Editorial in Deccan Herald, Bangalore:
“If women have been at the receiving end of moral policing by Hindutva elements till now, it is now the turn of the Karnataka police to join the party by busting birthday celebrations…. The action has scant defence in law and is an intrusion into the private lives of people.
“Rave parties have been targets of self-proclaimed custodians of morality for long. A few months ago, Rakshana Vedike activists attacked a party and manhandled the participants and even stole some of their belongings. But Sunday’s busted party had nothing rave about it….
“Police should respect people’s rights, but what the police love to do is to use a sledgehammer to persecute people. The revellers of Sunday are said to have been “scantily dressed.” Is it the business of the police or anybody to pass judgment on how people dress at a private party and punish them for it?
“Karnataka’s social life is already under threat from the senseless acts of a cultural mafia which bash up women in pubs, punish girls for talking to boys and do not believe in equal rights for all people. The police have been soft on these retrograde elements, probably because the political environment is conducive to these backward ideas and encourages such elements.
“Now the cops have gone a step forward, and are themselves trying to act as protectors of the false tradition these elements lay claim to. Law and order and culture should not be mixed up wrongly. The police in Bangalore have a lot of other things to worry about. Rather than misspend their energy on youngsters’ parties, they should try to make life safe for the City’s citizens.”
Read the full editorial: Morality play
Photographs: “Scantily dressed” girls arrested by the police during a “rave party” at a farm house near Dodda Aladamara in Bangalore on Sunday (Karnataka Photo News)
Also read: How girls pissing in their pants protect Hinduism
churumuri 
Dear All,
I am dismayed by this act of police! WTF is going on!! Yeddi should be shown the door for turning out to be a total backward Taliban moron. Also, why are the women covering up their faces as if they were up to no good? They should walk boldly and smile at the cameras. Even if some of them did take any sort of recreational drug or otherwise what laws have they broken? I am totally exasperated by this asshole Yeddi and will some one explain to me why we have a CM who is attending 24/7 religious duties! Doesn’t have enough work to do with the State’s problems? Shame on you Yeddi.
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I fully agree with the author of the article, the citizens have the right to drink, part and dance as per their wish in their own private parties. The police thought of it as Rave party and expected to find drugs, when they couldn’t find any they filed cases on excise and obscene acts. How can the police file a case, when the party is a private one, the girls and guys didn’t dance in public, it’s a private party for god sake. When supreme court said two consenting adults can have sex in private as per their wish, then people can dance in anyway in private as per their wish.
When ever police or any other group do such things infringing the freedom and rights of people we reaming mute spectators. Apart from writing comments like these and discussing with friends, what can we do to stop the infringement of the Citizen rights?. We always remain mute spectators some times expressing concern and going on with out work, and feeling happy that we were not there in that part. But we tend to forget that when we start to remain silent for such acts, then the day is ot too far when we find ourselves in another such/related situation. Till then remain mute and wait.
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Let the law take its course :-) !! Why care about a bunch of idiots who can pay 1500 bucks to attend a “birthday” party??
We have more serious issues to take care of:
https://churumuri.wordpress.com/2009/03/04/while-you-were-swigging-that-bisleri-bottle-sexily/
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Party goers here have broken no law whatsover..thats all should matter to the cops. They have no business whatsover to haul up people like this and hurt their pride..
Having a drink at a party is no crime and I dont understand why people are trying to cover their face..i will be most happy if any one them takes to cops to court for illegality
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Even assuming that the ‘Karnataka Excise Act’ was broken, the heat should be on the organizers and owner of that resort, not on the partygoers. What kind of precedent is this setting? Tomorrow if I pay money and go to any event (not necessarily a ‘party’), I am liable to be arrested for the organizers’ laxity in obtaining a licence?? What assholism?
All the same, I’m waiting for the ‘culture defenders of churumuri’ to come crawling out of the woodwork.
And if the residents around were disturbed by noise, the police could have shut off the music and at most, bundled all the partygoers back home. What they did was just too much.
And if one looks at Dr. VS Acharya and LK Advani’s blogs, one can see an abundance of sycophants and boot-lickers commenting there and wailing about how biased the media always is against the BJP. But to Dr. Acharya’s credit, he has allowed quite a few divergent comments this time.
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Most of the ENGLISH Media have a axe to grind as they cary ad’s for the Liquor companies.Else why would they take umbrage at this action of the POLICE.Surely no one here is even suggesting that the Cops called up the CM and asked permission to Act at 3 am.Yeddi must have also been enjoying at thta time.Give me a break.
There is a law and it was voilated.So action needs to be taken.
I have seen several Pseudo’s here advocating ban on Loud Music during the Ganesh Festival or Diwala.Is this not similar.Loud Music inconvience to the Public.How does it matter if it is done in the RURAL area ?? are they not human beings.Are PARTY ANIMALS Important.
Lets not forget the police acted on a complaint given by the people in the neighbourhood not on the basis of some hearsay.
My 2 cents
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Since you can’t throw out Yeddi now, the only other alternative left is not to vote for them in the coming general elections. Can anyone clarify, if the party goers have actually violated any law? Even if they have done so, why does police department arrest with so much of publicity as if they have caught a bunch of terrorists! And why is media giving so much attention? If they stop telecasting news items like these, half of the such “raids” can be reduced.
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The police action is totally undemocratic. They should be suspended and arrested. Their actions guided by the RSS is destroying the demoractic and liberal values enshrined in the constitution.
The Sangh Parivar is showing us the taste of their version of Hindu rashtra and Ram Rajya. I always thought the best aspect of Hindu religion was its celebratory festivals – the festival of lights and colors. Do they not consume Bhang – Marijuana mixed with Milk and almonds on the occassion of Holi. What about the Rasa Leela of Krishna. Was it not flirty and joyful. How about Krishna stealing the clothes of Gopis. What about the Naga Sadus in Kumbh Mela displaying all their privates in front of millions.
Sangh Parivar folks are fundamentalist morons who are illiterate about the culture of India. Have they read or even heard about Bhagavatham, Jayadeva’s Gita Govinda, do they know anything at all about Kalidasa and his writing, so full of Rasa. Have they read Brathrahari’s three treatises and specifically the Sringara Shataka. What about the Kamasutra and Kokashatra. What about the eclectic tradition of Tantra. Are they not part of Hindu culture. Have they seen the temples built during the glory period of Hinduism – Temples of Khajaroho, Konark, Belur and Halebidu. The women in the temple sculptures exhibit high fashion and are dressed scantily. About so called drug culture, Patanjali the author of Yoga Sutras expounds in the very first verse in the last chapter of the yoga sutras that Drugs (aushada) can be used as a way to attain Siddhis and perfection.
It is clear the RSS morons have got the idea of Hindutva from Wahhabi Islam/Taliban or as many suggest the Nazis. These fascist idiots know next to nothing about Indian culture or religions. They are just a bunch of hooligans out to destroy happiness and joy in soceity and impose their rigid version of culture and morals. With their ugly baggi khaki chaddis and their lathis they are a blot on our aesthetics and culture.
If the Police really want to control the so called Drug menace, they should go catch the peddlers and their dons. Some of these hubs are well known in Bangalore and they operate under full police protection. The BJP government like the other governemnts in Karnataka is also close to the arrack dons and liquor barons. They are major contributors to their party fund and election expenses. The problem of Alcoholism in India is mainly in the rural areas where cheap liquor is consumed by the populace blessed by political lobbies. These villagers also do not eat well to commensurate the hard cheap liquor consumed. Just go to these villages in karnataka and see the poor alcoholic labourers with their blood shot eyes and underdeveloped sick bodies. That is ugly. Why dont these morons go there and reform these villagers. Are these poor Dalits not part of Indian culture.
The rave parties these people target are as a matter of fact closely allied with eastern spiritual mysticism with their trance music and conciousness expanding drugs. They are the modern version of beatniks, hippies and flower children. In the ehtical and humanistic scale, I would any day place a hippy higher than a raving religious fundamentalist wearning Baggy Khaki pants and a lathi.
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Trayambakam Shastri – Its clear you’re raving.
Are you raving against the Police action with full evidence of what went on or are you raving against the Sangh because of God knows what?!
So you want Rave parties huh? I went to one such party near Nandi hills (Have many friends who are regulars – Do you know that you can buy a snake bite for couple of hundred rupees? It gives you an “Eastern” high :)) and saw liberal sex spiced with excreta and vomit from drug induced “providers”. No one knew what they were doing.
There was another fellow from the UK who had come on business and stayed on to attend one of these “raves”. Overdose of drugs, cost him his liver, kidneys..suffered a stroke and lost his job. Got shipped back to his country. Young chap. I just hope his fellow ravers are providing for his family.
“In the ehtical and humanistic scale, I would any day place a hippy higher than a raving religious fundamentalist wearning Baggy Khaki pants and a lathi.” – Certainly. Be my guest. It’s all too clear you don’t understand either of these specimens.
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“In the ehtical and humanistic scale, I would any day place a hippy higher than a raving religious fundamentalist wearning Baggy Khaki pants and a lathi.”
Well said Trayambakam Shastri. You have my vote man!!!
“And if the residents around were disturbed by noise, the police could have shut off the music and at most, bundled all the partygoers back home. What they did was just too much.”
This simple fact is something that goons do not understand!!!
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I just hope that we have dictatorship in this country and than we have policemen with whips walking around delivering instant justice as per the perception of the dictator, whipping every middle class indian’s arse so that we can finally wake up to the notion of freedom. As long as each one of us gets the short end of the stick, quite literally, the notion of individual freedom will never sink in.
All said, if the noise was disturbing than police had the right to fine the organisers and shut down the party immediately. Nothing more. If any of us here thinks (people more often here seem to believe than think) that what happened was justified, may the dictator arrive here early.
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Btw..Trayambakam Shastri is right about Hindu culture’s allowance for all the stuff he lists.
Aghoras too are part of this culture. Having sex with the dead, consuming portions of human flesh, having sex without ejaculating. Devotion and worship through other means. “Left Hand of God”
Shastriji, why not? Such excesses (?) are limited to few and isolated places, are they not?
Simple point being those practices that strengthen society, will gain approval and those that do not, will not. More accurately, Hindu society allows for development per individual’s maturity and levels of development of mental faculties. Therefore the diversity.
The Sangh takes no position on such controversies. Don’t drag them into it in such a callous manner.
As far as work being done in our rural areas, why don’t you check with the VHP and the Vanvasi Kalyan folks? Instead of raving, that is.
And Vinay, please note that this bokachoding by me was induced by Shastri, much like the drug he loves.
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@ Prasad
Assuming what you are saying – neighbours complained, hence cops came in – is true..what business do cops have to parade and arrest people ? If its noisy nuisance, the cops are supposed to take away the music instruments and perhaps serve a notice on the organiser. Can the cops haul up and parade people for plauing loud music ? Not in India sir…
Pls note cops can do this anywhere including your and my house tomorrow..thats the worry
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“And Vinay, please note that this bokachoding by me was induced by Shastri, much like the drug he loves.”
Saar, can we look at each issue on individual merit/demerit? I too know a few things about Rave parties. In this case, what is the case finally? Excise act? Why subject all partygoers to all this? Why not come down on the owner of the place for not complying with laws?
Fact of the matter is, the police was 100% sure that they’d find drugs there, and there was no trace. Hence the excise act charges.
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“Most of the ENGLISH Media have a axe to grind as they cary ad’s for the Liquor companies.Else why would they take umbrage at this action of the POLICE.”
Wow.. what a skewed logic. Then all billboard owners who rent out space for these liquor companies may have an axe to grind as well!!
“There is a law and it was voilated.So action needs to be taken.”
Could you please tell what is this law which exists that has been violated ?
And what the fvck does taking action mean ?? Parading the helpless women like they are some terrorists ? (Come to think of it, even the terrorists are treated like royalty in India…!)
However,
I am sure there is no Yeddi’s hand in this episode. Just some over zealous, publicity hungry police officer’s great idea to win favors from his higher officials!
The complaint would be against loud music and Police have every right to stop the music. But not to arrest and parade these women.
T Shastri
Why do you need to drag RSS here when all these glorious actions was taken by Police. If anything please criticize the police and spare another RSS bashing (which will only derail the whole issue.. as you will see now)
Vinay
“This simple fact is something that goons do not understand!!!”
This time it was Police goons :)….
These acts are exactly what out esteemed police is capable of…not the ones which actually matter (terrorism et al). The way the police terrorizes common folk for traffic violations/ pick pockets/ chain snatching etc etc convinces me that there must be a massive reformation of police force…
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Goldstar: You ask – why care about them???
Guess you have never read the poem “..and then they came for me.”
BJP is implementing an agenda where it is imposing its narrow cultural view point. If your view point differs from theirs, then you spend a few nights in jail or get beaten up!!!
Palahalli: Apparently you are more experienced than most of the folks here. I don’t know what a rave party is, neither do I care. If anyone had drugs in a party, then they have broken the law – let them be punished.
Last I checked, consuming liquor is not a crime in this country. So, if people do that in their private premises (or rented places) it is none of govt’s. business as long as it isn’t harming anyone else.
First police said you can’t consume liquor after 11.30, then they started stopping parties in private premises at 11.30, now they say you can’t even consume liquor and dance at a private residence?
What are police trying to do? What next, come to your bedrooms to see what is it you do??
They better focus on people robbing and killing people in their homes.
Oh, before anyone jump to any conclusions, I am a teetotaler, and have never been to any parties that involve booze or dancing. Don’t like either – But, I would appreciate the right of people to do so…
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Prasad:
Do you know which law was violated? In fact, they had to invent charges for people who they had already arrested! Get the facts right – There was no formal complaint lodged with the police (no FIR). This was a pre-emptive raid and they invented the charges afterwards.
Besides, why have so much irritation against English Channels on this issue? They are doing their job here. When they do go overboard, they got slammed (as in Arushi case).
Look at this objectively. The most police could’ve done is to stop the party, Which too would’ve been wrong. At this rate, Soon it’d be impossible for you to have a Sangeet ceremony to celebrate your daughter’s wedding!! They having served liquor there has no bearing at all – It is a private premises and it was a party.
Oh BTW, Vajpayee is a known connoisseur of Scotch!! Many in BJP (Mahajan was the biggest) are known for their substance abuse! Jaswant singh even offered opium to his guests in a ceremony in his home!! I am not saying any of them are wrong. It is their life. But, why be hypocritical and deny the same right to others?
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My 2 cents:
No drugs were found, hence this doesn’t qualify as Rave Party
But it is not a private birthday party either-Since entrance fee was charged and liquor was sold, I believe organizers should have taken prior license, even if it is private property. not taking prior license and doing commercial business do constitute violation of law.
I appreciate police swinging into action quickly upon receiving complaint/intel but However only organizers appear to be guilty in this and partygoers could have been let off with a warning
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in a few years time-
There was one Dr. Acharya,
who was righteous For the People
who failed in the eyes OF the People
and got booted out By the People
—
I wouldn’t let my daughter or son attend these parties. would you ? think about it.
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Do we have any clarity on the charges against the ones raving?Is that one of using banned drugs or the usual bunkum about ‘indecency’. Clearly Yeddi is losing even the modicum of goodwill he had with a few of his cyber supporters. Not clear what the aad aadmi’s perspective of it is though. I clearly want to attend one of these parties now.
Somehow connected to this link is Hitchen’s analysis on Swat
http://www.slate.com/id/2213246/?from=rss
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I worry about this simple equation of the police and the RS/RSS/VHP and other goons.
The editorial confuses too many issues in one paragraph to make any coherent sense.
is the difficulty with the methods of the police? Or with the laws? or with the people who were targeted? or the reasons for which they were arrested?
The editorial tries to raise all these issues haphazardly and makes no sense.
But coming back to the “issue” here, which seems to be that the police are becoming the “moral” police.
When did they stop being “moral” police? Are morals only about cultural norms, and not the ways in which we treat people? Is there a separate category of crimes that are not moral wrongs? When the police arrests somebody for drunk driving, is it not a because society disapproves of drunk driving? Isn’t the case the same for murder, theft and so on?
It is a different matter what we consider to be morally right or wrong, but isn’t the principle that whatever we all agree on to be morally wrong, the State, i.e., the police should be the ones to enforce it? And isn’t there a huge problem when the police stop being “moral” police and become … “amoral” police?
I always thought that our problem with RS and its ilk was that they usurped the role of morality enforcement that the police had, and not the fact that they were trying to enforce non-existent moral standards.
Granted, the police probably messed up in this case, granted that maybe the reasons for arrest are not very coherent, and that is a common problem with our police forces everywhere, but please do not peddle this falsehood that policing and morality have nothing to do with each other.
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@Trayambakam Shastri
You seem to use all the buzzwords to good effect…quoting that shastra and this agama…And going by your name you seem to be one of those “hindus belonging to the rariefied strata”
Since you are justifying all those in the name of Hinduism ( BTW you have no business to drag Sangh Parivar and the “goons” into this as Palahalli rightly says- they have no position on this.)
So being a Hindu why dont you send your sons and daughters to these rave parties..and enjoy the secular fart bhang…? How about practicing what you preach??
Or being a true blood Hindu….practice what you preach…next time do a archana at Kajhuraho temple…who is going to stop you?
and the drugs Patanjali mentions is not the one grown by your colleagues in Afghanistan..but the ones prescribed in Ayurveda…
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this is only half of the story. the real issue is the that to conduct parties of this scale, you need to take permission. if what i read is right, the appropriate clearances were not taken. this and perhaps the police were not propitiated. so they got hauled.
as prasad said i doubt if any minister has so much time on his hands that he will decree on individual parties.
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I bet ond ippattO moovattO bisaakidre ivaranna ee thara hiDitirlilla!
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@ Andy , in recent memory the police did warn even Cricketer Sreeshant for creating nuisance.
What about the deaths due to drunker driving ?? Assuming all of them were asked to pack up who would have driven the vehicles.Surely there were no drivers around.
Everyone reacts when affected.
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“Pls note cops can do this anywhere including your and my house tomorrow..thats the worry”
I don’t think I would do anything at my home that would “need me” to cover my face out of shame/fear if paraded out.
Question: If its a non-issue or there was nothing ‘sinister’ going on – why do these self – proclaimed “new generation” have to hide their faces like sissies?? Is it because – they can’t defend what they were doing at the “simply fun filled Rave party” with their family members ? Why cover face & hide – if they haven’t done anything wrong???
Question: Its not Yeddi or BJP. Don’t be too quick to judge. These police uniforms were not hired yesterday – they have been in the force long before BJP came to power. Secondly – Rave parties have been busted in Mumbai, Pune & other cities – and what goes on in their is nothing to be proud of.
Question: If there is money being made by asking these “Ravers or Ravities” to pay to participate in the party – then state would have say in it. Making big money without permission to such endeavor?
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@ Srinidhi posted whatever I had to say
+1 to his comment!
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@ Srinidhi posted whatever I had to say
+1 to his comment!
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One question to all:
Suppose a party like this is happening right next to your home destroying your sleep and comfort…
Unable to bear the noise and disturbance, assume you approach local police. Now what do you expect the police to do?
A. Tell you “sorry we don’t want to do anything- may be they are having a private party- swalpa adjust maDkoLLi…”
or B. take some action if it is proved that party is being held without authorization
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Suraj
“I don’t think I would do anything at my home that would “need me” to cover my face out of shame/fear if paraded out.”
Its not what you “think” you do is wrong… if the situation gets out of hand and Police goons are left unquestioned…then they will drag you for what *they* think is right or wrong!!
“have to hide their faces like sissies??”
Precisely because … people like you will brand anyone with whatever comes to your mind without probing into the matter… If they had held up their heads high..then you would be the first one to start condemning.
But I agree with you on other questions.. I think attributing everything to Yeddi is taking things too far. And it certainly is the organizers responsibility to get clearance beforehand.
All said and done.. I don’t want to see women being paraded like they are the biggest culprits of all crimes… It makes a very sad picture
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>>The rave parties these people target are as a matter of fact closely allied with eastern spiritual mysticism with their trance music and conciousness expanding drugs. >>
This is news to all of us :)
BTW, shastriji, Aushadha is not drug. Oshadha is the sanskrit word for medicinal herbs, extracts from Oshada’s is called Aushadhi/Aushadha. Hope this helps.
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What next? Marriages and other get-togethers which dont comply to each and every by-law written by some bureaucrat in the last century?
How about something real like the public nuisance in the name of religion and politics? That wont happen because (a) that is not a soft target (b) Politicians and palegaras are generally the perpetrators of that one.
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Suraj:
“why do these self – proclaimed “new generation” have to hide their faces like sissies??”
Assume for a moment, just assume that one of your female relatives gets raped one day. She will cover her face in front of the cameras even though she has done nothing ‘wrong’, no?
Don’t make bullshit arguments just for the sake of arguing. And I suggest you look up the definition of ‘rave party’. But I agree with you about the money charging bit. But the organizers and owner(s) need to be hauled over the coals, isn’t it? Why imprison the partygoers? At the end of the day, what is the charge against the party goers??
***
Alok:
“but please do not peddle this falsehood that policing and morality have nothing to do with each other.”
If one considers theft, burglary, murder, etc. as a trangession of ‘morality’ then yes, it is a falsehood that policing and morality have nothing to do with each other. But what most people commonly think of when we say ‘morality’ is girls dancing, girls having beer, youngsters dating, and so on. The police can keep their hands off this, thank you. We are not Saudi Arabia, with a ‘Department for promotion of virtue and prevention of vice’.
A true story which happened recently in Bangalore: An acquaintance of mine was out with his fiance, and was caught by the police at 6:00 in the evening. They began their standard abuse and started threatening to ‘unmask’ them in front of their parents. They refused to believe that the couple was engaged. When the guy persisted and showed them some photos of his engagement on his mobile, the police decided, after a brief consultation amongst themselves, to let the couple go. This is what one generally refers to as ‘Moral Policing by the police’.
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Its clear that the attempt is to equate Western lifestyle with drugs and irresponsibility. Just the way someone could try to equate Indian lifestyle with – corruption, actively communal, bride burning, feudal, racist.
I mean its easy to prove either way, if you have enough influence and power – we will always find enough reasons and followers to help prove eitherway.
It does not have to be. There are better ways to integrate and progress. But the freedom to make one’s mistakes and be only advised by people who love you is very important.
To be told that you have to choose your life in the lines of the state or someone more morally upright than me – is like being sold to another human being. That leaves me with little guilt at doing whatever I do – even if its absolutely wrong.
So, will be the mindset when we move people to the brink so.
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harkol –
” If anyone had drugs in a party, then they have broken the law – let them be punished.”
And/or
“Jaswant singh even offered opium to his guests in a ceremony in his home!! I am not saying any of them are wrong.”
– Seems to me that the biggest issue is, “disturbance of a lifestyle”.
Moreover, this was an “event”, wherein unlicensed liquor was SOLD and consumed. The party was also advertised.
Please read – http://www.karnataka.gov.in/dpal/pdf_files/EXCISE%20Act-new-39.pdf
The para pertains to consuming unlicensed alcohol.
“Whoever, being the owner or incharge of management or control of any public place allows consumption of liquor or whoever consumes liquor in any public place in which consumption of liquor is not permitted under a licence granted by the Excise Commissioner or the Deputy Commissioner, in contravention of the provisions of section 15A, shall on conviction be punished with fine which shall not be less than rupees two hundred but which may extend to 2[five thousand rupees.]”
Like another commenter (narco parikshe) correctly mentioned, rave parties have been busted in many other places and many other states.
The police have a fine case. The only thing that will impede prosecution is “Liberal uproar!”
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We are living a civilized society. Where are those so-called rationalists and intellectuals? Where are the so-called educated people? Whatever may be the crime they might have committed this is not the way to treat them. Our policing, prisons should change their working systems. When goons and murderers are arrested they are escorted and left without any trace of the news being made public. A few years ago there was a case of judicial officials involved in a case of almost similar nature and an enquiry was held and everything ended happily. The Roost Incident of Mysore.
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Looks like the police are wearing real Cheddis below their pants.
This couplet came to my mind, after this episode.
“Paan me supaari hi toh peppermint kyah karega?
tere mere pyaar hi toh Government kyah karega?”
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Srinidhi Hande:
The answer to your question is a modified form of ‘option B’:
“take some action even if it is NOT proved that party is being held without authorization”
Because it is a public nuisance in a residential area. The point I, and many others are making is the police arresting and parading all the party goers as though they had comitted a crime. And letting the person who actually needs to be booked under the ‘excise act’, the owner, off the hook.
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Let us not twist facts just to bash Yeddy, BJP.
Facts are:
1. Entrance fee was charged for this “innocent birthday party”
2. Liquor was SOLD in this innocent “birthday party”
3. Party goers fully drunk went to a nearby resort and made a scene when they were denied rooms at 2AM.
4. Next morning if these drunk party goers had mowed down bunch of people sleeping on footpath same people will be shouting from rooftops that “Where are the cops when you need them” “Cops allow illegal rave parties”
It is completely irrelevant if party is being held in some private house or resort. As long as they are SELLING those services they ought to get relevant permission by paying relevant fees.
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@Vinay
Keep your rag on dude… I have read enough of your posts to know that you are not one of those froth-in-the-mouth-madmen who post here often. So read this carefully.
As Palahalli has pointed out, there seems to be have been good reason for the police to take action in this case, and on this occasion, I think the media is being unfair when it goes “ooh-look-so-many-middle-class-people-are-being-inconvenienced-ergo-the-police-are-running-wild”.
The pary-goers have not been “imprisoned” since that is something that is usually done after a trial. They have been taken into custody pending trial, something that happens to a lot of people who are suspected of having a hand in some sort of a crime. Somehow, i do not see the same middle class rage when other people we have already pre-judged as criminals get taken into custody. Is it that the middle class is incapable of breaking the law? Or just because someone in the middle class is doing it, it cannot be illegal? or are we just plain above the law?
You have just proved my point about “moral policing”. We have to come up with some word to denote the type you are referring to, that does not make it seem that crimes and morals have nothing to do with each other.
For your example, i can give you one more about a constable getting beaten up for daring to stop a car for obvious drunk driving. So what does each of our examples prove? Nothing.
The problems with our police forces are deep and systemic, and it is not going to get any better if we keep equating them with “goons” and thugs.
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Ironically, in India, the most liberal people, who drink well and often make merry & dance with freedom are left inside the Armed forces. Maybe we should change that?
Or as usual this land of cowards will only focus on soft targets?
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This busting is all wrong! We should protest only when these people accidentally run their SUVs/Sedans over parasitic street-hawkers or jobless old thathas who want the liberty to walk during unearthly hours in the morning!!!!
How dare the villagers dream peaceful lives when they live so close to the highway and Bengaluru!?
If these poor junta lose their jobs because of their “criminal record”, where would you rehabilitate these (half/un)skilled misfits?
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A sample of what happens in these Rave parties – & what it looks like in case of a situation gone uncontrolled
http://www.desihotmasala.com/2008/11/patiala-rave-party-pictures-jeevan.html
Vinay – your line of thinking is not only illogical but plain stupid. Did these girls get “raped” or did they do something ,they are ashamed of – so they don’t want to be identified?? Yes – rape victims covering their face for hiding identity is a very specific case – which doesn’t even apply in this case. If this a “jolly fun party” – why the issue of hiding identity?
Sandesh – I am sure there are pictures of guys being paraded as well. However – given the sensationalism of our media, couldn’t have seen it coming any other way.
Do you see the police “goon” harassing the girls? Lets not judge them indiscriminately – as you don’t want to judge the Ravites.
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All those who are opposing act of police should unite, agitate for change of appropriate sections of laws in Karnataka and elsewhere in India that will legalise drinking.
Else, all becomes LOONEY TUNES of psuedos who have to grind their known business of bashing you know who.
===================
Shahtry>>It is clear the RSS morons have got the idea of Hindutva from Wahhabi Islam/Taliban or as many suggest the Nazis.
hehe….There is a verdict on Hindutva by Supreme Court. Also, a book written by same name by Savarkar.
READ FROM THE ORIGINAL SOURCE- not pamplets.
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hmm, how will police find whether this was a rave party or not without doing tests on the participants? ok. nothing was seized. but if the police were tipped off, they shud anyway test these people for drugs. no? whats wrong if these people were dragged to a clinic or a police station? innocents will walk free and they did.
and why is that rich people getting caught or getting slapped always gets top billing at churumuri? and boy rave parties stand for liberal values these days, huh?
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The Key word in the impugned Act is ” Public Place”. Will a private farm house qualify as a Public Place ?
One can argue it was a commercial event and not a private birthday party. To be fair to the authorities this distinction will support their action. But the culprit with many of these apparent abuse of power is the continuance of many archaic laws , which empower them. What one cannot understand is why should one need a License to use in private events when liquor is freely sold ? Even if one is reselling it, thus depriving the exchequer of VAT, then it is seller who needs to be booked for the offense and not the buyer.
As for use of Loud speaker after 10 PM ( is it 12 midnight ? ), then the law should equally apply to all such use in religious places also whether it is a suprabhata or azaan .
There is something wrong with our democratic set up, which does not give scope/ forum for healthy public debate issues. A system which treats its citizen as criminals for all sundry offenses without a warning /pardoning mechanism is no democracy at all. Power to arrest and humiliate a citizen for juvenile acts is a violation of human rights and principle of Natural justice. It is time our laws are amended .
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The point of the editorial (and commenters) should have been the monstrosities called the “excise act” and other laws preaching morality, that enable the gubermint to invade individual privacy. Instead it is as usual BJP, RSS, Sangh parivar, talibanisation etc etc…
PS: If only the original taliban had trademarked ‘talibanisation’, they could have minted money now :(
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Alok has a great comment. This editorial does confuse a number of different issues and really has no coherence.
First of all, has the DH nothing better to write about than the police busting a party? While, in many circumstances, this ‘moral policing’ may be condemnable – and depending on whether this was a true Rave or just a regular party this policing may too have been condemnable, do we not as a society have much graver issues to address? Certainly, the police in India have far too much power over late-night revelers, but lets remember that these revelers are relatively well-off in society. Our gaze would be better directed at the poor and less well-off.
As for the actual issue at hand, it is my opinion that if no neighbours were disturbed, and all the participants were there voluntarily and of their own accord, then there was absolutely no harm done to wider society and it is a private matter. Indeed, one man’s liberty ends at his neighbour’s nose, but if his neighbour was untouched, they should have the liberty to act as they like in private.
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We want all the benefits of globalisation/Americanisation and at the same time be the kind of Indian that Mohandas Gandhi wanted us to be?
This is a culure war. The women walking with covered faces are soldiers. They will be let off with mild slap on the wrists and a long lecture by an undistinguished hack of a besotted judiciary, and there is an end of it. And then more of the same.
We have British colonialism and American imperialism to thank for our culturally schizoid selves.
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The police did not parade the Young offenders.
The media got wind of the arrest and covered the event while the police were in the process of taking the samples and producing them before the court.
The times of India was selling Editorial spaces , now they along with NDTV and CNN IBN carry biased reports with a eye on the advertisement revenue.If some of these revellers had caused a accidet by drunker driving the same useless anchors would have blamed the police for not taking action.
Just watch the coverage of the Medical Student , with a view on TRP they play on sympathy.
Salman Khan , Karthik Somaiah , Monica Bedi and Sanjau Dutt are Heros if one were to follow the media coverage.
It may not be a fashion parade but sure was a
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Now, drinking over the limits in an unlicensed party @ 2AM is good. Sipping Bislery water in sexy manner is sin, as Some people in raichur walk miles for drinking water!
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Alok:
“The problems with our police forces are deep and systemic, and it is not going to get any better if we keep equating them with “goons” and thugs.”
I guess I have to agree with this. The problem is with the police forces, and I guess thats what we need to focus on.
Yes, the middle class rage is somehow more in these kinds of cases, and I feel this is because the media is ‘middle-class centric’ if I can put it that way.. A lot of the middle class identify with party-goer types like these, hence the outrage.
By the way, take look at my previous post again. The personal attack I made was directed at Suraj. During comment moderation, my text somehow got messed up and came at the incorrect place. It is at the right place now.
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Suprabhata after 2200 hrs a? How is that possible?
The police are doing their job within today’s legal framework. If we speak hypothetically we can discuss legalizing drugs also. Why not? Anything is possible if we let Liberals run havoc.
But all this thu thu against police is hogwash and unfair.
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Cool Dude,
Nice observation.
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Suprabhata at 4 or 5 AM is still after midnight and before day break. The revelers were arrested in the wee hours not at midnight !
Any way during shivaratri, our Honorable Minster for Muzrai, was reportedly personally in attention at the event sponsored by him and music and crackers went on till early morning.
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Palahalli:
Thanks for the URL.
However, The term “public place”means any street, alley, park, public building, any place of business or assembly open to or frequented by the public, and any other place which is open to the public view, or to which the public has unhindered, unrestricted access. It also includes areas that are accessible by public by paying a fees, as long as there is an open invite (like carnivals, exhibitions etc).
Any party in a private premises to which access is strictly by private invite only doesn’t fall into the definition of public place.
As for selling liquor – it isn’t as straight forward as it’d appear.
I have seen quite a few private parties which ask people to BYOB. And folks pool in the money to avoid the trouble of everyone bringing it in. Taking your interpretation of this law, they can all be arrested, but that’s absurd. There was no harm done.
The place was a private premises and some enterprising person thought of having a party and asked people to pool in the money for the fun. If he does it regularly, then that can be called business, if not it is just organizing a party and everyone going DUTCH. Police will have no role to play in a one of event!!
Now, lets take the excise law as per your interpretation, even then it doesn’t give police the right to arrest them and keep them in jail and wait for a magistrate provided bail!! because the offense is punishable only by a fine, they can just release them after levying a fine at the most!! Why keep them in Jail for two days?
We are a free country. If we let police do this, then tomorrow they’ll demand to be present in your bedroom to see if you are a homosexual or not!! Afterall Homosexuality is illegal in India too!!
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Palahalli:
While we are on the subject of law, can you also tell me which law permits the POLICE (not excise officials) to raid a private premises without a warrant??
Under what law can the police barge into a private premise without a warrant (like the Bangalore police did on Dell premise in domlur) – to inspect if there is a illegal activity going on??
Just because someone is entrusted with coercive power, if we don’t leash their powers they’ll turn on us tomorrow. It is very important to make sure their powers are used only with atmost caution, otherwise we’ll go the Pakistan way, where the Army owns a country.
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harkol –
Private party?
SMS circulated among the partygoers –
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Mar92009/scroll20090309122954.asp?section=frontpagenews
“Kingfisher@EBIZz presents the after hours party 2night with DJ Collin, Vishnu, Roshan and MC Tommy @ Mysore Rd. Lets party till the sun comes up. Info 9880538460 ADDY.”
******
Source – http://www.karnataka.gov.in/dpal/pdf_files/EXCISE%20Act-new-39.pdf
On Police Authority;
“Presently, inspection and scrutiny of records maintained by a distillery or a brewery is the responsibility of the Excise Department. This responsibility is discharged primarily by officers posted at the distillery or brewery and through special inspections. However, more than the inspection and scrutiny of records mandated by the Karnataka Excise Act, 1965, it is necessary to form an opinion on the output produced by the manufacturer vis-à-vis the inputs consumed. The essential feature of such an inspection/audit is to correlate the input and output. This is a specialised function for which expert help is necessary. A similar requirement is mandated under section 14AA of the Central Excise Act, 1944. Section 51 of the Karnataka Excise Act, 1965 empowers Excise Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner, Excise Officer and ***Police Officers*** to enter and inspect places of manufacture and sale. In order to empower the proposed third party similarly, it is necessary to amend the Karnataka Excise Act, 1965.”
**********
***Power to search without warrant.***- Whenever the Excise Commissioner or a Deputy Commissioner or any police officer not below the rank of an officer in charge of a police station or any Excise Officer not below such rank as may be prescribed, has reason to belive that an offence under section 32, section 33, section 34, section 36 or section 37 has been, is being, or is likely to be, committed, and that a search warrant cannot be obtained without affording the offender an opportunity of escape or of concealing evidence of the offence, he may, after recording the grounds of his belief,-
(a) at any time by day or by night enter and search any place and seize anything found therein which he has reason to belive to be liable to confiscation under this Act; and
(b) detain and search and, if he thinks proper, arrest any person found in such place whom he has reason to belive to be guilty of such offence as aforesaid.
**************
Arrest without warrant;
“***Power to arrest without warrant***, to seize articles liable for confiscation and to make searches.- (1) Any officer of the State Government 1[employed in the Excise Department, or any officer of the Police or Revenue Department empowered by the State Government in this behalf]1, subject to such restrictions as may be prescribed, and 2[x x x]2 may,-
(a) arrest without warrent any person 1[for]1 an offence punishable under section 32, section 33, section34, section 36 or section 37;”
************
Penlaty for “allowing” premises to be mis-used;
“***Penalty for allowing premises***, etc, to be used for the purpose of committing an offence under this Act.- Whoever, being the owner or occupier or having the use or care or management or control, of any place, room, enclosure, space, vessel, vehicle , or place knowingly permits it to be used for the purpose of commission by any other person of an offence punishable under sections 32, 33, 34, 36 and 37 shall, on conviction, be punished as if he has committed the offences punishable under the respective sections.]”
– Please note that it does not specify “public” or “private”. So, premises is/can be, any premises.
Also, an arrest (thereupon – bail or custody) is prior to “fining” and/or “jail term” upon conviction.
Hope you’re doubts have been clarified.
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>>>”the citizens have the right to drink, part and dance as per their wish in their own private parties. ”
BUT AT WHAT COST ??????????????????
I think Mr.Acharya should point by point justify why the Police arrested the paty-goers..What are the lessons a citizen could learn from this episode? The way the whole incident is picturised as anti-liberal tirade from the right is unfortunate.
Accidents on Mysore road and other high speed roads because of drunken driving is a very valid issue. And whoever responsible for it even remotely,have to be highlighted for so many lives are at stake. Why should so many innocent travellers/pedestrians continue to lose their lives on the road because of drunken driving? And dont these rave parties serve as stepping stones to future drug-addicts and perverts?
Yes..Those who were caught were pretty unlucky as they did nt do anything heinous to deserve such a long ordeal, but all said and done rave parties of such magnitude needs to be discouraged and this move from the police need not be admonished this much by the media..
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If you’ve read newspaper, you’d surely know the reason. People nearby were irritated by the loud volume of music and weren’t able to sleep. I dunno whether they’d taken a license for this but do you keep quite if you’re troubled with sleep by some loud music?
I consider this post as well as the comments supporting it to be junk.
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For a country where the elite commando force arrives at the place of a major terrorist attack after 12 hours, the conspiracy theorists here claim that RSS/BJP forces, penetrated the Ramanagara police force with RSS/BJP idealogues and made the arrest in 6 hours !!
Wow!!
For whatever it is worth, in my company which used to serve liquor for parties (and still does for very very select parties), refuses permission for DUTCH liquor parties, because , this then is SELLING, and not SERVING and that violates the law (as I understand).
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PTL,
Why classify with big words? Our so called culture wars dont have any ground rules or standards. It is as though no social contract exists among people.
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@ Pallahalli
Though i dont quite agree to your line of thinking on this topic…pls accept my congratulations for doing a through research and giving a comprehensive response. That actually does throw lot of light on lot of sub topic related to the post.
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…And PTL,
How do you say that Gandhi wanted us to be something opposed to British colonialism. AFAIK Gandhi’s thoughts and actions were more influenced by Thoreau, Rosseau and Tolstoy ideas than anyone else. Even if he drew inspiration from Indian ideas and acted in one way, they were only from the lens of his British education and way of thinking.
Just the way all of us on this forum are using English and a western technology to discuss and debate our (un)original ideas. We have colonialism and imperialism to thank for the fact that Churumuri exists.
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and what about thoreau and tolstoy. they were isolated fountains of seminal wisdom? people draw from all sorts of wells and have all sorts of influences. the only question is how do they use their influences.
colonialism and imperialism gave us english that does not take away from the fact that millions were slaughtered to hoist their commerce and several other millions were slaughtered to further their geo-politics. when they imposed english on us, even they didnot have any idea that english would be so big. their intent was purely colonial.
in anycase, they left english in a million different places. how many where able to leverage that? english is not the final push that set the indian ball rolling. india had already had civilizational impetus(cultural, economic, demographic ….) with which it could use that extra push to go in the direction it was already going. pakistan and bangladesh also were bequeathed the colonial and english heritage what have they used it for? not just english, every single idea – including the indian version of practiced secularism – ganga-jamni only survives in india. why?
because the sindhu and the brahmaputra draw have been cut off from the wells from which they draw sustenance.
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Thanks Andy :)
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TS,
“and what about thoreau and tolstoy. they were isolated fountains of seminal wisdom? ”
Why this question? In the first chapter of Thoreau’s Walden he takes an example of hindus who have renounced everything and what they do in order to achieve it while contemplating on something. Nobody lives or thinks in isolation and we cant deny that.
Millions were slaughtered before the British. Millions were in slavery and poverty before too. There was no golden age which the British destroyed. And if people like James Princep of the Raj had not deciphered the Brahmi script and brought story of Ashoka and the Mauryas – the golden ages of yore would be more mythology and less history. Millions got their emancipation (or think they did) due to ideas from the West and also as a result of uniting to fight the British. On the other hand there may have been millions to whom bad things which happened due to British colonialism.
In any case, I reiterate Gandhi’s thought process were probably as influenced by his Western (colonial) education, as by anything he learned from his Indian heritage. His idea of civil disobedience would probably never have germinated if he hadn’t been influenced by Thoreau or Tolstoy or he hadn’t crossed the seven seas and experienced a Western education and ways of thinking.
And TS if I may ask you, where and what did you study? Where do you contemplate/practise now (I assume you are working or studying)?
I do not ask this in spite, you and PTL seem to write objectively, so this is just for me to understand a little better about what you have written.
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bomma, the only ground rules and standards in “culture wars” will be the guiding principle/s of contesting cultures. In our country, they might roughly amount to;
1. Islamic culture
2. Hinduism/Hindutva
3. Secular-Liberalism aka Multi-Culturalism
4. Dalit assertion – Caste-wise assertion
In most if not all, the 1st and 3rd will align against the 2nd. The 2nd is constant as “enemy” for the other two, separately or together.
In the case of Dalit assertion, it has taken many forms and may be aligned with first three categories. Its fascinating too see an attract-repel kind of relationship here. Mayawati too takes the route of alignment with Brahmins/Upper castes.
bomma is correct in his short-list of Gandhi’s inspirations. But were they “colonial”? Were they also the inspiration for the British Raj?
In my opinion, Gandhi’s non-violence was also non-Hindu in essence.
Aurobindo actually says that Gandhi’s non-violence is more Christian than Hindu. In Hinduism, non-violence is never a definitive and good-for-all-seasons, principle. Never dogmatic. I also doubt if there is a Hindu version of “turning the other cheek”.
As far as English education and English and benefits accruing from them are concerned this is an excellent resource to gauge indigenous status and corresponding status of education in England, btw, whose title is inspired from Gandhi’s own description of India’s traditional method of education. Please click on The Beautiful Tree
http://www.samanvaya.com/dharampal/
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Palahalli
It was a private place. it wasn’t a public place. And it was not a restaurant or a bar or a resort. It certainly did not fall in the ‘commercial’ category.
So all your huge work, sending boring clauses after clauses, is sheer waste of blog space.
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Simple – It was a private place which allowed commercial activities. That’s illegal, isn’t it?
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Simple,
The conclusion of “boring clauses after clauses” was that the police can enter and search any place.
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ANYONE will sufficient muscle power can enter and search any place. And in India provided you have the guts, there is nothing anyone can do about it. Links to police, organized goons, underworld helps. We are all going the way of Bihar.
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One cannot throw flesh around, without attracting the carnivores. Such free play and orgies are never without their price. People who participated, either as organisers or a suckers, knew the risks they ran. Otherwise, they woudl not have choosen an out of the way venue. Why shed tears for them?
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Palahalli,
Thanks for all the relevant legal points. I didn’t know we are such a police state that the law empowers the police to go into anyones house and arrest anyone on mere suspicion.
God help us. We have a long way to go in being truly free.
***
Simple,
I don’t think Palahalli’s posting clauses after clauses is boring at all!! It is amazing that such laws exist!
Wonder why it was never challenged as it gives undue coercive power to the police.
But, looking at the facts, I suppose there is a ground for Police to act, as per the relevant laws. I think they should use these laws in case of gross abuse and should only use that against people who meant harm. But, then when was the last time we knew Indian Police to be considerate, compassionate and liberal??
The Law is an ass and who ever wrote a law that permits such a gross violation of individual liberty shouldn’t be a law maker! :-(
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harkol,
Writing a law is one thing, what makes the law stick is the willingness of people to follow the law for a greater good. And if there is no concept of social justice, what use is a written law? If the people are unwilling to enter into social contracts with each other and respect them under most circumstances, the government has to be the leviathan which enforces each and every aspect of public and private life of people.
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Random quotation time :)
From Rousseau’s The Social Contract (which many claim influenced the people behind the French and American revolutions and also led the first written constitutions):
”
THE passage from the state of nature to the civil state produces a very remarkable change in man, by substituting justice for instinct in his conduct, and giving his actions the morality they had formerly lacked. Then only, when the voice of duty takes the place of physical impulses and right of appetite, does man, who so far had considered only himself, find that he is forced to act on different principles, and to consult his reason before listening to his inclinations. Although, in this state, he deprives himself of some advantages which he got from nature, he gains in return others so great, his faculties are so stimulated and developed, his ideas so extended, his feelings so ennobled, and his whole soul so uplifted, that, did not the abuses of this new condition often degrade him below that which he left, he would be bound to bless continually the happy moment which took him from it for ever, and, instead of a stupid and unimaginative animal, made him an intelligent being and a man.
Let us draw up the whole account in terms easily commensurable. What man loses by the social contract is his natural liberty and an unlimited right to everything he tries to get and succeeds in getting; what he gains is civil liberty and the proprietorship of all he possesses. If we are to avoid mistake in weighing one against the other, we must clearly distinguish natural liberty, which is bounded only by the strength of the individual, from civil liberty, which is limited by the general will; and possession, which is merely the effect of force or the right of the first occupier, from property, which can be founded only on a positive title.
We might, over and above all this, add, to what man acquires in the civil state, moral liberty, which alone makes him truly master of himself; for the mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescribe to ourselves is liberty. But I have already said too much on this head, and the philosophical meaning of the word liberty does not now concern us.
“
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The law is not bad. Please read the following;
“46. Penalty on Excise Officer making vexatious search, seizure detention or arrest.- Any Excise Officer or other person who vexatiously and without reasonable ground for suspicion,-
(a) enters or searches or causes to be entered or searched any closed place under colour of exercising any power conferred by this Act, or
(b) seizes the moveable property of any person on the pretext of seizing or searching for any article liable to confiscation under this Act, or
(c) searches, detains or arrests any person, or
(d) in any other way exceeds his lawful powers under this Act,
shall, on conviction, be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to six months or with fine which may extend to five hundred rupees, or with both.”
**************
Some things to ponder;
1. Are citizens aware of these laws/rules?
2. I think enforcement agencies must publicize these rules after the first incidence. They must be “postered” in bars and pubs and even offices.
Some commenters have been of the view that the police should have let party animals go after a warning.
How can drunken folks be allowed to drive?
Is it not true that in many countries, the police actually lock-up drunk drivers till such time as they are produced before a judge and fined?
Coming to bomma’s social contract, I agree that there has been severe breakdown. I will say that Liberal values are to blame.
We had a celebrity jailed in a foreign cell on charges of possession of drugs. Our Govt and media/fellow celebrities moved heaven and earth to get this man back and free. He is back in business and is as popular as ever without a stain on his reputation, and without having been formally pronounced not-guilty. We have all tolerated this.
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Nothing liberal or conservative about a disregard of social contract among people. People do not respect the constitution or are unaware of it. Whether it is Prasad Bidappa or Pramod Muthalik. Respect for the idea of India as a nation is much less than adherence to religion, caste or lifestyle.
Tolerance for others rights is as much as a part of a social contract as giving up our complete freedom for the gain of living in a civil society.
A thought is a smaller country say Karnataka or even South India may be a better idea than the whole nation of India as it is now. Social contracts would be easier to reconcile. We would have to give up less and gain more. The extreme tolerance required and mixing (clash?) of various languages, cultures and tribes which is now happening in India leading to mediocrity being accepted as the norm could probably be avoided. For the good of everyone involved? Wonder if these thoughts went through Ambedkar’s mind when he was drafting stuff.
From the preamble (yet again on this forum) – including the parts Indira Gandhi added:
WE, THE PEOPLE OF INDIA, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a SOVEREIGN SOCIALIST SECULAR DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC and to secure to all its citizens:
JUSTICE, social, economic and political;
LIBERTY of thought, expression, belief, faith and worship;
EQUALITY of status and of opportunity;
and to promote among them all
FRATERNITY assuring the dignity of the individual and the unity and integrity of the Nation;
IN OUR CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY this twenty-sixth day of November, 1949, do HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.
***
Prashanth Bhat,
If you are reading. These longish posts are accidents. They are still to practise some writing and meant to boost my ego. So dont judge me by them.
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bomma – Muthalik himself is a product of the Liberal media. Let’s not deny the obvious.
He did not call the Conservative media to film his escapades. Nor has he any respect amongst the Hindu Right.
In my opinion, talk of the “idea of India” by its proponents sounds hollow and shallow.
The first thing these proponents do, be it Khilnani or Sen is to abuse native cultural linkages to India as obscurantist & reactionary and then embrace some far out “idea” that none in this country can connect with.
This is the same reason why any Hindu who has not heard of the Constitution or this fanciful “idea of India”; but lives his religious life is far more tolerant AND respectful of diversity around him. Be they Syrian Christians, Jews, Muslim traders, Tibetan exiles or (n) number of foreign tribes that tried to conquer our land much before any of these recent peoples came. This has been the rule with the Hindu rather than the exception.
The exception enters when reciprocity is turned on its head by minorities.
Ambedkar did not draft “stuff”. He presided over as Chairman of the Constitution Drafting Committee that was composed of a large number of luminaries, appointed by the Constituent Assembly. Each clause was debated. Moreover, Ambedkar had very clear and different ideas about formation of States. But, that’s another discussion.
Liberalism demands that Hindus forget self and give all to/for minorities. Indira Gandhi’s 42nd amendment was the crowning glory of Secular-Liberalism.
The talk of secession is appealing to some, but will not be any better in results. Liberals will speak of the “idea of Karnataka” next :)
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Palahalli,
Most points you put forward do make sense, but I still don’t think a person who responds to an SMS and goes for a party to have good time commits a crime.
I am a teetotaler and can’t dance if my life was on the line and never attend any parties. But, I know many who enjoy their drinks and want to dance till they drop.
In most cases (except a few irresponsible individuals I know), they all ensure they get a drop or have someone remains sober to drive them back.
I wonder how many of the people arrested were actually drunk. How can police use any law as a blunt weapon to bludgeon everyone to make a larger point?
If they were driving drunk, I totally support the harshest possible punishment for them. But, arrest someone for just having some good time??
Is it anyone’s case that these are criminals? Is it anyone’s case that the ladies who went to a pub are Immoral? Is it anyone’s case that just because someone likes to dance & party he is spoiling our culture?
Someone like Bidappa gets away with drugs, but someone who may not even have had a drink gets to be in Jail?
Something isn’t right here.
Anyway, thanks for detailed answers. It was illuminating.
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harkol,
The point is that the police were enforcing the law. Now, we learn that there was another “rave” going on close by.
I know many folks have disputed the fact that this busted party fell in the “rave” category, but we don’t know that yet. Apparently, the defining cut-off is drugs. Here, the police have maintained that drugs were burnt.
If what you seem to want is implemented, then the police would be making subjective arrests at the scene of “crime”. Imagine the kind of ruckus that will attract. Charges of partiality and “big-cats” being let off flying thick and fast. Already there is talk of the owner of this place escaping “arrest”. He’s lost his job btw.
So, I just feel that its enough that the police enforced the law and the rest is upto the judicial system.
This is not at all about wanting to drink and dance freely. I for one am not opposed to that at all.
Thanks for appreciating the effort but all I did was re-arrange clauses off the website :)
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bomma,
main point:
thoreau et all were all practitioners of a theory. gandhi was a practicing experimentalist/engineer, who actually put these theories to work. vast difference.
these ideas are essentially indic. atleast they are not-alien to the indic meme and experience. beyond caste and ‘obscurantism’ we take certain rational and elevated ideas pretty seriously. doubt, neti neti neti, rhetoric, epistemology, etc are all native to india – either consciously or subconciously.
the whole point is that gandhi’s ideas actually found traction in india. not just amongst the intellectual elites, but amongst the masses too. the blacks in america used it and so did some afghanistanis(note both groups are not western). but nothing to the scale in india why? why did all this work in india? if it were such a western idea, why did it not work ireland? will it ever work in palestian – which ultimately has the same western basis? if you read the rhetoric of islamist apologists they will tell you all sorts of stories about jihad -about how gandhian in ideal it is. but not one, one, amongst them practices that. jihad in islamic world means only one thing. do you see the difference between people who embody an idea and those who theorize it? note i said nothing about religion. there were all sorts of people who took to gandhi. but these were indians still rooted in indic ideas. there is this indic meme that runs from days of yagnavalkya to bulleh shah – to ramana. naan yaaru – that doubt, that curiosity. you can check out, but for all the fights over burial rights, what is the demografics of those who still patronize sai baba of shirdi? as pala asks why is the burden of indic ideas only upon one group of indians and why are they so despised – despite actually living up to the noblest of human ideas? instead those who pay lip service to it are the darlings of nehruvian secularism.
3. history.
thats ok. they gave us history – a futile attempt at reducing what is essentially subjective, vague and circumstantial in construction, to science. i prefer my puranas and folk tales – essence and saara of peoples’ experience. on the other hand, we gave them linguistics – completely rational, impersonal, and mathematical in construction. one is real science other is not. and now we believe rationality is alien to us and is denige of the colonialists. yen maaye!!
4. golden age
there may never have been a golden age. i dont contest that. but there never has been a period when indic rulers terrorized local populations. indic types incessantly fought amongst themselves. but as the story goes, a farmer could continue his tilling even as bantas slashed each other’s throats in the neighboring field. there have been many invaders of india. but it is only one-book-walah bigots who brought a level of barbarism hitherto unknown in india. can you tell me how mosques marathas and even sikhs broke down in retaliation and how many common folk they massacred?
5.
not that it matters. i spent my formative years at madhva krupa, mysore. conducted shakhas, (i was a shaka pramukh for a while) and attended summer camps. i dunno what they do they do now, but in all my years, i never heard one speech on issues that are discussed here. naive idiots yes, but castiest conspirators, i dunno about that. on the other hand they seemed pretty worried about caste and devised elaborate schemes to eliminate it. one was entering kitchens of members’ families. it was ok for a while until it got intrusive. then elder womenfolk in my house couldn’t stand the rss types of sundry castes barging into their kitchen on a regular basis. that was sort of the last straw.
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I dont understand why everyone is blaming police and questioning that how the police can parade h’ble guests of a birthday party (in a birthday suit?). It is not the police who have paraded it is the media who have sensed that they are going to have a sensational news and relayed the same in their bloody channels. In case police wanted to prevent the media from shooting this episode then the same media would have made one more big issue out it and one more article in churumuri about safegaurding the rights of the media.
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Hi
i strongly appreciate the thing that is done by our karnataka police.
They are protecting the indian culture.
So people who r speaking against the police actoin are dirctly supporting the drug addicts, and also they might also send their childrens to such rev parties…….
And Yes hindu people will strongly against to the rev parties and other modern culture… Coz we hindus are from very good cultural back ground… Not like others to support to such activities
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Didn’t know Raksana Vedike had accepted Islam. So now they are Muftis?
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