PALINI R. SWAMY writes from Bangalore: The floods in Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh have ravaged the lives, lands and houses of hundreds of thousands of people, and brought misery in a festive season. Our hearts go out to all those affected.
The floods have also brought the Raghavendra Swamy mutt in Mantralaya under the spotlight.
On the one hand, the water from the Tungabhadra and its tributaries cut off all access roads to the mutt. And, on the other hand, the unseemly hurry of the Karnataka chief minister B.S. Yediyurappa to announce relief for a rich mutt in Andhra Pradesh even before reacting to the woes of his citizens, has raised eyebrows.
However, as far as I am concerned, there is a third, although very trivial and very peripheral, issue to debate, which is this KPN picture published by churumuri on October 2.
The picture has Sri Suyateendra Teertha swamiji, the senior seer and peetadhipati of the Mutt, being helped out of an Indian Air Force (IAF) helicopter after being rescued and airlifted from the flood-ravaged Brindavana of the Madhwa saint, Guru Raghavendra Swami in Kurnool district.
“…even the divine hand of Sri Suyateendra Teertha swamiji requires help from an air force hand to escape the wrath of nature,” read churumuri‘s caption.
That sent me wondering about the great leveller that is a natural disaster.
Madhwas, at least the many I know, are great believers and practitioners in madi. On the face of it, madi is a custom to maintain purity and gain strength to perform specific rituals or festivals.
It entails not eating in houses other than your own or in public places; it entails not having sexual intercourse.
It also entails not having bodily contact with other jathis.
By itself, madi may not be something any non-Madhwa can object to. After all, it is one community’s religious observance for rituals and festivals designed to protect the satvik nature of the priest, like it or lump it.
However, in its use in daily life, especially in the way it has come to be used by Brahmin priests especially of the Madhwa order, surely it is no sacrilege to suggest that madi has become a modern version of “untouchability”?
So, as I watched the picture—the swamiji and the IAF man not quite in physical contact but close—I was left wondering how an intimation of mortality can demolish some very old and strong rituals in even the most devout. And I was wondering if the swamiji went and had a bath after this interaction with someone from some other jathi.
The best case scenario is that the IAF man too was a Madhwa. And a good official defence is that the swamiji does not observer madi except when doing poojas, etc.
Probable, of course, but how likely?
Also read: Should swamijis travel abroad by air?
That’s what I thought too.
Raghavendra Swami is supposed to be so tolerant then how come his successors practise this draconian kind of maDi.
Celibacy is only for inmates of the maTh, not for other kinds of maDi.
If YSR’s death can be attributed to Venkateswara’s retribution then this calamity should be due to the all the mine barons, their contractors and their trucks getting blessed in Mantralaya!
This can be justified by both superstition and reason, those evil things’ contribution to earth’s degrade wrought nature’s wrath.
“The best case scenario is that the IAF man too was a Madhwa. And a good official defence is that the swamiji does not observer madi except when doing poojas, etc.”
Damned if you do; Damned if you don’t.
Sorry Palini, i find this post completely pointless and petty to some extent.
Talk is cheap. To condemn, deride and ridicule an individual or institution is easy and after reading your blog for sometime now I have come to realize that churumuri is pretty good at this.
In all this floods/calamity when soo many people are suffering your blog had only this to offer as assistance? Having quite a few regular readers (who are presumably rich) is this all you could come up with to be of some assistance in this situation? Your previous post takes a cheap shot at the CM and this one takes another cheap shot at a 360 year old institution.
A couple of months ago there was an article in TOI about the Pejawar Mutt Swamiji having food in a Dalit colony. While you and your ilk behave like bullies in primary school (teasing , name calling and passing remarks), the world around you is moving forward.
This has been the worst floods in the past 106 years. I would like to make a humble request to Churumuri to use its influence and its followers to be of some assistance in this sad situation and provide some assistance to the authorities.
You can of course get back to your finger pointing, name calling and passing judgment on individuals and institutions after the situation has improved.
I have a simple question.. what about the common people who were trapped due to flood.. were they given air support like this ? Or only Swamis are entitled to this special privilege ?
somebody please enlighten me..
Story of a man, his son and a donkey. You do whatever in this country. wise guys will always be there ready to criticize, find fault, debunk, spread morality, point fingures etc. etc. . Mr. Palani is one of those genius wise guys. Make him CM, he will set right Karnataka.
Besides that custom to maintain purity and gain strength to perform specific rituals or festivals we use the word ‘maDi’ in Kannada also means ‘to die’.
In Kannada there is a proverb – ‘Maadu illave Madi’ (meaning Do or Die).
Was the seer caught in (aCatch 9 ) ‘Maadu illave Madi’ situation ?
Maadu also means ‘Akaasha” (Sky) in Kannada.
It reminds me of humming Purandaradasa’s lyric :
‘Maadu sikkadalla maadina goodu sikkadalla
Jodu hendiranji odi hoguvaaga
goade biddu bayalaayithella
Echchara golalilla manave huchchanaadenalla
Achchinolage mechchu mechchinolage achchu,
kichcheddu hoyithella
Muppu bandithalla tappade Paayasa unalilla
Thuppada bindige thippeye mele
doppane biththalla
Yogavu banthalla baduku vibhagya vaayithella
Bhogi shayana Shree Purandara Vittalana
aaga neneyalilla’.
At home we refer to these folks as the “Madi Taliban”.
I am related to a gentlemen who runs a Veda Patashala.
He expects his wife to have a bath every time she touches her daughter who is under a year old. Her daughter can not be given milk regularly on the grounds of Madi.
His wife is not allowed to visit any household other than Brahmins on account of Madi Taliban.
This guy is the blue eyed boy of many Iyer mutts in Karnataka and Tamil Nadu. He gets donations from all the cross-belt babus and corporate types.
He never lifts his hand…but torchering a child like that is violence. I feel like getting the guy thrown in jail for domestic violence.
This proves , time & again, that Practicality supersedes ‘Madi’.
We need to prioritise as per the needs of the hour. ‘Madi’ or conventions just spice-up life with self-proclaimed pleasure which a pious being derives by adhering to the ‘madi’ but little does he/she comprehend that life cant proceed with mere following of ‘madi’!
This is a posting I came across on http://www.indiadivine.org. Interesting, isn’t it?
“I visited Mantralayam – abode of Sri Raghavendraswamy.
” in Mantralayam i was allowed to have darshan of “guru raghavendra” only from a distance because i am a a sourashtra brahmin (not a madhva brahmin)”. But Madhva brahmins were allowed to go near the rayarus brindavan. when i asked permission to enter, they gave a staring look at me as though i am a sudra.
Note : Even “Iyengars” were not allowed near the brindavan.Only Madhvas were allowed.
some other caste devotees tried to touch the golden chariot but madhva priests scolded them as telling them as sudras. But i boldly went & touched the chariot by chanting “Om namo bhagavathe vasudevaya”. so they couldnt able to scold me.
i dont like this kinda caste discrimination in “Mantralayam” & other “dwaita” mutts.
I have lost all respect i had towards “Dwaitham”. Of course, i still respect “Sri madhwacharya”. i think these priests are misusing dwaitham. i dont think God Narayana will love these secretarial madhva brahmins.
Hereafter i wont visit any madhwa mutts .
i didnt see any caste discrimination in “Sri Ramanuja’s abode – Sri perumbuthur”. everyone are allowed to have darshan of Sri Ramanuja.
Hereafter i will visit only Sri Ramanuja shrines & vishnu temples.I will not hereafter support dwaitham. “
Dude, If anybody comments on the rituals,practices that u guys follow in your home or religion is a bullshit, then what would be your response…your blood get boiled right…In kannada there is a proverb, avra eleli heggana biddidru nodade bere avra eleli nona hudukthare antha…Just try and wash your stinks..dont get ur nose to others to know how they are smelling…
dear palini: you can do better.
Somewhere I got reminded reading about some Pilot Purohita who flies planes himself to arrange poojas in US. I wonder his madi!!
Centre – congress , AP-congress , Chidu – Tamil , Krishna -foreign wig hudga, Kharge – modest, thinks more about country and countrymen , Moily- don’t care apart from Mangloor and gay laws. What else can we expect .
None from mutt asks – BSY grants relief.
Reddy donates to richest God to tune of 50 crores!!
Odeyar donates to richest God on eve of Dasara.
Mallya doesn’t seem to care. Probably will send toddy and neera for cold affected.
NRN company is very helpful from day 1 if Tsunami occurs in TN but never bothers in home state. Who bothers- Kannadigas are <10% in their company. Foundation of Sudha Murthy also quite quiet – should be busy with dollar sose -2.
KM shaw wants two airports in Bangalore. If Bangalore submerges I think she will vacate silently.
Premji – silent. busy with quarters and results.
Krishna silently gives his Indian sambala . what a gesture! silent on gimbala though.
Rest of people with fat packets are busy visiting malls ,talking classical Tamil , Russel Peters,molesting air hostesses and abusing Paki/Punjabi Hindi .
How many worry about dry parts of North Karnataka.
I think making a hill station Bangalore as capital city with lazy weather itself is making people not think about other parts. They are already enjoying climate with sip of beer and working for wel(ill)fare of bar girls.
But nobody wants to build bridges,proper houses , dams and increasing water table in a state of thousands of Engineering colleges. why? Madi sar madi.
A classical example of farting capitalism .
Interesting is Congress who sniffed it for 50 years wants to be austere. Madi !!!!! How can they? Are they Madhwas. Nehru!!! With inclusion of Edwina , Feroze and Sonia?? Sonia is madi with her country and it's citizens, even CBI shouldn't touch Ottavio quattrocchi.Idu roman civilization madi
Now a political gimmick CEOs who informally built capitalist congress it seems ,have to cut down vulgar salaries . How boss. How can they give out Lakshmi.Madi sar madi.
Our own burgeoning congress leaders sidda, deshpande ,dkshi , byra , youth congress everyone is busy visiting places just to see where errors have occured. aerial survey ,cars, petrol – who cares.
I think it's high time to rebuild North Karnataka and the funds which come now if utilised in a marxist social approach- than with capitalist – public distribution system, should be able to build barada naadu /shapitha naadu.
It's really intellectual failure which is in favour of society built on money -the only thing we know about Marx is WB, Mamta, Buddhadeb, singur, china ,red,blood,violence,defeat . forget russia and japan. I just saw Kanchivaram. It was a movie which depicted a father's love and care for a child and nothing more concrete, and CNN-IBN of Sardesai and his Indian desi chicks and blondes reported that communist are those who don't practice what they preach when it got award. Kobad Gandhy is arrested and depicted as if he is worst soul of world.
From where to where???
If we see portfolio of this democracy from majority netas are one or other criminals. All bureaucrats have to be corrupt -Manmohan Singh agrees and professes that corruption is a phenomenon which is there to remain as a great philosopher at 70+ , judiciary is sexy without RTI about assets,Incapable defence with such huge borderline and peninsula, ecstatic torrential porn of world's largest movie (mirror of society) industry!!
What other violence are we afraid of?
I really pity the madi of democracy.
But I really love the wonderful chitranna/puliyogare given at some of temples of Bangalore, and daasoha at mutts and it's honour to eat it when being madi.
Being part of nature this is what we can do best when madi.
Being supernatural we always can be Indians and curse north Karnataka.
Sigh… the ignorance of people commenting on Madi is astounding. This is shown by the fact that they decide to call avoiding contact with people to keep away impurities as practising untouchability.
For those of you who claim madi is practising untouchability, madi does not keep away people based on caste/religion. It keeps even family members away.. For example, if my grandma/grandpa is practising madi, of course i am not allowed to touch them with my dirty hands/limbs despite being the same caste/subcaste or whatever you call it.This is logic. it is not discrimination.
I am amazed that morons here did not pick out the practice of wearing face masks during the swine flu epidemic, show some brahmin doing it and then claiming the brahmin is practising untouchability and chuachoot by not wanting to breathe unfiltered air from other ppl around him. Somehow, to all the madi critiques here, that seemed logical but avoiding physical contact with people to maintain purity seemed discriminatory.
Kindly research the practices thoroughly before commenting on them!
BLOODY JOKERS!
***
Oh yes, almost forgot to mention. How cheap can you people get. People and dying and/or suffering under floods in both Andhra and Karnataka and the focus of your discussions are on “Madi” and the “borders of the state”?
Rivers such as krishna & cauvery flow across state borders and there is nothing wrong in the two state governments working together to provide relief to ppl in both states. And yet here ppl squabble as to which part of relief should be provided to ppl on which side of the borders. this is just plain DISGUSTING!
Swamiji and his god had an excellent opportunity to display their powers. Unfortunately chopper rescuers spoiled it.
This is called being pragmatic and adapting to the circumstances. Obviously, Palini has a problem with it.
In the same yardstick, I have seen many staunch veggies ending up in remote corners of the world and forced to meat-eating to survive. Now, do you start blaming them for being veggies in the first place? Will you start deriding the entire veggie population?
http://enguru.blogspot.com/2009/10/manege-maariyaagadirali-kannadiga.html
some food for thought for churumuri and the vishwamanava ‘indian first!’ types.
Dear Palani Swamy and Churumuri,
Please stop looking at everything using your ‘caste’ and ‘political party affiliation’. You can extend this petty arguement to many unwanted levels – but it does no good. So, please grow up and stop these silly things.
totally agree with Mysore peshava …I dont think the swamiji is squiriming as he is aided while getting down or shooing the airman away. Also, its not as bad as u make it out, I have seen people from various walks of life irrespective of caste / sub caste/… touching the feet and getting blessing !
A disgusting article from Palani, all he can do is name calling and ridicule age old customs and duties…. is Palani blind to the rehabilitation works being planned by the swamiji for Mantralayam, he has ordered for free food for 2 times from mutt for the villagers… what shld we call people Palani as jaaNa kivudu or selective hearing…. really really disgusting show by churmuri…
@ Raaja:
What a rant!
Mr. Palini
Madi means clean, not untouchability. First understand the basic difference between Madi and Untouchability. Just don’t write for sake of writting. That is the fate of India today with people like you who misunderstand and interpret wrong about our rituals. For your information, there was no caste system discussed anywhere in hinduism. But people like you create for your benefits.
I pray that you get enough knowledge.
Kiran
Prashanth Bhat
Can you be specific as to what you found as rant.
Why is Churumuri allowing topics like Madi etc as if there is a lack of topics for discussion. Madi is an individual’s choice and cannot be questioned on the basis of caste and creed. Madi is meant for personal hygiene, Satvic Guna and it has been widely accepted, though of late it is waning. Please discuss some good topics.
@Kiran,
If caste system is not discussed in Hinduism, who were practicing untouchability? Who’s Lord said ‘Brahman is my head, Kshatriya is my shoulder, Vaishya is my abdomen and Shudra is my Legs’? Mom’s and Dad’s belonging to which religion ask whats the caste, when their children tell about love affair.? Its not only discussed but practiced by Hindus. Even RSS people will say, all Hindus are same, but when it comes to marriage they show that all Hindus are not same, but their caste people are above others. So Hinduism has caste system, preaches caste system, defends caste system and will die, if at all, because of caste system.
Some commentors dont even want churumuri to discuss about ‘madi’ though they dont see any problem if religious leaders practises and propagates what is essentially an illegal practise. Madi may be justified by saying it is just personal hygiene or a hundred other things. But it is one of the clever ways thought up to discriminate against people of various castes and render them untouchable and condemn them to a lesser status from birth. Delude yourself that is it is not so and madi is purely some personal matter, but that wont make the purpose of the practise go away.
And their urging churumuri to not discuss it is funny too – like saying just sweep the dust under the carpet.
Face it, times have long changed dudes…
this is ridiculous. From ages Bramhins no matter Madhwa or Smartha have been ridiculed for their practices. But we have no issues. But I dare u or even double dare u try ridiculing OTHERs!
So to summarise the reluctant fundamentalists of Churumuri commentators above:
1. Madi is not untouchabilty though it directly and indirectly has encouraged untouchability for a thousand years.
2. Caste system either did not exist or misinterpreted.
3. If someone opposes these premedieval superstitions, attack them for being hindu basher.
I agree.. with Yaksha once again. This is RIDICULOUS.
@Cool Dude
How is it any of your business if somebody and somebody’s family wants them to be of the same caste/group? That is for them to discuss and solve! Its not a topic for public discussion, alias GOSSIP!
@Anonymous Guy
I have given a very specific example offering myself upto ridicule by pointing out that the practice of Madi even distances on a physical level, one’s own family, despite family members being of same caste and creed(following your definitions of castism)! How you term this discrimination on basis of caste and creed baffles me! Would you kindly care to elucidate?
hahha,
Palani, good one,it speaks a lot about madi when HH Swamiji chose to get rescued instead of a watery grave. So madi or otherwise, it is all about living to see tomorrow, innit? Why not buy a hand sanitiser and start touching and feeling lower mortals then?
What would Guru Raghavendra do?
Trust a self-righteous hack to come ‘madi’ the waters.
I would have wished the seer to walk on water to safety
I have been to Mantralya they have too sections for food
One for public and the other hall for all those janavara janardhanas
This mutt needs to learn a lot from darmssthala
@AG,
The madi taliban don’t take kindly to anybody questioning their ‘sacred’ practices.. no suprises there isnt it :)
For all those folks who claim madi = personal hygiene, please visit any nearby rayara mathas and see for yourself how hygienic those places are.
@AG
yeah… times have changed and people so prolifically propagate individualism and freedom and yet hypocritically will not stop criticising groups. And hence, by doing so they themselves follow what the preach not to follow.
@ everyone into Brahmin bashing
Considering Casteism and caste based discrimination is something you want to avoid and stop, and considering brahmins are one of the “castes” (although there are quite a few examples of members of other castes becoming brahmans which basically means scholar or one who studies), aren’t u yourself practising CASTEISM by picking only on Brahmins? Isn’t it caste based discrimination to ridicule only brahmins like the other groups have NO ridiculous practices whatsoever?
@Prajwal,
I was commenting on “For your information, there was no caste system discussed anywhere in hinduism.”; Nothing more nothing less!
Lo prajwal,
If I remove your janivara you will cease to be a Brahmin.
Brahmin is just a caste name which is taken when you register to LKG and when you are ready to intercourse – both for govt certificates . That’s Indianness karma.
All caste names have to be bashed I for that matter bash brahmin veerashaiva shiya sunni jews christians buddhist jainism etc etc whoever wants to cash out great philosophies since nobody who are attributed to be their founders preached them as castes!!
In your case it’s “Brahman” and not Brahmin. If you still follow Brahmin, Pandit and casteist politics ultimately you will end with Edwina.
If you are true Brahman in philosophy, why do you oppose Brahmin bashing?
Speaking about Madhwa culture Kanakadasa has said
Kula kula kulavendu hodadaadadiro ninna kulada pariyenadaru ballira…..
Vande vandyam sadanandam speaks about oneness of all.
Madhwa never told anyone to attach a name for themselves. For that matter Hanumantha – Vayu Chiranjeevi who is core of Madhwacharya philosophy …was he so conscious of madi.
Now you may try defending that Mutt’s Swami need to be neat and clean and all even if God is unclean , but how can he save if nature itself downpours?
Looking at article I never found anything disturbing commented about personal hygiene , neither swami. The author raised reservations only against superstitions still practiced at homes which I think needs to be severely broken to properly follow Madhwa philosophy.
@Cool dude:
“Brahmonsya mukha maaseth, Baahu rajanya kritha, Ooru thadhasya yadhvaishyaha, padhbhyagam shoodhro ajaayatha”
These lines are from the Purushasooktha which appears both in the krishna yajurveda and the shukla yajurveda and a contextual reading of it should help you understand what it means. This essentially is a hymn of creation but the lines above definitely does not mean what you say. It esentially suggests the responsibility of the different sects of people without attributing superiority to any of them. As far as you thinking thaat head is superior than the feet is a classic case of selective or conditioned thought where by the development of your thoughh attributes a greater status to the head than the feet. And I am sure if you caree to look it iin a freer sense you will not faal to recognize the essential imaprtiality of the verse. And I would suggest that, though it might be fashionable and in vogue to qquote whaatever little we know or have heard of the Vedas, considering that it makes for conditioned peopel to assume moral superiority, that you refrain from such superficial monolgues on the subject atleat untill you attain what you personally would come to judge as a thorough understanding.
@ Rajaa:
I would have loved to write on it but time being a constraint now, if you could suggest another forum where we could have a more objective discussion, I would be gladdened.
***
@Raaja:
I had not noticed your comment to Prajwal above and it’s plain apalling. Perhaps we culd discuss that too. It might be a bit unfashionable in these times to stand for an ancient thought, but mind you, it’s not without reason!
***
@ Cool dude:
At the same time I must also accept that the misinterpretatins have been used by many for their narrow ends but it wouldn’t be appropriate to undermine the philosophical thought.
As they say, times don’t change; people do!
Prashantha Bhat
As you said if you are truly objective, ille munduvaresi whenever you get time.
Ellaru dhanyaraagali..
@raaja
I personally don’t recall my providing my caste and religion details before/during/after intercourse. So i wonder where you got this notion in your head. And i also pity you with wonder as to where you had to provide the same to intercourse. My heartfelt sympathies!
About mentioning it in LKG forms for govt. records, i never said it was right. I say it is wrong and to this day maintain that mentioning CASTE/CREED irrespective of brahmin or SC/ST should be banned in educational/other institutions. It just leads to practising casteism under the name of RESERVATIONS for privileged/under privileged sections of society.
As for brahman philosophy and “brahmin bashing”. I wouldn’t say anything if you pointed out valid practices and scrutinized them. But to pick each and every practice and belief of only one group all the time is not only stupid but also pointless. And hence, following the brahman philosophy, i say that this “brahmin bashing” doesn’t provide solutions nor does it highlight any new problem/development.
On the other hand, it is people who think like you that come into government and make rules such as 50-75% reservations for spl castes and groups! You claim this will help in ridding casteism but all you are doing is making these spl interest groups the new “elite class”. SO maybe a 100 yrs from now “brahmins” will be the spl interest groups and will have reservations everywhere. But then again, your purpose of rooting out casteism from society will still not be achieved…all this because the bulk of intelligentsia which forms the government in a democracy fails to think outside the box to solve conundrums such as casteism.
On the other hand, you intellectuals will not address issues like DOWRY which is also illegal and is still practiced by a huge percent of our population, irrespective for caste or creed. Oh thats right, im sorry,DOWRY is DOWRY only if brahmins do it, but if other castes follow it it is called wedding gifts, am i right?
@ Raaja:
In the first place I did not proclaim myself to be an objective fellow because whether I am one or not is not the question. I just requested if we could have an objetive discussion rather than petty name calling that you seem to have indulged in your previous posts on this thread. This perhaps explains what is “rant” in your post. I would do well to ask what is not “rant” there? An objective discussion is not held through petty name calling nor through statements of mockery like “Ellaru dhanyaraagali”. Inspite of your lowly attempts to mock at me, I chose to respond because elements like you perhaps need to be shown that a majority laughing off at something doesn’t make it insignificant.
On your throwing around of words pertaining to Marxism, Socialism and Capitalism, may you please be kind enough to espouse on the above ideas? As I said to “cool dude” in my previous post, you could throw around all the words aand dropas many names as you want, but the insignificance of it all iss seen in the philosophical hollowness surrounding your argument.
Assuming that you are well versed in the philosophical and economic ideas surrounding Socialism, Capitalism and many other “isms” of economic theories, the basis of your idea from whatever I can make out from your rant seem to be the idea of selfishness, as a virtue or otherwise. Perhaps if you espouse on this a little more in your next post we could go further and look into your far greater ideas of socialism and capitalism. So many aspects of ancient and contemporary study beegin with answer to a primary question and “selfishness” is one such. So I propose that we identify it.
On a more general note to belittle anyone is the very antithesis of inclusive socialism that you so seem to be proud of. To comment on people of repute with a wagging tongue which knows not its boundaries is more a mirror to the self than anything else. Inherent contradictions, which are more often contradictions of convenience is the essence of every common being and me or you are not oblivious to it. Thus to assume a moral high ground on the basis of ones temporal fluctuation of ideas and belittling someone is definitely not a sign of objectivity.
Prajwal,
Practising madi with women of one’s own family, being clean, adhering to some philosophy etc. is not a defense for discrimination which was and is propagated using this method. It isn’t an excuse for something which is illegal and a cause of weakness for our society.
The practice of deeming a person fit for doing only one set of things (brahmin, kshatriya, shudra etc.), from his birth without giving him the same chances as others is illegal. Illegal based on our constitution – which is the basic set of rules we are supposed to agree on as a people. Right? And symbolic practices which were used to propagate such things in the past will be viewed with suspicion if they are done publicly in the present – no amount of justifying and arguing will make that go away.
As of now public practise of symbolic discrimination in the form of madi etc. are slowly losing their shine – you can see for yourself. With time as people who have been at the receiving end of these cleverly built up structures get exposed to newer ideas from elsewhere some older ideas will have to find new meaning and relevance to survive.
Maybe madi will end up being only about personal hygiene or avoiding swine flu. Or maybe new caste/linguistic/economic structures in our society will bring it back into fashion as a means to differentiate or discriminate.
Time will tell.
The matha is richly endowed. The Swamiji is the CEO of the matha. He had to leave the flooded matha to preclude legal/religous consequences that would have ensued if he had stayed behind and attained a watery saayujya. Furthermore, if his dead body were not to be identified as was the case with so many, the samskara issue would arise. That would have encouraged Dr. A. Murthy to write Samskaara–Part 2. Gururaayara krupe has saved all Kannada readers.
We might also consider the fact that Amma Thunge wanted to personally cleanse the matha. All this was preordained. Those who lost their lives the pralaya blissfully died in the saanidhya of Guru Saarvabhoumaru.
I have visited Mantralaya many years ago. Despite being a Madhwa and getting “special” treatment as the father of someone I knew was the Dwarapalaka, nothing prepared me for the shocking discrimination.
At the entrance of the dining hall, men were asked to show the janivara and if “qualified” were allowed into a separate place away from the hoi polloi –or “ithare jana” as the Mutt folks are wont to refer to non-Madhwas.
I wonder why the rescue operations are not being conducted similarly:
Those WITHOUT the janivaara should get first priority and the others can stay on in the punya bhoomi, hanging on to the janivaara and dear life! As another post commented, I am sure the IAF did not extend the same service to other people who were stranded there as it did to the Mutt head.
Madi ante untouchability ante. I don’t believe that Palini is as naive as he (or she) comes across sounding here.
Anyone who has any pretensions of being a journalist, covering social issues no less, should know that some of the greatest caste discrimination in modern India happens at the hands of so called lower-castes/OBCs against people of supposedly even lower castes. Just walk into any village if you need any proof. Drawing attention to an annoying Brahmin practice (which mostly affects close family more than anyone else) and equating that with untouchability is the height of dishonesty and serves to only deflect attention from real discrimination.
@cool dude
Are you referring to untouchability or discrimination as the two things are different! Untouchability involves not allowing physical contact which is what Madi requires. However if a person does not want to be touched by some people and is ok with being touched by other, that is his or her right and you can’t tell that person by whom he/she should get touched.
For example,assume you are going to an interview or to an important meeting on your job site, early in the morning, just out of bath, in a perfectly white pressed shirt and on the street there is a beggar who was sleeping/sitting in the sewer who comes up to you starts begging. You will do everything in your power to avoid physical contact with the beggar. Is this discrimination or is it you practising untouchability?
As to your point of discrimination, yes i agree it is wrong to say that one can follow only one profession right from birth without giving him/her the right to try other occupations is wrong. But how is the swamy of a mutt telling someone not to touch them or come close to them depriving one of equal job opportunities or for that matter preventing them from achievements in life.
This is something i do not understand, as to why the anti-casteism group brings out problems of one practise and reasons of another practise and then decides to condemn just 1 group collectively.
I have seen more than enough of my share of marwaris/rajputs/sikhs/ intellectuals (non-madhwa-brahmins) practising what would fit your definition of discrimination/casteism/untouchability. And yet, here we stand, only brahmins are to blame, only brahmins follow this “caste” shame. I repeat, you are all HYPOCRITES!
@hosa belaku
You are right, that is discrimination on caste but does not prove it was because of Madi which is the practice in question here, which in your terminology should be leading to untouchability.
@hosa belaku
the fact that you got spl treatment because you knew someone shows an example of the typical indian mindset of using influence in every aspect of life.
Can you imagine needing influence to get admission to a good school for an education? or to get a job? This is what a lot of people face today including brahmins!
Not getting equal opportunities as they do not have enough influence or the right contacts! So tell me isn’t this discrimination?
@ Prajwal,
You are right. Availing any kind of special treatment is not correct. Sometimes when someone knows you they go out of their way to do things and unless it is a very extreme move like expensive gifts, one is not always in a position to decline. In my case, room reservation was made, extra enquiries about comfort came my way and I was also escorted towards the sanctum sanctorum. I just acted gracious and needless to add, paid money wherever it was mandated. I did not accept any undue favours or freebies, is all I can say.
The point I was making was that “there is something rotten in the state of Denmark.” For some it is the ‘madi achara’ that is repulsive; for others it is blatant discrimination (yes, including special treatment) –all in all, it is not a happy state of things.
I am sure all of us would have been happier had the Mutt head first overseen rescue operations to help some of the common people, before boarding the plane himself. That is the least one expects of any leader. Perhaps his failure to behave like one has highlighted other aspects of his er…lifestyle at this juncture.
Tagolrappa, ivra hygiene consciousness.. Go and have a closer look at holy shrines.. Especially of Hindus where all these priests maintain atmost madi.. (hygiene?) You will see rats, cockroaches, a hell lot of wax of the oil from the lamp covering all the place. It is just lit enough to make you feel you are on heaven in front of idol! Personal cleanliness is also not maintained. And educated people support ‘Madi’ and call it hygiene. Who are HYPOCRITES?
I agree targetting Brahmins alone is not proper, in the close neighborhood, we see only Brahmins doing this.. Sikh, Rajputs and Marwaris are not so famous! But we see Brahmins everywhere. So, almost everybody targets them.
@Prashant
1st addendum
Answers to each paras in points.
1. Intercourse. In Indian context it’s called marriage with a certificate.
2. Broadly thinking about education, there should be no money involved in education at all. All schools under govt. No distinction between mini skirts of Bishop cottons,DPS , Mallya aditi and salwar of govt schools
3. Correct. I never said only brahmin bashing- any sectarian indifference should be bashed.
4. AFAIK, Reservations are meant for downtrodden and economically unwell people, making it caste based in really a pity. For that matter
i. I remember the most uncultured anglicized Brahmin classmates of mine in my college days in terms of teasing a few cultured women and swearing and cursing, while so called SC/ST friends being cultured till today.
ii. I remember some poorest Brahmin friends who follow all rituals and still are most humble creatures. There lies their samskara.
This is just an observation .don’t take it as a phenomenon. I don’t blame anyone since the advent of so many things in media for the 90’s kids in India. But reservations will have no meaning if there is no money in education. It’s should be One Education for all than just Education for all.
5. Dowry I think spreads like share market price/gamble. Let’s say if some rich Lakshmi bhakta is old and has a single daughter and willingly gives it to his son in law his properties and goes to magroves for tapas , others get this information, and take it for their own advantage. Objectively, This happens because Brahmins were the ones who were looked ideal from many subdivisions and in this case it backlashed at them.
I heard there is some kind of Boli in north India for auctioning men during marriage. This is one of worst things of Krishna’s proclamation of Manu smriti and caste system anwant Gita to be
As Anonymous Guy has aptly written
“With time as people who have been at the receiving end of these cleverly built up structures get exposed to newer ideas from elsewhere some older ideas will have to find new meaning and relevance to survive.”
2nd addendum
1. No intention of mocking at you or anyone ,but power of being critical and a bit of humour.
2. For Marxism there are loads of articles around. I recommend http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/manifest.pdf
for a start. It’s well researched during industrial revolution, small and crisp. Never get into pseudo communism of India and Karatism practiced in WB.
3. I am unaware of my capabilities and knowledge of ‘isms’ just like Hanumantha. God forbid. Shantam Papam…. It’s complicated to say if I am completely selfless as level of consciousness is itself a function of many natural factors when in life, but I am assured in this context I am simply not getting anything out of it.
4.Well researched para. We are little humans. correct. Objectively answered below
i. To comment on people well repute – reputation by itself is relative.Hogalike = Honna shoola.
ii. wagging tongue – well I called spade a spade and I think kukkura is also a avatar of narayana if that was referred to.
iii.which knows no bounds – I think this need of hour to think without restrictions, being selfless.
iv.inherent contradictions – Indians are known for developing it till it’s unbearable. It’s time to remove them. Pralaya required.
v.temporal fluctuations – Narakke kai haktheeralri, swalpa samadhana . As I said already I never tried belittling anyone. But small things tend to remain small.
vi.assuming moral grounds – I think morals are simple , they cannot be assumed but achieved.
3rd Addendum:
@ prajwal
Neatly pressed shirt and sewer beggar? Let me bash the white collars now. If you are a brahmin you will try avoiding him which is what you wrote. If you were Brahman like Gandhi you would have helped him. If your interviewer is more interested in you touching his wife with clean hands and not listening to your social work then it’s your objectivity which made you to choose to get interviewed with that company.
The Madi of brahmins is old and extant, an antique practice followed by some old people. There is a new madi spanning across all classes from lower middle class to the nouvea rich class in urban india. How many times have any of the folks commenting here touched a sweeper on the street. How many times has the author Palani Swami touched a beggar or even an autorickshaw driver. I will not be surprised if you take a bath after that.
Madi and untouchability exists everywhere. It is now in new forms and much more pervalent than the old one of ancient India. When the beggars and Ennuchs come begging in Traffic signals the rich professionsals shut up the windows in their AC car and start humming the latest tune from radio city. This is also untouchability. Can you imagine a person in rags going around in Forum Mall or Bangalore central. No way they would be allowed. Not because some Manusmriti says so or some such thing. They have what is called as Rights of Admission reserved. There is a clear seggregation of classes in all the hotels, eateries and public places. Go around and see Bangalore or any city in India, look at the roadside eatieries where they sell chitranna, idly and dosa for low class labourers. How many rich professionals go there. This is the new reality and Palani Swami and ilk should write about these things.
@Hayagriva,
Exactly it’s all about building castes, classes , cities ,capitals -capitalism which has resulted in these.
But I really pity your ignorance of Manusmriti and your defending of richer class and lower middle class. Please read this.
http://www.friends4education.org/scholarship/0Main/html/dalit_facts.htm
If we are developing a class of rag pickers to maintain a mall then stop such malls. If someone is not social in a AC car stop AC cars.Put all AC cars one side and I am sure you will get a AC metro running along length and breadth of the city and available to all travellers round the clock.
The Whites used to enslave only Blacks to clean their toilets.
Now atleast in Britain, atleast as per my knowledge the middle class clean their own houses with machines, since hiring such labourers is very very expensive – just to discourage it.
Urbanization is not lecherous behaviour , it’s for highly social and civilized behaviour. I see the same conscience in some of highly qualified famous IISc professors who travel to IISc in cycle and cleaning their own houses.
In the same way we need to stop copying west saying that we are still developing and try defending menace. Maintaining regional balance and socialism is nothing but dealing with such issues of stopping migration, corruption, classification, developing every part which is inhabitable and giving respect, food and education to every citizen as basic amenity.
Hayagrivha,
Your post is thought-provoking.
But Churumuri does write about new realities and old ones.
e.g. see:
http://churumuri.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/why-manjamma-wont-go-back-to-bombay-again/
So Palani Swami and ilk may be up to the job.
The issues you bring up are problems in our society. Lack of resources, mindless breeding, increased life span not backed with increase in efficiency, people violently demanding their denied right, excessively discriminating against a group etc. are all problems we need to solve over the next few generations. Sure. And these may be more immediate problems for us than madi, untouchability and caste based discrimination.
But it does not preclude discussing, shining a light and studying old and extant practices. Some of these practices and mindsets may even be driving or justify the new problems. If the problem is the ingrained need to band ourselves into castes – we need to find a way to reconcile this with the new realities of democracy, the constitution and the lowest of castes demanding justice and chance to join the mainstream now.
The social scientists, behavioral scientists, geneticists etc. who should be advising the government on these matters cannot look at data selectively (this is a joke since we know how our politicians and systems currently work – but in the next two generations or so, this may not be a joke as people become more aware and vote in more astute politicians who think beyond narrow needs).
One can say discrimination etc. is hard-wired into our genes – but again that is up for another debate, preferably including scientists and philosophers who have data on such issues. And anyway that too is no excuse – if violence is hard-wired into our genes – why have democracy and rules. We should accept a problem and separate it from finding justifications to keep breaking agreed on laws.
Countries in the West and elsewhere seem to have recognized this and have taken some (if token) measures to at least try and reconcile our innate hard-wired nature with moral concepts of democracy, justice and giving at least a chance to everyone irrespective of their birth. This is a practical matter which effects all our us and our future. Part of it comes from recognizing and relaxing some of the more archaic and possibly by-now-illogical practices instead of propagating them.
It is finally choices we need to make – and for that we need to discuss the relevance of what we practice.
@raaja
Being a brahmin that I am, I do not follow untouchability and I have interacted more than enough in soceity to know it for myself. So there stands your conception of all brahmins following untouchability and casteism shunned. If you need more examples to prove this antithesis to your theory of “BRAHMINS FOLLOW CASTEISM AND UNTOUCHABILITY AND ALL THE SOCIAL EVILS THAT ONE READS IN A SCHOOL SOCIAL STUDIES TEXT BOOK”, I ll be more than happy to provide case studies which “bash” not “white collars” but prejudiced people with preconceived notions such as yourself.
About your reply to me, how my interview example got you thinking about whether I will be touching my interviewer’s wife says more about your way of thinking than it does about my Brahmin pratices or my beliefs.
Even under the ASSUMPTION (just to humour you) that my interviewer is worried about my cleanliness before touching his wife, it says nothing about my obective selection of a company for which I choose to interview as you see, 1 does not get to choose his/her interviewer when applying for a job. Thus, your retort is incoherent and inconsistent (with your thought is suppose cos I sure as hell do not understand what you tried to point at with that comment). On a side note, it made me wonder if you have ever given/taken an interview in your life!
Don’t give me examples of MKG as I am not one who holds him in high stead. Also don’t give me examples of people from the past.
If you want to cite examples, do so from your own life or from the present. ‘cos as far as I am concerned you haven’t mentioned what you would do in the scenario presented.
But then again, if one were to use what appears to be your convoluted thought process as a basis for extrapolation, I suppose you will be thinking of your interviewer’s wife/mother/sister/daughter or whichever relation that captures your fantasy before going to an interview.
And lastly, if you are going to a job interview, expect the interviewer to pay attention to your professional skills AND your presentation skills (which includes presenting yourself) before expecting the interviewer to listen to your social work/activities!
*G3S*
you couldn’t have said it better! i 100 per cent agree with you.
@prajwal
I know the rush of young blood in which you wrote. I respect it too.
But still being objective I find nothing wrong in what you wrote and it would be unfair not to answer for one para where exactly you wanted to know about my fantasy.
Yes I do like/ love/ fantasize to work with a individual/institution who has professionalism and moral objectivism and culture.
How does professionalism come at large?
If he has the courage to protect culture and stand by morals
And by culture I have always had this notion and strong belief that a woman ( any relation you named ) who is nearest to nature and creation is what represents any culture and a man is the one who protects it , ultimately being subjective for the life on earth since we all come from womb and are mortals.
It’s pure bliss to work with such a person.
Unfortunately majority of oppurtunist competitive white collars are soiled, and hence the probability of touchability becomes more as Mills quote it as they sell their personality with a smile. More than the verse Udyogam purusha lakshanam , they tend to misuse the perverse Shayaneshu Veshya . We don’t have any shortage of ideas/facts like
Avaravara Bhaavakke and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parva_(novel).
There is always the minority who get nailed like Jesus for taking sins of others. But when the balance is broken, a Hitler will be born.
On a side note , yes I have given interviews and all these things of presentation,english, accent, pressed collars , jesus jockeys ,marketing, selling , partying, touching “neat clean fair” ones , handshake , hugging , putting price for everything, higher incomes, dating allowances etc will look good for only being poster boys for a short time .Without churumuri and likewise it will be comfortable though.
You don’t like people from the past? If you want to read current/future you need to observe or learn which again leads you to read past.
I still recommend you to read “My Experiments With Truth” thoroughly with classic English word meanings and after that any newspaper or Jaswant’s / Khushwant’s version. Vaishnava Janato peer paraye….. the great soul has taken all his time to just uplift their disorder and not false pride specifically for casteists.
@raaja
I did not say i do not like people from the past nor did i say that I do not observe or learn from it. I said that I do not hold MKG, “the father of our nation” in very high stead.
ANd i said do not quote examples from the past cos that is the past! the circumstances then and now are different. The circumstances in your life and the circumstances in my life are vastly different from the ones in medieval india or for that matter dure MKG’s time, i.e. the freedom struggle.
I have read the above mentioned literature by MKG, but now that u mention it i will look for Khushwant singh version of it.
Now wasn’t this so much more practical and more useful. You shared new information with me thereby allowing me to learn something new.
Again, i cannot help it if you like to fantasize about working at a place with professionalism and morals, but I still do not understand your connection to the interviewer’s wife!
Protect Culture and morals I would disagree. Cos as Girish Karnad says, Culture is a fluid concept and keeps changing with time. So deciding on what needs to protected and what needs to let go will vary with time and with individual choice.
For example, if you ask an old person, they will say we need to protect the indian culture of women not exposing themselves indecently. If you ask a women’s lib activist who has actually studied the history of india in to much more depth than an average person, she/he might say one needs to protect the freedom and security for women that existed before the turkish/mughal/afghans invasions. It is also a historical fact that women also used to wear janivaara’s and had the freedom of covering only their genitals and not their breasts until a certain point of time and could also move about without being accosted/eveteased/harassed on the streets.
SO now, who is to decide as to which of the two examples of the above mentioned “CULTURE” is to be protected and which is not. I can definitely identify a lot of women who will agree that women should have the liberty to wear skimpy clothes, drink, party late night etc. without having to worry about safety.
Take indian art for example which also forms culture. Even the traditional arts have morphed and changed with time and are no longer what they were when they were conceived. So what are you protecting?
There are a lot more examples, but i think i make my point clear, you cannot protect culture cos it is a fluid concept.
As to minorities being made bakras, if you look at brahmins as a caste/group they form about 2% of the population or a lesser number. That makes us the minority and hence we should be given spl status. But unfortunately spl status is accorded to SC ST OBC , minoritites like muslims christians which if i m not mistaken is around mor than 20% of our population. in the mathematics that i have learnt 2<20.
On a side note, there are rumours/discussions about Jains getting spl status in Karnataka as a minority gorup. What a joke!
So u might as well take every single sect of hindu, vaishnawas, shaivaites, brahmins, vysyay, shudras, kshatriyas, followers of each diff gods as a diff group and accord spl rules to every group individually. Why club one set into an entity called hindus and segregate them into subgroups for comfort of a blame game? Or you can merge all of them with just one set of rules.
How do you justify aiming to eradicate untouchability/casteism by providing reservations/spl statuses/ by nitpicking on individual practces of individual groups? This is almost 70% in TN.. Brahmins were driven out on a violent scale which amounts to genocide. Now isn't that oppression of brahmins? So brahmins are also a caste that have been oppressed and hence should be given spl status and spl rights and reservations. What say?
@prajwal
The very thing of calling dressing a culture is itself wrong. A simple example – goto Dharmasthala and look at Digambara Jains . I have seen stark naked monks walking on streets.
I was referring to Nehru with pressed shirt, touching Edwina’s heart with interviewer being MountaBaton Lord – first major white collar with Winston Churchill setting question paper in America.
Why do you consider touch as only physical , Ok ,it’s natural for young people to read too much between lines :) Kalla Prajwal.
Woman liberation and fluid dynamics are all fine but ultimately for that also they have to be with nature . Who decides? Can we mortals by writing how much they can socialize etc??
There is a lot of difference when Arundhati Nag decides and when Gauri Lankesh decides for women – I took their names just to display diversity. Now don’t start war for this.
Inlands, Forests , Coasts, Deserts, Plains, Mountains,Polars, every part have their own culture and rituals.
One example goes like if a girl wears mini skirts just because she wants liberation and thinks it’s her culture , a boy would like to similarly display his culture??
Who can you subdue here? or allow both of them and watch what happens. How much of freedom are people capable of? Complicated !! :)
Whatever you set rules it should be thought with free and open mind and just because democracy is there in a developed world with 100 education does not mean we can adopt that when people here dont have food.
The problem comes when one markets / forces their culture on others which nature itself destroys after a time. For example some great Ulla Khan from desert may come and profess all to shed their glans and get as many converted (India is Islam no3 now) to Islam. But ultimately you can see a vast difference in culture of desert muslims with forest muslims here .
Abdul Kalam , Rahman, Nisar Ahmed – they never look like Ulla Khans. This is entropy or fluidity or Jangama and not the fluidity of fucking neighbourhood girls as they are flowers of garden for the sake of sexual equality.
About others as brahmins/ jains being castes and reservations, the sects divisions are itself a waste since I have already written a length about it.
mantralaya is the only brahmin mutt where hindus cutting across caste lines visit and find solace. rigid ristrictions which can be seen in other mutts takes a back seat here.
Two questions. Why is this man being rescued by Indian Air Force? Why did the media put out so many stories about this man being rescued? He is but one human being, but there are a crore Kannadigas out there who have been submerged in water for three to four days, and if they are and their loved ones are alive, are now left with destroyed houses, lost belongings, snuffed out livelihoods and with no hopes whatever. The despicable Indian culture of placing one human being over the other, like YSR over the others, and this saffron-clad parasite over the millions who continue to survive among foul water, dead animals, flies, mosquitoes, maggots, forget about lack of good food, clean drinking water, a dry and warm bed, non-leaking roof, electricity, what must they think when see this buffoon being rescued? What did he do to discover this special treatment? Cure for AIDS? The blood boils when parasites get preferential treatment over hard-working annadaatas (farmers) to whom the same helicopters throw food as if they were dogs!
“to whom the same helicopters throw food as if they were dogs!”
– Is there a quicker way to disburse food to lakhs whose accesses are cut off by destroyed roads and flood water?
On the question of virulence against Swamiji’s rescue, one is curious to know if hatred for him exists in the hearts of these farmers.
One also does not know if the Swamiji would have struck down both AP & KA govts with a thunderbolt if they had not rescued him.
Most likely some devotee or non-devotee would have rescued him and not caused some websites so much heartburn.
Dr Rameshagaaru, how many other mutts you have visited? Catholicity…preached where…please introspect.
@ Palini
I read all your posts and was in an assumption that you are a responsible blogger! Dam, you let me down.
Grow up dude…
gone are those days! Get your basics right. Madi doesn’t mean one doesnt touch or interact from a person outside the cast. Its a pure practice of Hygiene. Those days when some people (we have examples) who would seldom put in an effort to understand what it meant, were forced to follow these stuff for their personal good.
Mr. “I can point my fingers too”, you practice madi too every single day and the sad part is it that you don’t just get the point.
To remind you
Having Break-Fast only after you have had a shower is also “MADI”
I am dam sure you have an explanation for AP govt not sending 10 choppers and bringing in all the forces to rescue the flood affected as they did to find a lost chopper of CM.
If he has a responsibility and followers and has to be treated so, why not this guy.
I chose to ignore, but had to voice out.
Call Me Hypocrite!!
i am born in a madhwa brahmin community.. we were eight children and
my grand mother who brought all us up practiced madi. she will shout at
us if we touch her., but even at the age of eighty she will cook madily for us. tremendrous love and affection she gave us. same way, in MANTHRALAYA, WHETHER
caste discrimination is there or not, thousands of poor of all communities
get at least one standard meal there.. are our politicians the world over not practicising discrimination,. Those who condemn, please see and
observe the daily rituals of mutt heads and the sense of sacrifice and
self control they practice. during aradhana days, they get up 3 o clock am and eat their only meals at around 3.30 p..m. they don’t wear the
holy thread because that is binding. practice hindu religion to whicheve
caste/community you maybelong, then comment on it.
To Cool Dude –
This propaganda to denigrate Hinduism is going on perennially, but your forecast of this way of life dying because of ‘casteism’ — Brahman sprang forth from Creator’s face, Sudra from his legs, .. – has not materialised, which is because the malpractices of the varna-vyavastha* have always come under check of spiritual leadership in any religiin, but Hinduism, being a universal-eternal code open for all mankind, systematically, and boldly, codified and proclaimed it for adoption. [system of fourfold categorisation in nature – not division by man – due to errant elements have always been exposed by those who understood and respected the system which is embedded in nature due to inherent qualities of :
-tamas [dullness, indolence, ineetia],
-rajas [material dynamism, speedy or excited activity not necessarily well-considered], and
– sattva [‘inward’ inclination to the spirit which is in a constant state of bliss, driving matter’s (flesh’s and blood’s) energy potential into peaceful and constructive ways to benefit all ecology) —
in different ‘proportions’ in different individuals (humans, as the highest evolved among creatures).
* Varna-vyavastha means, literally, colour-related system – in which the colour is the ‘pigment of imagination’ with which each individual is coloured (painted) by the three qualities or properties described above. The colour is NOT the skin colour used by Western scholars (mostly missionaries hiding behind mask of erudite scholarship) beginning around the 17th century – black being that of ‘Dravidians’ their invention of the original inhabitants of India, and ‘white’ or wheat complexion being that of an invading ‘race’ from East Europe or Central Europe, the former being made ‘daasyu-s’ by the latter with their fast-speeding cavalry and hordes of warriors.
These scholars, being illiterate in Sanskrit – which spread and became the source language for a predominant proportion of Europeans and a major proportion of Asians – were refused as unworthy of being educated in it unless and until they gave up eating of cow’s flesh as their food merely because it helped grow flesh and tickled their palate) – and wanted to get some kind of indigenous stamp of approval from half-learned or downright fake Sanskrit scholars of India, for their plans to convert an entire population to their own pet religion, through propaganda using denugratory methods.