in delhi when the shoot out took place.. or may be a day after that….
Coming from Congress culture, what else can we expect from this dimwit?
Dude… seriously apply for Manish Tiwari’s post…. you will be a shoo-in… you will be in a much better position to suck up to Sonia and Rahul….
All the very best….
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Bari Olu
Are you in some ways related to Rajnath Singh, the president of the BJP? you simply to blindly believe all the trash that is churned out by his party.
Palahalli
Pray tell me what nonense did I post
Chintaka, an adulterous mix of coummnist cum communalist.
Of course Shivraj Patil was kicked out. Of course deshmukh was kicked out. But Advani, the then sleeping home minister of india wasn’t kicked out inspite of the parilament attack. He continued to stick to his chair, inspite of the dastardly attack on our indian temple of democracy.
Narendra Modi wasnt kicked out inspite of Akshardham temple attack…
That in essence, the difference between BJP and Congress. Congress high command kicks out non achievers, while BJP high command encourages non achievers by asking them to stick to their chair.
Like I told you it is not just the responisble of the central govt to combat terrorism. State govts cannot run away without any responsibility. Both Rajasthan and Gujrat state govts were as incompetent as central govt in not being able to reign in the terrorists.
ANd Chintaka, you should apply for BJP’s national spokesperson, instead of that totally listless guy Prakash Javedakar. You may do better in defending all the undefendable acts of BJP.
And by the way, if Rahul is the king in waiting, there are other two GANDHIS in BJP, who are waiting to become ministers, Madam Maneka and her son Varun.
Of course, you have defended BJP’s meek surrender to terrorists in the Kandhar attack a million times. BUt that doesn’t alter the fundamental truth. BJP released him, and today Maulana Masood Azhar is conspiring against India.
when will you realise that WE SHOULD NOT NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS THAT IS A TRULY NATIONALISTIC STAND.
BJP has repeatedly exposed its real face, by willing to meekly surrender.
yea, vinod mehta was chamcha of Sonia Gandhi. Today he has become a turncoat. He is a stooge of the Sangh Parivar today.
Who knows, tomorrow you too may change. You may become the first admirer of the Congress party. I can see the direction of the change, you have already admired Cong CM of Delhi.
Congratulations.Welcome to Congress philosophy.
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Poor Poor Simple Simon….
Boy.. do you have some originality left?? Or like all Congressis you believe that orignality is a sin?? I am sure, parroting what the Madam says is a sureshot entry into bigger things for you guys…????
Look at your first posting, you proudly say Shivraj Patil and Deshmukh resigned after owing moral responsibility… now you say they were kicked out… dude… there is something called consistency… or do you believe the only consistency which matters to you is licking the ……you know it, do I have to say it????
Do you read newspapers… you in touch with what is happening around our country??? If you do, then you will probably be aware that Gujarat Government’s proposal for a tougher law on terror was sent back by the Congies multiple times. This despite the fact that Gujarat legislature had passed it with a thumping majority….Do you get what I am trying to say???
And it was this same set of fools from Congress who proclaimed that the country does not need any tougher laws.. look what happened? Afzal Guru is still enjoying his bakrid ki biryanis and the poor people are getting slaughtered in the streets….
And what crap you talk man??? Did the terrorists land in Gujarat? Did they come thru Gujarat??? They took the sea route to Mumbai. And if you know the sea routes are guarded by the navy, the coast guards. Both of them come under the Central Government direction. I hope this much is clear to you. Then how in the world is Gujarat government is responsible…. may be some skewed up, warped logic of yours in the deep corners of pot infested mind is thinking such inanities… keep off the pot for a few days… may be sanity will come back to you….
In any case, your postings offer a lot of humourous relief.. me and my colleagues have a hearty laugh reading your postings… if not for anything, to keep us in good humour, please post such lovely messages.
And by the way, Prakash Javadekar and BJP spokesperson etc… dont copy so much dude…..
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You dim wit simple, its sad that you cant understand such SIMPLE stuff.
Dont harp on kandahar if you dont have a solution. Shivaraj Patil was just a madam loyalist and all the decisions have to go through Madamma. So doesnt your madamma also deserve to be kicked out?? Shivraj and Deshmukh are just scape goats. Its a shame that you lick asses of such ppl who cant even speak impromptu.
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NDA. PERIOD
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Bari Olu
Stop personalising this discussion. Calling me dimwit, doesn’t necessarily make me dimwit. Use facts, logic and the power of reasoning to make an impact.
Well, if I should not harp on Kandhar and the numerous terrorists attacks during NDA period, then you too should shut your loud gob. don’t harp on terror strikes now, if you too don’t have a solution.
Shivraj and Deshmukh may be scapegoats. at least congress has accountable scapegoats, while BJP has none. They continued to sleep when the nation burnt, yet nobody resigned on moral grounds, nobody was kicked out, nobody was made a scapegoat.
Shame!
Chintaka, an undigestable, uholy union of Communist and Communalist,
Till today I have believed that you were a victim of brainwashing. But now i believe otherwise. You need a brain to be brainwashed. Clearly this vital organ is missing in your body.
Boy, why do you get so ruffled easily? Truth is like hagalkai. too yucky for your tongue. but good for health. So please swallow the following truths, it will improve your health, instead of going berserk and throwing wild darts at me, none of which even so much as touch me.
1) Truth is always inbetween. Shivraj and Deshmukh were kicked out because the Central govt. owned moral responsibility. You see, it is a bit of both. kicking out and owing moral responsibility. Sadly, your fascist mind cannot see this much. There is no contradiction in what i said. If Central govt. did not own moral responsiblity, can the three ministers have been asked to leave?
use your brain. sorry, i forget. you don’t possess it.
2) Why did the then dozing home minister continue to slumber in his home ministerial chair, when numerous terror strikes happened? Neither did he resign, nor was he made a scapegoat, nor was he kicked out. Shame! It is just empty rhetoric. NO wonder they were booted out of power in 2004
3) YOu never ever repled why Modi govt demolished 200 temples, but did not touch even one mosque or church.
4) I have told you a hundred times, handling terror is NOT JUST THE CENTRAL GOVT. RESPONSIBILITY. EVERYBODY HAS TO CHIP IN, each one of us, the state govt, too cannot evade responsibility. in this sense, bjp state govts failed utterly and bitterly in nabbing terrorists. SO stop giving me the same stale shit that state govt has zero responsibility.
5) What tough laws in gujarat? even such tough laws did not prevent terror strikes in gujarat. Such tough laws did not prevent numerous terror strikes during a hopeless NDA regime. so your gujarat govt being tough on terror — should find its way to the great comedy show.
6) Afzal Guru will eventually, definitely be hanged. You cannot jump queues. but knowing you, i am sure you jump queues, everywhere. In theatres, in airports, bustands, everywhere. Congress follows the law. The terrorists/killers of indira gandhi were hanged, the killers of Rajiv met their due fate. The killers of beant singh met their due fate. The coimbatore bomb blasts killers and the mumbai bomb blasts killers have been given the harshest sentences.
7) tough laws by gujart govt? hahaha. nobody had teh balls (like Congress had) to order operation blustar, hound them out and flush them out. nobody had the guts except congress, under P Chidambaram to successfuly operate Operation Black thunder and merciless kill militants.
8) I am glad i am providing good laughs for you and your colleagues.
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Simple Simon… rant and rave…as much as you want…still you get the facts wrong!!!! Isnt that why you were calling yourself WrongFact earlier…(May be the only thing you got right in your entire messaging history!!!)
Yes. You do provide us a good laugh… like a joker does in the circus….and thanks for that….your current posting too did evoke a hearty laughter at office…
Dude… dont get me wrong… are you like this always or only when it comes to defending your masters you become illogical????
Had Shivraj Patil & Vilasrao Deshmukh resigned the day the attacks happened… you could have atleast defended them… four days after the attack? Does the moral pangs hit so lately?? May be your madam was digging quite deep into her moralless heart to see if there was any iota of morality there… she perhaps found it four days later and decided to kick them out…. and you are defending it… poor you.. but then what can be expected of lickers in any case????
Right???
Relax. Read contemporary history… and you will know what kind of stupidities you are posting here….
All the very best…
(Hey, dont stop your messages… we still need a joker around to keep us in good humour!!!)
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Simple – There is a problem in your thought process. Let me explain with a question;
Was the Congress “strong” because it imposed emergency?
Or
Was Congress “strong” because of 1971?
Or
Was Congress “strong” because of a lack of follow-up wrt 1971?
May I propose the above model to guage strength?
If you cite Punjab and Blue Star and the rest, I will ask you, “why were they weak enough to play with Bhindranwale and use him like Dr.Strangelove used Frankenstein?
If you cite Lanka and the rest, I will ask you, “why was the LTTE trained in India by the Congress in the first place? Why were they weak in not resisting it, then and there?”
Simple, you are right in questioning the BJP’s “hard” stance in itself, however, not against the record of the Congress.
The politics of resignations are just that, politics. Would you have been happy if Advani had resigned? And why should he have resigned? Did he ignore early warnings about an attack? Was he criminally careless?
The reason why one would expect people like Patil to go should be based on more serious factors;
1. Attitude and 2. Follow-Up action. (Please test people against these two parameters)
And let me remind you; Patil would have still been amidst us if it were not for the public outcry. He had his uses. Amongst others, his quality of submission to Il Duce is hard to come by even within the Congress.
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SIMPLE,
I laud your logical reasoning. :P
>>Well, if I should not harp on Kandhar and the numerous terrorists attacks during NDA period, then you too should shut your loud gob.
Of course I will shout because of the regularity of the bomb blasts nowadays. And you should get your facts right on kandahar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Airlines_Flight_814
>> don’t harp on terror strikes now, if you too don’t have a solution.
I am afraid we are not discussing solutions here. and FYI congress has no new solution, its goin back on its words and bringing back a new law similar to POTA.
>>Shivraj and Deshmukh may be scapegoats. at least congress has accountable scapegoats.
Wow accountable scapegoats, beautiful terminology. An accountable person wont change his dress thrice in times of crisis nor will one take RGV for tour of terror places.
>>They continued to sleep when the nation burnt, yet nobody resigned on moral grounds, nobody was kicked out, nobody was made a scapegoat.
Shivaraj has been sleeping for quite a while. Why didnt he resign when the first blasts happened?? See resignation will not get anything. Stern action is important, which UPA hasnt been doing. Replace chela number 1 by chela number 2, what difference it makes. Now that its election time and there is huge public outcry, they have no other go but to take action.
Dont keep harping on Operation bluestar. Theres no leader in congress today of Indira gandhis stature. How stupid of u to compare Indira to her dumb daughter-in-law.
>> I have told you a hundred times, handling terror is NOT JUST THE CENTRAL GOVT. RESPONSIBILITY. EVERYBODY HAS TO CHIP IN,
What bull shit is this??? If the government gives its citizens AK47s they can defend themselves. Else its the duty of the govt to protect us.
Neenenadru sonia akkana balgai bhanta aagidre ello irtidde. Bucket hidyo vidyena you have mastered well.
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Chintaka, a near extinct species of Communalist cum Communist.
I notice that you have reduced yourself to spewing venom, instead of objectively answering all the eight points that i had raised meticulously.
You call me licking my masters. you call me all sorts of names. But i won’t fall to your levels. i rather reply with dignity. Like the congress party.
And true to those who give you, your bread and butter (the BJP), you can abuse me with a shrill pitch. It won’t make a dime of a difference.
The whole world can see that you did not reply to my eight points. Like a true coward, you instead starting abusing me because you know deep within your heart, all my facts are right and yours are always wrong.
Yes, Shivraj and other ministers resigned after four days. But the ex-dozing home minister of India, did not resign even after four days, four weeks or four months or four years.
That in essence is the difference between a diginified congress and the bjp.
Sonia and no morals? Pray tell me which govt. position did she hold in the past five years
She did not take up PM post
SHe resigned from the National Trust.
She did not make her son a minister
Contrast this to what BJP did!
THey made a member of the Gandhi family, a minister!
here, congress did not have a single gandhi family minister in UPA GOVT. and your bjp actually made one from a gandhi clan a minister…that too a party which is vehemently opposed to dynastic rule, especially that of the Gandhi family.
Truth is, BJP became like the congress long back. all evils of congress has been rubbed off on BJP. yet, you refuse to see the point. answer me like a true gentleman, instead of cowardly heaping abuses on me.
I understand you cannot criticize the bjp. after all, they provide you your bread and butter.
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Palahalli.
No party is perfect. I answered SPECIFICALLY ONLY TO the points raised by your knicker comrade Mr. Chintaka.
1. Emergency as a terrible thing to happen to India. I am DEFINITELY NOT A supporter of emergency of the other acts of Indira Gandhi.
there is a difference between Indira and Sonia.
2. Indira may have created Bhindranwale. But she never asked Bhindranwale to kill innocents. When he started terrorising innocent people, Indira promptly took action. Surely, it required guts to storm a temple!
2. I agree there were several mistakes committed by congress during Indira and Rajeev. But that still not obfuscate the point that they took on the terrorists with iron hands. Punjab terrorism was eliminated because of congress, come on, the whole world knows it. give the congress its due.
3. Precisely because Congress was tough on the terrorists , did the extremists assasinate them. if congresss was soft on these terrorists, why would they kill them? Poor logic on part of your knicker comrade Chintaka
4. Don’t airily dismiss the politics of resignation as just politics of resignation. While you bay for Shivraj patils blood, i notice you have a soft corner for advani, who did nothing when a monument much more important than Taj, it is called the parliament was attacked.
5. If he doesn’t resign, he is damned, if he resigns also he is damned.
But on the other hand, no harsh words for ex home minister?
6. What attitude and folow up action are you talking about? Attitude is not resorting to rhetoric at the drop of a hat. Shrill, high pitch communication, which the BJP is so prone to, is also is not the right attitude. NO wonder, it did not pay them in the recent assembly elections, where they lost in rajasthan, delhi, lost seats in MP and lost vote share in chattisgarh
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Bari Olu
1. What facts about Kandahar? Escorting them with tea and coffee in a plane? And worse, the ex dozing home minister of INdia, actually claimed he did not know that Jaswant Singh was escorting the terrorists!
Man, this is some joke! the home minister of india, does not even know whats happening! was he in control at all? did he deserve to be in control? did vajpayee not trust him enuff to tell him that terrorists were being escorted?
what sort of a lame duck home minister did we have? as bad as Shivraj Patil I guess
2. You were the one who told me not to talk if i did not have a solution. So i threw your medicine back into your mouth.
3. I certainly did not support Deshmukh taking RGV on a terror tour.I dont support Patil changing dress four time. I protest against both the actions. I condemn them severely.
4. Glad you agreed Indira was in a different league and she was tough on terror. Tell that to your knicker comrade Mr. Chintaka. Did you say Sonia is a dumb daughter in law?| Dumb daughter in laws dont win elections and head the most powerful coaltion in the largest democracy. Dumb ladies don’t become one of the worlds most powerful women. she may not be an eloquent speaker, but don’t underestimate her other abilities.
5. So you have no responsibility to be on guard? if you see a suspicious character lurking around with heavy bombs, won’t you, won;’t you informthe police? or will yoiu wait till the central govt. comes into thepicture?
Law and order , for your dumb information, is under state. State govt. cannot escape responsibility of protecting its citizens
6. And as for your last comment, if you accuse me of being a chamcha of congress, i can say the same things about you vis a vis the BJP. you dare not say a word against the BJP, coz you are a servile human.
Unquestioning servility to the sangh parivar is your motto.
Come on, use your brain for some independent thinking. be original.
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SIMBLE saaku self goal hodkondiddu, half time aaytu swalpa rest togo :)
>> Truth is, BJP became like the congress long back. all evils of congress has been rubbed off on BJP. yet, you refuse to see the point. answer me like a true gentleman, instead of cowardly heaping abuses on me.
So accept congress is EVIL thats enough.
>>Sonia and no morals? Pray tell me which govt. position did she hold in the past five years
Yes she is some one of very high morals, that’s the reason why she tried to register herself in the Indian voters list twice when she had not taken up indian citizenship.
Saadhvi Sonia bhakt SIMBLE why dont you bring out a Sonia Chaalisa of sorts? You will be rewarded rightly.
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Simple, one cannot wake a man who is pretending to be asleep. The fact is this – The Congress does not have a long term strategy to deal with terror. Has not even built one, being in power for well over 50 years. On balance, the BJP has done much better, in a little over 5 years of it’s rule.
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Simple Simon….Wrong facts… one more round of laughter… on you….thanks…
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Bari Olu
Of course congress has got many evils along with many positives. BJP has got no positives, only negatives and negatives.
Which is why Cong is any day better.
If Sonia is low on morals, the opposition has no morals at all.
Palahalli
Even with eyes wide open, some people prefer to let their mind sleep. THe fact is BJP does not have any long term strategy to deal with terror. Except escorting people on planes.
COng demolished PUnjab terrorism. how come you conveniently ignored that? what has bjp done in its five years? except screaming hysterically, BJPs policies have increased terrorism in the country. They release Masood Azhar, who went to Pakistan and is created trouble for india every other day.
THat in essence is the record of BJP> you don’t have a single instance to prove BJP is better than COng in terrorism. I have given several instances to show that cong is better yet you parror what the sangh parivar tells the media.
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Sorry Simple. It’s a no-go for your stance.
On Punjab, if it were not for Beant Singh and KPS Gill’s single minded determination, Punjab would have boiled over. They were supported by the Sangh strongly.
But can you deny that Bhindranwale would never have been allowed to thrive if leaders like these two above, had had a free hand from the beginning?
What is the Congress’ long term strategy to deal with terror?
Your charge that the BJP increased terror is utter rubbish! Speak sense man! And right after this ridiculous charge, you speak of Punjab!
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Knicker Comrade Chintaka
Ran out of gas?
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Okie SIMBLE ninde doddadu aayta!! :P Santhosha na??
Olle konan munde kinnari barisda haage nin hatra vaada maadodu :)
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Whats the point of saying anything to you wrongfacts??? you will always get it wrong in any case….. moorkhara jote vaada maadodu beda… so bitbitte….
but keep posting your inanities…. we still need a joker around!!!
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Palahalli
WHo appointed Beant Singh? who appointed KPS Gill? They were both Congress apointees.
Who stormed golden temple? it was a cong pm
Who made the decision of black thunder? it was a cong govt.
All these acts together led to ELIMINATION of punjab terrorism..
You don’t want to give credit where it is due.
Strange
Pathetic
Why do i say BJP is responsible? because they bent over backwards and released Masood Azhar.
Sacrifice is key to nationalism. Not cowardice. If India had stood its ground and refused to relase those guys, SAYING NO NEGOTIATION, today, india would have been spared of the numerous terror attacks.
Bari Olu
Reality is harsh, yea adhakkae kanasina loka dalle irabeku antha resolve maadeedhira?
Live in your dream world, while the world changes.
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“COng demolished PUnjab terrorism. how come you conveniently ignored that?”
Enu tagotira sir neevu belligge belligge ??
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Knicker Comrade Chintaka
In America they call it ‘chickening out’.
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Simple, you can redeem yourself by posting one single statement from the Congress supporting the sacrifice of hijacked passengers.
But I can agree with the position that there must be no surrender of killers under any circumstances.
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>>congress has got many evils along with many positives.
Anna simpallu, Yellar mane dose toothu. be it nda or upa.
>>BJP has got no positives, only negatives and negatives.
Why do u say so? Media is biased. they dont portray anythin gud abt bjp.
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I dont know what they call it in US… but in namma kannadanaadinalli ondu maatu heltaare….
Konana mundey kindari baarisida haage…
Or how about….
Gorkalla mele male suridante sarvagna???
Wrong Facts… you always get it wrong.. dont you???
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Palahalli
It is not the job of the opposition to create policies. When Kandhar happened, BJP should have had the guts to form a policy saying ‘no negotiations’
they failed because they had no long term policy, no strategy, just empty shrill rhetoric.
it was congress which formulated the ‘no negotiation’ policy.
Sandesh
If cong did not demolish punjab terrorism, then who did it?
Arun Jaitely?
Seriously you should read history before making crap statements.
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WrongFacts.. you talking about reading history before making comments???
Dude…. you have a history of making comments before reading history!!! And you talking this????
One more round of laughter in office!!!!
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Half Pants Chintaka
Thank you for informing me that Arun Jaitely ended terrorism in Punjab.
you deserve a Nobel for your wonderful knowledge of history.
You have been unable to point out which of my facts are wrong, instead you keep on obfuscating the issues, by making childish comments on me.
According to history, congress govt at centre and state demolished terrorism in Punjab. THe world knows it. Sad you don’t know it.
Problem is you haven’t grown up. Obvious, since you still wear cheddis.
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3Kha
You say media is biased and doesn’t say anything good about BJP? hahahaah
1) Media gave us 72 hour live coverage of the mumbai attacks. Media attacked both Cong govts at centre and state pointed out the lapses, the loopholes, the inefficiency et all. Media pressure brought in resignations of Shivraj and Deshmukh
Media went hammer and tongs against Cong Minister Shivraj for four continous years.
Media went berserk when Cong CM Deshmukh took RGV for a terror tour.
Media did a relentless campaign against Haryana cong minister’s son Manu Sharma in the jessica lall murder case. Media pressure brought in the resignation of Manu Sharma’s father.
Today, Media is taking on Antualy today for his goofy comments.
I have quoted just three. i can quote several more to prove that media is quite harsh on congress.
2. On the contrary, here is some fact for you. One media actually has a BJP MP as a permanent host of a cricket show. Other media uses this same BJP MP as a judge in a laughter challenge.
I cannot think of a single Congress MP who is actually paid by the media to star in their shows.
THis shows how biased the media is towards BJP! ANd this MP in question has a case pending against him.
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Simpallu,
>>One media actually has a BJP MP as a permanent host of a cricket show.
Siddhu is not conveying any bjp ideology in cricket shows. Hes paid to talk abt cricket thats it. Neither he does that in comedy show.
>>I cannot think of a single Congress MP who is actually paid by the media to star in their shows.
U forgot Sanjay Nirupam? kaangi mps are not paid. but pay money to burkha dutt, rajdeep sardesai, sagarika ghouse to blurt out some shit.
>>ANd this MP in question has a case pending against him.
Agreed siddhu has a case pending against him. Apart from MMS, tell me which kaangi politician is not involved in criminal case, not even one?
Go and tell ur bullshit to Sonia Maino. She may giv u a party ticket for contesting.
@Chintaka – I think Simpallu is brainwashed by hardcore kaangis in a similar way as that of terrorists being indoctrinated. Hes not open for any criticism(not a sign of a wise person). We shud archive all his comments and read them when we retire and remember there was a fool called simpallu.
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3Kha
True to your other knicker comrade, you chickened out on making comments on the other points that I raised about media relentelessly pressurising manu sharma, shivraj patil, deshmukh, antulay,
1. For whatever reasons Sidhu has been chosen, he is still a BJP man. I mean, if media was against BJP they should not have chosen Sidhu for all his motor mouth comments.
Cleanly shows media has no antipathy to BJP.
2. for every sanjay nirupam there was one which came from the BJP , Rahul Mahajan , brother of the lady who is a BJP party member. YOu don’t need an IQ of 200 to realise who has used their media contacts to shore up the flagging career of rahul mahajan.
3. Psephologist cum columnist cum media man GVL Narasimha Rao is on the official payroll of BJP. He is the so called pollster for BJP, whose face is prominent on X news.
He spin doctors the polls to give his diseased versions of the opinion poll
4. Barkha Dutt and Rajdeep Sardesai are paid by COngress? hahaah….what inanities are you talking about. It is the same Barkha Dutt and Rajdeep Sardesai who told us that the NDA was coming back to power in 2004!!!!!!!!!!!
Clearly the media was SOLIDLY supporing the BJP in 2004, without any basis. when the people of india wanted to throw out BJP in 2004, the ENTIRE MEDIA WAS SUPPORTING BJP and ACTUALLY SPIN DOCTORING, TELLING US, THAT BJP WOULD COME BACK TO POWER.
NOW WE KNOW WHO PAID MONEY TO WHOM!
And you go on tell your crappy stories to Sangh Parivar, they may make you the CM of the state you choose.
I think you, sir are brainwashed by the hate idelogoy of your masters. Hate is fundamental to your very existence. You thrive on the politics of hate.
you seem completely blind to any criticism of the right wing party.
and i am NOT A HARDCORE CONGRESSMAN, SIMPLY BECAUSE I AM NOT A MEMBER OF CONGRESS ALSO BECAUSE:
I have accepted publicly that cong has several evils ..starting with the emergency and the goof up of deshmukh and shirvraj…..how can you say i am not open for criticisim, when i myself have criticized several acts of congress?
YOU GUYS ARE LAUGHABLE.
Sad to see you fulminating without any rhyme or reason.
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Simple Simon…
Smoking pot again??? Where in the world did I say Arun Jaitley ended terrorism in Punjab??
Dude… join some camp to get over it….
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“1) Media gave us 72 hour live coverage of the mumbai attacks. Media attacked both Cong govts at centre and state pointed out the lapses, the loopholes, the inefficiency et all. Media pressure brought in resignations of Shivraj and Deshmukh
Media went hammer and tongs against Cong Minister Shivraj for four continous years.
Media went berserk when Cong CM Deshmukh took RGV for a terror tour.
Media did a relentless campaign against Haryana cong minister’s son Manu Sharma in the jessica lall murder case. Media pressure brought in the resignation of Manu Sharma’s father.
Today, Media is taking on Antualy today for his goofy comments.
”
Thus Said Simple Simon in his pot induced blabbering….
Simple/Wrong Facts….
You see dude, there are two parts to Congress…..
One Congress is Indira, Rajeev, Sonia, Rahul and Priyanka…
The other congress is the rest of the crowd….
As you have admitted yourself, true the media raises a lot of questions about the other congress.. but what about the first family of congress??
You get the drift??
If you still have not come out of stupor, here it is, explained more clearly for you…
When the country was burning, the Yuvraj of Congress was drinking, dancing and having a ball of a time at the wedding party of his friend. Yet, apart from India Today, no one.. not a single media house reported it. Why???
Till date, no one is bloody sure what this joker’s qualifications are apart from the fact that he is Rajeev’s son. Any questions any one asked on that???
Till date, no one has dared asking Sonia amma her inability to speak extempore… why??? Her steadfast refusal to become Indian citizen till very late in her life… any questions on that??
Poor Mani Subba, that wretched MP from North east had his whole life history telecast in CNN IBN. Any such work on Sonia’s early life?? Her links with the Italian mafia thru Quatrochchi???
Till date no one has dared asking Priyanka what authority she had in saying that Nalini ought to be pardoned because she holds no grudges against her when in reality along with Rajeev, scores of others were killed in that blast. What about the feelings of the family members of those people????
Well, dude.. we are wearing knickers/half pants/ something… your nudity is showing and showing quite glaringly.. cover up fast…
Or is this too a culture of CONgress?????
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3kha and SIMPLE y dont you guys exchange your names. Only then I think it will make sense :)
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Simple – “It is not the job of the opposition to create policies.”
– I did not ask you for the Congress “policy”. Btw, never mind when in the opposition, even now it does not have a policy/strategy to tackle terror.
What I did ask you was for a statement from the Congress at the time of the hijacking that would indicate it’s clear preference for the sacrificing of hostages as against surrendering killers in exchange.
If you cannot produce such a statement, then please stop lambasting the BJP without at the same time trashing the Congress.
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Half Pants Chintaka
If you believe that Cong did not end terrorism in Punjab, then i have every right to believe you said that Arun Jaitley ended Terrorism in Punjab.
It takes two to tango and play the game.
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Cheddi Comrade Chintaka
I am amazed at your ability to be in a constant state of delusion. I mean, does your brain ever wake up? Now you say Congress has been attacked, but the Gandhi clan has never been attacked? Ho ho. He he. Ha ha.
1. Indian Express under a journalist of mediocre IQ called Arun Shourie unleashed a vicious campaign against Rajeev and family during the Bofors scandal. Ram Jethamalani used to ask ten questions daily to Rajeev Gandhi. And Indian Express actively encouraged and published this.
2. The media went to town against Indira Gandhi’s excesses during Emergency. It was the media’s vituperative articles and constant pressure which forced Indira madam to lift emergency. Her party was even defeated at the hustings thanks to the media stories about Congress’s gory misrule.
3. Pioneer editor Chandan Mitra writes anti Sonia articles everyday in his publication. Can’t help it if people have not heard of his obscure paper.
4. Squeaky voiced cum Senior journalist Swapan Dasgupta has been the torchbearer of Gandhi bashing for more than three decades. All his hare brained articles finds its way to the columns of all leading publications.
5. On the other hand, whilst BJP has been subject to criticism by the media, Vajpayee and Advani get away lightly. Nobody dares raise their voice against these two biggies, except their own buddy, the RSS who has publicly asked them to retire because they were just too old for being in politics. Except Tehelka no other publication so much reported the sting operation in which people have openly accepted that they killed people in the Gujarat riots. So clearly the media is not doing any harsh BJP stories.
6. There is no freer media than the internet. The internet is overflowing with vicious anti Gandhi abuses. Starting from you, Mr. Chintaka.
I have given you just six. More can follow if you need it. The point is you keep changing your statements based on new facts that I unearth.
All those points about Rahul Gandhi dancing and partying, Rahul Gandhi’s education, Sonia not speaking extempore, Priyanka asking for Nalin’s pardon and the other trash ,…..are all very personal actions. None of them are related to the Indian public lives. Neither me, nor you have any business in commenting on other people’s personal lives. You need to draw a line, between personal and professional ethics.
Media rightly does not pick up such trivial trash.
I say that media is not picking so many of BJP’s questionable antics. Has anybody dared ask the qualification of Rahul Mahajan, why he deserved to be in BJP soon after his father’s death? Has any questions been raised about Sidhu’s antics when his immature action lead to the death of a person ?
Has any thought been spared to the family of the person who died under the hands of Sidhu? No media dares to go to the victims family house and make it as sensational as the Jessica Lal murder case.
In the Jessica lal case, a family member Sabrina Lall became the darling of the media.
In the Sidhu case, nobody even knows the name of any family member of the person who died
Shame!
Spare a thought to the victim’s family who died because of Sidhu. But here you are supporting Sidhu. Irony of Ironies. Whilst you make a song and dance about the familys of other people died when Rajeev Gandhi died, you are absolutely quiet about Sidhu. Think about the victims family man. Think. Think.
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Simple Simon…
Half pants is better than being naked….agree????
Well, here is the deal….
Let me quote the following instances to you where the media went licking the feet of Sonia and the family….
1. Did you watch Burqa Dutt’s interview of Sonia in NDTV? If you have, you know what I am talking… if you have not please do so before commenting.
2. Rahul’s dancing away the night is not personal dude.. after all he is the king apparent in your family.. isnt he… well that shows the maturity he has…
3. Sonia’s inability to speak extempore is also a matter of concern because we dont know if she can think.. and to think that a person who cannot think is given the reins of power in the family party is pathetic…
4. What about Sidhu? If court takes a call on him, let it take.. no one is asking that he be pardoned… correct????
The point Simple Simon is you always get it wrong.. wasnt that the reason why you were calling yourself WrongFacts???
Media, more so the visual media, handled the Gandhi Family with kid gloves. Period.
As long as Swapan Das Gupta raises relevant issues.. how does his voice matter to you? Isnt that personal?? Or these things matter only to your masters???
Dude.. stop smoking pot.. you will be alright…
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Palahalli
BJP did not come out with a ‘NO NEGOTIATION’ policy. Hence I shall lambast them. You can’t stop me from that. They neither had strategy nor long term policy.
BJP never had any vision nor long term strategy when ruling or when in opposition now.
BUt congress track record is all to see. They successfully eliminated terrorism in Punjab. How can Indira Gandhi have eliminated terrorism without any strategy or vision?
If you refuse to call the sun as sun and call it the moon, i can’t help it.
Whether Cong opposed or supported BJP during Kandahar is not the moot point. THE crucial point is HOW DID THE THEN RULING PARTY DEAL with the terrorists?
WHen the terrorists asked us to bend, we crawled. Thats how we dealt with them.
What is evident is show BJP had no strategy. Because they weakly kneeled over and let the terrorsits get away with what they wanted.
The then home minister said that he did not know that the terrorists were being escorted by Jaswanth Singh! Man, this is really the pits!
HOw can the home minister be not in controL?
Can you answer this?
Just like you have a free hand in lambasting congress, I too have a free hand in lambasting BJP
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Cheddi Chikappa Chintaka
1. Did you watch Rajdeep Sardesa’s interview of L K Advani? If you have, then you know what I am talking about. If you do not, then please do so before commenting.
2. Rahul dancing is definitely personal. He is not been appointed king apparent. Sonia has never said so. Nor has Rahul Gandhi.
3. Sonia’s inability to speak is personal. Great orators are not always great administrators. Speaking extempore is not a must criteria for good administration. Vajpayee was a great orator but people disliked his rule of 6 years, hence BJP was thrown out. Similarly there are scores of good orators who have been overthrown out of power. What matters is integrity, level headedness and the ability to govern.
4. How come the media never ONCE thought about the victim’s family? how come NDTV thought about Manu Sharma’s victim’s family but not about Sidhu’s victim’s family?
Clearly shows NDTV is willing to brush aside Sidhu’s act (read a BJP Man) but NDTV is not willnig to brush aside Manu Sharma’s act. (read son of Cong Minister)
5 a)I notice you did not comment on Arun SHourie going hammer on tongs against Gandhi in his newspaper for decades.
5. b) I notice you did not comment on Chandan Mitra’s anti Gandhi Tirades day in and day out in his paper.
5. c) I notice you did not comment on how the entire media ganged up against Indira Gandhi during emergency. The entire media handled Gandhi family with an iron hand not with kids’ gloves.
5. d) I notice you agree that Swapan Das Gupta, a media man has been writing anti Gandhi articles since three decades.
Thank you Cheddi Chikaapa for agreeing with my point that media has been severely critical of Cognress and Gandhi family.
So next time, before you make any wild comments, read history. Check out facts. Media has been acidic on both Cong and Gandhi family on hundreds of occasssions.
As usual your facts are wrong. Boy, I am getting tired of being right always.
man, I really need some competitive debator.
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Wow. This is well on its way to becoming the longest commented post on churumuri. Keep working on it, I think a week more should do the trick..
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Simple – The Congress did not support the sacrifice of hostages then, did it?
This argument is closed.
You still haven’t told me if the Congress has a strategy against terror.
Let me add a follow-up thought to any response you might have for the above query;
A “No Negotiation” policy will have credibility in partnership with only an overall strategy against terror. That way, Govt ensures it’s not criminally sacrificing its citizens.
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Palahalli
YOu keep saying Cong does not have a strategy. It suits your warped argument.
1. Terrorism did not end in Punjab without a strategy. Storming Golden Temple was a strategy. Indira had to pay for it with her life. But in her death, terrorism was exterminated in Punjab.
2. Strategy? what strategy did NDA have? lol lol. none. Or perhaps they had one strategy: “allow terrrorists to blackmail the govt.” In fact the ext BJP foreign minister has said on a TV channel, that BJP would repeat the Kandahar exhchange of terrorists for hostages.
This is a clear signal and an open invitation to terrorists to abduct people and hijack planes and when BJP comes to power, they will release whoever the terrorists want to be released.
3. Congress in its history has never exchanged terrorists for hostages. But BJP has. Simple. Argument now closed.
Nationalism is about sacrificing, not making empty speeches.
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Simple Simon…. parroting the same stuff again and again???
Good jokes…. though
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Chintaka
You cannot argue with facts. Because facts are facts. Glad to see you stopped commenting.
Because you have run out of defence.
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Simple simon.. got a little busy on monday.. you know, we are not like you…. licking only…..we have to work…
Will comment later.. till then had a good laugh.. to drive away the monday morning blues!!!!!
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Simple – I think you have reached the stage of an “ego-takeover”. You have become stubborn.
I would like you to focus on your debate with me.
I have not defended the BJP on Kandahar, nor have I claimed for it, a strategy against terrorism.
However, you seem to have convinced yourself that the Congress was all for sacrificing those hostages and that it had a strategy, nay, had one since the 80s at least!
My argument with you is that the Congress neither stated it’s position (to sacrifice or not) on the hostages in 1999 nor has it evolved a well defined or otherwise, strategy against terrorism.
You keep harping on Punjab and shockingly say this – “But in her death, terrorism was exterminated in Punjab.”
Sir, in Indira’s death and massacres of Sikhs, was the surefire revival of Sikh terror.
Here is also what KPS Gill has to say about Party Political conduct in Punjab;
The Knights of Falsehood – DOCTRINES OF DECEIT – V
“The arguments expounded, the examples selected, the perspectives and analysis of this book may appear inordinately biased against the Akali leadership. It is a well known and well documented fact that the flames of terrorism were fanned by the Congress (I), that the Akalis, if anything, initially opposed the ‘Bhindranwale card’ that the Centre and the State Congress leadership was playing. It is not the intention of this work to defend or exonerate any specific political grouping or leader for its role in the Punjab tragedy. Not a single party that was involved in this protracted catastrophe conducted itself with honour.”
B. Raman, in his analysis of Kandahar @ SAAG tells us;
“Nor was the BJP-led Government the first in India to have compromised with terrorists to retrieve a difficult situation. The V.P.Singh Government did it in 1989 and that of Shri Narasimha Rao in 1993 (to get the Hazratbal shrine vacated by the terrorists and to avoid another “Operation Blue Star”)”.
Again, B. Raman@Intellibriefs tells us;
“Since hijacking of Indian planes started in January, 1971, when two members of the Jammu & Kashmir Liberation Front (JKLF) hijacked a plane to Lahore and blew it up with explosives given by the ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence) at Lahore after releasing the passengers and crew, there have been 13 hijackings–all of Indian Airlines aircraft. During the training of terrorists, the ISI instructs them to avoid Air India planes lest international concern be aroused due to the presence of a large number of foreign passengers.
Three of these hijackings took place in the 1970s, of which one by Kashmiri extremists was sponsored by the ISI, while the other two were personally-motivated.
There were five hijackings in the 1980s–three of them in 1982–all by Sikh extremists backed by the ISI.
There were five in the 1990s—four of them in 1993, all personally-motivated, and the fifth, of IC- 814, in 1999 was by an international Islamic jihadi organisation backed by the ISI.”
************
Now, I have listed some data for you – For starters, please match the dates above (Hijackings), with the dates below –
Congress – 15 August 1947 – 24 March 1977 = 30 Years
Janata
Congress – 14 January 1980 – 2 December 1989 = 9 Years
Congress – 21 June 1991 – 16 May 1996 = 5 Years
Third Front
NDA – 19 March 1998 – 22 May 2004 = 6 Years
For perspective – Hijacking Date – Dec, 1999
(The NDA should have been able to rely on well honed and oiled Intelligence Agencies, if the Congress truly had any strategy against Terror, surely?)
Congress – 2004 – Current
***********************
Some more to chew on –
Which group did the Congress patronize right from 1947 onwards, in the Middle East? The PLO and Yasser Arafat his predecessors and his backers in the name of the Palestinians but really, to pander to “homely” Muslims. Not that that backing had any intrinsic merit.
Any notion of Congress “strategy” in the Punjab has been demolished by the hero of “Punjab”, KPS Gill. That victory was crafted by Beant and Gill. The Congress did well by allowing them to work their magic and not poke it’s dirty nose.
But if you insist, please let’s talk about Kashmir and the North East. What happened to it’s “strategy” here? What happened in Lanka?
I think i’ll let you answer now.
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Cheddi Chintaka
Your fake excuse: Got busy on Monday.
THe real reason: You cannot argue with facts.
WHen you cannot argue with facts, you start personally abusing me, calling me licker of Congress and all that.
By the same yardstick i can say you are a licker of BJP. But I won’t do that.
Because I will not stoop to your level.
Also, you need to get some character, before I can character assisinate you
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Palahalli
Ego hassles?
No dude. I have none. I go by facts. I can accuse you with the same ‘ego weapon’ you are brandishing at me. You blindly believe in whatever you believe in without any supporting facts.
I am CERTAINLY not stubborn because I have candidly admitted several mistakes on Congress’ part starting from Emergency to Shivraj Patil’s handling of home ministry right up to the latest tactless comments of Antulay.
I have NEVER ever said Cong supported sacrificing of hostages. Show me one posting where i have said that. I repeat: If you hold Cong who was in the opposition, guilty of the Kandahar episode, then how much guilt should lie on BJP’s shoulders by virtue of being in the ruling party?
Surely, BJP has a heavier, bigger, larger cross to bear than Congress? At least you recognise this i suppose.
So there ends your bickering on this part.
You have convinced yourself that BJP has a larger vision, a greater strategy to combat terrorism. While you are so easy to accuse congress of having no strategy, you never say anything abuot the BJP. I dare ask you, does the BJP have any strategy against terrorism?
Facts speak for themselves.
Congress ELIMINATED terrorism in Punjab. This cannot have happened without a strategy. yes, of course, they had a grand strategy, the end result of which resulted in the death of terrorism in Punjab.
BJP had no strategy. Because they eliminated nothing during their time. Their track record is ZERO. YOu hear me? Z E R O. Yet you never take a harsh stance against BJP while rubbishing Congress as a strategyless party! Strange.
In fact check your records. Under NDA there were more killings in Kashmir, than it is under UPA.
Clearly, UPA has handled the Kashmir issue better.
1. And what do you mean victory was crafted by Beant Singh and KPS Gill? Of course, it was crafted by these two. But it could not have happened without the centre not knowing anything. Beant Singh was a Cong CM. SO FULL MARKS TO CONGRESS, by your own admittance, for removing terrrorism in Punjab.
Problem is you have irrational hatred towards Congress. You are reluctant to give credit to congress, where it is due.
2. THe gobbledegook you have stated about hijacking statistics is not credible. ANybody can sit anywhere and create such fake statistics……Even if it is genuine, then it should surely qualify as minor. Because if it was major the press would have picked it up and they haven’t ever.
3. So you think the congress patrnoized Yaseer Arafat with an eye on the Muslim vote bank in India? ? ?!!!! hahaha…you really really don’t have an original thought in your head do you, you just believe the trash written by some so called expert.
Here are some facts which brutally slay your statements, and expose the nakedity of your mentality.
Answer the following:
1. Under Congress, India has attacked Pakistan and won a war. If Congress, was worried about the muslim vote in India, how come they attacked Pakistan a muslim nation?
How come such original thinking escapes your blinkered mind?
Far from Yaseer Arafat, most muslims (in then India, where illiteracy was very high) wound not even have heard of somethign like Palestine. ANd you think, congress would soft pedal on Palestine issue, because of votes! hahahaah….
What sort of a foolish connection is that?
2. The ex home minster of NDA has repeatedly praised Jinnah Surely, it was his way of acquiring a ‘secular’ image with an eye on muslim votes in India.
Plenty more facts i can state which shows clearly that BJP is out to appease the minority community for votes. Only, you need to have an original mind to think about it.
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Simple, I have some time today and so will respond in detail.
I will bunch your paragraphs so as to save space –
1. Simple, please challenge me on my argument and you will get evidence. Where necessary, I have provided evidence too.
2. I did not claim you supported Congress 100%. However, my contention is that your reasoning on Congress having a strategy against terror is flawed.
3. On the “hostages”, my argument is that Congress in 1999 never argued that the NDA Government must never give-in to terrorists even though it might cost innocent lives.
If Congress had argued thus, then your argument, that Congress was hard on terror, would be valid. And no, I do not hold the Congress directly responsible for Kandahar. There is an indirect responsibility. The difference in time between NDA takeover and Kandahar is approx 18 months (+-). If the Congress had given this nation an infrastructure (part of it’s “strategy”)to fight terror, it would be in place at the time of the hijacking. NDA still had the excuse of being too new to put in place an all encompassing strategy against such attacks. (However, I’m still not condoning the NDA here.)
4. Simple, once you stop defending the indefensible Congress, I will join you in abusing the BJP. The BJP has the ideological support to fight Islamic terror, but is indifferent, unsure and lazy. It needs a man like Modi at the helm. *You will speak about Temple demolitions but that’s another argument*
5. I’m sorry. Congress generated Punjabi Sikh terrorism. Beant and Gill, fought and won. The comparison is like the BJP and Modi.
Congress’ “strategy” was to not poke its nose. Just like the BJP not interfering in Gujarat.
6. Please review the data on Kashmir – Source: Satp.org
DEATHS
____________________________
Year Incidents Civilians Security Per. Terrorists %of Total (Terrorists)
Cong 1
1991 3122 594 185 614 44%
1992 4971 859 177 873 46%
1993 4457 1023 216 1328 52%
1994 4484 1012 236 1651 57%
1995 4479 1161 297 1338 48%
1996 4224 1333 376 1194 41%
_________________________________________________
Total 25737 5982 1487 6998 48%
_________________________________________________
NDA
1998 2993 877 339 1045 46%
1999 2938 799 555 1184 47%
2000 2835 842 638 1808 55%
2001 3278 1067 590 2850 63%
2002 NA 839 469 1714 57%
2003 NA 658 338 1546 61%
_________________________________________________
Total 12044 5082 2929 10147 56%
_________________________________________________
Cong 2
2004 NA 534 325 951 53%
2005 NA 521 218 1000 58%
2006 NA 349 168 599 54%
2007 NA 164 121 492 63%
2008* NA 67 90 382 71%
_________________________________________________
Total 1635 922 3424 57%
_________________________________________________
1st and 3rd table = Congress
2nd = NDA
Look at the %s of Terrorists killed against total.
8% (+) between Cong 1 and NDA
1% (+) between NDA and Cong 2
What does this table tell you?
7. If you want to superimpose success in Punjab onto Congress, then please agree to superimpose success in Gujarat onto BJP/NDA.
8. You are talking nonsense about the “Hijacking Stats” I provided. Be careful about insulting my credibility without backing it up with your own sources!
Listen to KPS Gill again – From, “Freedom from Fear”. He is talking with reference to the Kandahar hijack.
“The moral burden on the CMG and the negotiators, in these circumstances, is unrealistic and unjust, as any error of judgment may well constitute an inadvertent sentence of death for the hapless hostages.
In this situation, to condemn the Government for having ‘mishandled’ the situation – as some Opposition leaders, who were themselves part of the predecessor regime that did nothing to evolve a coherent policy of response, have done – is inappropriate. This Government’s responses have been no worse – and on some measures, may have been marginally better – than those of earlier regimes in comparable cases.”
****************
I can actually end my response to you here…but will not.
9. So tell me. Why did the Congress patronize Arafat? Even after they knew of his involvement in numerous killings of innocents?
10. Simple, your ignorance worries me no end. When did India “attack” Pakistan? If you mean 1971, it was Pakistan that attacked our Western Front. Only then were we at war with Pakistan.
If the Congress were really farsighted, they would have ensured Bangladesh would never become a headache in future. It’s Liberal, succumbing mentality has cost this country dear time and again.
11. On Arafat and Muslims in India – Where do you live? Jupiter?
12. The ex-Home Minister quoted Jinnah’s first speech as Governor General of Pakistan. Have you read it? The RSS over-reacted and hauled Advani over the coals. It’s funny that that was one time when the Congress and the RSS were on the same platform :)
Well, that’s that.
A suggestion – Please do better research the next time you post.
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Simple, I can see that the Data Table is smudged.
You can access the same data on this link, but will need to get at %s manually.
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/jandk/data_sheets/annual_casualties.htm
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1. You have given me no evidence whatsoever to prove Congress has no strategy to deal against terrorism. You have given me no evidence whatsoever to prove BJP has a better strategy
2. I have given you evidence to prove Congress has a strategy. They sucessfully killed terrorism in Punjab. This cannot happen by chance or by accident. Surely, it had a strategy. If you are blind to such evidence, I shall comment no further.
3. How can Cong be weak on terror, when Indira Gandhi had the courage to carry out Operation Blue star and then also congress had the guts to carry out operation black thunder.
It is strang you keep ignoring such evidence, and hide under the refuge of the fact that Indira created Bhindranwale. SO what if she created him? She destroyed him too. So surely she should get 10 on 10 points for being extremely harsh on terror.
3. NDA govt was new? now, this is a new excuse. For a party which shouts from roof tops that they are harsh on terror, isn’t 18 months enough? V L Malotra has reportedly stated that if he came to power in Delhi, he would hang Afzal guru in one week. WEll, if they need one week to take tough action, isn’t 18 months enough to formulate a strategy? it wasnt just 18 months, BJP was in power for 13 months before the 18 months…remember? they lost the vote of confidence by one vote, so we went to elections. so it is 18 plus 13 monts.
Worse, THE MOST GLARING PONT: BJP CONTINUES TO MAINTAIN THAT THEY WILL RELEASE TERRORISTS IN THE FUTURE, IN EXCHANGE OF HOSTAGES. THIS, AFTER 8 YEARS AFTER THE HIJACKING. ISNT EIGHT YEARS ENOUGH TO LEARN?
IN EFFECT, BJP actcually says terrorists are FREE TO ABDUCT and HIJACK, and BJP WILL COME TO POWER AND RELEASE THE TERRORISTS.
is this tuff on terror? laughable. I WONDER WHY YOU NEVER EVER REACT TO THIS POINT.
4.Palahalli, stop defending the indefensible acts of BJP. THE BJP surely has the ideological support to fight terror. that is because BJP is shrewd in rhetoric, it is very good in spin doctoring facts. it is very good in communcating their propoganda.
But those who have some originality in their mind, would stop to question this ideological dislike to anything islamic. Actually, BJP is as pseudo secular as Congress. They will do anything to win Muslim votes. Sadly, CONgerss doesn’t have the shrewdeness to capitalise on these weak points and go hammer and tongs against BJP>
1. Karnataka CM has given 150 crores to the minority fund. which is one of the reasons, minorities are assumed to be voting for BJP in these by elections. Congerss has NEVER EVER earmarked 150 crorres for muslims.
2. in the April elections, Katta Subramanya Naidu, it was reported in MID DAY, that he sent Muslims to Ajmer for Dargah…wonder why he never sent hindus..because hindus are taken for granted.
3. BJP’s sister organisation has called Modi as the Aurangzeb of India. You have zero defence against his act of demolishing 200 temples. CONGRESS HAS NEVER EVER DEMOLISHED EVEN ONE TEMPLE…and modi is soft on mosques and churches. never demolishes even a single one of them.
4. Advani has praised Jinnah several times. CONGRESS HAS NEVER DONE SUCH A THING TO WIN VOTES.
5. BJP supported a muslim candidate for president of india. while congress supported a hindu pratibha patil.
6. just before karkare’s death, bjp went hammer and tongs against hemant karkare, the martyr who fought against islamic fundamentalists.
7. 61% of people voted in this J&K assembly elections. compared to the pathetic 40 odd percent during the last time. Clearly normalcy has been restored under UPA, rather than the NDA. this statistic is glaring proof that nda was terrible in handling kashmir. back your arguments with credible facts, not manufactured facts, please.
8. So tell me why does BJP support narendra modi, inspite of courts expressing distrust against modi adminstration, and shifting several cases to Maharashtra?
9.If you agree what BJP gets zero credit for Gujarat success, then i agree congress gets zero credit for elimination of punjab. yours is a weird logic, quite absurd. it is like saying you are a kannadiga but you are not indian.
10. I am amazed about your distorted facts and your ignorance of history. 1971war was won by India. Hello, wake up and smell the coffee. If india under the congress had not counter attacked pakistan, would we have won the war? According to your narrow, warped view, Congress should not have counter attacked pakistan for fear of losing domestic support. what a joke.
11. Congress gave tasleema nasreen visa twice over. it is another matter that she had to be pushed out when the left raised their shrill voice against it.
12. congrss has done nothign to bring back M F Hussain.
13. Congress has got back Abu Salem.
14 Congress has ensured all the Muslims get convicted in Mumbai blasts case. 75% of them are muslims.
15. Congress has ensured that all the muslims convcited in Coimbatiore blasts case, ge their due sentences….point is you people dont read the news. you just buy what the BJP Tells you what the truth is.
also, as i said, congress fails in communicating its achievements. while bjp over communicates its most trivial successes.
16. It was not just the RSS. NOT A SINGLE MEMBER FROM BJP SUPPORTED ADVANI in his Jinnah praising statements. What was the need to quote Jinnah? clearly, with an eye on the muslim vote bank.
please for heaven’s sake, raise the level of this debate, instead of crouching under obsure statitistics and a nihilistic world view.
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Simple – Please don’t scream. And please don’t try to confuse and confound. Won’t work with me.
“back your arguments with credible facts, not manufactured facts, please.” – This is your statement.
Prove my data on Kashmir wrong if you want this debate to proceed. If you cannot prove it wrong, then apologize and admit you are wrong.
Post which we will take two disputes at a time; so that this debate does not travel the world each time you post.
See you later!
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Palahalli
Thank you for the statistical table that you sent me which indicates the number of incidents, the number of civilians, the security personnel and terrorists killed. I went through it in some detail
This is what is called scoring a SELF GOAL.
1. First of all, i am not a torchbearer of Congress’s earlier regimes. I am merely interested in the current UPA’s tenure. UPA Under Manhmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi has been a far successful combination than NDA/ That is esentially my point.
People are going to vote tomorrow, based on UPA’s performance in the past five years and not Congress performance in 1980s! so the 80s table i have not even considered.
2. From your own table, here is what i gathered
Under NDAs rule of five years, from 1999 to 2003 dec., the number of civilians killed were 4205.
Under UPAs rule of five years, from 2004 to december 2008, the number of civilians killed are 1635.
CLEARLY UPA IS MUCH BETTER? UPA IS BETTER AT PROTECTING CIVILIANS LIFE THAN NDA. THAT IS FULL MARKS TO UPA>
3. Under NDA, the number of security personnel killed were 2590
Under UPA< the number of security personall killed were 902.
Clearly, UPA HAS PERFORMED MUCH BETTER. EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT UPA IS BETTER AT PROTECTING SECURITY PERSONNNELS LIVE. IT IS A RATHER POOR SHOW BY NDA.
4. The number of terrorists killed under NDA was 9000, under UPA it is 3424. that is clearly because terrorism is on the wane.
terrorism is declining in J and K..this IS PROVED BY THE FACT THAT the number of civilian and security personnel deaths have come down.
a sense of normalcy has returned under UPA, because under UPA, 61 percent of people voted in the assembly elections
under NDA, a pathetic, 41 percent voted.
Clearly UPA IS THE WINNER AGAIN?
UPA HAS BROUGHT DOWN NUMBER OF TERRORISTS INCIDENTS.
UPA HAS BROUGHT DOWN NUMBER OF CIVILIANS KILLED
UPA HAS BROUGHT DOWN NUMBER OF SECURITY GUYS KILLED.
UPA HAS SUCCESSULY ENSURED 60% (MAJORITY) VOTE IN ASSEMBLY POLLS.
Thank you for the table palahalli..
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Simple – You accused me of using manufactured data. You’re usage of the same data tells me two things –
1. That you don’t think this data is manufactured.
2. And that’s because you think it is favorable to your stance.
You owe me an apology either ways. I’ll expect one from you in your next post.
You also tell me now that you’re defending the UPA and not Pre-UPA Congress, because as you yourself say. “First of all, i am not a torchbearer of Congress’s earlier regimes.”
I’ll then expect you to retract your Pre-UPA arguments that were in favor of the Congress and accept arguments that were against.
Also, the next time you post, please make clear the scope of the debate so that future backtracking is not possible.
We’ll get back to this debate after I see you’re apology and you’re acceptance of my arguments against Pre-UPA Congress.
And oh! Don’t forget to define scope.
Good day!
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Palahalli sir,
Dont waste your energy on convincing a stupid guy like SIMPLE. You have backed your stats with sources but mr. SIMPLE doesnt say where he gets all those numbers that he quotes :) He is prejudiced and unfortunately our country is made of a huge set bunch of such morons.
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Palahalli, I am really sorry. You exposed my double standards. in future i will try to analyse properly and write my views. thanks for opening my eyes.
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bari olu – My thinking is different. Opponents like Simple test all my resources. That’s good. And it’s not just Simple. It’s also folks who are reading this debate and who might be thinking like Simple, that are important for me. So, I welcome all debate and more of it.
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Simple simon….. two days I was out of this post and you started assuming things man!!!
Dude, this is what happens when you start taking yourself too seriously!!! If you think someone will stop posting here because Simle, The WRONG FACTS is posting his utter inanities here, you are wrong man.. See, WrongFacts is always wrong!!!!
More to come shortly…. keep waiting….
BTW, you still think lickers have characters?? Knickers have, I know that. They are covering something atleast… but lickers… you got the drift????
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Palahalli
I had said your facts could be manufactured. And i added a rider, even if THEY ARE TRUE, THEY ARE OBSCURE.
I did not backtrack.
But i used your own obsucre facts to put the noose around your neck. In the process even Bari Olu and Chintaka gagged together.
It is a hatrick of gags.
1. I said i am not a torchbearer of Congress pre 2000 regimes. Yes, i stand by that.
That does not mean I don’t support the good things that the party has done in 80s and 90s.
I definitely support the good achievements they did and criticize the bad stuff. There is no contradiction. Just because i support Congress, that does not mean I SUPPORT ALL THAT CONGRESS EVER DOES>
I HAVE TOLD THAT TO YOU GUYS A MILLION TIMES. Don’t you ever understand?
So no question of backtracking or apologising.
2a). SECONDLY, I HAVE NOT APOLOGISED. SOME IDIOT HAS POSTED AN APOLOGY IN MY NAME. CLEARLY IT IS A FRADULENT CASE. I HAVE AND WILL NOT APOLOGISE.
2b) the scope of the debate is who will win the 2009 elections based on UPA’s rule of five years, and NDA’s immature opposition to all that UPA has done.
and not congress of 1970 vs. bjp of 2050. what a ridiculous scope you guys have set for yourselves.
3. bari olu, what do you mean i have no evidence?
the whole world knows, it is there in every media that kashmir recorded 62% voting this assembly election.
the whole world knows that during NDA regime, the assembly elections vote percentage was a pathetic 42%.
this is not fact?
and besides, all the ten points i have raised is based on verifyable facts.
when you guys know yu are losing you start calling me stupid and what not.
As for as Chintaka, i won’t even respond. He is getting into low brow mud slinging. this guys does not have any fact, any evidence any logic to his argument.
he is shrill and empty.
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MORE EVIDENCE
READ ECONOMIC TIMES, BANGALORE EDITION, 2ND PAGE. 2ND COLUMN ( 29 december 2008). article titled “Seven wonders of J&K”
IT SAYS
The impressive 86% fall in militant activities between 2002 and 2008 may never have been anticipated.
prior to 2002, for four years, NDA ruled, when militancy was high.
in the past six years, there is a fall of 86% in militancy in Kashmir
No more evidence is needed to show that militancy is being eliminated in kasmhmir.
after punjab, congress has not almost extinguished militiancy in kashmir
BJP’s record is still zero. while cong has already got two in its kitty. eliminated terrorism in punjab and kashmir
Statistics clearly point that there was 86% more terrorist activities under NDA, in Kashmir.
BJP HAS failed miserably in controlling militant activities in kashmir, yet we have palahalli and bari olu and chintaka blindly supporting NDA
laughable.
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Simple…..someone should take a pity on you… dude you have the best record of saying the same thing again and again and again and again and again and again………..
Ending something on your own when you have started it in the first place is not commendable.. you got it?? Like I come and slap you.. when you get angry, say sorry and avoid the fight… had i not slapped you in the first place, there would have been no fight… correct???
Same way, the grand old fool of Congress, Nehru did a historical blunder when it came to handling the Kashmir issue. The result is for us to see today.
Where was militancy in Punjab till Indira gave raise to the demon of bhindranwale????
This is classic CONgress double speak… create a problem where there is none.. and then later after all the damages are done, try to suppress it and take credit for it….
Dude, you are forgetting one little thing.. CONgress was in power for more than 55 years in our 60 year post independence history… you cannot blame BJP or NDA for failing to clear all the muck these jokers created in this time span… got it???
But then, what more can we expect from a certified sycophant?? Right WrongFacts???
You still have not answered the question: “why did you change the name from Wrong Facts to Simple?”. Wrong Facts suited you brilliantly!!!!!
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Confused Commie cum communalist
Read my other two postings before this one, please…same to you palahalli and bari olu. in that mail, i have answered palahalli’s queries.
i have told you a zillion times i AM NOT a supporter of all of congress’s rule or misrule of the last century. i give credit where it is due. i criticize where it is due.
i am only concerned about the 2009 poll. in this poll, i compare NDA’s misrule of six years and UPAs glorious rule of five years. and then i vote.
NDA was in power for six years – during which time Militancy in Kashmir was at its peak
UPA has been in power for close to five years. during which time militancy in kashmir came down by 86%
And that.
That is the greatness of UPA’s achievements.
Congress of 70s, 80s and 90s is not the same as UPA of 2004 -2009
So instead of going again and again like a badly stuck record that congress ruled India for 50 odd years and is responsible for everything bad…just use your head and think the opposite..
Congress should also be given due creidt for green revolution, for IT revolution, for space revolution, for Economic revolution, for nuclear energy revolution for a million other things…
sadly since you don’t have one objective bone in your body, you keep riling against congress for only its minuses, but never ever support its numerous positives
But i really don’t expect much from someone who is deeply brainwashed by bigoted thinking and who is a confirmed slave of rightist ideology.
Originality is missing in your postings…
Factuality is missing in your postings..
All you do is escape from the real facts. you are an incorrigible escapist.
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Simple – Since you deny your apology, and I believe you when you say you have not apologized, I guess I’ll have to continue dealing with a slippery debater.
Let me quickly come to your highlights –
1. Your assertion; “facts could be manufactured. And i added a rider, even if THEY ARE TRUE, THEY ARE OBSCURE.”
* Show me where you added this rider. Even otherwise, how is this data “obscure”?
2. You say you did not “backtrack”…allright. Let’s say you did not :)
3. I don’t think anybody is against Congress 100%. But I agree that I and folks who think like I do, tend to take the blunders of the Congress more seriously than you do. The same goes for the NDA.
4. I demanded an apology because you lied about my data. Not because you backtracked.
5. As far as the NDA’s “immature” opposition is concerned, please state the issue and we’ll talk about it. And no, I have ASKED you for scope, not set any.
6. You’re manner of looking at data is too simplistic. In my earlier data post to you, I had left conclusions open ended in the hope that you might read signals properly.
There is a reason I took % of “Terrorists Killed” as the proper measure.
This data point will show how effective our Security and it’s leadership has been, because Simple, inspite of your much vaunted Congress “Strategy against Terror” since years of yore, this country still has no control over “input ie Incidents” and so must be measured on “output ie Terrorists Killed”.
You crow about reduced negative %s vis a vis Victims of Terror (2002:2008) and the positive %age of voters as compared to 2002 and yet you ignore what the Economic Times has clearly stated as reason/cause for this reduction in incidents with it’s positive fall-out on Voter %age.
From the same article –
“The high voter interest in these J&K polls is seen to be linked with the low levels of militancy and infiltration seen over the last couple of years, thanks to Pakistan’s pre-occupation with other domestic matters — be it restoration of democracy or dealing with the Taliban on its western borders — and fencing of border stretches in J&K.”
We are not even talking about increased ISI and Army involvement in Pakistan’s West because of the Taliban offensive/increased US presence and Pakistan’s own internal problems with it’s Frankenstein.
I find this statement interesting –
“Congress should also be given due creidt for green revolution, for IT revolution, for space revolution, for Economic revolution, for nuclear energy revolution for a million other things…”
– Apart from confirming the degree of Congress stranglehold over our people, your campaign for “recognition” will get it(The Congress) the same that is due to the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. I leave it to you to list down the CPSU’s “achievements” and compare for consolation.
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Simple! it is not that simple to hail UPA.
Please answer the following……….
1. How the account of quatrochi was de-frozen? could it be possible without the say of congress? and consequently allowing quatrochi to withdraw the money there. Look the money was frozen way back.
2. When Hindus are murdered in Kashmir, that is a secular act? and when Muslims are… that is a communal act?
3. When Haneef detained in Australia, the PM of UPA did not sleep, and when Pragya detained, did the UPA PM sleep? he never issued any statement.
4. Why UPA PM says that Muslims have first right on Indian treasury?
5. Why the very existence of lord Rama was challenged by UPA?
these and many such other questions will have to be answered by the UPA before thinking of coming to govt again in 2009. You may be a supporter of congress, but there are many more for NDA.
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D Agrawal, good points.
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Oh Oh….. now we have to think of Pre Congress sometime and Post Congress sometime…
Simple… wrong facts…. you still have not answered why you ran away from the name WrongFacts….
Answer that first… lets debate the rest later..
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In my earlier list, following more points be added………….
6. Why Amarnath saga took place? Why first the ownership transferred to the shrine board and later taken back? Only to disregard Hindus.
7. Why time and again there are news in the media to discredit Hindu society in some way or the other?
8. Why the sachchar commetti incorporated? The army, which was the real secular organization till now, is made communal.
9. Why ‘Vande-mataram’ was not made national anthem? The slogan which gave a moral boost to our soldiers, is rejected by a section of our society, why? Who conspired this?
10. Elections in Kashmir, in Mizoram are fought on religious agenda, but that is secular. But if Ayodhya temple is included in the election manifesto, that is a communal agenda, why?
I can endlessly ask such question. If every body is ready to read.
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yes i am WrongFacts. wats ur problem?
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Chintaka
When people cannot argue with facts,they resort to below the belt tactics that the rightist elements are so famous for.
Some guy/gal is posting is repeatedly posting in my name. Clearly i know who that person is.
The posting where I have supposed to have admitted to being Wrongfacts is the handiwork of frustrated/desperate individuals.
I shall ignore this fraud.
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Palahalli,
1. Here is the exact words I had written in my earlier posting vis-a-vis your data:
“THe gobbledegook you have stated about hijacking statistics is not credible. ANybody can sit anywhere and create such fake statistics……Even if it is genuine, then it should surely qualify as minor. Because if it was major the press would have picked it up and they haven’t ever.”
Note: I have added a rider saying EVEN IF IT IS GENUINE, it should qualify as minor. Since the press has not picked it up, i am well within my rights to say it is minor. It’s a question of perspective. I think it is minor because no media has picked it up. I won’t say it is major, just because you feel that i have to say it so.
Now, it is your turn to apologize to me, for exposing your lie.
2. You are, as usual being evasive. How can the BJP say that they will CONTINUE TO RELEASE TERRORISTS IN EXCHANGE OF HOSTAGES? Cong captures terrorists, BJP frees them. And you want me to believe BJP is tuff on terror.
3. Yea, right NDA is very mature. Right from their stubbborn opposition to the nuclear deal, much against the interests of the nation, right up to the latest spurning of an invitaion by the PM to Advani for an all party meeting. I mean, talking to each other is very important in a democracy. there is no other alternative. If the opposition leader says “i won’t talk.” how will we resolve issues? this is extremely immature.
4. I did not undersand what do you mean by ‘scope’.
5. The same economic times articles also states that the Centre took tuff stance against separitists leaders. THe centre ensured that the separitist leaders were under house arrests. The centre employed heavy forces to deter these separitists elements from creating any nuisance. It was the Centres tough action which saw to it that the boycott call to the assembly elections to J&K failed.
Full marks to UPA for taming the separtists and ensuring a majority of people voted in the elections , without fear or favour.
In contrast, a pathetic 40% percent voted under NDA, because NDA had neither any vision nor any control over kashmiri separtists.
Problem, with you Palahalli, is you cannot accept anything good about Congress EVEN IF IF GIVE YOU A SACFKFUL OF EVIDENCE EVERYDAY.
6. Number of terrorists killed are smaller under UPA simply because terrorism itself is on the wane.
You have a warped way of looking at data.
Let me clear the air.
If terrorists killed were smaller in number and number of civilans killed were higher, then i would agrree UPA Failed.
But here, civilans killed were much much fewer than under NDA and terrorists too were much smaller, thats because terrorirism itself is decling in J&K
7. Also i had given a dozen points about the muslim appeasment policies of NDA. and BJP in particular. you never bothered to answer it as usual. Why?
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Dr. Agarwal.
Thank you for your questions, which lack originality. You just parrot whatever that RSS and the BJP spokespersons blabber day in and day out
I will respond if you will care to respond to my earlier list of questions about Muslim appeasment policies of BJP>
Scroll back and see, i had written about 16 muslim appeasement policies of BJP. Answer them point by point and then i shall answer yours.
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Here is one more instance of muslim appeasing policies of BJP.
Times of India, Bangalore Edition, Friday, 2nd January 2008 Page 10, article titled,;
NITISH BID TO WOO MUSLIMS MAY REFLECT IN NEXT POLLS.
Nitish is the CM candidate supported by BJP. Nitish is trying every trick in the trade to appease muslims. Nitish is announcing hefty packages to Madaras, the breeding ground for terrorirists.
BJP is clearly supporting this blatant Muslim apppeasing intitatives, because they need power. t
BJP does not care about muslims being apppeased. they make good elections speeches to fool people like palahalli, chintaka and dr. agarwal and bari olu.
once bjp comes to power, they themselves start appeasing muslims.
that is the story of 2008
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Simple,
1. The question was about you calling my data “obscure”. Now you post something totally irrelevant to your own point! We were discussing Kashmir remember?? Not hijackings!
And now you make the preposterous and idiotic claim that these hijackings are “minor even if genuine”, only because YOU haven’t found them in newspapers?? I hope I’m not wasting my time debating with an unstable person!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hijacking_of_Indian_aeroplanes
I suggest you access a Central Library archive for these old newspapers!
2. I do not support Jaswant Singh and neither has the BJP done it. It is not the party policy on terrorism. It is my stance that the BJP must be uncompromising on terror.
3. The Nuclear deal is still not out of the woods. There is brilliant interview with Arun Shourie vs Karan Thapar. I suggest you spend 30 minutes on it. There is a whale of a difference between the BJP’s opposition and the Left’s. Please remember that it was the BJP and the BJS before it that have consistently supported alliances with Western democracies including Israel. The Congress copied that policy under N.Rao. Good for the Congress too!
Ha! ha! on the All Party Meeting! The BJP had already committed to supporting whatever good the Congress does against terror including framing of tough laws that the same idiot Congress had disbanded to showcase its suicidal liberalism!! Far cry from your “anti-appeasement” Congress!
Hand-holding in public would have done little else than please the likes of Simple!
4. Simple, either you think you are too clever or your opponents too dumb.
No one in Kashmir FEARS the “Separatists”. They FEAR the terrorists who KILL. Without the FEAR of Terrorists shooting them, it was realistic to go out and vote ignoring impotent calls for boycott!
To twist this into “taming” of terrorists by UPA is laughable!
You don’t say why terrorism in Kashmir is on the wane except to claim supposed tough postures by UPA! What did they do differently this time? Please tell me that. Placing fool “seperatists” under house arrest will dissuade killers??? Is that what you are claiming??
Was Pakistan and their killers frightened into submission only in Kashmir and not in Delhi, Ahmadabad, Bangalore, Mumbai, Assam…etc etc…??
5. The NDA and/or BJP is a fool if they appease Muslims! I DO NOT support them if they do it!! But to claim in reverse that Congress or UPA is great, is simply ludicrous beyond measure! You might want to look at D.Agrawal’s points instead of dumbly claiming it to be propaganda. After all, Congress carries the patent rights for appeasing Islam…and you know that!
The next time you post, I suggest you stick with the issues being debated instead of running with the goal posts!
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HEYYYY Simple AKA Wrong Facts….
Glad you accepted you were Wrongfacts.. not much time left before you accept your facts are also wrong!!!!
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Nitish is from JDU and he is not from BJP. NDA is a coalition and if one party endorses minority appeasement it doesnt necessarily mean the coalition supports that. Dont read too much into reduced militancy in J&K. There are multiple reasons which are very obvious and I need not explain that.
You brush aside all data provided by others and say ur data is perfect. whats the proof thats its not cooked up?? How do you confirm the veracity of the same?? You urself say its easy to cook up data. I can the say the same of ur data.
And regarding Mr.Agarwals statement, I think these are valid questions a responsible citizen of India will ask. Whether its binds to RSS ideology or marxist. It doesnt matter. If you wanna save ur face the best thing is to call the other persons talk baby talk and ignore. Its ok you can take more time to cook up some stupid bull shit :)
Regarding your 16 point appeasement plan. Its too naive and childish and doesnt deserve to be responded. But i will point out some fallacies in ur argument nevertheless.
1. Karnataka CM has given 150 crores to the minority fund. which is one of the reasons, minorities are assumed to be voting for BJP in these by elections. Congerss has NEVER EVER earmarked 150 crorres for muslims.
>> Muslims will not vote for BJP for sure nor is the BJP being complacent and assuming that it will get muslim votes for 150 crores.Its doin its job with responsibility. Nothing wrong. In case they didnt do anything you ll brand them fascists, neglected muslims n all. Congress have never earmarked 150 crores. Whats happening in Andhra?? Congress Govt. Pak flag hoisted in assam cong govt there???
2. in the April elections, Katta Subramanya Naidu, it was reported in MID DAY, that he sent Muslims to Ajmer for Dargah…wonder why he never sent hindus..because hindus are taken for granted.
>> Its shows maturity level that you even read papers like MID-DAY the Aaj Tak of english newspapers. :) Even if he sent hindus it might not have got reported, u know for the obvious reasons.
3. BJP’s sister organisation has called Modi as the Aurangzeb of India. You have zero defence against his act of demolishing 200 temples. CONGRESS HAS NEVER EVER DEMOLISHED EVEN ONE TEMPLE…and modi is soft on mosques and churches. never demolishes even a single one of them.
>>Demolishing illegal structures doesnt mean Minority appeasement you dim wit,
4. Advani has praised Jinnah several times. CONGRESS HAS NEVER DONE SUCH A THING TO WIN VOTES.
>> Advani praising Jinnah in Pakistan doesnt mean minority appeasement. If it is then you mean to say indian minorities adore Jinnah.
5. BJP supported a muslim candidate for president of india. while congress supported a hindu pratibha patil.
>> APJ has been a great president. He was chosen not because he was muslim, but he was able. Congress chose pratibha a criminal as a puppet and rubber stamp. Congress chose a muslim VP FYI.
6. just before karkare’s death, bjp went hammer and tongs against hemant karkare, the martyr who fought against islamic fundamentalists.
>>BJP went against Karkare , how does that account to minority appeasement Mr. DIM WIT??
7. 61% of people voted in this J&K assembly elections. compared to the pathetic 40 odd percent during the last time. Clearly normalcy has been restored under UPA, rather than the NDA. this statistic is glaring proof that nda was terrible in handling kashmir. back your arguments with credible facts, not manufactured facts, please.
>> as i said J&K turn out being high, reduced militancy have some obvious reasons, not that UPA is in power :)
8. So tell me why does BJP support narendra modi, inspite of courts expressing distrust against modi adminstration, and shifting several cases to Maharashtra?
>> BJP supports narendra modi. Does that mean appeasement of minorities or Hindus??
9.If you agree what BJP gets zero credit for Gujarat success, then i agree congress gets zero credit for elimination of punjab. yours is a weird logic, quite absurd. it is like saying you are a kannadiga but you are not indian.
>> Completely absurd statement.
10. I am amazed about your distorted facts and your ignorance of history. 1971war was won by India. Hello, wake up and smell the coffee. If india under the congress had not counter attacked pakistan, would we have won the war? According to your narrow, warped view, Congress should not have counter attacked pakistan for fear of losing domestic support. what a joke.
11. Congress gave tasleema nasreen visa twice over. it is another matter that she had to be pushed out when the left raised their shrill voice against it.
>> This is a self goal. Kicking out taslima is clearly minority appeasement by Cong under Left pressure. How does this prove to be BJPs appeasement of minorities?
12. congrss has done nothign to bring back M F Hussain.
>> Another typical simple self goal. Not bringing back MF is Hussain appeasement.
13. Congress has got back Abu Salem.
>> Oh. WOW. In September 2002, Salem was brought into custody by the Lisbon police for entering Portugal with the help of forged documents. He was then deported to India on Nov 11, 2005 when India promised Portugal that Salem would not receive death sentence. The process of his extradition was started by NDA.
14 Congress has ensured all the Muslims get convicted in Mumbai blasts case. 75% of them are muslims.
>> It also ensured ppl like antulay make statements that weaken our case, and the obviously the proof was so incrimination what else can you do.
15. Congress has ensured that all the muslims convcited in Coimbatiore blasts case, ge their due sentences….point is you people dont read the news. you just buy what the BJP Tells you what the truth is.
>> Congress is not the court. If there is incriminating evidence people will get convicted.
also, as i said, congress fails in communicating its achievements. while bjp over communicates its most trivial successes.
16. It was not just the RSS. NOT A SINGLE MEMBER FROM BJP SUPPORTED ADVANI in his Jinnah praising statements. What was the need to quote Jinnah? clearly, with an eye on the muslim vote bank.
>> Advani is entitled to have his own views. It took a few hours for the BJP and RSS to distance themselves from Advani. It took days for the congress to distance themselves from antulays stupid statements.
Talking good of some Pak leader does that mean minority appeasement??
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Palahalli
1. Yes, your first obscure data pertained to hijacking. Subsequentlyyour second obscure data pertained to terrorism in Kashmir. In both the instances, I had added a rider, saying that EVEN IF IT IS GENUINE…..
So i think you need to clear the cobwebs in your bigoted mind.
2. Jaswant Singh is ex home minister of BJP. The party has not distanced itself from what Jaswant Singh has made the remark. Clearly, BJP wants to continue to release terrorists in exchange of hostages.
Clearly, BJP is a weak party soft on terror.
3. THe nuclear deal is definitely out of the woods. It is one of the sterling achievements of UPA. your children should be grateful to congress for they will get uninterrupted power, 15 years from now, thanks to the historic nuclear deal with America. Just like you are grateful to congress for earning a fat salary today, thanks to economic liberalisation in 1991.
Do you know something dingbat? The whole world supported India’s nuclear deal with America, except left, BJP. and guess who else? Pakistan. Lefties are commies, they are irrelevant, considering their strength. BJP and Pakistan always seem to be on the same side. Whether on Jinnah issue or the nuclear deal.
Read Advani’s front page interview in Hindu, some three months back. Advani has conceded that contrary to popular perception, NDA DID NOT START THE INDO NUCLEAR DEAL.
3. See how trivial way you dismiss all party meeting. when the main opposition party does not want to discuss anything of such serious national importance, it shows his stature. it was only much later they agreed to the tough laws on terror bill, thanks to the criticisim of Advani by national media. Shame!
4. Dimwit palahalli, separitists have the power to forment trouble in Kashmir. Centre deployed thousands of military forces, and told the separitists in no uncertain terms that their mischief tactics wont be tolerated. THAT IS A REALLY TOUGH STANCE> Proof: Separitists had egg on their face. 62% vote is fantastic by any standard. thanks to congress. thanks to manmohan. thanks to saint sonia.
Can you tell me why was the voting percentage so low under NDA? Because NDA neither had the grand vision nor strategy to control the terror groups. Forget about controlling terrorists, the then NDA Prime Minister could not control his own home minister from making silly comments.
5. As usual, you did not bother to reply to the 16 points that i raised about BJP’s muslim appeasement policies. Clearly, it shows you are running away. Way to go.
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Chintaka
I have not accepted that i am wrongfacts.
Some jerk of a joker keeps posting his views in my name.
I know who it is.
Let him have his cheap thrills.
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Bari Olu
Either you are too naive or severely poisoned by right wing ideology..which is what explains your incoherent mumbo jumbo response to my 16 points.
Here goes.
1. BJP was a party to the cabinet decision of Nitish to increase funds for Madaras, which are a breeding ground for terror groups. IF BJP, on principle is against minority appeasment, do they have the guts to withdraw support to Nitish?
THe Left had the guts to withdraw support to UPA, because the left is not hungry for power.
Clearly, THE BJP has got an insatiable appetite for power, they are willing to compromise on their pet theme: Minority appeasement.
The stark truth: Minority appeasement makes for good election speeches to fool you, palahalli, chintaka and gang. BJP, just wants naked power, after it comes to power it starts appeasing minorites.
2. YOU sat Don’t read too much into reduced terror activities in Kashmir? Hello?: why not? Normalcy has been restored. Tourists are flocking in. Fewer people are being Killed. The people of Kashmir has given a resounding reply to Pakistan. With 62% voting in the assembly elections, CLEARLY THERE IS TOO MUCH TO CELEBRATE.
WE SHOULD CELEBRATE KASHMIR ELECTIONS WITH GREAT GUSTO. IT IS NOT A SMALL THING. IT IS A SLAP ON THE FACE OF PAKISTAN. KASHmiris have shown that kashmir belongs to india…it is a big big big big thing.
ALL NATIONALISTS, PATRIOTS and India lovers should and must celebrate this fantastic victory. and among other reasons, congress too played its party in restoring normalcy in Kashmir.
we should have a national VIJAY DAY for this purpose!
Jai Hindi. Kashmir Hamara Hai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3. Bari Olu, I never dismissed others statistics. I used Palahalli’s own statistics to put it around his neck. Like a fool, he showed his statistics, which clearly showed normalcy is being restored under UPA, rather than NDA.
4. So Mid day is like Aaj tak? You people have a problem with anyone who prints anti BJP stories. this is not a healthy sign of democracy.
5. Hahaha…if modi wanted to demolish illegal structures, why did he choose only illegal temples..and not illegal mosques and illegal churches? hahaha…..bari olu, you have no defense for this….and what do you have to say about what VHP, your own sister organisation told about Modi…
6. What was the need to praise Jinnah, who is much reviled in our country? Clearly, Advani wanted an image makeover, he wanted to become a pseudo secularist, to gain a larger vote share, in order to become PM. You must admit, congress has never ever praised Jinnah, so you should be a supporter of Congress not advani
7. Yea, it was the same Abdul Kalam, who came out in strong support of the nuclear deal. yet bjp opposed the nuclear deal, whining like a child because they could not clinch the deal. shame on such a childish stand!
BJP made kalam the president candidate not just because he was able. also because he was a muslim. Are you telling me that in one billion people, Kalam was the only able man to become president? what a joke.
Clearly, BJP had an eye on the vote bank of muslims. SInce their vote share has never grown beying 25%, they know what the need to get another 15% more vote share to get majority in parilament. and this 15% comes from Muslims.
8. Karkare acted strongly against a Hindu Sadhvi Pragya. By grandly announcing one crore rupees to Karkare, isn’t it minority appeasement? use your head for a change instead of parroting what RSS says.
9. BJP supports narendra modi, who demolished only illegal temples and not illegal mosques, isnt it minority appeasement?
10. Palahalli made that strange statement that it was not congress, but Beant Singh, a cong CM was responsible for elimination of terrorism in Punjab, Hence i told, Narendra Modi, and not BJP should be responsible for BJPs victory in Gujarat.
11. Congress is not getting MF Hussain back to India, because it does not want to offend hindus. clearly Congress iS NOT INTO MINORITY APPEASEMENT. because if it wanted minority votes, it would have got back MF Hussain. Now you get the point, you duffer?
12. India won the 1971 war against Pakistan. Clearly, congress could have gone soft against pak, but Cong ensured India won. Cong did not bother about Muslim votes in India, but they attacked Pakistan and INdia won. Jai Hind.!
13. Tasleema was give visa twice by Congress. Thats because congress did not care about Muslim votes.
My points were a blend of two things: One was to show that Congress was NOT INTO minority appeasement. And the other was to show that BJP is into MINORITY appeasement. Get that you thickhead?
14. Again a non thinking remark. NDA may have started Abu Salem extradition. But UPA, got him back. Clearly, because Cong is not into muslim votes. if they had an eye on the muslim votes, they could have gone slow on the extradition process or cancelled it altogether. get it?
15. In MUmbai blast and Coimbatore blasts, Congress enssured that they appointed a strong public prosector. It was the strong case built by the public prosecutor which enscured that all the muslim terrorists were sentenced harshly by the courts. Full Marks to Congress for ensuring that the guilty terrorists were sentenced.
16. Funny, your cheddi mate, Palahalli disowns jaswant singhs remarks, but you rake up antulays remarks. Here is an eye opener for you. Congress CONDEMNED ANTULAYS REMARKS> BUT BJP HAS NOT CONDEMNED JASWANT SINGHS REMARKS.
17. Calling Jinnah as a secular person is laughable, condemnable. I don’t say that. Every BJP minister, every BJP party member, Every VHP member, every Bajrang dal member, Every RSS member, told that.
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Simple – Half the time you’re talking to yourself. The other half, your either rubbishing what are well known facts or misrepresenting them.
1. You have nothing to say about the Hijackings you called “minor”.
2. Jaswant Singh was Foreign Minister Simple. And yes, the BJP has not supported him.
http://www.zeenews.com/nation/2008-12-19/492413news.html
3. But I’m very surprised that a “tough” one like you who considers Airline Hijackings “minor”…should even be bothered about what Jaswant said.
4. Your comprehension skills are the pits. The Nuclear deal is very controversial. The BJP would have had no ground for opposition if it had been transparent. Bush’s letter to the Congress, the Hyde act etc make it less so. As far as Pakistan is concerned, guess what? Pakistan is also opposed to Hindus and their organizations. Just like your Congress!
5. Your mai-baap attitude to Congress comes up very clearly. You feel indebted to them huh? I rise or fall because of the quality of my work.
6. On tough laws, you blabber incoherently as usual. It was not the BJP that abolished POTA and it was not the BJP that tried to stop UAPA. Ask your country cousins in the secular brigade!
7. Yes, on Kashmir I agree that this idiot government is capable of deploying thousands of troops to dissuade and put under house arrest separatists. Obviously killer Muslims with guns and grenades were no concern for this government…because they weren’t there in Kashmir! You of course will inflate their ego to suit your crazed logic! Something the Congress is so good at historically.
8. Bari Olu has taken care of your 16 points. Read them.
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Simple – I think we’ve been debating for long enough. So, i’d like to summarize what I think to be common points and areas where we can agree provided you help with explicit evidence –
1. Madrasas, Simple says, are breeding grounds for terrorists. I agree.
My proposal is that these and all across this country, Madrasas be banned.
Does the Congress agree?
Does the BJP agree?
Does Simple agree?
2. Voter turn-out in Kashmir should be applauded. I agree.
Since this has been achieved by pinning down Kashmiri separatists and maintaining our troop presence in Kashmir, I propose that this continue till such time as Kashmir fully integrates. I also propose all features like Art. 370 etc, that keep Kashmir seperate be abolished.
Does the Congress agree?
Does the BJP agree?
Does Simple agree?
3. Simple is upset about Modi demolishing only illegal Temples and not Mosques and Churches. I agree with him. I propose that all illegal religious structures be demolished across the country.
Does the Congress agree?
Does the BJP agree?
Does Simple agree?
4. Simple proposes the idea that anybody who claims Jinnah’s first speech as Gov. General was Secular, appeases Muslims. I agree. I propose that all such people be named and condemned, including Gandhi who wanted him as India’s first Prime Minister. We can compile a list if agreed.
Does the Congress agree?
Does the BJP agree?
Does Simple agree?
5. Simple suggests that supporting Abdul Kalam’s candidature was an overture to Muslims by the BJP. I agree. I propose Vice President Ansari resigns forthwith.
Does the Congress agree?
Does the BJP agree?
Does Simple agree?
6. Simple suggests that Modi was appeasing Muslims by announcing the posthumous award of money. I agree. I propose that any reward or award for Karkare be denied. If given now under Congress regime, this award be withdrawn if/when the NDA comes to power.
Does the Congress agree?
Does the BJP agree?
Does Simple agree?
7. On victory in Gujarat, Simple suggests it is Modi’s and not the BJP’s. I agree fully. Now, Simple must bite the bullet and admit that peace in Punjab was a Beant and Gill victory and not a Congress one. I have already cited Gill’s evidence. Simple can cite his evidence to the contrary, if he does not agree.
8. Simple asserts that Congress does not want MF Hussain to return because he offends Hindus. I agree. I propose that this secret be made public or Simple may cite ANY source as evidence.
9. Simple continues to assert that “Congress” attacked Pakistan in 1971 and not vice versa with Pakistan attacking India on its Western front. I disagree. However, I am willing to concede to Simple if he provides evidence from ANY source. Simple also strongly implies that Muslims would have been offended by the “Congress” attack on Pakistan. I request Simple to cite any Congressman who has suggested the same. I am willing to concede Simple this argument also if evidence is forthcoming.
10. Simple claims that Congress has supported Taslima Nasreen. Good. However, I request Simple to provide evidence from ANY source that supports his claim. Taslima had applied for Permanent Resident permit, instead her Visa was extended for 6 months with a caveat from the External Affairs Ministry to the effect that, ”she does not undertake actions that could hurt the sentiments of the many communities that make up our multi-religious and multi-ethnic nation.” I would like to know if Simple supports this caveat. And if this caveat does not appease Muslims.
11. Simple agrees that the NDA started the extradition process wrt Abu Salem. And he also informs us that Congress getting him here is testimony that it does not appease Muslims. By the same logic, will Simple agree that the NDA was not appeasing Muslims by starting the legal procedure in the first place? Simple also seems to suggest that Muslims would have been offended by this criminal’s arrest. I would like to hear him say so categorically. And he will have my support.
12. Great job on Mumbai and Coimbatore sentencing! I agree. However, I don’t recall the BJP protesting this sentencing. Can Simple provide ANY evidence?
13. On Antulay, does Simple deny that Congress has rationalized Antulay’s statement, thereby allowing them to retain him? Also, Simple agrees, by implication, that Antulay imputed a conspiracy in Karkare’s death. This accusation suited Pakistan so well, they used it extensively. Does Simple deny this fact?
On Kandahar, I have always wanted to hear from Simple ANY source that tells me Congress was all for sacrificing those 166 hostages. I’m still waiting.
**************
Henceforth, Simple will be taken seriously ONLY if he responds point by point to my posts, like I do to each of his posts and with evidence rather than “his personal opinions”. I would like to see evidence from ANY source, for his claims. Of course, the same rule applies to me.
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Palahalli
You have a unique flair for distorting facts to suit your kind of argument.
1. What hijackings are you talking about? did it receive enormous press coverage? Kindly elaborate which media picked up these hijackings? As usual i am sure you have zero facts, hence your credibility is repeatedly taking a beating.
2. If the BJP has not supported Jaswant Singh and it says so in one channel, I must remind you that Antulay’s remarks were loudly disowned by Congress and it was there in all the hundred channels and print media.
3. My comprehension skills are the pits when it comes to nuclear deal? cool, so you are actually saying Abdul Kalam’s comprehension;s skill is the pits because he supported nuclear deal? Abdul Kalam knew as much as BJP did…..yet he supported the nuclear deal. What trash transparency are you talking about? Whatever transparency was available, it was praised BY THE BIG MAN ABDUL KALAM. Jai hind. Jai nulcear deal.
I respect adbul kalam, people of india respect abdul kalam more than BJP. i am sure his words weigh much better than your right wing party.
Congress is against Hindus you said? I am amazed at your inability to think originally. Repeatdly you are exposing your half formed brain to everybody.
I have given 16 instances to show cong is NOT SOFT on Muslims, neither are they harsh on Hindus. I am sure it is beyond your comprehension to answer those points. you are clearly defenceless you see.
4. What do you mean mai-baap attitude to congress? i have toldyou a zillion times, i go by facts. mere facts. i follow reason and logic to appraise a party’s performance. I have severly criticised the congress on several occasions, but i have also given them their due credit whenever they deserve.
On the other hand, you HAVE NEVER SAID A SINGLE POSITIVE THING about congress. About Congress’s phenomenal achievement in economic liberalisation, in nulcear bombing (under Indira), in clinching nuclear deal, in boosting space research, in sending satellite to moon, in green revolution, in creating IISC, IIM, IIT, in creating several public navratnas…the list is endless….but YOU NEVER SAY ANYTHING GOOD ABOUT CONGRESS.
Which makes me suspect, that some doctor (spin doctor ) is injecting a big dose of anti congress venom in your system, everyday.
You are neither objective, nor sensible. you just rile and rile and rile sans rhyme or reason.
5. POTA was surely tough. no wonder so many terror attacks happened under NDA.
6. You call this govt as an idiot govt. This is the govt. which reduced terrorism in kashmir. it brought about normalcy. It showed the world that Kashmir is a part of India. It made sure kashmiris voted without fear or favour. It showed pakistan its place. It made India proud.
Under NDA, an embarrasing 42% voted in Kashmir. Under UPA an impressive 62% voted (even if congress’s tough action is one of the hazar reasons for restoring of normalcy, it still is an INCREDIBLE achievement for all INDIANS, for INDIA and congress) Jai Hind.. We need more patriots to appreciate what Congress has done.
Congress PDA govt took several steps to provide the healing touch in kashmir. this is also one of the reasons why kashmir has almost returned to normal. Unlike BJP which always forments trouble.
Pakistan does not know where to hide after the results in Kashmir. You still havent told me WHY THE VOTING PERCENTAGE WAS SO PATHETIC UNDER NDA?
7. I have replied to Bari Olu’s 16 points.
8. Remember, four of you are pouncing one me. it is 4 vs 1.
Agarwal, palahalli, bari olu and chintaka. Yet, none of you have been able to argue with any semblence of logic or structure.
Be imaginative guys, think originally. accept bjp’s faults, praise congress achievements where it is due. instead of allowing your blind, inborn hatred against congress, think sensibly.
And,
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Palahalli
I have replied to Bari Olu’s 16 points. I hope you have checked it. I have also made 8 other points in my earlier posting. You have not reverted on that.
Thank you for giving me your 13 points. Here is your point by point rebuttal.
1. Some (not all) Madarasas are breeding ground for terrorists. I agree tough action needs to be taken. But Congress has always been accused of being soft on Muslims, so it is not a big surprise that they are not taking tough action on Madarasas
Why is BJP not taking any action against Madarasas? Worse, they actively encouraged and supported NItish Kumar in doling out crores of rupees to Bihar Madarass.
BJP is actively supporting Madarasas,
Cong is being neutral.
I agree some Madarasas who forment trouble ought to be banned.
2. Thank you for agreeing that voter turnout in Kashmir has to be applauded. but I note again that YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN CONGRESS ITS DUE FOR RESTORING NEAR NORMALCY IN KASHMIR. I won’t take you seriously if you don’t give credit when stark evidence points to the truth.
Cong is for discussion on 370.
BJP did nothing when it was in power on 370. So they are on weak ground.
I think 370 should go.
3. I don’t know what cong thinks about illegal structurse.
I know what BJP thinks about illegal structures – they want to demolish only illegal temples, and not illegal mosques and churches. This is clear pseudo secularism at its worst.
I think all illegal structures should be demolished.
4. Cong has not condemned Gandhi vis-a-vis your point number 4
BJP has not condemend Gandhi.
I will criticize Gandhi where it is due. Probably if you elaborate this point, i have no hesitation in criticizing Gandhi.
5. I don’t know Congress’s mind on Abdul Kalam
I know BJP for sure appeased Muslims by naming Abdul Kalam
I know Congress appeased Muslims by naming a muslim as Vice President.
I don’t think current VP should resign, because it is a no win situation. Both BJP and Cong are appeasing Muslims. Proof is that both put Muslim candidates as President and Vice President. So clearly BJP is no better than Congress.
6. Cong has not announced any reward for anybody.
A state CM (over riding the authority of the president of BJP and the PM in waiting) announced a reward for a man, who took tough action against Sadhvi Pragya. This is clear muslim appeasement.
I believe martyrs should be given their due credit, but not at the cost of appeasing muslims.
7. Thank you for agreeing Modi and BJP are two separte entities.
However, elimination of punjab terrorism is not black and white. It is a series of cummulative efforts of Mrs Gandhi, Beant Singh and Gill. You cannot say Mrs Gandhi had no role at all whatsovever. Her operation Blue Star and Black Thunder is evident (since you wanted evidence) that SHE WAS BRUTALLY TOUGH ON TERROR IN PUNJAB.
8. There is no point in stating the obvious. MF Hussain has hurt Hindu sentiments. and Cong is not doing anything to get him back. Intelligent voters can understand that Cong is not being soft on MF Hussain.
9. I have told many number of times, India COUNTER ATTACKED pakistan. Do you understand the word counter? It was a retaliation.
Man, again your argument is boomeranging on you.
It was you who suggested that Congress supported Yaseer Arafat, because they wanted to appease Muslim votes in India. Show me one instance where a Congressman has said that . After which I shall give you evidence for what you asked for.
But clearly you don’t have an analytical mind. If Cong COUNTER attacked Pakistan, would not Indian Muslims have been offended? But Cong gave two hoots to that. They COUNTER attacked Pakistan and INDIA WON! Jai HIND!
10. Cong gave Nasreen visa twice. Isn’t that evidence? do you want me to produce a physical copy of the visa? Man, you are hairsplitting now.
If you agree that Cong did not do enough to bring back MF Hussain in order to appease Hindus
If you agree that Cong put up a Hindu lady as President of india in order to appease Hindus,
If you agree that Cong distanced itself from Antulay’s remarks in order to appease Hindus,
If you agree that Cong did not support Abdul Kalams candidature a second time in order to appease Hindus,
Then I agree that the caveat in Nasreen’s visa was muslim appeasement
COng is into Hindu and Muslim appeasement. BJP also the same.
11. NDA started Abu Salem Extrdition, Cong got him back. BUt cong was not expected to get him back because of minority vote. yet the disproved one and all.
I am suggesting that Muslim votes would have swung away from Cong becaue you are suggesting that Muslim votes would have swung away from Cong in the palestine case.
12. BJP did not protest against the mumbai and coimbatore sentencing. INEVER SAID SO> YOU ARE ASSUMING THINGS.
MY POINT WAS DIFFERENT. The stigma that Cong carries about Muslim appeasement has been proven false. Also I note that YOU HAVE STILL NOT APPRECIATED CONG ON MUMBAI AND COIMBATORE BLASTS. you just say great job. come on, spell it out. great job by whom?
13. Antulay was severly censured by the high command. I dont support his statements.
14. On Kandahar,
first you MUST AGREE that BJP was terribly inept and weak in handling terror, because they crawled when asked to bend. they meekly submitted.
FIRST YOU MUST AGREE THAT BJP’s home minister was sleeping when JASWANT SINGH escorted these terrorists. Because advani claimed he was not aware!
First you must AGREE that VAJPAYEE did not have enough trust in Advani to tell him that jaswant singh was escorting the terrorirsts.
First if you agree to the above, then i shall agree that no congman suported the sacrificing of hostages (that is if i cannot provide evidence)
15. In my next posting, I shall give you points for which you have to answer failing which i shall dismiss you as a has been.
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Simple –
1.You don’t know which Madrasas are guilty.
– Given the above fact, you accuse the BJP and Nitish but absolve the Congress of guilt. Why? Because the Congress “has always been accused of being soft on Muslims”! Strange logic!
2. Voter turn-out, nothing to do with Congress policy. Congress policy gave us the Amarnath crisis and the loss of it’s own seats to the BJP in this election. Voter turn-out was due to lack of Muslim killer activity.
Evidence –
a. ET article you quoted earlier.
b. http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/jandk/index.html
“Cong is for discussion on 370.” – Where is the evidence?
3. You don’t know Congress policy on illegal religious structures.
– Then you cannot defend it for “not demolishing” illegal structures.
If it is illegal, it must go.
4. Fact – On Gandhi’s proposal to make Jinnah, first PM.
The entire Hindu movement has criticized it. Not just the BJP.
Evidence – “Tragic Story of Partition” – H.V. Sheshadri
5. Fact – When you don’t know Congress “mind” on Kalam (btw, they opposed in favor of Pratibha P), how do you accuse the BJP of “appeasement”?
Question – Which action of Kalam can be construed “pro-Muslim” so as to accuse BJP of pandering to Muslims?
Btw – Ansari opposed India’s vote against Iran in the UN on the Nuclear issue. So, we know his mind.
Evidence – http://www.hindu.com/2007/07/21/stories/2007072161771600.htm
Where is your evidence for Congress supporting Pratibha in order to “appease” Hindus? A Hindu heading India is not called appeasement Simple. It’s called being natural.
6. When you believe Martyrs should be given credit, how do you avoid giving credit to Karkare? Are you suggesting Modi or anybody “giving” credit to Karkare should have done so secretly?
On the flip side, I take it you support Sadhvi Pragnya and her associates. Good. I agree.
7. Fyi, Black Thunder happened in 1986.
As for Indira being “tough” on terrorists, it’s a big myth.
How did Bhindranwale grow?
Evidence – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Thunder
http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/publication/nightsoffalsehood/falsehood1.htm
8. Evidence please, of Congress being against MF Hussain.
My evidence – See Abhishek Singhvi http://www.tehelka.com/story_main37.asp?filename=Ne020208the_master.asp
Btw, his lawyer is Kapil Sibal’s son.
9. Yes, you have got the “counter” part of attack right.
As far as Arafat is concerned –
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2125/stories/20041217000405900.htm
10. On Nasreen, there is a BIG difference between a 6 month visa and Permanent Resident Permit. It’s not called hairsplitting; it’s called “Simple avoiding a sticky situation!”)
11. On Antulay, Congress rationalized his statement to suit it’s purposes.
Evidence – If you need more, just ask!
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/20mumterror-antulay-congress-caught-between-terror-and-votebank.htm
“COng is into Hindu and Muslim appeasement. BJP also the same.”
– Sorry. No one can beat the Congress at this monopoly.
12. Why was the Congress not expected to get Abu Salem back? Then admit also that all Muslims support Abu Salem. Do you admit it?
13. It’s silly that you demand credit for Congress in Mumbai and Coimbatore. In that case I must give DMK (UPA ally)credit in Coimbatore, do you agree?
14. You DO NOT have evidence that Congress supported the sacrifice of hostages in 1999! I challenge you.
On the BJP’s handling of Kandahar, show me where I have supported them.
Now to your “8 points”.
1. What qualifies a ‘minor” hijacking? Are you denying that these hijackings took place?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hijacking_of_Indian_aeroplanes
2. Listen kid, Congress has a loud mouth; it may need a hundred channels :) and then finally to rationalize Antulay’s statement!
3. The BJP does not oppose the deal. It has questions that the Congress has not bothered to address. Is it that complicated for you?
4. Don’t bother about getting my support for Congress. I’m not that important :) Worry about your defense of the Congress right now.
5. Yeah…another shameless backward flip on POTA! First the blasted Congress abolishes it and then implements the same with a different name!
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2122/stories/20041105004811000.htm
6. What healing touches did the Congress provide in Kashmir? Why was any “healing” touch necessary at all?? Explain this.
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Palahalli
1. You say all Madarasas should be banned, Yet you do not dare to criticize JDU BJP GOVT which gave crores of rupees to Madarasas in Bihar. Total Hypocrisy and typical double speak of the sangh parivar. Strange you never criticize this aspect of BJP
2. Among other reasons,Voter turnout was high in Kashmir because of the STRONG action of the centre. Evidence: Read Economic Times same article thoroughly . It says so in that many words.
Voter turnout was high because terror activities declined during UPA rule in centre and PDA and Cong rule in Kashmir
Evidence: The statisitical table you sent me
3. Cong demolished illegal structures in Delhi. So Cong is for demolishing illegal structures. When it comes to religious structures, they rather stay neutral demolishing neither temples or mosques. But BJP only wants to demolish temples. Strange you never criticize BJP’s blatant attempt to appease Muslims by demolishing only Hindu temples.
4. Gandhi might have been wrong in suggesting Jinnah’s name as the PM. Jinnah represented 15% of the population. So it is definitely wrong. Just like BJP was wrong in making Kumarswamy the CM, even though JDS had about fourty seats less than BJP. It is a classic case of tail wagging the dog.
5. Cong opposed Kalam for second term. Clear that they did not want to have a muslim president for 10 years in a nation of 85% hindus. But BJP had no qualms of having a muslim president for 10 years in a PREDOMINANTLY Hindu Country.
You produce evidence to say any single member of BJP saying that they want to appease Hindus (in exactly so many words) and I shall produce evidence for cong wanting to appease Hindus on Pratibha Patil case. Such things, remember palahalli are never ever told blatantly by any political party. Neither will BJP say that they want to appease Hindus, nor will Congress say the same thing. You sure don’t have an iota of political shrewdness No wonder you are stuck to blogging your frustrations.
6. Karkare should have been credit for both – for acting tough on Hindu fundamentalists as well as Muslim terrorists. BJP changed its tongue on Karkare. They bashed him when he went against Hindu Sadhvi, but they praised him when he acted tough on terrorists. This is typical double speak and hypocrisy of Sangh Parivar. Repeatedly it has been exposed. Strange you don’t say a thing.
7. 1986, cong was in power. Black thunder happened under cong. Blue star and black thunder happened under cong. What other evidence you need? Of course Indira created Bhindranwale, but she got him killed too. It’s a bit like the film Mother India. Nargis shoots her own son. She created her son, but she kills him with her own bare hands. While Nargis is applauded for her heroics, Indira is criticized. Shame on you, with such overwhelming evidence you still do not praise Indira Gandhi’s tough action.
8. Your evidence against MF Hussain, please point out the exact words instead of shoving 10, 000 words in my face.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/29interview-mehbooba-mufti-pdp-jammu-kashmir.htm
9. Thank you for agreeing with me that India counter attacked Pak. Which means you agree that Cong did not care about Indian muslim votes, but went ahead and won the war.
As far as Arafat is concerned, what is the evidence you have given me? Show me the exact words told by a Congman that they want to appease Indian Muslims, hence they will support Yaseer Arafat.
10. Of course there is a big difference between giving six month visa (twice or thrice) and giving a permanent resident visa. Palahalli, you are surely exhibiting your naiveness time and again. No citizen can be given permanent status immediately. There is a process. And Cong was following the process. Besides the fundamental point is : WHY DID CONG GIVE EVEN THE SIX MONTH VISA TO A WOMAN WHO HAS ALLEGEDLY WRITTEN NEGATIVE THINGS HER RELIGION? Clearly you are stripped naked of your defense. Full marks to Congress for not caring for Muslim fundamentalists, yet giving her visa twice.
11. That is not evidence what you are giving me. Most of the so called evidence you give me is ACTUALLY THE VIEW OF A PERSON. Palahalli, you need to educate yourself first. There is a difference between a glaring fact and the view of a person. Laughable you don’t know such elementary differences. I have given you so many instances to prove cong is not into appeasement politics while BJP is into that kind of thing. Yet with overwhelming evidence, you don’t wanna listen.
12. On BJP’s handling of Kandhar, I am glad you finally agreed that the party was hopeless in that kind of situation. Yet you strangely say they are tough. You are riven with contradictions. Since you agree that you do not support BJP in kandahar, and that they were horribly weak and inept, I shall agree that no cong minister demanded sacrificing hostages.
Other 8 points
1. I asked you to point out one mainstream media which picked up this hijacking stories as front page news.
2. Cong has loud mouth? Or the BJP? This party is known for its over the top communication skills. They create a hullabaloo out of nothing. That is an open secret that Cong is dumb in communication, and BJP is oversmart in communication. Hazar political commentators have told us that. Evidence : read Tehelka June issue, interview with Arun Jaitely.
3. The BJP did not support the nuclear deal purely out of narrow political compulsions. They put party first, nation second. Unless Abdul Kalam. He put Nation First. Which is why he supported nuclear deal.
4. Worry? Me? About Cong Defense? The ball is back in your court. Worry about how to defend the indefensible acts of BJP.
5. What Flip Flop? It is a jaundiced view of some reporter. Not a fact. I can give you enough reports to show POTA hasn’t worked…..like Parliament attack, Akshardham attack….and a hundred others under NDA
6. Healing touch was necessary to bring back normalcy to Kashmir, which used to see pandits and other civilians being killed with regular frequency in Kashmir under NDA
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Ayyo taleharte mundede SIMPLE,
Yest self goals hodkotya.
>> I know BJP for sure appeased Muslims by naming Abdul Kalam
I know Congress appeased Muslims by naming a muslim as Vice President.
>>I don’t think current VP should resign, because it is a no win situation. Both BJP and Cong are appeasing Muslims. Proof is that both put Muslim candidates as President and Vice President. So clearly BJP is no better than Congress.
Whats this?? All the while u said congress doesnt appease muslims and now, you say Cong and BJP does.
You need to understand that no hardcore muslim will vote for BJP or has voted. Thats because of obvious reasons, vilification campaign against BJP by “secular parties” pointing to godhra and babri masjid. So it would be very suicidal on part of BJP to try consolidating minority vote instead of majority vote. :) As some one said in another post you really need one mental doctor.
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Simple – I’ll have to keep repeating things for you now huh?
1. BJP and Muslims – Yeah. I agree they should have spoken against Nitish’s scheme. The problem with the BJP and even the RSS sometimes, is that they tend to think like the Congress. They try the same tricks. But the Muslims will never vote for the BJP. They know better. They continue to hitch onto the Congress or the Congress lookalikes like SP etc..They know which side of their bread will get buttered. They seem to be smarter than a Simple”ton” I’m debating with :)
Evidence – Check Muslim voting patterns across any election.
You know, you constantly debate with straw men. Show me the post where I have supported the BJP blindly. The problem with you seems to be not that you support Congress blindly but you don’t know when to support them. You are also very convenient with facts and foist you’re so-called “understanding” onto others.
Evidence – Read you’re posts about me “supporting” the BJP. Read your responses about my evidence of Congress complicity in Punjab, and this coming straight from the horse’s mouth, KPS Gill! You don’t have the guts to say Gill is wrong, do you? So you simply ignore his evidence!
You crib constantly about me not having one good word for the Congress. Know what? The Congress under Nehru and his godforsaken family has been the worst thing that’s happened to this country. Narasimha Rao, yeah, he was good with brains. I can give him credit. Not the other goombahs including MM Singh…the pansy!
2. Kashmir again! Its good luck for the Congress and the PDP that Pakistan was pre-occupied these recent few years. Else we would have similar high numbers killed.
Evidence – http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/jandk/index.html
Go through it and comment with reference to that. Even your ET article does not say anything different in essence.
3. Illegal “religious” structures. This is what you’re screwed up Congress is good for! http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/may/04guj2.htm
The VHP’s attitude is no better…but then I don’t know if it was killing two birds with one stone. The truth is illegal structures must go. But our people are very religious and they are protective about their Temples. As days go by, illegal constructions also get “legitimized” by common consent. But the challenge also is that this cannot be allowed. It will take harshness and pragmatism. Numbskull Congress will never understand this. They love to belly-up and play dead when faced with tough decisions…or they go and do something totally ridiculous that gets their “leaders” killed!
You’re charge that BJP has appeased Muslims is utter trash! How many extra Muslims will vote for Modi, if at all, you think?
4. On Jinnah and Gandhi, I’ll say this. Don’t confuse Political Majorities/Minorities with Religious Majorities/Minorities. They each follow different logic. And please don’t forget. Hindus and Muslims are two different Nations.
5. On Kalam, you’re accusations, again, are ridiculous in the extreme! Kalam is hardly a Muslim. Have you ever heard him defend the Quran by citing contexts? Or defend Islamic countries? Or oppose Western Democracies using that favorite liberal cuss word “Imperialist”? On the other hand how much of Hinduism he has imbibed. This is what endeared him to the BJP. If they wanted to appease Muslims, they could have nominated Syed Shahabuddin or his lookalikes, couldn’t they? Kalam cannot be compared to pissant Ansari.
6. Again, idiocy on Karkare. Karkare died fighting. Moreover, he was out there in the line of fire! He earned and deserved the BJP’s praise and respect. Of course his handling of Malegaon was sloppy and riddled with controversies of his own making. Daily press briefings, the stupid mess on Samjhauta Express (Pakistan was happy though!)…completely uncalled for. Allegations of torture…so much so that the Court put the accused under Judicial custody! And yet you continue you’re nonsensical tirade!
7. Again Punjab and the dang-blasted Indira! Do you know how many lives you’re “Nargis” cost? What the hell are you talking I say?! You’re Congress is used to acting as if India’s concerns are actually affairs of its kitchen…but people are simply sick and tired of it! High time you start thinking straight.
8. Again MF Husain – http://www.tehelka.com/story_main37.asp?filename=Ne020208the_master.asp
Abhishek Singhvi – “Ask Abhishek Singhvi of the Congress, and you only get the workaday line: There’s no doubting Husain’s eminence, but India is a democratic country and everyone has the right to protest and dissent. He should not be harassed etc. But what about the violence on the street, you ask. If the miscreants can be found, he says, of course they must be arrested, but law and order is a State subject.”
The BJP’s stance – http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=118&page=2
My own position is that Husain must not be hounded but given the freedom to paint Ayesha and Mohammed in the nude…one riding on the other!
9. 1971 again! There is no limit to you’re naiveté, ie, if you’re not faking it! How can fighting Pakistan and winning the war against it be in consequence or defiance of Muslims? They simply do not matter! Moreover, West Pakistan was butchering Muslims in East Pakistan. Can you connect?
What you really want to ask is why Congress and its leftist pals cozied up to Islamic barbarians in the Middle East including Iran.
Brings us to Arafat, doesn’t it? Read!
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl2125/stories/20041217000405900.htm
“When the Palestine Liberation Organization and its leader Yasser Arafat were vilified as being “terrorist”, India allowed the PLO to open an office in its capital. In the early 1970s, delegations representing the PLO and Al Fatah, its main constituent, started making regular visits to India and soon built strong links with the Congress and the Left parties. A veteran Palestinian diplomat, who was part of the first Al Fatah delegation to India, recalled that all the political parties barring the Jan Sangh welcomed it. The Jan Sangh, the earlier avatar of the the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), organised a demonstration outside the hotel in which the delegates stayed.”
On the Congress connexion – Read full article – http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/01102001/37.htm
Mani Shankar Aiyer – Union Minister of Development of North East Region (DONER)
10. On Taslima, read her plea – http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=44103
The Congress plays it’s game!
http://www.rationalistinternational.net/archive/en/rationalist_2008/20080318.html
11. Kandahar again! This is what I said way back in 17 December 2008.
“Simple, you can redeem yourself by posting one single statement from the Congress supporting the sacrifice of hijacked passengers.
But I can agree with the position that there must be no surrender of killers under any circumstances.”
Thanks for waking up after more than 20 days and many posts reiterating the same!
And after admitting that the Congress would not have sacrificed those hostages, I hope you won’t talk foolishly about Congress being tougher in this situation.
12. On the other Hijackings. God, I must have patience with Simple! ARE YOU DENYING THEM? WHAT IS YOU’RE DEFINITION OF A “MINOR” HIJACKING??!
13. Let’s not discuss the Nuclear deal. We are not competent. If you persist, then explain Bush’s letter to the Congress and the tell me about the implications of the Hyde act on the deal. Better still, watch Arun Shourie roast Karan Thapar on his own barbeque.
14. POTA – UAPA : Since you are convinced POTA did not work, shall we conclude that UAPA will not work? And why not? What a foolish argument! Can you cite some expert who is knowledgeable?
15. On Pandits and Kashmir – Fyi, Pandits were expelled from Kashmir by 1990! I think you should ask them what they feel about the Congress!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panun_Kashmir
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Bari Olu
When i said cong does not appease muslims i meant it on certain points like Mumbai Coimbatore blasts prosecution. Like counter attacking Pakistan. Like not demolishing temples in gujarat.
Bari Olu
You may give a few instances in which cong is into minority appeasement BUT I have given several instances where I can say cong is into minority appeasement.
Similialy there was a myth that BJP is not into minority appeasement. BUt through my constant reams of EVIDENCE, i have exposed the naked truth”:
BJP is far worse than Congress when it comes to appeasing minorities.
You need a mental doctor for constantly supporting BJP which is a glaring pseudo secular party.
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If you look at the evidence, the number of minorities supporting BJP is increasing every year. Just election statistics.
In karnataka this year several minorites in North Karnataka have opted for BJP.
In the coming years, as the minority appeasing tactics of BJP increases, more and more muslims will vote for BJP.
I have given a dozen instances of BJP appeasing the minorities. You must realise that BJP will NEVER EVER say that they are appeasing minoriteis for fear of alienating Hindus
Neither will Congress make a charge against BJP that they are appeasing muslims, because in that case, they feel muslims will see the point and vote for BJP.
Understand?
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Palahalli and Bari Olu.
Update your statisitics
Stark Truth: 25% karnatka muslims voted for BJP in 2008, compared to an insignificant number in 1995.
You must know that the number of muslims voting for BJP is going up in every election.
Check Statistics..just after Babri Masjid demolition very very very few muslims voted for BJP.
today almost 15 years later, a very healthy 25% of Muslims are voting for BJP. I am talking about Karnataka specifically.
Clearly, BJP’s muslim appeasement politics are working.
Evidence: http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/may/29inter.htm
As for your other dumb points, i shall revert later.
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Atleast i am happy that you accept that congress is into minority appeasement. Earlier you were shouting congress doesnt appease at all:) Lemme tell you one thing, congress minority appeasement policies since independence will run into reams of papers. I dont have time to do that. As i said you have some serious problem in analysing things and you cant see the obvious:)
And regarding 25% muslims voting for BJP in karnataka doesnt necessarily mean minority appeasement. Nor does it give a picture on India or overall muslim voting patterns.
I am not surprised if North karnataka muslims voted for BJP because there is a greater degree of Bhaichara in NK, thanks to people of the likes of shishunala sharifa etc. You should know there are lots of dargahs and temples in NK which are visited by both communities.I would really be surprised if 25% muslims voted for the BJP in Shivajinagar.
And regarding the dumb points, I can only say you dont have anything concrete to refute and its easier to call it dumb and get away. :) You were supposed to answer Agarwals point DIMWIT :)
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Simple,
Our puppet president is holidaying in hyderabad. Her pathidevaru saw a snake while strolling in gradens. The security forces called a snake-catcher. his name is syed maulana. see a muslim. see congress is appeasing minorities :D
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Bari Olu
Your half formed brain is degenerating qucikly into nothingness.
Funny, how you put a handkerchief to cover up BJP’s minoirty appeasement and try to uncover Congress’s muslim appeasement policies.
25% muslims voting for BJP means nothign?
150 crore fund for minorites by BJP govt means nothign?
No congress govt. in karnataka has sanctioned so much as BJP! And you say it is nothign.
A special Wakf minster means nothing?
Calling an Islamic fundamentalist like Jinnah as secular means nothign?
Demolishing temples in Gujarat means nothing?
Having loud mouth Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi as BJP spokesperson means nothing>?
Taking Congress reject Najma Heptullah into BJP means nothing? Making Shahnawaz Hussein a central minister means nothing? Giving crores of rupees to Madarasas means nothing?
Escorting Muslim terrorists on plane to Kandahar means nothing? Smoking the peace pipe with Musharaff when his people were attacking India means nothing?
NDA Invited Musharaff as an honoured guest while Pakistanis were killing Indians means nothign>?
Clearly there are a hundred isntances which can be shown that BJP Is out to woo muslims. All such acts are eventually leading to an increasing number of Muslims voting for BJP. Clearly BJP Is out to make Muslims a solid vote bank
Think and use your head originally
I am tired of telling you guys, i am not a torchbearer of Congress’s 50 year old rule.
This article is titled “who will win 2009 poll’? So i base my arguments on UPA’s five year rule vs teh previous rule of NDA.
In comparision NDA has appeased Muslims much more than UPA.
THat is essentially my point. For every one instance where Congress has appeased Muslim, i can show you 2 instances where BJP has appeased Muslims.
Clearly BJP is the greater evil.
I asked Dr. Agarwal to revert to my points. Since I made my Points first It is only fair this Dr. reverts to my points first, later on i shall revert to his.
Clearly Dr. Agarwal has run away from the scene of battlefield.
Hegu Unta
If you try and trivialise this discusssion, I pity you.
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Palahalli
I am reverting to all your ill informed, half formed, fully senseless statements.
1. Finally you agree that BJP should have spoken against giving crores to Madarasas. But I note that your tone is still polite towards BJP. For having committed a virtual hara kiri, you have no harsh words for BJP that you specially reserve for congress.
As far as your point that Muslims will never vote for Congress…that myth has been suitably broken into a million bits in my earlier replies to you, and baril olu.
I have never ever supported Congress blindly. I have used the harshest words possible for Congress for its acts of omissions. BUt you have never used HARSH words for BJP. You are certain as hoi-poloi as they come.
As far as KPS gill is concerned, are you asking me to believe this man who presided over the death of Indian Hockey, whose tenure was marked my severe corruption and negligence and nepotism and inefficiency?
KPS Gill’s crediblity is as low as the purpoted ‘evidence’ that you give me. KPS Gill was one cog in the wheel. One of the other cogs was Beant Singh. Indira Gandhi was the wheel itself. Without Indira’s wheel, there woudl be no cog.
it was her wheel which trampled and crushed to death Punjab militancy. It was she who appointed Beant Singh and KPS Gill. If not for anything, you should give her credit for appointing two tough men. Wake up and smell teh coffee, dude.
. How can you say Congres was the worst thing to have happened, when they gave us economic liberalisation? when they gave us nuclear power? when they gave us the nuclear deal with USA? when they killed militancy in Punjab now Kashmir? When they created an atmosphere for giants like DHirubai Ambani and Narayan Murthy to florish and prosper? when they nuclear tested at Pokhran and made India proud? When they sent Rakesh Sharma into space? when they created several giant public sector undertakings? when they created record number of IITs and IIMs, the best institutes in the world? when they created green revolution in Punjab? when they won the war against Pakistan?
The list can go on and on. You never ever have anything to say about this ENDLESS list. You simply merely crib and crib and froth at the mouth . Next time, if you don’t give me any backup for your mindless argument, i shall disregard you for your EMPTY, evidence-less, thoughtless remarks.
2. WIth regards to Kashmir, the Economic times article ( PAGE 2, 29 DEC. 2008 ARTILE SUB-TITLED DIP IN VIOLENCE AND HIGH TURONOUT MAKE 2008 POLLS MOST SUCCESFFUL IN RECENT YEARS)
It clearly says in so many words, “THE UNION HOME MINISTRY DID ITS BIT BY NOT ONLY PROVIDING THE REQUISITE CENTRAL FORCES – OVER 700 COMPANIES FOR KEEPING VIGIL DURING THE POLL BUT ALSO QUIETLY RESTRICTING THE MOVEMENT OAND PUBLIC APPEARANCES OF KEY SEPARITIST LEADERS…..AS A SENIOR OFFICIAL PUT IT, THE SIX YEARS OF GOVERNANCE IN J&K, that too REASONABLY PEACEFUL, MAY HAVE ADDED TO POPLUAR EXPECTATIONS THAT DEVELOPEMENT WORKS AND WELFARE SCEHMES WOULD BE GIVEN A PUSH.
WHy are you disregarding my evidence? why are you fighting shy of giving massive credit to Cong vis a vis the dismal record of BJP?
Because like I said, you don’t believe in evidence, you believe in your deeply poisioned ideology
As for the link you have sent me, here is an extract from the same link: The link clearly states that MILITANCY WAS VERY HIGH UNDER in 2001 (when NDA was in power) AND HAS DRASTICALLY DECLINED UNDER UPA. Sou you lost this point.
Here is the extract
“Viewed purely in terms of fatalities, the conflict in Jammu and Kashmir (J&K) has now crossed the threshold from a high-intensity to a low-intensity level. For the first time since 1990 (when they were 1,177) fatalities in this terrorism-wracked State in 2007 – at 777 – fell below the ‘high intensity conflict’ mark of a thousand deaths. At their peak in 2001, fatalities had risen to 4,507. Evidently, 2007 is a watershed year for J&K, bringing tremendous respite to its people.
Figures for 2007 reconfirm the continuously declining trend of terrorist violence in the State since the peak of 2001.”
3. If Modi is demolishing temples, then surely he is not appeasing Hindus. it is quite the contrary, I wonder how you can say it is trash. Glad you agree that there is divisions within Sangh Parivar. VHP vs Modi Vs RSS vs Rajnath Singh Vs Advani Vs Vajpayee Vs Bajrand Dal ..Pure cacophony of voices leading to utter disaster.
4. Blah blah blah. what is that kerfuffle? if you want to make a point, do it lucidly, don’t mumble like a retard.
5. Ever heard Abdul kalam say anything unduly harsh about Islamic fundamentalists. Clearly he is a softie..and BJP supports this soft guy to gain muslim votes. Meanwhile hundres of mullahs and other islamic religious guys have PUBLICLY come out against islamic terror. yet you have nothign to say.
6. WHen Karkare acts tough on Hindu fundamentalists he is an idiot. When he acts tough on Muslim extremists he is great. That seems to be your, laughable hypocritical stand.
Cong was more balanced. It applauded him in both cases. Niether Islamic nor Hindu fundamentalism will be tolerated.
7. Cong created Bhindranwale. Bhindranwale killed innocents. Therefore Cong killed Bhindranwale.
Cong under Indira, Beant Singh and KPS GIll killed Punjab terrorrism
I can only pity you if you contine to deny history,
IT takes a tough heart to kill what you created. indira had that tough heart.
Grow up. See STARK EVIDENCE
8..Dumbo, what is it that Abhishek Sanghi has said that indicates that Cong is into muslim appeasement? HE HAS NEVER SAID nothing to that extent. he has just said everybody should have artisitc freedom.i agree with that too.
the greatness of hindu religion is it is imaginative, broad minded and liberal. hinduism has severall instances of nakedness from naga sadhus to sculptures on Khajurao to our own Akka Mahadevi to Gomateshwara to several works of art of 300-500 years back …Hinduism does not regard nudity as offensive. Kama Sutra was born in India.
But Islam regards nudity as offensive.
Certain things are forbidden in islam while certain things are allowed in Hindusim. Who am i to question this?
Your other points..i shall rever later.
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Palahalli
9. I read both your articles on Yaseer Arafat
a) you suffer from SEVERE AMnesia. I have told you repatedly that i am not the torchbearer of Cong policies of the past. I am only interested in UPA of the last five years vs. NDA’s previous six year rule
The same article you sent me says UPA, under PM Manmohan Singh Continues to maintain superb relations with Israel. While Indira had spoilt relations, UPA has improved relations with Israel. Which is why I support UPA.
b) If you think India cozying up to far away Yaseer Arafat was for getting INdian muslim votes,
let me ask you: Why did NDA cozy up to a nearyby Musharaf? inviting him to Taj Mahal and romance with his wife? Clearly it was to win Indian Muslim votes. Vajpayee was keen to cozy up to Pakistan with an eye on the Nobel Peace Prize…..any number of publications have written about this.
How could BJP warm up to a man, who was anti India? Shame!
I am sure more Indians are aware of Musharaff than Yaseer Arafat. Cozying up to Arafat will not make much of a difference. But cozying up to Musharaff means Muslims will vote in large numbers to BJP. Proof: Increasing number of Muslims voting for BJP in election after election
10. You neednt have bothered to send me Tasleemas article.
OF course she is livid with Cong for chasing her out.But, give Cong credit for giving her visa twice.
11. My point was BJP was the ruling party when Kandhar happened. People vote in an election based on what the ruling party does. and not based on what opposition does. Since BJP capituated weekly on Kandahar, the people of India threw BJP out in 2004.
of course you agree BJP should not have surrendered militants. But again i note that no HARSH WORDS, NO FROTHIGN AT THE MOUTH FOR VIRTUALLY making embarrassing in front of the international world.
BUT I NOTICE YOU HAVE AVOIDED the following points:
Do you admit Advani was a weak home minister?
Do you admit Vajpayee did not trust Advani?
Do you admit BJP deserves the harshesst criticisim for bending over backwards to the terrorists?
12. On the hijackings, i asked you something< which you escaped from.
SHOW ME ONE MAJOR MEDIA WHICH HAS PICKED UP THIS HIJACKING INCIDENT? if it was major, surely NDTV, CNN IBN, Indian Express, TIMES OF INDIA and 100 other publications would have headlined it.
13. Are you telling me Abdul Kalam the father of nuclearisation did not know anything when he supported India’s nuclear deal?
Are you telling me that an ex journalist cum low IQ politican like Arun Shouri has more crediblity than Abdul Kalam?
Take a vote. ask indians to make a choice between believing Abdul Kalam and Arun Shourie..and see who wins.
Rise above narrow partisan needs and hail India for clincing the nuclear deal MUCH TO THE ENVY OF PAKISTAN AND CHINA.
way to go India! SUperb show by Congress.
14. Yea POTA worked. India had zero terror incidents under NDA.
15. I aint talking about 1990 cong. i talk about present day UPA. Ask the Pandits what they got from NDA’s six year rule.
NOTE: There was a slip of my toungue in my eariler posting. I RECTIFY that mistake.
In point Number I i said”
“your point that Muslims will never vote for Congress…that myth has been suitably broken into a million bits in my earlier replies to you, and baril olu.”
it has to be changed to:
“Your point that Muslims will never vote for BJP …that myth has been suitably broken into a million bits.
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Simple – The not so great thing about me is that I can tolerate idiots no end.
So, i’ll give you another chance –
“As far as KPS gill is concerned, are you asking me to believe this man who presided over the death of Indian Hockey, whose tenure was marked my severe corruption and negligence and nepotism and inefficiency? – Are you equating KPS Gill’s Punjab stint with that of his “Hockey” administration?
KPS Gill’s crediblity is as low as the purpoted ‘evidence’ that you give me. KPS Gill was one cog in the wheel. One of the other cogs was Beant Singh. Indira Gandhi was the wheel itself. Without Indira’s wheel, there woudl be no cog. – Clearly you’ve lost you’re “cog”! Now the corrupt KPS Gill becomes the “second cog” in the Indira “wheel”??
it was her wheel which trampled and crushed to death Punjab militancy. It was she who appointed Beant Singh and KPS Gill. If not for anything, you should give her credit for appointing two tough men. Wake up and smell teh coffee, dude.” – Yes! I’m dealing with a confirmed imbecile now. One more chance for you to retract this statement. Are you telling me Indira appointed Gill and Beant??
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Simple,
Man you are unbelievably stupid man. I thought you had dinosaur brain now I am convinced you have none. I think you are a robot blurting out the same content put in different words by some inefficient algorithm. Ask your master to refine the algorithm and make it more realistic and less repetitive.
Here you go.
>> This article is titled “who will win 2009 poll’? So i base my arguments on UPA’s five year rule vs teh previous rule of NDA.
Then why bring in Indira and keep harping that Indira ended terrorism??
>>“Your point that Muslims will never vote for BJP …that myth has been suitably broken into a million bits.
Its real fun to see that such stupid people do exist on earth. And democracy doesnt work well under stupid people. No wonder our democracy is heading that way..
You are like Pakistan indulging in regular flip-flop and self goals. BTW you seem to be extremely jobless so please make a comprehensive list of BJP and congress’s appeasement policies. I am sure it will be a bestseller :P
>>25% muslims voting for BJP means nothign?
Stupid fellow. did 25 percent of Indian muslims vote?? Did 25% shivajinagar muslims vote??? Did 25% kashmiris vote for BJP?? You show one case and make a general statement.
>>150 crore fund for minorites by BJP govt means nothign?
Why not?? Yeddi has been helping out other hindu organisations also. Minorities doesnt necessarily mean muslims alone dumb head.
>>No congress govt. in karnataka has sanctioned so much as BJP! And you say it is nothign.
Of course if BJP didnt sanction you would start harping saying minorities were neglected.
>>A special Wakf minster means nothing?
WTF. Special WAKF minister. What was Mr.Roshan Baig during congress rule, he was wakf and tourism minister. And what was JDS ka Zameer Ahamed, wasnt he WAKF minister.
>>Calling an Islamic fundamentalist like Jinnah as secular means nothign?
BJP didnt agree with Advani. Advani is not BJP!! Thats democracy. However congress agrees dumbly to ever statement of its dumb leader like slaves.
>>Demolishing temples in Gujarat means nothing?
Yes. I need not reiterate my stand.
>>Having loud mouth Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi as BJP spokesperson means nothing>?
Taking Congress reject Najma Heptullah into BJP means nothing? Making Shahnawaz Hussein a central minister means nothing?
>> It means that BJP welcomes people who are ready to behave like Indians rather than muslims and these people have no great fan following amongst majority of the muslims.
>> Giving crores of rupees to Madarasas means nothing?
Compare it with the amount of money given in states like Andhra. 5% reservation by Raj reddys govt for muslims. UPA govt spends 1000 crores on Imams salaries for issuing fatwas but our hindu priests get mere 1 rupee and stuff.
Thanks to Yeddi that he has increased the salaries of Muzrai temple priest. The number of appeasement policies in Andhra by ur congress govt will be a huge list.
Escorting Muslim terrorists on plane to Kandahar means nothing? Smoking the peace pipe with Musharaff when his people were attacking India means nothing?
NDA Invited Musharaff as an honoured guest while Pakistanis were killing Indians means nothign>?
>> How do all these imply minority appeasement?? If they are so then Indian muslims look towards pakistan. Which means Indian muslims are anti-nationals. So will your congress teach them nationality?
You are a coward and you cant answe Agarwals question. Simple robot.
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Palahalli
Ofcourse, Cong appointed KPS Gill, the man whose crediblity in recent years has taken a beating.
WHICH IS WHY I KEEP REPEATING that it was not KPS Gills victory alone. IT WAS INDIRA GANDHIS AND BEANT SINGH AND KPS GILL’s victory.
You inflicted your views on me saying it was ONLY KPS Gill and Beant Singhs victory. You are chronically dumb, what can i say.
You have no credibility left for refusing to accept Congress’s resounding triumph over militantcy
Indira Gandhi the iron lady weilded suitable control and authority to override Gill..and therefore pujab terrorism ended
Strangely, while you praise BJP for choosing Abdul Kalam as their candidate for presidency
You don’t praise Indira Gandhi for choosing KPS GILL and Beant Singh.
Each of your points are replete with faux paus, and contradictions. DO you know what you are speaking man?
Get that you nerd?
I NOTICE THAT YOU HAVEN’T REPLIED TO ANY OF MY EARLIER POINTS.
THIS IS THE LAST AND FINAL CALL TO PALAHALLI TO CONCEDE DEFEAT FOR YOUR IMBECILE ARGUMENTS.
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Check this link Bari Olu:
http://www.indianmuslims.info/articles/asghar_ali_engineer/bjp_reassessing_muslim_factor.html
Ali Ashgar Engineer Comments on how BRahmins are turning away from BJP and how BJP Is desperate to win Muslims vote
here is an extract from his article:
“However, there is no easy way out for BJP. To revive itself in U.P. in the absence of any wave in its favour is an Herculean task. With 20 per cent Muslims of U.P. hostile to it and Brahmins also having deserted it is under pressure to change its virulent anti-Muslim course.
But that is also not an easy task. The BJP senior leaders in Delhi, nevertheless are thinking on these lines. A Mushaira (poetic gathering) at the home of BJP leader Shahnawaz was organized and many BJP leaders participated in it. Many moderate BJP leaders also feel we have offered Muslim votes to Congress and other parties on a platter by alienating them.
We should woo them even at this stage.
On the other hand, after years of anti-Muslim propaganda, it would not be easy to carry conviction with Muslims, let alone aspire for the sizeable Muslim vote.
They want to, however, convince Muslims that it was Vajpayee who initiated the Indo-Pak friendship process and also took initiative for solving the Kashmir problem. How far it will convince Muslims is anybody’s guess. The Congress could not win Muslims back in U.P. despite all efforts.
Surendra Kulkarni, media advisor to the then Prime Minister Shri.Vajpayee has been writing a series of articles in Indian Express suggesting that the BJP should woo Muslims to the mutual benefit of both
—
Half Formed Brain Bari Olu
1. I am bringing Indira, because you and Palahalli keep on pulling me back to 50 years of Cong rule. Which is one stale point that you guys dish out time and again. And when I am served stale dishes, i trash it in the garbage can. I have repeatedly told that i am not the torchbearer of Cong 50 years rule. And i condemn COngress’s emergency in the severest way possible.Like I condemn BJP’s hounding of Tehelka. But i shall praise Cong when due.
2. Before calling me stupid, call your BJP minister stupid. He was the one who said 25% of muslims voted for BJP. I hope you checked the link that i gave you. And time and again, survey after survey has thown up the fact that Muslims are no longer antagonistic to BJP.
3. Please note that Cong has never DISHED Out 150 crore for minorityfund. WHile BJP has dished out a fantastic 150 crore fund. So Clearly BJP is the culprit.
Shame on BJP for cozying up to muslims for the sake of votes.
4. Ha haha….Yes, BJP has a special WAKF minister. In what way is it different from Cong which also had Wakf minister? BJP is nothign but a B team of Cong.
5. BJP did not agree with Advani? that shows what a lame duck leader BJP has got as its PM candidate. He does not command any respect from his colleagues. Not a single insect stood by Advani when he made that Jinnah comment. Advani has gone on record to state how deeply pained and anguished he was at that time!
Can you imagine what kind of independent tdecisions Advani will be allowed to take?
All his decisions will be vetted by RSS.
He will be ona tight leash.
Proof: Check TOI two days back. It says RSS has given the FINAL AUTHORITY to Advani, overriding Rajnath Singh – in matters pertaining to LS elections.
Who is RSS to give authority to Advani? is RSS democratically elected? is it constitutional?
Can you imagine that? Our Future PM ’s credibility will be at an all time low, because he will be ona tight leash by the Sangh Parivar.
HE will have to run a non democratic Sangh Parivar for every decision he takes. Who needs sucha weak leader?
6. If demolishing temples by BJP means nothing, then I must say you are PSEUDO SECULAR OF THE WORST KIND.
7. BJP welcomes turncoats like Heptuallah. Heptuallah did not change her views on Islam after she came to BJP. She did not convert to Hinduism.
8. Congress believes in Justice for all. Appeasement for none. Whichis why it gave reservations to Muslims in ANdhra. WHy should only hindus get reservations? So you are on the defensive here. You agree BJP is doling out huge money to Madarass and increasing their salaries…..so that is why BJP is a B team of Congress..hahahahaha
9.Palahahalli stated that India supported Palestine to gain Muslims vote.
Therefore I state that NDA invited and warmed up to Musharaff to gain Muslim votes .
10 > i asked certain questions first. Dr. Agarwal did not respond to that. Instead he gave his own set of laughable questions.
Let Dr. Agarwal answer my points first. Then i shall answer his.
Before calling me a coward, look at yourselves. Four of you pouncing on one person. yet i brave all the four of you……
Clearly you are the coward /
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Simple –
On Punjab, you asserted (7 January 2009 at 12:42 pm) that Indira Gandhi appointed KPS Gill and Beant Singh.
– Prove it.
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“Before calling me a coward, look at yourselves. Four of you pouncing on one person. yet i brave all the four of you……”
Is there some kind of a wrestling going on here that people are trying to prove themselves “macho” :)
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loving this discussion. carry on.
Simple : More ammunition available here : http://www.saag.org/common/uploaded_files/paper2503.html
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Palahalli
IF cong did not appoint KPS Gill, who appointed? Marilyn Monroe?
Moron.
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Simple, you seem to have no conception of space and time and truth. Or you pretend.
To you Indira Gandhi can equal Congress when suitable but when not, UPA can never equal previous Congress regimes.
You are a dishonest opponent. Pretty sad because all you’re energy’s come to naught.
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Palahalli
When confronted with ugly truths you call me names.
It was you who differentiated Congress and Indira. For me both are like synonyms.
If Indira did not appoint Gill, then her son Rajeev appointed Mr. Gill.
Both belong to congress anyway. they key point is that congress is the party which eliminated terrorism.
I have maintained right from the beginning, that I shall praise Cong and even Indira Gandhi when she has done good for the country. And i shall criticize her when she has acted like a dictator.
You, on the other hand are completely irrational and totally partial. you are blind to the hundreds of enornmously good things she has done to India.
While I am objective, you are pretty emotional, which is not a good sign when you want to debate
Shed your emotional baggage of dislike towards congress and argue dispassionately.
While you compltely ignored the several points made by me and Mr.Yeno Ondhu, you pick up one small worm of a point and try to magnify it.
Yeno Ondu! Congrats man, for giving such FANATASTIC FACTS about congress history
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Sad but true. Every time you post, you exhibit you’re propensity for dishonesty.
But, maybe you did not even read B. Raman’s article.. btw, he is the same person who listed the hijackings you call “minor”.
In this article, Manmohan Singh is listed against “C”. Do you agree? If yes, what happens to you’re thesis of “excellent” UPA governance?
But then, you can always claim B. Raman to be a biased idiot :) “Yeno Ondu”, I see, did not do you a favor…
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Mr. Simple,
What do you have to talk about this?
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/madrasa-certificates-will-now-be-cbse-equivalent/404478/
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PALAHALLI
I sometimes wonder why i continue to debate with such a toad like you.
Remember, I have always maintained that i am bothered only about present UPAs rule vs. NDA rule.
If Manmohan has got C, what do you think Vajpayee has got? Vajpayee is not better than Manmohan. The party which claimed to be tough on terror is actually a poor C.
I am not a fool to quote Yeno Ondhu
If at all any PMs were tough it was all Cong PMs -Indira, Rajeev and Narasimha rao who got better ratings than NDA.
But you conveniently ignored my other points. Here is fresh ammunition:
Manmohan Singh clinched the nuclear deal although there were voices in India which said it is against Muslims. There were several political parties and fringe fundamentalist muslims organisation which were against the nuclear deal
Yet Manmohan Singh did not care about such fundamentalist voices in India, he did not bother about appeasing Muslim votes…for him INdia was important
Your children getting energy was important, not muslim votes..hence he did everything he could do get India the nuclear deal.
That.
That is the greatness of UPA.
While BJP was on the side of fundamentalist muslim organisations (both did not want the nuclear deal), UPA went ahead full steam.
FullMarks to UPA…which is why UPA is any day better than the rag tag combo called NDA
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Bari Olu
First you comment on the article sent by Yeno Ondu
First you comment on what Sudheendra Kulkarni has said about BJP wooing Muslims
First you comment on Ali Asghar Engineers article on how Brahmins are moving away from BJP and how Muslims are increasingly voting for BJP
First you comment why BJP and funadmentalist Muslim organsations in India did not want the nuclear dea with USA.
First you comment why UPA went against Muslims in India and clinched the nuclear deal
First you comment how harsh Indira Gandhi has been in the various hijacking cases
First you comment on how Indira never ever negotiated with terrorists like NDA did.’
first you comment on why BJP JDU govt is giving millions of rupeees to Madarassas
Then I shall comment on the article you sent of Indian Express. The govt is changing the way Madaras function. They are introducing modern education from science to information technology. In bihar madaras continue to teach them Jehad
That.
That is the difference between the shamelss minority appeasing of NDA and Congress which works with national interest in mind always.
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So you agree MM Singh is a “C”. Good.
And just for the heck of it, you, of course have data that proves Madrasas in Bihar breed Jihad and the others don’t :)
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I think it is useless to continue arguing with simple. What I believe is that simple is simply a congress appointed internet manager, and that is what he is doing effectively for congress. No healthy discussions, nothing except vindicating congress by every possible way. Ridiculous, stop doing that simple. Congress is not your property to protect, nor it is untouchable for we people. But facts should be there to argue. Do some thing in the interest of the country.
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hey, we all know omar abdullah became youngest cm. are there any young leaders in nda and upa? i know u maybe thinking that i am escaping from terrorism issue. when will these ppl pass the baton to younger generation?
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Simple,
Dude there is no point in arguing with you because, you show sheer double standards. As i said before, if you point 10 instances of minority appeasement, there will be 100 instances that can be pointed at congress. Whats happening under YSR in Andhra isnt appeasement for you. Whats happening in Assam isnt appeasement for you. Only bihar madrasas breed terrorists. This is sheer double standards.
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Palahalli
I am glad you agree Vajpaee is a poor C when it came to handling Terror. Good, you are increasingly agreeing to all my points.
But Manmohans recored in Handling Kashmir is A++
Simply because i go by facts.
Kashmir has been restored to near normalcy.
I notice you did not speak about the minority appeasement of BJP vis a vis nuclear deal
I notice you did not open your mouth as to how India under UPA signed nuclear deal, even though madarasas didnt want the deal.
Bari Olu
use your head.
Congress has been constantly vilified a party which appeases minorities. You are not giving me any surprising revelation here.
But what I am giving you is a refreshing insight.
a) THrough my factual observations, i have given you any number of instances to show BJP is into minority appeasement.
b) through my factual observations, i have given you any number of instances to show Cong is NOT into minority appeasement (latest being teh nuclear deal signed by India, much against fundamentalist Muslims in India)
As far as which party is better (or worse) at wooing Muslims – that i again go by facts.
In the last few discussions, i have given two cases of appeasement by BJP, for evey half case that you have given for Congress.
I have no hestiation in accepting Cong has appeased minorities pre UPA.
But this UPA, has few instances of minority appeasement whiel NDA has got innumerable cases.
Clearly, you should not vote for BJP – coz it is eyeing Muslim vote bank (as told by Chief Strategist and Advisor to Advani, Sudheendra Kulkarni)
***
To Dr. Agarwal
I think it is useless to continue arguing with Agarwal. What I believe is that Agarwal is simply a BJP appointed internet manager, and that is what he is doing effectively for BJP. No healthy discussions, nothing except vindicating BJPby every possible way.
Ridiculous, stop doing that Agarwal. BJP is not your property to protect, nor it is untouchable for we people. But facts should be there to argue. Do some thing in the interest of the country.
***
Yeno Ondhu
Way to go.
I think old leaders should be shown the door.
And now 86 year old Shekawat joins the race for PM post! Can you beat that?
If Vajyape was fit, add another 80 plus man in the race for PM post.
A mumbling, fumbling geriatric Shekhawat still has the greed and the audacity to harbour such intentions.
If we keep going by seniority (and not a person’s worth) then we shall forever be ruled by men in 80s and 90s!
Obama is such a refreshing change.
Omar Abdullah is such a postive change.
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>> Clearly, you should not vote for BJP – coz it is eyeing Muslim vote bank (as told by Chief Strategist and Advisor to Advani, Sudheendra Kulkarni)
You should not profess whom to vote. Whom not to. Its subjective. And regarding Mr.Kulkarnis article, Please read his articles properly. He talks of BJP and muslims coming together and talks of misconceptions being cleared. He surely doesnt talk of measures to uplift the minorities etc nor does he talk of special sops for them. He is writing as an individual urging BJP and muslims to come together. He isnt a BJP spokesperson. Nor has the collective leadership of BJP issued any statement supporting Kulkarni. Nor has Mr.Advani. How does it account to appeasement dear??
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Simple Simon…tsk tsk….no news about Bihar’s Jihad breeding Madrasas??
And as for your known double dealing…you expect me to agree with Vajpayee’s “C” when you don’t with MM Singh’s rating??
You keep beating the “Kashmir” drum without acknowledging facts on the ground. Useless!
Data can play you and entrap you. You now want to ride Narasimha Rao’s back? Look at his stats on Kashmir. And of course…I was decent enough to let the rat escape on Charar-e-Sharief! Please get back to me on that in you’re next post will you?
yeno ondhu – No issues with younger leaders. But one look at the lot and you know they are there because Dads or Moms are either tired or departed. With Omar there…can Rahul be far behind? But lets allow Master Simple to take the podium here ;)
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Bari Olu
Sudheendra Kulkarni is the backroom advisor for Advani, the PM in waiting. Mr. Kulkarni gets his power by virture of having Advani’s ear. If Kulkarni thinks Muslims should be wooed (the word is woo) then you can imagine why Advani made the jinnah comment, why BJP supported the funding of Madrasas, why BJP pitched its voice against nuclear deal, why BJP is busy giving humdreds of crores to minority fund.
Evidence one: Advani allows Sudheendra Kulkarni to say Muslims should be wooed. Advani doesnt reprimand him. This from a party which says from every rooftop, that justice for all and appeasement for none is their motto!
Evidence Two: The several hundres of of muslim appeasment politcis by BJP which i have written so far.
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Palahalli
i repate : If cong is into muslim appeasement politics, BJP is no better, if cong gives money to madarass, BJP follows suit.
BJP is the B team of congress (like i have said many times)
But one comforting thought is that while Cong is moving away from muslim appeasing stuff, BJP in INCREASING its appeasment politics!
What absurdity that you don’t agree with Raman’s C rating for Vajpaee, but grandly quote his hijacking statistics!
Foot in the mouth disease?
you keep denying Cong’s role in brining nornalcy Kashmir. inspite of obvious evidence
evidenc of militant activites in kashmir
evidence of Press reporting Cong taking Tough stance to jail separtist leaders
evidence of press reporting cong taking tough stance to increase army personnel to ensure separtists call for boycott wont’ succceed.
I mean if you don’t look at rock solid evidence, i must say that you have been brainwashed beyond control.
it’s like Pakistan denying that Kasab is a pakistani (inspite of evidence dossier).
I am no supporter of Narasimha Rao. Except his liberalisation policies, I think he did no great job. Raman believes Narasimha rao was better than Vajpayee so ask Raman about Raos terror score card
True yeno ondhu, one look at the younger lot of leaders and you know they are there because of their moms and dads
1. Poonam Mahajan is aspiring to get LS ticket.
2. Rahul Mahajan got a party position immediately after death of father.
3. Vasundhara Raje became CM of Rajashthan because her mother was union cabinet minister
4. Jaswant Singh son became a politician because jaswant singh is one.
5. Maneka Gandhi became uniion minister because she is wife of Sanjay Gandhi.
6. Varun Gandhi has important position in BJP (and expected to get LS ticket) because he is son of a Gandhi.
7. BJP supports naveen patnaik son of Naveen Patnaik
8. BJP supported Kumarswamy son of Deve Gowda
9. BJP supported Omar Abdullah son of Farooq Abdullah
10. BJP supported Chandrababu Naidu son in law of NTR
11. BJP supported Chautala, son of Devi Lal
12. BJP supported
CLEALY BJP IS THE BIGGEST SUPPORTER OF DYNASTIC POLITICS.
Yet the party has the gall to constantly point fingers at Congress for the Gandhi dynasty.
BJP supports Gandhi Dynasty like no other party. Because BJP supprts Maneka and Varun Gandhi.
But as usual Palahalli, i know that you will disregard my evidence and let your passion of deep hatred for congress take over your mind.
That.
That is the difference between me and you. I go by facts. you go by misplaced passion.
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Simple, still nothing on Jihad breeding Madrasas in Bihar “only” :)
Please don’t compare dynastic plague inducing Congress with other parties. Congress is the alpha of all evils this country witnesses today. At Omega it’s evils may have touched other parties…but that’s because of trend setting Congress. With all this, you will not find “Central (family)Succession Planning”, in the BJP, like there is in the Congress. It may get there…sometime and we’ll have the Congress plague inducing rat to thank for it. Watch Pranab M recommending Rahul for PM. Doesn’t it sicken a man of his stature? What becomes of his stature after this??
None of the people you mentioned within the BJP can become leaders of the National Party. None. Where is Varun Gandhi these days? Where is that idiot Rahul M? Where indeed is Maneka? (And Maneka has loads more brain than her sis in law)
Can a plagued rat give up being filthy? Nah…how can the Congress give up it’s Muslim affliction? To listen to you Simple Simon…one would think the Congress were a veritible Hindu Mahasabha..Welcome! But I think the rat’s got a new disguise..just like it adopted in 1946, when it fooled the Hindus to the zenith. So please cease you’re hogwash about Congress giving up Islam adoration!
On Kashmir, Simple Simon, you’re MM Singh would have lost his marbles and got more of our people killed, if the Pakis had focused their attention on Kashmir instead of Afghanistan and the Taliban. You’re seperatists are zilch without firepower. They did not have the firepower this time Simple Simon. So, stop building mere rats into huge bandicoots when they don’t possess the calibre, like you’re doing to the seperatists and the Congress party.
Another thing Simple Simon, you are taking a very circuitous route to glorify Congress..you’re main aim.
Step 1 – Abuse the Congress
Step 2 – Abuse the BJP and accuse it of being another Congress
Step 3 – Accuse the BJP of being worse than the Congress
Step 4 – Pat the Congress for “getting well”.
Step 5 – Praise the Congress for becoming healthy and well!
All this within one single thread in Churumuri! Truly, you hard core Congressis are devious. Very much like liberal fifth column who will show displeasure with secular politicians just so that Hindutva heat is deflected.
Charar-e-Shaief…Simple Simon
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Palahalli
You yourself agreed Madarasis are breeding ground for terror activities. WHile AP govt. has given (and explicityly stated) its funds for modern education, Bihar has made no such mention of modern education. WHich means they are happy to let madarasas function they way they have been functinong for 100s of years.
While Cong wants to Change Madarasas, BJP wants to let Madaras be they way they have been for 100s of years.
And that.
That is the difference between a stagnant BJP and a progressive Congress
Predictably, you squarely discard all ills facing the country at Congress’s doorstep.
While you NEVER praise Congress for making India what it is today – a nuclear power, an economic power, a military power, a space technology power, an IT power., a brain power (IIT, IIM), the list is endless.
It is completely abnormal for anybody not to say anything positive about Congress rule in the past fifty years.
You never mentioned anything about Indira Gandhi’s tough stance in several cases as mentioned by Raman.
You never mentioned anything about Indiras dare devil “no negotiation’ policy.
You never mentioned anything about why BJP takes only the negatives of congress and never the positives.
Why can’t we compare Cong Dynasty to others? Why? This is sheer hypocrisy again. I have lost count of the number of times you stand guilty of having double standards.
Maneka gandhi may be more articulate than Sonia. That doesn’t necessarily mean more intelligent. Maneka is still a Gandhi. And BJP needs a Gandhi member too in their party. Is there two questions abuot it? She was a union cabinet minster in NDA! What more proof you need for BJP sucking up to the Gandhis?
BJP did not have the guts to NOT have her in their cabinet. I mean come on, was maneka so indispensable that you could not get one original BJP member instead of her?
The truth which you don’t like to admit: BJp needs the Gandhi name as much as Congress does. Because Gandhi name sells. Watch out, BJP is going to give both these Gandhis or at least one of them an LS seat this year.
Again, as is your habit, you will wallow in your childish emotinal outbursts against Congress , and refuse to see EVIDENCE.
On Kashmir you are back to stale ground, dull rhetoric. While you wanted evidence to show Cong’s tough stance, I gave you statistics, i gave you media reports and now you say Pak was busy with its own affairs.
What poor logic. ANswer this if you can:
1) If Pak was busy with its own affairs, how come they bombed the rest of India at will?
2) The time NDA was in power, Pakistan was even worse off, because that was the time when 9/11 happened. Pakistan was being attacked by Taliban and diplomatically had to fend off the world for having supported Taliban. Taliban itself was on teh run and was creating enough problems to Pakistan.
So stop fooling yourself that Pak was busy with Taliban and therefore did not concentrate on Kashmir.
I have given evidence to support my point of view, while you have none as usual. Just shrill emotional outburts, laced with poor metaphors about rats and bandicoots.
Cong is a 50 plus year old party. BJP is still about 15-20 years old. The first generation is still experiencing power. Advani at 80 plus still wants to enjoy power. Vajpayee never married. So where is the question of second generation coming up?
Wait for another 5 to 10 years and you will see hundreds of second gen leaders (born to erstwhile CMs and Ministers) of BJP sitting in power.
My point is : merit should be the sole criteria. But if all parties are indulging in dynasty politics, why blame cong alone, just because it was first.
In that case , why dont’ you praise Cong for its nuclear bomb, because it was first?
WHy dont you praise cong for liberalisation, becuse it was first.
Plus the other 100 wonderful things congress did, by virtue of being first.
And yea, thanks for the analysis in five steps, which I myself did not know. Now here is what I glean about your route to hammer Congress.
Step 1: Bash and Trash Congress for their fifty years of rule.
Step 2: Bash and Trash congress further when Simple gives you evidence of Congs achievemnts in the past fifty years
Step 3: Intensify the Bash and Trash operation against Congress, when Simple punctures with surgical precision your very closely held, anti congress beliefs.
Step 4: Severly agitated, your Cong Bash and Trash takes on a record high. You are confronted with such rock solid evidenc that you resort to more and more bashing, because you JUST cannot debate with someone who gives you reams and reams of evidence.
Step 5: Set up a word record in meaningless, mindless, senseless BASH and TRASH congress.
Char e Sharief. I already told you I did not think much about Narasimha Rao. you are not reading my replies properly. i dont give a damn about his rule. Excpet for that shining contribution called Liberalisation, nothing much of worth happned during PVR. and i am not defending hs stance on Char e sharief. Period.
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P.S.:
Laughable how you say:
“But I think the rat’s got a new disguise..just like it adopted in 1946, when it fooled the Hindus to the zenith. So please cease you’re hogwash about Congress giving up Islam adoration!”
Cong has actually taken CONCRETE steps to DISPLEASE Muslims. Like it went ahead inspite of muslim zealots to SIGN the nuclear deal with USA.
How can you accuse Cong of being soft on Muslims.
Here is one more instance of Muslim appeasing politics of BJP
: Although BJP placed more regulations on those going to Haj, the HIDDEN FACT was that BJP actually increased the Haj subsidy by 22 times!
Now did you know that? Check this link!
http://www.hindu.com/2003/10/23/stories/2003102307550900.htm
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While Gandhi Parivar rules the Cong, there is another parivar which rules BJP – the Sngh arivar.
While Gandhi Parivar is democratically elected, and has the consent of the people, The Sangh Parivar is undemocratic and does not have consent of people.
And that.
That is the difference between a democratic Cong and an undemocratic BJP
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Well said Palahalli sir :)
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Simple Simon’s Haj Yo-Yo…please read and enjoy!
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/01092002/0109200276.htm
and this..
http://news.indiainfo.com/2004/09/15/1509haj.html
I correct myself on Simple Simon’s fetish. His fetish is not the Congress Party…it’s worse, it’s the Gandhi family….
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Well done Simple..keep it up..You doing great job :)
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Palahalli,
Did you say I have a fetish for the Gandhi family?
Probably you aren’t paying attention to my replies or you just suffer from an incurable disease called “BashAndTrash Congress.”
I have no fetish for anybody. I look at situations factually, and come to conclusions objectively. Gandhi family or no Gandhi family.
Here is evidence to prove i am not a blind Gandhi family fan.”
I have repeatedly and heavily criticized Indira Gandhi’s dictatorial style by imposing emergency?
I criticize Sonia Gandhi’s choice in appointing only those who are loyal to Gandhi Family a la Shivraj Patil, Antulay and other such worthies?
Is that why I criticize Gandhi family’s stand on Shah Bano Case?
There are several more, but then Palahalli will never go by evidence or facts. He is innately predisposed towards beleiving i am an incorrigible Cong supporter. No Sir, I am not.
For sufferers of a Chronic Disease called “BashAndTrash Congress” there is no hope really. No treatment on earth can cure you of this disease.
Point no. 2
you have sent me some links about Haj.
I too had sent you a link.
Why is my link more credible?
Because it comes from BJP itself.
BJP itself says that it increased Haj subsidy compared to Cong regimes.
Shed your fetish for the Sangh Parivar and use your God Given Brain to think objectively.
Observer,
Thank you for the support. I was kinda feeling lonely.
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But of course;
Minister of State for Home Sriprakash Jaiswal – Is not a Congress man.
Congress – Is not a Congress party
Sonia Gandhi – Is not The Congress lady
But if these above, are self-evident..Simple Simon…who in reality is a “not so” Simple Simon, never supported…
That Congress on That date of 2004
SP Jayaswal on That date when he met the press
MM Singh when he met SP Jayaswal before SP Jayaswal met the press on That date
Sonia Gandhi when she wrote That letter on That date opposing the NDA on That date
And so on and so forth…But I like it best when “not so” Simple Simon says it ;)
The second link, that “not so” Simple Simon ignored dutifully;
************
Govt to withdraw NDA’s changes in Haj regulations
Wednesday, September 15 2004 19:50 Hrs (IST)
New Delhi: Government today (Sep 15, 2004) decided in principle to withdraw changes in Haj pilgrimage regulations carried out by the previous NDA (National Democratic Alliance) regime last year, including discontinuation of subsidy for income tax payees.
“All the changes carried out by the NDA regime with regard to Haj pilgrimage last year will stand withdrawn and status quo as existed in 2002 will be restored,” Minister of State for Home Sriprakash Jaiswal told reporters in New Delhi after a meeting with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.
Jaiswal said the Prime Minister assured him that all alternations in Haj regulations, done by the BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party)-led Government, would be taken back. This would, however, require the approval of the Union Cabinet after which an official notification would be issued.
The Minister in particular pointed to the withdrawal of the subsidy for Haj pilgrims paying income tax saying there was no need for two sets of rules.
Jaiswal recalled that the Congress, which was then in Opposition, had vehemently objected to the proposed changes by the NDA Government and its president Sonia Gandhi had even written a letter to then Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee opposing them.
Another change in Haj regulations to be brought about related to a man not being allowed to travel with his wife from the same place as required by ‘mehran’ and the Saudi law.
Asked if the changes were being carried out in view of the coming Maharashtra elections and Lok Sabha and Assembly bye polls, he said, “This has nothing to do with elections”.
PTI
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Palahalli
Again your blinkered view.
To help your fading memory, here is what I wrote in my very first posting regarding NDA’s Haj tactics:
“Although BJP placed more regulations on those going to Haj, the HIDDEN FACT was that BJP actually increased the Haj subsidy by 22 times!”
So in the very first instance, i said BJP placed more regulations, which later UPA relaxed the rules. The link you gave me shows that UPA relaxed the rules. Which is true. I never denied that nor was that my point.
My point was something else. The HIDDEN fact was BJP gave a higher Subsidy!
I already sent you one link. Here is another link which says BJP increased subsidy to Haj.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030104/nation.htm#9
for a party which claimed Haj subsidy should be abolished actually INCREASED the subsidy.
True, they made some cosmetic changes, BUT INCREASING SUBSIDY!!!!!!!?
FORGET ABOUT ABOLISHING SUBSIDY, BUT INCREASING IT??????
Palahalli!
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“Not so” Simple Simon (NSSS for short) is at it yet again..;)
I wonder what is “hidden” in whatever Syed Shahnawaz Hussain told reporters that day.
NSSS quotes, verbatim, this person and then proclaims this “fact” was indeed hidden until NSSS unearthed it :)
And then…slyly, NSSS tells us that the UPA “relaxed” (why did they?) the sensible rules the NDA had brought in and then again, conveniently fails to mention two facts;
1. “All the changes carried out by the NDA regime with regard to Haj pilgrimage last year will stand withdrawn and status quo as existed in 2002 will be restored,”
2. Jaiswal recalled that the Congress, which was then in Opposition, had vehemently objected to the proposed changes by the NDA Government and its president Sonia Gandhi had even written a letter to then Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee opposing them.
But before NSSS tries to push his “Congress is actually Hindu Mahasabha incarnate” dope down our throats, I would like fellow commenters including the mighty NSSS to peruse the attached VERY DETAILED study of Haj Subsidy in India down the years.
http://www.indianmuslims.info/reports_about_indian_muslims/hajj_operation_in_india_2006.html
Of particular interest, apart from tables, are two sections;
7. Government decision about Haj 2004
and
8.Government decisions about Haj-2005
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Do not feel alone Simple, we all here with you as long as you fighting for the good cause with right spirit. TRUTH ALWAYS TRIUMPHS
Good Luck!!
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Palahalli
Let me tell you what is hidden about what Shahnawaz says regarding Haj Subsidy.
It is hidden because neither media picked it up as a big issue, nor did the then opposition Cong make any political capital out of it.
Which is why i say Congress is not a shrewd party. They let opportunities go abegging. Opoorutunities which could otherwise reap rich dividends.
Now, Let’s take the reverse situation.
If it was the other way around, If Cong had increased the Haj subsidy, BJP would have shouted from every TV channel that Cong is appeasing the minorities at the cost of Hindu tax payer!
Every spokesperson of BJP would hammer in this point, day in and day out. It would feature in their publicity materials, in websites, in debates, discussions, in their ads, in their meetings, in their manifestoes..
In short BJP would have made it their prime agenda that COng had increased subsidy by 22 times with an eye on Muslim vote bank.
Now you know why i call it hidden?
Thank you for the links.
I agree with what all is said, including the fact that UPA relaxed rules. So since we agree with this part, shall we move on?
My moot point was: BJP INCREASED subsidy as compared to previous Cong regimes.
Now that i have given you glaring evidence that NDA increased subsidy, you should tell me whether you think it is right or wrong. Yes or No? Do you ahve the courage to admit that BJP was guilty of increasing Haj subsidy when its stated philiosophy is to do away with subsidies?
Is BJP not guilty of hypocrisy?
Is BJP not guilty of muslim appeasement?
Is BJP not guilty of having betrayed voters like you?
I agreed that UPA relaxed rules. I was never sly about it. I was quite upfront right in the beginning when this Haj debate began. And here i quote myself verbatim.
“Although BJP placed more regulations on those going to Haj, the HIDDEN FACT was that BJP actually increased the Haj subsidy by 22 times!”
Note: I clearly said “BJP PLACED MORE REGULATIONS on those going to Haj.”
So please apologise for manipulating the evidence. Palahalli, don’t divert/distract/confuse Churumuri readers by trying the disfigure my facts.
Observer,
I could hug you.
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Dear NSSS, I most sincerely hope you’re in the media business that is into propaganda. You’d be superb :) The most important principle about the business of “propagating” is that one never gives up. One never loses heart even though one might continue to lose arguments. That way, one tries to build an aura of “winning”. Pure propaganda. But I feel you’re propaganda is getting into a predictable groove now. Of course you’ll deny all this and reverse the allegation ;) That’s ok.
Back to business –
I’ve tried to make this debate uncluttered by focusing on a single issue at a time. We are discussing “Haj Subsidy” and you’re allegation that the BJP favors more and did more too. I dispute that.
Now to you’re arguments –
1. The media AND the Congress not having made a big issue of the so-called “22 times the previous”, growth in Haj Subsidy by the BJP regime could point to two or three things.
a. The media and the Congress DID NOT believe the BJP had in fact done it.
Or
b. They did not want the BJP to “capitalize” on its “appeasement” value, since that would undercut their own “market share”.
Or (my take)
c. It simply did not exist in real terms..and so, no discussion was really worth their salt.
2. The “reverse situation” as you state it, is actually factual. It has been a long standing demand of Hindutva organizations including the BJP that Haj Subsidies go. No surprises there.
3. I don’t see you’re “glaring” evidence of any increase. Have you ignored my evidence again? I hope you reviewed the tables in that link. Please look that the increase in Haj pilgrims’ numbers and the increase in (Rupee) subsidy. I could have shared with you later than 2006 figures but these are embarrassing enough.
4. Regulations by regime – (only since you refuse to acknowledge the evidence) ****=Highlights
Government decision about Haj 2004 – (NDA)
In view of the aforesaid recommendations, the Ministry of Civil Aviation has been making proposal for ***phased reduction**** of Haj subsidy. In its meeting held on 11th Sept. 2003, the following proposals were approved by the Government:-
The subsidized Haj fare to be permitted for each pilgrim only once in his/her life time from Haj 2004 onwards;
No Income Tax payers is allowed to avail of the subsidized far from Haj 2004 onwards. Only those pilgrims who live in the accommodation provided by Haj Committee would be eligible for the subsidized fare.
The subsidized fare would be kept at the existing level of Rs. 12,000 for Haj 2004 and the subsidy may be reduced in a phased manner in subsequent years.
Cabinet has also directed that an affidavit be obtained from the pilgrims to the effect that they have not availed the subsidized Haj fare earlier and that they are not income tax payee.
*****A large number of representations were received by the Government to withdraw the revised guidelines. Haj Committee also requested in its letter dated 9.10.2003 addressed to MEA, to defer the implementation of the part of the Government’s decision relating to exclusion of Income Tax payers, persons performing haj through CHC second time and pilgrims availing exemptions from reserved accommodation Scheme from the benefit of subsidized air fare. The Government considered the above matter and decided that the same could not be agreed to.****** (Does this sound like appeasement?)
And now –
Government decisions about Haj-2005 (UPA)
However, in its meeting held on 20th October, 2004, the following decisions have been taken by the Government:-
(i) To retain the amount of Rs. 12,000 to be paid by each pilgrim for the round trip to Jeddah/Madinah and the remaining cost as subsidy to be paid by Government to Airlines.
(ii)****To add Guwahati and Aurangabad as new embarkation points for Haj 2005 and Patna will be an embarkation point in place of Gaya.*****
(iii)**** In the current year, all persons who applied for Haj travel about 82,000 will be provided the facility; and***** (Please focus on numbers)
(iv)****Policy prevailing prior to September 2003 will be followed. However, non-income tax payees will get higher priority for availing such facilities.***(So, Income Tax payers will STILL get subsidized)
Saudi Arabian Airlines, Air India and Indian Airlines transported 80,786 pilgrims to Jeddah. There were 15 embarkation points in India from where these pilgrims were uplifted to Jeddah and carried back to same stations and these are Ahmedabad, Chennai, Delhi, Hyderabad, Kozhikode, Mumbai, Bangalore, Kolkata, Nagpur, Jaipur, Lucknow, Srinagar, Aurangabad, Guwahati and Patna. Aurangabad and Guwahati were added as new embarkation points for Haj 2005. The total subsidy for Haj 2005 comes around to Rs. 165.77 crores approximately.
Haj 2006 Operations
*****The Government on 11.8.05 decided that the number of persons performing Haj through the arrangements made by the Haj Committee under the Government subsidy scheme be increased from 82,000 to 1,00,000.******(Numbers again)
*****The Government on 16.11.06 approved the travel of 110,000 pilgrims under government subsidy scheme for performing Haj during the Haj 2006-II. This is an increase by 10,000 pilgrims from Haj 2006.*****(More numbers)
*****The government also decided to retain the fare of Rs 12,000 to be paid by each pilgrim for the round trip to Jeddah/Medina and the remaining cost to be paid by the government as subsidy to the airlines transporting the pilgrims.*****(Meaning bigger subsidies in Rupee terms)
No fresh embarkation points have been added to the existing 15 points in India from where pilgrims are taken to Jeddah and brought back. Haj 2006-II is due to commence towards end of November 2006. (You may take credit here ;))
Up to 60,000 pilgrims will be transported by Saudi Arabian Airways from Mumbai, Delhi, Ahmedabad and Hyderabad, and the balance by Air India/Indian Airlines from Kolkata, Calicut, Nagpur, Aurangabad, Patna, Guwahati, Jaipur and Srinagar.
*****There has been a steady increase in the number of Haj pilgrims 71924 in the year 2000 to 99926 in 2006. However the fare paid by each pilgrim has remained Rs. 12000 since 1994. While the subsidy per passenger in 1994 was Rs.5000, it went up to approximately Rs.28000 in 2006.****(Hmmm Rs 28000/- per Haji is the difference that Govt picked up in 2006)
So, dear NSSS, short of saying this data sheet is “minor” or “obscure” or “bogus”, you don’t have a case.
And to answer you’re triple question;
Is BJP not guilty of hypocrisy? – Illa
Is BJP not guilty of muslim appeasement? – Nahi
Is BJP not guilty of having betrayed voters like you? – Nyet
Not in the case of Haj Subsidy at least.
Here’s a more recent article.
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/Haj-subsidy-has-Air-India-fuming/360651/
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Stop rambling. Let me put things in perspective.
I have given you EVIDENCE to prove BJP increased Haj subsidy.
I dare you to give me EVIDENCE to prove BJP reduced Haj subsidy.
Simple isn’t it?
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In short, dear NSSS, you’re “evidence” is zilch, in the face of ACTUAL facts.
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Palahalli
I agreed (already four times) that UPA relaxed rules. All the links and evidence that you gave me points to the fact that UPA relaxed rules.
NONE OF THE EVIDENCE OR FACTS THAT YOU SHOWED ME INDICATES THAT NDA ACTUALLY REDUCED SUBSIDY.
My point is:
I showed evidence to prove NDA hiked subsidy.
You show me evidence/FACTS to prove that NDA reduced subsidy.
lOSER, I dare you.
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Allright NSSS, it’s clear you don’t dispute the evidence I presented.
Fine. Let’s look at the figures.
Congress Last Year – 1997 (Assumption)
Highest Point in Subsidy/Pilgrim = Rs 14600**
NDA 1998 – 2004
Lowest Point in Subsidy/Pilgrim = Rs 17405 (1998)
Highest Point in Subsidy/Pilgrim = Rs 24609 (2002)**
Please show me you’re “22 times” increase. Its clear Shahnawaz fooled you allright ;)
That’s why you’re “evidence” tells me zilch.
The UPA not just relaxed rules, it also opposed sensible regulations brought in by the NDA and made mud of the plan of phasing out Haj Subsidy altogether.
Subsidy 2007 = Rs 47,454/Pilgrim and growing!
Do you really want to discuss this further?
Knowing Shri NSSS, I’m sure you’ll divert talk about the increase between ’98 and ’02 and quietly forget about the ill fated “22 times” :) And yes! And on THAT sterling piece of “evidence” exclaim…”BJP’s appeasement of Muslims!”
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Palahalli
Thank you for finally finally finally ACCEPTING the fact that BJP increased subsidy compared to previous Cong regime.
Forget about 22 times, even if Haj Subsidy is one Rupee more than Cong regime, it is a complete mockery of BJP’s avowed principles on Subsidy.
It is a betrayl of loyal BJP voters.
It is a clear sign of muslim appeasement.
As far as the 22 times increase, are you telling me that you don’t trust BJP’s own minister?
Are you telling me that you did not trust Shri Vajpayee? Not a single cabinet minister, right from Prime Minister to local level member of BJP has denied Shahnawaz Hussein’s claim of 22 times increase?
Everybody kept quiet while the cat feasted on the milk.
Because, you see, you need to win over the muslims. Else, you cannot come to power on your own. Ever.
On every point, your bluff has been called.
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Dear NSSS has indeed been very predictable thus far.
No. I do not trust the BJP’s own minister. You are a fool to trust ANYBODY blindly without referencing facts. Not just the BJP’s ministers, but I do not trust ANYBODY’s say so without facts backing them up.
You seem to be too willing to believe that Muslims believed S. Hussain. Too bad for them if they did. They got taken in. The BJP would not give them anything but empty promises. Quite unlike the Congress that is bent on CONTINUEING and GROWING the Subsidy! Yes, Muslims can trust the Congress to do their bidding :)
This time dear NSSS, apart from the fact that you’re inherently slippery, you have also and again, proved yourself to be a spurious dope seller. Spurious dope, it is.
And of course, far be it for you’re “high” standards of honesty to acknowledge this wide open qualification in the BJP’s recommendations that the “anti-appeasement” Congress banished –
“In view of the aforesaid recommendations, the Ministry of Civil Aviation has been making proposal for ***phased reduction**** of Haj subsidy.”
Pretty sad..
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Cong never claimed it will abolish/reduce subsidy.Hence no surprises here.
BJP has been very vocal that it is dead against subsidy. Hence its duplicity sticks out .
1. You yourself agreed that BJP increased subsidy compared to previous cong regimes. You gave evidence too, for that.
Pray, tell me why did BJP increase subsidy? why? why? why? why? why?
2. you grandly state that you will not believe BJP minister. Which means you agree that BJP is full of dishonest people. Dishonesty is surely a vice, not a virtue. yet, you support that party.
3. You gave me an extract and i quote;”
“In view of the aforesaid recommendations, the Ministry of Civil Aviation has been making proposal for ***phased reduction**** of Haj subsidy.”
Please note Palahall: It states Ministry of Civil Aviation has been MAKING PROPOSAL.’
The key word is “MAKING PROPOSAL.”
Making proposals is one thing and they way the act is another.
They made proposals for phased reduction, but in reality they increased subsidy.
Funny how you believe words on a paper, but you don’t believe their real action – and that is they increased subsidy.
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You needed evidence Palahalli, that BJP is wooing Muslims.
I can give you one a day.
Here is the first link.
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2004/01-15May04-Print-Edition/0105200489.htm
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Dear NSSS…so you’re agreed that the Congress openly appeases Muslims.
I’d much prefer a BJP which waves a magic wand at Muslims with promises of “increased Subsidy” and “2 crore Urdu teachers”…than one (Congress)which actually deprives the National Majority and confirms first claim on all resources to Muslims.
And you fall for such “honesty”?
Pretty sad…
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Palahalli
i have always maintained both cong and BJP are into muslim votes.
The difference is Cong is not apologetic about it.
BJP does it stealthily.
WHen BJP does it stealthily, the so called politically aware guys like you are also fooled.
That.
That is the difference between an honest Cong and a dishonest BJP.
MORE IMPORTANTLY and SIGNIFICANTLY in the past 10 years, BJP has beaten Cong black and blue in its effort to win Muslim votes.
Congress is depriving national majority? are you nuts?
1. Is that why all Cong CMs are Hindus?
2. is that why Cong elected President is a Hindu?
3. Is that why over 95% of Union Cabinet Ministers are Hindus?
4.Is that why Cong first tested the first ‘Hindu’ nuclear bomb?
5. Is that why under Congress fifty odd years of rule, Hindus are far far far far education, jobs and other socio economic criteria?
6. Is that why all the top cabinet posts from PM, to home, to finance to external affairs to defence to agriculture to railways belong to non-muslims?
This 6 is just for starters. I can give you any number of instances which show Cong is highly partial to Hindus.
That statement from PM was interpreted wrongly, as was subsequently stated.
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Dear NSSS first says he believes the Congress is into Muslim votes and a half minute later, asserts that same Congress is a virtually Hindutva fire eating entity :)
He also ignores the fact that the BJP has not given away anything to Muslims but empty assurances.
He also covers up for the Congress by claiming a “misquote”. But of course ;)
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Palahalli,
Did you say BJP has not given away anything to Muslims but empty assurances?
Hahahaah.
is that why BJP increased Haj subsidy?
Is that why BJP gave support to Fundamentalist Muslims by opposing nuclear deal?
Is that why BJP concretely gave crores to Madaras?
Is that why BJP gave crores to minority fund in karnataka?
is that why Gujarat adminstration supported Pakistan saying India has not given evidence that Kasab is a Pakistani? (read Indian Express dated 20th Jan 2008)
is that why illegal temples were concretely demolished in Gujarat?
is that why BJP was playing gracious host to Musharaff at Taj Mahal, while his army along with ISI was busy plotting to kill Indian jawans?
Also, note that I did not say that our PM was ‘misquoted’. i said he was interpreted wrongly.
there is a sea of difference between the two.
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Dear NSSS, you’re not a nitwit. Why did you say that about Modi on Kasab?
http://www.dailypioneer.com/150791/Modi-flays-UPA-on-Kasabs-statements.html
On MMS, please tell us the “correct” interpretation of his ridiculous policy statement.
Quickly now;
On Haj – Congress is King
On Nuclear Deal – It is not without loopholes
On Madrasas – Congress is King
On Muslims (Let’s be frank) – Congress is King
On illegal Temples – Are you argueing for such illegal Temples?
* Why did the Congress stop the Dargah demolition?
On the BJP hosting Mush – Be clearer.
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Self Confessed Admirer of A Murderer Palahalli
Modi has reported to have said India’s evidence to Pakistan doesn’t count for much. Indirectly he is supporting Pakistan. That is what Indian Express has reported. Ask Express. I gave you the date also.
You cannot quickly dismiss the points just because you are running out of defense.
On Haj: BJP claimed it is for abolishing of subsidy. But it actually increases subsidy. Clearly this is pesudo secularism at its worst.
On nuclear deal: You cannot question the credentials of Abdul Kalam, the former president of India and also nuclear expert. If he says its ok, then it must be damn good for India.
Also, fundamental muslims and BJP both were opposed to the deal.
On Madaras- BJP is the new king. It has displaced Cong
On Muslims- More and more muslims are shifting their loyalties from Cong to BJP.
On illegal temples – BJP did not demolish 200 illegal mosques – this is pseudo secualarism at its worst.
BJP was hosting Mush when actually mush’s friends were planning or already executed the attack on India’s temple – the parliament.
Full marks to Congress for bringing huge international pressure on Pakistan in such a way that Pak is forced to admit kasab is theirs
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Dear NSSS, don’t you tire of false arguments?
1. Self Confessed Admirer of A Murderer Palahalli
– Yes. I admire Godse’s politics. What part of that do you have a problem with?
2. On Kasab, Modi was stating a fact of law. “Intellectuals” like yourself should be able to comprehend what he said. What do you mean “indirect support”?! One post earlier you were shouting it was direct! How can you be so imbalanced?
3. On Haj Subsidy, the BJP was/is very clear that it must be phased out. You’re much bought and touted “22 times” came a cropper and I understand you feel lousy about it. So, now you keep head banging about “increase” in subsidy! Tell us who started this subsidy in the first place and explain what you’re “Hindu” Congress is doing these days!
4. Nuclear Deal – Rama! Rama! Kalam is a Nuke expert now??? Prove it before I waste my time with you on this!
5. On Madrasas – Please check with you’re master Arjun Singh before commenting on his pet “schools”!
6. On Muslims shifting loyalties :) – Prove it if you don’t want to be laughed out of court!
7. On illegal Mosques – Did you forget to tell me why you’re “nationalist” Congress stopped the demolition of the Dargah?
8. On Mush and Parliament – I wish you could respect you’re own lies if you cannot respect you’re opponents’ facts!
The Agra Summit – July 2001
Parliament attack – Dec 2001
But of course, the professional twister that you are, you will now claim that the Pakis were “planning” and not “executing”!
And please don’t make a bigger fool of yourself by gloating over our government’s supposed toughness on Pakistan.
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Self Confessed Admirer of A Murderer, Palahalli
1. Godse’s claim to fame is his murder. What else do you admire about him? if it his philosophy, then i must say it is his perverted philosophy which lead to the murder.
2. Modi is reported to have said an international delegation that Indian evidence does not amount to much. This is compltely against indian govt. there was no need to blast Indian in front of a pakistan govt.
At the end of it, Pakistan felt Indian evidence amounted to nothing.
Modi felt Indian evidence amounted to nothing.
Both are in the same ship.
3.You yourself agreed BJP is full of dishonest people. Which is why BJPs minister said the hike was 22 times. Not a single BJP minister or even Vajpayee contradicted what Shahnawaz said. Which means the 22 times must be true. Or else if it not true, then BJP govt, was lying to the nation.
And lying to the nation is not a good thing.
Again you yourself agreed BJP hiked Haj subsidy. Therefore BJP is a pseudo secular party.
4.Abdul Kalam is a science man. Surely he knows more about the nuclear stuff than you and me .. who are laymen. You are throwing aspersions on the most respected man in India. Shame on you.
5. On Madaras, BJP says one thing and does another. But with Cong,there is no such duplicity.
6.Shifting Muslim loyalties…i can give one link a day. the first one already sent saying 25% muslims voted for BJP in karnattaka.
7. Modi did not demolish 200 dargahs like he did 200 temples.
8. Of course our ex home minister was sleeping, when Pak was busy planning to attack Indian parliament. In July 2001 when India was cozying up to Pak at Agra, these pakistanis were busy pliotting attack on Indian govt.
What was our home minister doing..was his intelligence sources absent?
Shame on you for supporting such a weakling of a govt.,
enjoy your weekend.
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Dear NSSS…
Very quickly;
1. On Godse, I suggest you read about him. Start with his statement in court and then move to the presiding Judge’s opinion about his motivation and the possible outcome of that trial, if it were under a Jury system. Don’t stop there but go on to read about Ambedkar’s meeting with Bhopatkar. I admire Godse not because of his “fame”. Must surprise Congress pups like yourself that someone not “famous” can be admired at all.
Read and get back to me. That discussion will be worthwhile.
2. On Modi and Kasab, you’re twisting and turning is hilarious and infuriating in turns. Please do not think everybody must act the Congress lackey! Modi was speaking at the 19th All India Forensic Science Conference in Ahmedabad. Not to a Paki/foreign delegation! Moreover, please grow the intellectual ability to understand his statement!
3. If you feel you should believe statements without verifying them, be my guest. The rest of what you wrote is utter rubbish!
4. On Haj, the BJP has acted and seen to be acting per its stated goal. Digest this fact.
5. On Kalam, do not lie on an open forum again. It is manly to admit you’re wrong. Else you will be fried.
6. On Madarsas, thanks for admitting that the Congress breeds treason.
7. Ha! Mumtaz Ali Khan’s grovelling statement does NOT pass as evidence Simple :) When I ask for proof, I want hard electoral data. Get back to me.
8. On the Dargha, thanks for admitting that the Congress has no MEN in it.
9. On Agra and Parliament, I was right about you again. You’re slime leaves a trail.
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Admirer of Murderer Palahalli,
If you want me to read about a murder for me to start admiring him, let me tell you very clearly. Nothing can justify murder. No amount of reading about Godse can make me admire him. That’s because he is a plain perverted murderer.
Instead of lazily throwing the ball back in my court, (since you have read so much about Godse) I suggest you give me three strong reasons why you admire Godse.
When you cannot give me reasons, you start obfuscating the issue.
Three top reasons, Palahalli. or I shall have to conclude that you are running away with your tail well in between your legs.
2. Which village are you living in Palahalli? Whatever Modi spoke about was reported in the media. Anything picked up by the media can be seen across the world. Obviously even pakistan can see it. Pakistani’s got a shot in the arm that a CM Of India is actually supporting Paki’s views about India not having enough evidence about Kasab.
Not surprising about BJP’s behaviour.
Because time and again they have showed to be on Pakistan’s side”
a) Jinnah comment
b) Nuclear deal.
c) Agra summit fiasco
3. It’s easy to say what i wrote was rubbish. what exactly was rubbish? When you can’t explain you start putting a veil over yourself. Speak objectively please.
4.On Haj, BJP incrased the subsidy. THIS IS GLARLINGLY OPPOSITE TO ITS STATED CLAIM. you accepted BJP raised subsidy. now you are chickeing out again.
5.On Kalam, the whole world knows he supported nuclear deal. So where is the question of lying?
6.On Madaras,,,when did i admite congress breeds treason? its a figment of your Sangh slavish attitude.
7. Ha! You are time and again questioning BJP ministers’ facts. you say it is not 25% muslims. you say it is not 22% haj subsidy increased by BJP.
Both these NUMBERS came from your very own BJP.
That means you are distrusting BJP. Both the above facts were stated OFFICIALY by BJP.
ANd not a single CM or anybody from BJP has denied the numbers stated by both these ministers,.
8. Are you equating one dargah with 200 temples? I pity you.
9. On Agra and Parliament, lets face it. Admit the fact that while our then intelligence was sleeping, Musharaff was charming Indian media, while his men were busy plotting Parliament attack.
how can you support the then sleeping govt.? don’t you have any national pride.
Stop being a slave of the sangh parivar.
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Dear NSSS – You have become secondary to any discussion. I’ll let you figure that out.
* I admire Godse because;
1. He was a sterling patriot.
2. He was guided by the best intentions for his people.
3. He did not plead for clemency.
* On Modi and Kasab, you are intellectually barren. Sorry to say.
Worse, you argue like Gilani! I noticed the similarity in convoluted thinking when I read the PTI report. http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0/B4E2D474AA2AC8FD652575470058364F?OpenDocument
****
Now…
http://www.newkerala.com/topstory-fullnews-70329.html
Consider this – “New Delhi, Jan 6 : Taking a dig at the Centre for ‘making a mockery of the anti-terror law by not including confessions before police Officers as evidence’, Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi today wondered how could Pakistan accept Mumbai terror accused Kasab’s confessions as evidence when India’s own laws did not consider them so.”
If Kasab was produced before an Indian court, his confession would not hold water under UAPA.
Read the link – http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Unlike_US_Indian_courts_dont_accept_confession_to_cops/rssarticleshow/3860465.cms
“No such warning is given in India because a confession to the police anyway cannot be used against an accused in courts, unless he happens to be booked under special laws like MCOCA and the long lapsed POTA. The latest terror legislation, Unlawful Activities Prevention Act (UAPA), has not tinkered with the general safeguard of making custodial confessions inadmissible in evidence.”
So, stop arguing like a complete fool!
You’re other points are not worth their weight in bull shit!
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Admirer of Murderer Palahalli,
Please look at my previos posting, where i have responded to each and every goofy point of yours.
Also, here is fresh evidence that BJP is wooing Muslims. Look at what your PM in waiting is doing:
Source: yahoo.co.in. (news of today Jan 24th 2009)
Advani says his Ayodhya Rath Yatra was not anti-Muslim
Fri, Jan 23 09:08 PM
New Delhi, Jan 23(PTI) With only around 100 days away from the Lok Sabha polls, senior BJP leader L K Advani has used his urdu website to reach out to Muslims to say he is in no way related to the Babri Masjid demolition. In a writing posted in Urdu in his website he says, “Kya meri yatra Muslim Mukhalif thi, bilkul nahi (was my yatra against the Muslims? No, never.
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Admirer of Murderer Palahalli
1.Godse is a patriot? Get your brains checked. A person who murders the father of the nation is an anti national. A preson who brought grief to millions of Indians is at best insanse, not patriotic.
2. Godse was guided by the best intentions of his people? who are his people? some lunatic fringe madmen?
3. Godse did not appeal for clemency? and you saw this as a shining vitue? there are so many pyschopaths who don’t beg for mercy, they too go to gallows willingly.
there are so many terrorists who don’t beg for clemency. They believe they willingly go the gallows. they believe in a martyr’s death, according to them.
So according to you, Godse falls in that category.
4. On Modi and Kasab, i never made any charge. I just told you what was reported in Indian express. That BJP is supporting Pakistan’s point of view that India does not have evidence that Kasab is a pakistani. In the link that you sent me, Pakistan’s PM himself has told that Modi supports Pakistan’s point of view thta Indian evidence is no evidence.
Like i told , no surprises
a) right from freeing those Kandhar terrorists
b) to opposing nuclear deal
c) to praising Jinnah
There was absolutely no need for Modi to say such things about Kasab – whether Indian courts admit it as evidence or not. We as Indians should close ranks and become one against Pakistan. whether or law has loopholes or not, we should not let pakistan get the better of us.
ALSO MR PALAHALLI, his confession was NOT THE SOLE evidence that Kasab was a pakistani. Pakistan’s own media has gone to his town and secrely recorded conversations with Kasab’s family.
Also there are a series of telephone transcripts that point to kasab being a Paki.
Shouldn’t BJP support India’s point of view with such overwhelming evidnec? Instead your party chooses to pick some archair loophole in the law, to SUPPORT pakistan’s point of view! what a shame!
5.I already sent you a link on Yahoo to show how your PM in waiting is looking forward to woo Muslims in urdu .
Since you did not respond to my other points, i take it that your tail is well inbetween your legs.
On that note, Mr. Slave of Sangh Parivar.
Enjoy your weekend
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Godse killed Gandhi –
Gandhi who promised Hindus; “Pakistan over my dead body”…and went to pray when Pakistan came.
Gandhi and Congress criminals who again promised Hindus safety on partition, only to watch them be trapped and butchered by Muslim thugs.
Why…the Congress party is a scoundrel’s sanctuary. They even fought the ’46 elections on the plank of a United India and won only to betray their greatest supporters, Hindus.
Never in history have the Hindus been duped so badly by such petty rogues.
So, let’s not talk about this pig’s sty.
On Modi, you will not understand. You do not have the necessary brain.
Our unfortunate country’s scoundrel government, today, plays to Pakistan’s rules of the game. No “evidence” you throw at Pakistan will help. You idiots do not yet understand that or are taking this easy and safe route out of responsibility.
And you want to hide you’re Congress’ incompetence under the BJP’s petticoat??
You have the nerve to throw Advani’s statement at me and claim it was something new?? Show me ONE speech of Advani during the Rath Yatra that was anti-Muslim!
Foolish Simple…..Advani is technically right and you cannot prove him wrong. Good, you’re Muslim pals will fall for such tactics and will vote for the BJP (If you’re miraculous claim of 25% happens).
I have no time to waste on you’re “other” points. Like I said earlier, they are not worth their weight in bull-shit.
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Palahalli
You are using emotions to scribble your points.
Emotions will get you nowhere.
Congres and Gandhi got us independence
BJP was doing nothing when Cong and Gandhi got us independence.
yet you have the gall to heap abuses on Congress.
yet you have the audacity to call congressmen as criminals and pigs
Without Gandhi and Congress, you would have been polishing the boots of British today.
But i never expect any gratitude from you, coz you are a slave.
Slaves of any ideology are dangerous for the society.
Regarding Kasab, Pakisan finally accepted Kasab was a Pakistani.
Which means Congress’s evidence has worked.
Whichmeans Congress’s relenteless pressure on Pak through other countries worked.
In contrast, after the parilament attack, BJP did notthing to bring international pressure on Pak.
Pak got away lightly then.
Use your pisspot to piss. Don’t use this forum to excrete your poisonous piss.
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You accuse me of having the nerve?
Why do i need to have the nerve to show you what Advani has said?
I never said it was something new.
I am only saying it is BJP’s way of wooing Muslims. BJP is trying to capture Muslims as its vote bank, by writing in Urdu in websites.
you were in denial that BJP is not wooing muslims. BUt under my relentless onslaught of ‘evidence’ after ‘evidence’ you have finally crumbled and accepted that Muslims are voting for BJP
And that 25% Muslims voting for BJP is not my figure. IT IS AN OFFICIAL FIGURE GIVEN BY BJP. GO FIGURE OUT.
SOMETHINGS NEVER GET INTO YOUR HEAD, EVEN IF IT IS DRILLED AD NAUSEAUM.
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Dear NSSS, so very wrong yet again.
Congres and Gandhi got us independence – Wrong. They were a part of what got us our independence. You’re days of claiming a monopoly are long gone.
What you call “my emotion” are actually hot enough points that would roast pigs at the stake. Answer them!
On Kasab, you still do not get the point. Sad.
On Advani, where is the question of “wooing” Muslims? If they believe the BJP, they will come. If not, there is always the ever willing Congress, isn’t there?
25% was not an “official” figure. It was taken from a statement issued by Mumtaz Ali Khan. Btw, why are you so willing to believe it? Coming as it does from an “untrustworthy” BJP. Have you seen that figure being backed up with proper data?
Breaking News – Chidambaram takes the “Jaswant” line on the 1999 hijacking :)
http://canadianarmedforcesblogger.blogspot.com/2009/01/chidambaram-rises-above-party-politics.html
Now you might want to talk about the “large heartedness” of Congress louts…and I might agree :)
Sweet dreams pardner!
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“Congres and Gandhi got us independence
BJP was doing nothing when Cong and Gandhi got us independence.”
I believe JDS, RJD and many others were also doing nothing. You and I were also doing nothing when Congress and Gandhi got us independence.
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Cant you guys hold onto your cheddis/knickers till election time?
Then you can unleash your looong garbage posts on the forum of why your respective teams won/lost.
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bomma – You see, I’m not into party politics. I’m just having some fun with dear ol’ Not-So Simple Simon here ;)
But…now him…he really thinks the Cong-I will win pants down! Ain’t it Simple?
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Admirer of Murderer Palahalli
Chiddu supports Kandahar, maybe. But Indira Gandhi had shown HOW STRONG SHE could be. SHE DID NOT SUCCUMB To blackmail tactics..(remember, the earlier link which showed INdira being the toughest on terror?)
Congress and Gandhi were a VERY IMPORTANT part of what got us Independence. While the sangh parivar was nowhere on the scene.
Emotions which can roast a pig …is surely not good enough to digest. It will give you brain fever and other such dieseases.
Dude, if I cannot give you official figures, SO CANT YOU GIVE ME ANY OFFICIAL FIGURE To prove muslims vote for Congress.
But strangelyyou have nothing to say to PM in waiting writing in Urdu to woo Muslims.
On Kasab, we should FORGET our differences and stand as one AGAINST Pakistan, instead of supporting Pakistan’s viewpoint.
tch tch…sorry, that can’t get such a simple viewpoint.
Bomma
WHy should i stop? this wont stop until the last results of the 2009 poll are out.
And Palahalli.
No. As usual you are being presumptious. When did i ever say Cong will win?
Breaking News: NDTV gives lifetime achievement award to Advani.
This from a channel which has been accused of being a pro congress channel repeatdly by people like you.
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Twisting and twirling as usual. Waste!
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Palahalli,
When you carry your heavy ideological baggage of hatred, the danger is you may just crumble and fall to the ground.
Throw the baggage of hate, off your shoulders.
Lighten up.
Cheer up.
P.S.” What am i ‘twisting’? what am i ‘twirling?” When you cannot answer me, you say I am a waste.
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Promise me you won’t change you’re nickname again? :)
And,
Try to analyse this statement –
“Chiddu supports Kandahar, maybe. But Indira Gandhi had shown HOW STRONG SHE could be. SHE DID NOT SUCCUMB To blackmail tactics..(remember, the earlier link which showed INdira being the toughest on terror?)” – Where is the connexion? Should I now suppose, per you’re own reasoning, that the Indira era was better than the UPA era? Then what happens to all you’re previous propaganda about the UPA era being better than the previous Congress regimes???
You’re twisting and twirling like a top. One does not debate with a top in action; one just stands back and watches in amazement.
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AoM Palahalli
In yesterday’s Face the nation programme of CNN IBN at 10 pm, Pramila Nesargi was one of the guests on this talk show.
She was at her usual screeching best. she claimed at the top of her voice that no Congress govt. has given as much money to the minority fund as the present BJP govt. in Karnataka.
I can give you the link to that also.
there you have it in black and white. Concrete Minority appeasement.
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AoM Palahalli
It is Chiddu’s PERSONAL OPINION
Like you twisted and squirmed when you said it is shahnawaz’s PERSONAL OPINION about 22% increase in haj subsidy
You twisted and squirmed and said it is BJP ministers PERSONAL OPINION when he said that 25% muslims voted for BJP
You twisted and squirmed when you said that it was Jaswanth Singhs PERSONAL OPINION when he said that HE WOULD repeat Kandahar swapping of terrorists for hostanges
You twisted and squirmed when you said it was Advani’s PERSONAL OPINION when he said Jinnah was secular.
Your twists and turns can put any spin doctor to shame
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Wrong yet again Simpallu…
I have never claimed that these were “personal opinions”.
Oh yes, I forgot to add. You manufacture “truths”.
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Palahalli
What if you did not claim it as personal opinion, then is it BJP’s opinion that
a) 25% Muslims voted for BJP?
You get the drift, i suppose.
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Palahalli
Oh. So you did not claim it as personal opinion, then surey it must be BJP’s opinion that
a) 25% Muslims voted for BJP?
b) BJP will again exchange terrorists for hostages
c) Jinnah is a wonderfully secular man.
If it is not personal, then it should be party’s official statement.
How many times you gonna put that facist foot in your hippo mouth?
also, you never replied to what Pramila nesargi told about how BJP gave the max. amount (better than Congress govt) to minority fund.
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All that bloggers concern themselves with is terrorism/security. This is the concern of the few.
Every half hour, and Indian farmer commits suicide. That’s the condition of Indian agriculture. The are least concerned with terrorism.
And BJP is better for fighting terrorism? This must be a joke. And coming from ignorance of the Indain realities and federal structure.
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sir Bjp and congress will be most reliable factor in this poll. approximately third front will not be chance to win this delhi sultanat. in colcota cpm must hang the politics. Gujrat must same positive result from both party. in alover gujrat 15 congress and 16 for bjp will be win this poll. maharatsra and delhi both pictures not clear. up try to fix the mayavati image but not last chance. in maharatra congs and bjp 50 vote of confidednce in the people. punjab will be defferent picture here akali gets benefit result . kashmir and karanataka will ganin good picture for bjp. bihar lalu and nithish will not last chance. but this nda clear this picture or sonia can comes back in the feature . wait and watch the poll tv news.
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BJP does not have leaders of the stature of Chidambaram, Pranab Mukerjee, Manmohan, Kamalnath. They have an 81 year old fundamentalist Advani who is trying to build a new image as a moderate. India needs youth not a person with one feet in the grave. Second in command to this old man is the Genocide specialist Modi who think she has brought prosperity to Gujarat and most BJP supporters beleieve in this lies. Gujarat was always prosperous (I mean the 35% upper caste there).
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