Pratap Bhanu Mehta, president of the Center for Policy Research, in The Indian Express:
“Try as much as it can, the BJP struggles to rise above a discourse of victimhood, one that has increasingly less resonance….
“Most of those who pillory the Congress do so with the sense that the Congress does not live up to its own best ideals. They attack the Congress in the name of an idea of what the Congress should be. It is the ideal of the Congress that makes its realities look sordid. But the same cannot be said of the BJP.
“The dominant idea that holds it together is not an affirmative one; it is a negative one, powered largely by a politics of resentment. It has no high ideals, only grudges to nurse….
“Its biggest ideological asset is to convert strength into weakness. Its entire politics was constructed around the majority as a helpless victim, unable to stand up for itself. In a way, this demeaned most Hindus even more than it demeaned the BJP’s opponents. But its problem is that without that “hurt” factor nothing makes it distinctive.
“The very longevity of the Congress is a sign that there is something about it that is worth salvaging. But all that remains of the BJP is a long sulk, one that will haunt it even when it is in power.”
Read the full article: The politics of hurt
Victims of Hindustan.
Hindus were wronged for centuries.
Hindu Girls are “decived” by Muslims/Christian.
Muslims get all the Money from Govt and 99% Hindus are the one working tirelessly in Govt jobs for this!
3000 Mosques are infact temples.
Taj Mahal was actually tejo mahalaya…yes dedicated to shiva, vishnu what ever yyou decide.
Lal qila was actually……. something i don’t recall.
Tirupati money is used to fund Wakf… sounds far fetched, don’t worry no one will go investigating.
What else??
Lal chand kishan chand advani is wronged by Karachi Muslims so he will take revenge on Indian Muslims, starting with Gujrat.
Is he making up to the congress/UPA for rebelling against its stance in matters of OBC reservation etc. ? ;-)
Of Course, BJP should be kicked for making all these trivialities, poll issues.
Why should not they(BJP & Congress) debate the issues specified in the manifestos!?
I believe we badly need an alternative party in the centre(ideologically) to balance the right & left of centre and the extremes.
@khan,
It is your karma that you are born in a religion which to date debate whether throwing stone is halal or haram.
Hindu fortunately have no such dilema.
Khan:
Your sarcastic exaggerations are well noted. But, there is a huge amount of truth in quite a few of the things you said above. Here are truth and Myths:
1. Hindu’s were indeed pressured by Muslim Invaders for centuries. It is a historical fact.
2. Govt. has no role to play in a secular country in people’s religious affairs, but Indian framework insists on doing it. So, it nationalizes the income of majority of temples, and subsidizes Muslim pilgrimages.
3. There are many (hundreds if not thousands) of Temples that were destroyed and mosques built on them. I have seen a few myself. I have seen many Hindu statues destroyed by Muslim kings. And most of these are matter of undisputed Historic records.
4. Tejo Mahalaya – a myth. Only idiots claim that, BJP never did.
5. Thirupati is managed by a trust. However, that trust is controled by the State govt. TTD has above Rs.3000cr revenues, but majority of it is diverted to state coffers. It is also true that all states fund repairation of mosques and in 2006 AP govt. funded above 7cr for renovating some mosques in Thirupati itself!! So, it isn’t an exaggeration to say, Hindu devotees fund some of these mosques – unintended.
6. LK Advani, if he becomes a PM, can’t do anything to Indian Muslims, for he will be controlled by his own coalition parteners will guard against it. It is more likely that BJP & Allies will stay silent when Hindu’s are attacked for not wearing the right dresses!!
It is certainly true that BJP exploits the Hindu victim hood. It claims to be a victim and claims hindu’s have been victims. Post-independence it isn’t entirely accurate. Hindu’s haven’t been victims though things could be far better if State stayed out of their religious affairs.
But, then BJP can rightly say that Congress started it… :-(
N R Narayana Murthy endorses the ‘compassionate capitalism’ of Dr. Manmohan Singh.
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20090420&fname=Book+Extract&sid=2
The same PBN used strong words against the current govt. All of that missed this blogger’s radar.
““The very longevity of the Congress is a sign that there is something about it that is worth salvaging. ”
Is this “something” so mystical? It is readily answered. Upto independence, freedom struggle itself was the raison d’etre for congress’ existence. Thereafter, vote-getting capacity of Nehru and Indira Gandhi did the work. During Indira Gandhi’s tenure, villagers at least in the South firmly believed that Indira Gandhi was the grand daughter of Mahatma Gandhi!
Thereafter, it is only the Gandhi magic which is holding congress together. After Rajiv Gandhi’s assasination, all congressmen trooped to Sonia Sphinx Gandhi, fell at her feet to beseech her to stay on. The Gandhi surname, though counterfeit one, has worked.
Now, take away this pseudo Gandhi family from congress and see where it stands (or falls)!
In any case, tolerating criticism from opposition has never been one of cultural points of congress. Pandit Nehru was intolerant of his critiques and strongly condemned his opponents in his wonderful English. Indira Gandhi was vicious towards her critics, including throwing opponents into slammer. Rajiv Gandhi famously said “I don’t have to answer every barking dog!” Now, Sonia Sphinx Gandhi and Gandhi brats have continued this tradition of intolerance well into the fourth generation. Dr.Manmohan ‘timid’ Singh, as a disciplined soldier of the party has mimicked the Gandhis. Advani’s lapses cannot justify Manmohan Singh’s lapses. Two wrongs cannot make anything right.
Mr Mehta is searching for depth and philosophy in a cess pit. It is funny to see words like ‘high ideals’ and ‘affirmitive idea’ being used on any Indian political party. Cutting across party lines, they all will do what will get them elected. If they have to pawn their kids and slay their fathers, these guys surely will ..
What I find insulting is that Mr.Mehta claims ” ..majority as a helpless victim, unable to stand up for itself. In a way, this demeaned most Hindus ” . No, you idiot, did you ever even think that quite a few of the people who voted for the BJP did so because, maybe, they do feel victimized ? Maybe they do want to vote anti-congress(darlings of the muslim vote bank) even if it means voting for a crappy BJP ? Else how do you explain the sustained performance of the BJP ? From 2 seats in 1984 to 138 in 2004, not to mention forming governments in between ? Claiming the 23%(vs 26 for the Congress) who voted for BJP in 2004 did so for the wrong reasons — hate, disgruntled, grudge et al, you ARE insulting a vast majority of the hindus. Whatever the reason, they do want to support BJP. It’s a reality whether we like it or not. So sock it ..
Having said the above, BJP is no angel. Nor is Congress or a BSP or any other party. Cutting across party lines, they all will do what will get them elected. If they have to pawn their kids and slay their fathers these guys surely will. To attribute any more depth and search for non existent ideals is a wild goose chase..
@Harkol,
Great points.
Pratap Bhanu Mehta rocks! Very thoughtful.
But to be fair, the Congress also has traditionally indulged in “politics of victimhood” on certain issues — e.g. on Jammu & Kashmir, etc.
I expected the same ans, no surprises though.
Goebbels believed that if you keep repeating a lie several times, people will begin to believe it.
Does any one addressing the hurt/victimhood politics played by BJP?? Nope.
This is the sam
e BJP and the same same candidate who led a death and destruction throughout the country through his ruth yatra for demolition of a Mosque. All in the name of Hurt committed centuries ago. The same victimhood being now played at personal level now. Tell us what exactly is the contribution of Advani apart for sowing seeds of hatred and responsible for death of thousands of fellow citizens, during his yatra as well as Home ministership.
This caused hurt to this fellow!!!
Is the anyone countering the charge? nope. But everyone does have so many other things to say about congress. Is it the point? Nope.
A community so vast playing victimhood for so loong even after cornering all the economic and political benefit for the last 60 years?
A person responsible for thousands of death of his fellow citizen is hurt when question of his contribution. Such a sensitive person Advani is? It is not the same advani who in youth planted bombs and watched massacer as Homeminister?
Yes his only contribution is hatred between fellow citizens, that much is acknowledged.
This writer is an idiot of the highest order. Or he’s trying to be too clever by half.
The BJP is not the party of Hindu “victimhood”. It can be argued quite convincingly that the BJP is a paper tiger by itself.
On the other hand all parties that have Hindus of whatever Caste/Tribe in them..and those that are conscious of these identities, are repositories of Hindu pride and the felt need for self-assertion. Not “victim-hood” as is stupidly being asserted, but of the need to assert their identity.
That is why I say that even a 100% win for non-BJP parties in “Orissa”…cannot prevent another “Kandhamal”.
In TN we have regular power cut on all days ranging from 2 to 4 hours every day. We have had power cut on Deepavali, Republic day, Indipendence day, Gandhi jayanti, Pongal and all Hindu festivals. But there is no power cut on Easter, Bakrid, Ramzan, Christmas, and all other Muslim festivals. I have taken up this issue with the EB and they are helpless as they are instructed by the Government in this regard. What is wrong in asking for the Hindu rights. We are also the Citizens of India. Congress calls BJP as communal but by calling BJP a communal party they are communal. There is nobody to question this?
Nice one, Nectar Rao!
Boastful, I won’t dismiss Tejomahalaya as a crackpot theory:)
Mehta is aiming to be the next ‘Jairam Ramesh’ :)
As the Phase I (of many) of the polling for general elections begins today, There was an interesting photo on the front page of “The Hindu” . I could not figure out the best way to post it to churumuri directly so I am pasting the link here.
http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/16/stories/2009041658100100.htm
The picure shows polling officials crossing a water body in Andhra Pradesh along with a donkey laden with electronic voting machines. I wonder what the situation was in the previous election? Was it any different? and what it will be in the next? will it be anything different? (A human being doing what the donkey is doing this time?) And for this time, is this all that Rs. 10000 Crores could arrange for?
Khan,
It is possible to awaken a sleeping person, not a person who pretends to be asleep. You will believe what you want to believe. Central Home Ministry’s records themselves have disclosed that there were no riots during the whole Rath yatra, no death no destruction. But, you can continue to be an ostrich with head buried in sand!
As regards destruction of temples, go and see Kutub Minar. What do you see around the Minar? Make a fisrt hand report about the destroyed temple corridors, columns, statues.
The Indian state is constitutionally secular. But there is substance to the argument that minorities are given special treatment (subsidies,concession for education and religious laws) and the same is denied to even the poorest among Hindus. The BJP started with a proper agenda (uniform civil code, an end to Art.370, no vote banks) but has ended up as corrupt and communal as the Congress.
Now wonder, voters seem nonplussed in 2009.
Isnt there also stories of how Hindu temples in South India were built in the post Sankara era on Buddhist and Jain monuments?
BTW can anyone point out one single physical structure from the era between Harrappa-Mohenjodaro and the Stupas of Asoka.
ADVANI’s greatest contribution to India is to make us Indians sitting ducks for the terrorists to kill/bomb at their will.
Gaby – Are you kite flying? If not, then please state you’re case clearly.
What stories are you referring to? Where are these stories and who is telling them? Let’s discuss.
Yes, Vedic Hindus did not construct Temples. This practice was most likely borrowed from Buddhists. What about it?
On July 8th, 2006 this man said… I quote Indian Express
“..This episode reflects badly on the Prime Minister and the consistent failure of his leadership to set the right moral tone in institutional matters.”
NOT ONLY THIS HE ADDS…
“It gives credence to the charge that this government is getting out of control. Various members of the cabinet are charting their own course, intoxicated by their own power and driven by their own agendas—while the Prime Minister watches helplessly.”
MORE HERE…
” Various directives from the government are making it clear that this government wants more control over institutions of higher education. It operates with a bizarre conception of accountability”
HOW SANCTIMONIOUSLY HE ARGUED…
“For fundamentally, a nation which denies its institutions of Higher Learning certain privileges, shows signs of cultural, institutional and social decay”
U know what? I called him a ‘saner voice’ then!!!
link
http://theprudentindian.wordpress.com/2006/07/11/saner-voice/
Need I say more!
PI.
Pal,
What Gaby says is correct.
Tirupati and Sabarimala were supposed to be Buddhist vihara/temples that were later converted to Hindu temples after the decline of Buddhism.
Gosh PH the last time I felt this way was when I spoke to my head teacher- you are not one I hope- state your case clearly indeed. Stop being so peremptory!
I was not talking only of temples in the Vedic periods – but also of the palaces and mansions our BR Chpras and Ramanand Sagars depicts so gaudily.
Religion should unite people, not divide them.
Stop squabbling like children.
Gaby – Amazing theory!! Do you have any references that I can read on?
Adi Shankara redefined Indian tradition by reforming vedic religion and giving it a philosophical (rational) foundation. Though he proselytized, he did it by using Tarkashastra – Force of arguments. He would challenge the then scholars for a debate with a condition that who ever looses will become the student of the other. We can safely say the modern Hindu ritualism was codified and defined at the time of Shankara (if not by himself).
And he did that by aggregating various forms of spirtituality in India, by combining then popular Jain/Buddhist beliefs, thoughts and rituals (pooja for example is a ritual imported from jainism – where a ritualistic offering of Flowers (pu or Pushpa) are made). So, most hindu rituals conclude with an offering of flowers.
However the tradition of ritualistic offering predates Jainism/Buddhism. The offerings were to the dieties Indra, varuna, Agni and mostly through Yagna (also called Homa). This ritual was practiced in open areas and not within constructed temples.
However, there are evidences of having halls where such rituals took place, which were later converted to temples, but the temples themselves are about 1000-1500 years old.
So, it is quite plausible that some Jain/Buddhist places of worship morphed into Hindu places of worship as more and more of India embraced Shankara’s rejuvenated vedic-religion, that included the concept of Pooja, instead of the original Homa-Havana method of offerings.
Historically there are no records of Hindus demolishing places of worship of other faith like Buddhism and Jainism and constructing temples on their ruins on a scale witnessed during Islamic rule when Hindu temples were ripped apart and mosques constructed in a relentless drive to convert dal ul harab to dar ul islam. There have been attacks but as Romila Thapar herself says, they were very limited and confined to one or two incidents in a century.
But the secular zealots and communists paint the occasional outburst of Hindu “intolerance” as the general rule while projecting a general picture of “Muslim catholicity” (which is an oxymoron) by citing an exceptional case of Akbar or Dara Shiko. This reeks of hypocrisy.
narasimha – Have I denied it? What do I know? What does anybody here know for sure? I have just downloaded an e-book by Jamnadas of Ambedkar.org. He says the same thing about Tirupathi. Net net, it could have been true.
But implications? Brahmins killed off Buddhists…nay slaughtered them! They did to Buddhists what Muslims did to Hindus! What nonsense! Stuff about Harsha and Shashanka and Pushyamitra…hogwash that Hindu baiting maligners never bother to back up.
There is nothing wrong with me “jumping” at Gaby. There have been plenty of such kite flying with the usual undertones. Just read your own post – “what Gaby says is correct”. How can it be “correct” when it is “supposed” in your next line?
@Harkol,
Dude, you rock ! A succinct balanced argument.
Idiot: It is true that there hasn’t been any good example of a Kind Muslim ruler who was acceptable to both Muslims and Hindus.
Akbar and Dara Shiko had terrible differences with their own. Dara was killed by his own religious fanatic brother, betrayed by his own friend in the name of defending Islam. Akbar was disliked by the muslim clergy and his son’s totally ignored him. In any case, Akbar moved away from Islam religion and started his own religion. He faced many revolts by the Muslim fanatics for his acts. When he died he had no close family members near him.
Tipu Sultan, the other celebrated Muslim King, too had his share of spoiling temples and crushing hindu’s in his early rule. He ‘tolerated’ some temples, but crushed quite a few temples which he felt was shelter to people who were challenging his realm. The stories of deities and temples destroyed by him are hundreds across karnataka and kerala.
In general Hindu ethos does permit a more liberal, secular world-view. A few intolerant people kicking and screaming won’t change that. But, they are certainly a shame on a great Indian way of life, and should be resisted. That isn’t about making that a general rule, but speaking up against extremism within Hindu faith.
What is this “Sissie” business? Some Male chauvinist at work again!
Generally, according to JNU and ICHR school of historians, pre-buddhist India was very oppressive and intolerant. If at all there is any good in pre-Islamic culture in India, it is on account of Buddhism. During after Islamic regime, all the wonderful things found in “Indian” culture are the contribution of Muslims, be it music, painting, architecture, not to speak of sufi “contribution” to Vedanta and Bhakti cult.
Harkol, I fully agree that extremism in any form is dangerous and there should be resistance to it. But my complaint is that outbursts of Hindu extremism is never spared (rightly so) but there is conspiracy of silence against Muslim intolerance. If you highlight a few, then you are immediately dubbed “communal”. This site itself refused to have a debate on the arrest of the Statesman editor in communist-ruled Kolkata when Muslims took to the streets against an article which hurt their religious sentiments. A secular zealot Teesta Setalvad has been accused of sexing up cases of Gujarat riots by the SIT appointed by Supreme Court. But which mainstream English media has bothered to debate this kind of activism which is another kind of extremism ?
harkol – “In general Hindu ethos does permit a more liberal, secular world-view.”
– Why can this not be simply Hindu ethos? Why bring in the unwanted baggage of Liberal and Secular “worldviews”?
And what does “permit” mean? What are we calling that Hinduism that may not “permit”?
Khan seems to have a lot of time at his disposal, to babble. That do you for your daily bread, mr. Khan?
Pal,
I have no problem in you jumping at Gaby or anybody else on this board.
Have a field day :)
I agree with you there are a lot inoccuous posters on this site, who indulge in insinuations against hinduism and I am with you in opposing this tendency.
Pratap Bhanu Mehta, in his article attributes Gujarat’s economic development to ‘authoritarianism’. One wonders how is this possible. Can authoritarianism help economic development? Were Lenin, Hitler, Stalin and Mao ever were successful in being authoritarian in economic matters?
On the other hand, if Gujarat had gone down hill economically, that would have been an additional stick beat Modi with! What has this Guju got against the other Guju?
Narasimha and PH- I will never indulge in insinuations against ‘ Hinduism’ -my only attempt is to laugh at you guys and the nonsense you usually spout !
Some information on architecture in pre-Ashokan India. Good to know.
http://www.culturopedia.com/Architecture/architecture.html
Gaby made the point about Sagar’s mythic sets. The word is “kitsch”. Polished folk don’t take kindly to such display of kitsch. They run it down as in bad taste and gaudy. They also crib about calendar art. Gods and Goddesses painted per artiste standards.
I myself have felt better at home with a “Chanakya” than a “Ramayana” or a “Mahabharat”. However, I don’t care too much. There are many folks who don’t care too much as long as the central message is not lost. The add-ons please them more.
During the time, there was another “Mahabharata” that was enacted with more “natural” sets. I don’t remember the name of the producer. Wasn’t very popular though. People thought it too drab and dull in colors and sets. (Peter Brook?) The polished folks loved it.
Conceit is not the monopoly of polished folks you know :)
>>I will never indulge in insinuations against ‘ Hinduism’ >>
Gaby,
The Hinduism in quotes tells everything you intend to do on this board. ;) I think the joke is on you :)
Churumuri lets us discuss this one by the same author:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/an-unconscionable-act/447301/
We have had many people writing in these columns, but are they going to vote, do they really know as to who is contesting from their constituency, are they going to put the stamp on the name or the symbol. Hi – Gubby, Guru, Narasimha, Ramam Madhu
You can write plenty but when it comes to practicality all will goof!
PH my friend the link you post makes my point- There is an amazing lack of any evidence of architecture between Harappa and Pataliputra ( metaphorically)!
Well Gaby, lack of evidence does not mean non-existence.
Now, where else have I said that? Hmm