Y.P. Rajesh in the Indian Express:
“Maharashtra’s undying desire for 865 villages in Karnataka’s border districts of Belgaum, Bidar, Gulbarga and Karwar, as well as for Belgaum city itself, defies logic. True, there are Marathi speakers in these districts just as there are Kannada speakers on the other side and Gujarati speakers in Mumbai, Hindi speakers in Vidarbha, and so on.
“The reorganisation of states in the 1950s may not have been a perfect job like so many others and the debate over carving out smaller states from existing mega-states remains a volatile issue as Telangana so recently demonstrated. Why would Maharashtra want to absorb these districts, and add to its burden of governing an already unwieldy state? It has hardly done a great job of ensuring equitable development across its regions such as Marathwada, Vidarbha and the northern districts.
“In fact, the state that was once India’s industrial powerhouse is staring at an uncertain future. If language were the sole criteria for these villages to be a part of Maharashtra, then the same argument could be applied to Mumbai as well. Even at the time of the reorganisation of states, the Marathi population of Bombay was around 43 per cent. Today it is estimated at under 35 per cent. At neither time was it a majority but does that mean the protectors of Marathi pride will allow the debate over to whom or where Mumbai belongs, be reopened”
Read the full article: Big issues, petty politics
“Why would Maharashtra want to absorb these districts, and add to its burden of governing an already unwieldy state”
It’s the same as asking Pakistan why it wants Kashmir and add to it’s burden …..
I think Narayana Murthy should be given powers to decide on the issue. We can see where his global principles will take him specially when he has campus in both Pune and Mysore.
On the other hand if we donate all districts to neighbours and attain nirvana, our own fight against corruption will end and we can permanently get rid of the inefficiencies of yeddi reddi gowdas.
Over that karnataka will become like greece from kaveri to narmada and now towards salvation – the golden civilization which we all can spread out to various corners of world and propagate virtues of good governance.
Shiv Sena and MNS have zero stakes in Karnataka. These are the parties which are responsible for the Belgaum dispute. They don’t care if they lose votes in Karnataka because they have no presence here.
Congress and BJP have high stakes on either side of the border – so therefore under their respective central leadership’s directives, they have no option but to put a lid on high rhetoric and drama.
The key to the border dispute is to handle Shiv Sena and MNS. Any creative solutions here?
Y. P. Rajesh has already suggested one. Take away Marathi minority Mumbai from Maharashtra and make it a union territory. Will MNS and SS accept it?
As I always said, Mumbai falls in Konkan area, and Shivsena/MNS claim that it is a Marathi preserve is ridiculous on all counts.
And it isn’t a bad idea to have All big cities being made into a seperate state. Afterall their populations are reaching that of small states anyway.. It’ll help in better governance and responsiveness.
@Harkol,
I don’t think converting the cities into separate states will be a good idea.
Because of these reasons,
1. once a separate state there will be less resources in terms of available land, power supply, water supply etc. The city state would have to rely on the surrounding state for these resources.
2. The growth model being followed in the country right now can be called as “growth pole” model. Make a place as growth pole and the revenue generated from the growth pole can be used for development activities of the underdeveloped parts of the state. If the growth pole is taken away from the state, the remaining part will go slow on development owing to lack of state revenues.
Once in a while babalog CMs also come up with sensible suggestions. But I don’t understand why Ashok Chavan should stop at Belguam? What about Bidar, Gulbarga and other Marathi speaking areas? All these places should be made UTs, with independent Administrators, Lt. Governors, ghoda, gadi, palaki and whole works…..
>it isn’t a bad idea to have All big cities being made into a seperate state
India desperately requires 25 more states and 25 more state capitals. Reddys are wasting their time with uncultured old mysore area people, they should join hands with Jagan and demand a separate Rayalu Seema state with Hospet as its capital. Vidhan Soudha can be permanently converted into a sleeping quarters, i.e. rent it to Sheraton.
Going by Mr.Chavan’s logic, Karnataka should claim Hosur from TN, Kasargod from Kerala and give KR Puram to TN. Karnataka should also claim Sholapur, Miraj and other districts of Maharashtra where people who speak Kannada outnumber Marathi manoos.
Simple Mian,
>Mumbai from Maharashtra and make it a union territory. Will MNS and SS accept it?
why fight with imaginary windmills? Congress -NCP has a majority in the state assembly, they can pass a resolution, will they do it?
Dynamically calculate the linguistic strength every 6 months and merge/demerge, redraw borders every 6 months. Dumb people, dumb solutions. Works well.
… and Bangalore should go to Tamil Nadu, and Delhi should go to Punjab.
Even in the 70s, there was a vocal protest and calls for an apology in the Vidhana Soudha in Bangalore when MGR, during a debate in the Tamil Nadu assembly, said something like, “After all, Bangalore is an extension of Madras!”
Today’s reality is that state reorganization based on language is futile due to cosmopolitan urban areas.
That’s why (despite what this writer suggests) Maharashtra seems to have given up its claim over Belgaum, instead suggesting Belgaum be declared a Union Territory.
First, the central govt (or is it supreme court?) should draw a line, and strictly tell all the states to mind their own business (managing their states).
But politicians just want to create problems and keep them alive as long as they get; they dont want these problems solved.
Secondly Maraathi manoos of the border areas should shut th emouth of the these MS politicians immediately. And that will never happen.
M.Peshva:
> Bangalore should go to Tamil Nadu
Really? On what basis.
I can understand the call for it being a union territory, but Tamil nadu? why?
Priyank,
Let me butt in….
>I don’t think converting the cities into separate states will be a good idea.
Look at Singapore, look at Hongkong. Delhi is a parasite don’t look at it….
>available land, power supply, water supply etc.
Buy (or import) these at the market rates from other states (if there is a surplus)
>the remaining part will go slow on development owing to lack of state revenues.
This assumption is wrong, on the contrary I think hinterlands support state capitals and they have surplus cash/food/power/water
we can have a new adage on the lines of ‘nero was …’ ..here it goes
‘ bummers were sleeping while Belgaum was burning’
I am for declaring the entire Bangalore Metropolitan Region as a UT. Similarly declare Hyd and Mumbai as UTs.
Create separate states of the erstwile Old Mysore, Uttara Karnataka and Kalyana Karnataka with new state captials at Mysore, Belgaum, Gulbarga.
Create states of Telangana, Andhra and RayalSeema. UT of Hyd would ideally be the captial of both Telangana and Andhra. create a new capital for RayalSeema at Tirupathi
On the contrary, it would be difficult to consider a UT tag for Chennai more because of its demographics unlike a Bangalore or Mumbai or Hyd
Daily Bread
Please understand the drift of what I said.
I was satirically proposing a ‘if’ theory, to point out the abusrdity of Maharashtra’s claim on Belgaum.
Surely you should have got it.
Do you have proof of the numbers that Marathi population in Mumbai was < 50% in 1960 ?
Let law take it course
Another case of Politicians stroking the egos of people over issues which do not address poverty, unemployment, & price rise.
Seems like we gained Independence only to endlessly create divisions amongst ourselves.
Mysore Peshavan,
Thank you for your very helpful comment. If Maharastra has given up its claims on Belgaum then by the same logic they have no business asking Belgaum, to be declared a Union Territory:) Your comment reminds me of a well-known Kannada proverb, “Dakshanyakkae basiraadhranthe!”
Sawant:
>Let law take it course
Matter isn’t that of law, it is that of administration. Ideally, the people of an area should be asked how they should be administered within the framework of Indian Constitution. If they choose to be governed as a seperate state, it should be conceded.
I suspect, Bombayites would like to be a seperate state than Maharastra.. I know I’d like Bangalore to be a seperate state than Karnataka.
Purely for administrative reasons.
Ok..
Lets ‘re-goranize’ everything…*Provided* the people of that region ask for it…
Apply this criteria and i think all this crap about “x goes to y”, “a goes to b” vanishes in thin air!!!
People of Belgaav and the mentioned areas ARE demanding this…That’s precisely the difference…Forget about what SS, MNS does out here in Maharashtra…That’s politics, for sure. They didnt do anything when they were in power both in Maha and Centre!
Also, Marathi politicians are to blame for this mess. What Mr chavan or anyone else says doesnt matter to me…really, they are a pathetic lot!
Why are the “seema-vasiyas” asking for being made a part of Maharashtra?
Over the years, they have been systematically alienated by the K’taka govt. That’s the issue…Be just to them, let them preserve their marathi identity and they might very well be ready to be in K’taka.
Their issue is not that they cant write “dist Belgav, State Maharashtra”..
Issue is the treatment meted out. Respect the resolution passed by a body of democratically elected local body…Instead of dissolving it!
True, many states have border towns that should have been with the adjoining state on Linguistic basis. Maharashtra has many such towns along the AP, MP border. Ever heard of demand/ agitation/ movement of the sort of “Maharashtra Ekikaran Samiti”?
Maharashtra is particularly generous when it comes to respecting other languages. Otherwise, you wont find Tamil/Telegu/Kannada/Hindi/Urdu Medium Schools in places like Pune operating with state grants!
As for demands for the state of Vidarbha, that’s a fundamentally different issue. Issue is development, not language. Even if Vidarbha becomes a reality, it will be the state with “Marathi” as Raj-bhasha.
@joblessenggstud:
Your statements are Ignorance+Arrogance personified..
About Miraj:
1) Miraj is not a district.Its a taluka place and comes under Sangli district.
2) Since when did Miraj become a kanadi place dude? Are u out of ur mind?? OR u simply picked a random border town?
3) Last heard, there was a successful agitation to bring Miraj Junction railway station under Western railways. Previously, it was with SC (hubli) and there were numerous complaints!
4) Take it from someone who belongs there.
What hog shit is this.
Are we just a land of partitions? Why are we so cultural conscious? We see how the world itself has been reduced to a global village. When will we rise from petty differences and show the strength of our unity?
India is on the verge of something big..we can dominate the globe…with our natural resources, vast young population, and firm basic infrastructure.
The least we need now is petty fighting. If religious differences were not enough, now we have caste based differences and state demarcations to fight about.
Political parties indulging in this should be strictly stopped, by the administration or by the public at large(by voting them to zilch)
My fellow bloggers should refrain from stating which city goes to which state. On the contrary we should think of merging into one strong state and a strong two party democracy. This is the way forward.
Arrow,
>Create separate states of the erstwile Old Mysore, Uttara Karnataka and Kalyana Karnataka with new state captials at Mysore, Belgaum, Gulbarga.Create states of Telangana, Andhra and RayalSeema.
Aa Ramanu bitta banavu yendu..Bulls eye!!!
And here is a new convert;
http://www.dnaindia.com/opinion/column_new-cities-for-old_1409803
…Dharavi will be a UT with Tamil as the official language…and has a good parallel economy to support…
Tanveer,
>state demarcations to fight about.
More states and redrawing of administrative boundaries is a fight worth fighting for in assembly halls, parliament, tv studios & Churmuri( but strictly not on the streets of India). This is a rozi, roti, bizli, sadak, paani, education, quality of life, etc. issue.
Ask Paul the Octopus which state Belgaum belongs to.
There I go and trivialise one more issue. Simple sir will be very angry with me :-( .
Shishir bhau,
Namaskar. You write..
‘Over the years, they have been systematically alienated by the K’taka govt. That’s the issue…Be just to them, let them preserve their marathi identity and they might very well be ready to be in K’taka.’
If this is factually correct (ie the Marathi speakers are being systematically alienated and are finding it mighty difficult to preserve their Marathi identity), then it’s patently wrong and not a good situation.
Please elaborate further and tell us how you have reached this conclusion. Otherwise I am afraid it ends up as rhetoric rather than solid fact and thereby wouldn’t contribute much to the resolution of the issue.
Here are some points if true could substantiate your view.
1. Marathi schools are not allowed to operate and thereby folks who woul like to learn via Marathi medium are being deprived of their right.
2. Marathi newspapers, channels, cinema, media are banned in Belagavi. Ok, if not banned, the state makes it quite difficult to access.
3. There is discrimination on the basis of language as far as Govt. services are concerned – for eg. No land registration, sale deed etc allowed if you are a Marathi or it is made cumbersome.
4. Marathi cultural activities – such as Sahitya sammelans, tamasha, Rangamanch – etc are strongly discouraged and in the worst disrupted.
There are several other potentially discriminating behaviour that can be listed. But the above may suffice to get the drift methinks.
So it would be nice if you could mention the ‘systematic’ way in which Marathi speakers are alienated.
While you do this, it would be nice if you dwell on establishing a pattern of sustained hostility rather than on stray cases . There are goons in every region, language and any other social grouping so let’s not give them excess weight-age.
If there is indeed discrimination and a strong case of Marathi speakers being treated as second-class citizens, then I would say Karnataka has a weak case and a bad record.
@Doddi Buddi: Maharashtra has no claims on Belgavi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgaum_border_dispute#Excerpts_of_the_Mahajan_Report
@shishir: call me arrogant or ignorant i dont care. as long as parochial dimwits like you exist in this country it wont progress. whats the guarantee that belgavi will see development when it becomes part of Maharashtra? any proof that Maharashtra has progressed a lot? If you so worried about marathi ppl, go save Mumbai first. Nimma thatte alli ile biddhidhe. Adanna nodi modalu.
Specific instances…Sure..there are plenty…Accumulated over a period of 50 years….
The reason I didn’t elaborate was becuase that was not my line of argument.
My line of argument is simple:
The people there want that to happen. And that makes the difference! And that’s what makes it unique from other ‘a should be in b’, ‘x should go to y’ examples cited in the article and comments.
And by people I dont mean 5-8% of the population or a mob incited/ lured…
The demand has been put forward by overwhelming number of people residing there… And that has been done for 50 years now….This volume and length of time can’t be sustained without Genuine grievances.
The Municipal Corporation passes almost unanimously motions expressing their wish to be made a part of maharashtra…So do other local bodies in the concerned areas…Isn’t that a sort of referendum??
And how does the government respond? It dissolves the Democratically Elected body! Isn’t this ONE instance sufficient?
Of course, let the Law give its verdict. And everyone will have to accept it, that’s for sure.
The reason to post on a “Swalpa Sihi, Swalpa Spicy” blog was to highlight the most important point that everyone here seems to be missing:
THE WISHES OF THE PEOPLE
That’s what should matter in a Democracy. Rather, that’s what should be respected.
Screw politicians, screw their agendas.
And yes, If dharavi asks for it to be declared a Tamil speaking UT, so be it. But I don’t think that will happen. Also, it wont be the case with bangolore/ Kasargod/ Sholapur/ Miraj “District” et al :D
Peace.
Shishir,
Kithi chaan bolthe thumi
>3) Last heard, there was a successful agitation to bring Miraj Junction railway station under Western railways. Previously, it was with SC (hubli) and there were numerous complaints
I am curious, have you noticed any significant improvement after this change?
make a comparison between belagaavi and districts on the other side of Maha. Any idiot will agree the kind of underdevelopment the districts of Maha have been subjected to. Or just see the state transport corp buses of both the states!!! If people want Mana, why did Kinekar, Patil, Digambar, More not win any elections after they raked up this issue in 2005??? @ Shishir???
Take out newspapers, including Marathi ones, for the last one year and see how many times unrest has been reported? It is only when these stupid MES guys want some coverage the issue crops up. Sometimes the inefficient RR Patil talks non-sense. There are bunch of jokers in SS, Athavles and now the new kid on the block, RT’s MNS. It is only because of the not-so-aggressive nature of Kannadigas that they could get away by tearing the yellow-red flags.Had it been Andhraites, Tamils, Gujs or MP, few would have got killed!!! (may be this is the reason for Manoos to target Kannadigas)
I have seen people mingling easily and business going on as usual. There is harmony and each and every shop (owned by Ks and Ms) have boards in both languages. Lot of marathi movies. During my interaction with people, I found they do not care about this issue and they feel Mah is only creating an issue out of htis. It is only the handy work of MES and the losers in SS and MNS. It is a ploy by the Govt of Mah to divert from its inefficiencies. A state with over a lakh and half crore budget deficit should not waste resources in flogging a dead horse like the 800+villages issue.
@DailyBread
Yes, there has been significant improvement for sure! Last checked, I didn’t the irritated look I used to get when I asked “Mahalaxmi Platform teen war yenar ahe ka ho??” …Besides, its much cleaner, better managed (a lot of room is there for improvement, still)..Atleast, we haven’t witnessed a repeat agitation to go back under SC. :D
Btw…I mistakenly said Miraj is now under Western. It is with Central (Pune) Division. My bad…
@xxxdude,
You still don’t get my argument…Check my second post if u can…
As for being parochial, I am as parochial as you are…Atleast, I tried highlighting a dimension not discussed in the posts…rather than if x->y, then a->b , c->d…
@ Anshuman Patel : Who told u all the bull-s**i tat u hav written. Hav U ever stayed in Belgaum… I being a resident of Belgaum don’t agree at all. We want peace & not fighting. We the people want to stay in KARNATAKA & we hav informed it via the elections in which MES hardly won a seat.
Rodricx
If you notice carefully, Anshuman Patel has liberally used, “If-then-else” construction in his response. So on that account you must spare him. Thanks.
Shishir bhau,
>>The people there want that to happen.
Your argument is predicated on the belief that majority of people of Belagavi want to hitch their wagon to M’rashtra.
Is that an incontrovertible fact? What is the basis for this? Any referendum that has taken place recently? I guess not.
In the absence of any such exercise, I believe you draw this conclusion from the fact that MES folks have won the majority in Belagavi’s Municipal corporation in many elections held so far. Does it conclusively prove a significant majority (least 51% but would say 60-65% given the sensitive issue) prefer Maharashtra over Karnataka? I am not sure as I don’t have the data on voting %, number of votes collectively polled by MES candidates etc to reach that conclusion. If you have that, please provide it.
(Having said that, you and I and pretty much every one of us know how elections are fought and won in our nation. Wouldn’t it be little naive to equate the results with an overwhelming endorsement of the sentiment of the people to play ball with M’rashtra? ie all the voters of MES voted for its candidates solely on this single point?)
>>Screw politicians, screw their agendas.
When you make the statement above and then go on to say that Corporation and local bodies have repeatedly passed myriad resolutions to merge with Maharashtra, isn’t there a confusion or discord in thought? What do these bodies consist of? Local politicians? Do they have an agenda? Yes, apparently they have. So should we screw them and their agenda and live in peace? I would think so.
I respect your emotions and strong view that you hold regarding the wish of the people. However it is prudent to verify it via a comprehensive referendum. Till that happens, it would be wise to keep the peace.
Rodricx,
Anna, koncha odi amele dharalavagi nimma salahe soochane kodi.
DB,
Thnx:)
AP,
Boss, when there are people fighting for Kashmiriyat we will also have people fighting for Belgaviyat. I don’t see anything wrong in what Shishir is saying or doing.
What’s the point of borders, languages or any other group identity when half the people crawl on the road? Jingoism of this kind makes me wonder languages and borders are there for us or we are there for it?
marathi people… want to rule india. they beat biharis ,northys, torture. some marathis are good.
shivsena is waste. dividing country.
***
boss,why bangalore to tn?
no boss.
sachin is world class plyer .
for him only they(shiv sena) dont give respect.
i will not give respect to shiv sena.
“the Marathi population of Bombay was around 43 per cent. Today it is estimated at under 35 per cent. At neither time was it a majority”
that’s wrong fact. both times Maharashtrians are a majority in the city, unless your definition of majority means more than 50% of the population.
agreed that the linguistic re-organisation of the states wasn’t perfect, but karnataka government is violating human rights in the city of belgaon. atleast that should stop.
Please read this article wt the ppl of Bgm want & den continue.
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100725/jsp/7days/story_12723285.jsp
This is wt the ppl o Belgaum want – PROGRESS
@Kannadiga
Please no direct offence!
I think the purpose of blog is different!
And please be specified! The every attackers were marathi but every marathi is not an attacker! So please respect us! We are the commen marathi people who are getting blemed due to few people!
वर सांगितले आहे की मुंबई मधे हिंदी बोलणारे फार आहेत तर ते गुजरात मधे जायालाहवे परन्तु तिथील लोक खुश आहेत परन्तु कर्नाटकात आम्हाला काहीच लाभत नाही आम्ही इथे जेल मधे रहल्यासराखे वाटते तर आम्ही कसे करायचे ? तुम्ही पहा १० वर्षा पठिनागेकुठे काय डेवलोपमेंट जहाले आहे आता हे अपाला हक्कसांगत येत आहेत ? आहो तुम्ही महानता बरोबर आहे पण शिक्षनाला पण इथे काहीच मिळत नाही मी १२ वि ते १५ वि पर्यंत कितेक फी माफ़ी स्कोलेर्शिप फॉर्म बारले तर ते का आले नाही कारन आम्ही मराठी आहोत आपला रेप्ल्याची वाट पाहत आहे
75% population speak kannada in bengaluru………I think chennai should be made unionT because telugu speaking popultion is around 45%……so tamil is waste……and this people speak from nose not from mouth….vanga…ponga.fuck tamil……kannada is suprem …….u wil get beatings in benguluru..if tamilians talk….
Mr.Y.P.Rajesh. Belgaum was under Bombay presidency and later on linguistic basis but there were marathi speaking people more compared to kannada ones. And in some villages the census was not conducted only… and after these villages came to karnataka, the karnataka government tried to impose kannada forcefully this gutted the local feelings….. so the people demanded to go to maharashtra … and Yeshwantrao Chavan the that time cm of maharashtra said that he would give kannada speaking areas of maharashtra to karnataka but the kannada village themselves opposed to go to karnataka…. and the karnataka government is still hurting the sentiments of majority people in the city.. the name “belgavi” has no meaning … and the supreme court has given decision against karnataka in this matter… and it trying to migrate kannada people from other areas to belgaon… to show majority … and the karnataka government had bribed mahajan commission …. And coming to Mumbai .. the majority there is marathi … this is been proved in local elections there … and maharashtra is 5th most developed state in india … the people gathered at “Vishwa Kannada Sammelan” were outside belgaum city …. the first demand of belgaumites was to have government documents to have available in marathi language too but the karnataka government doesn’t understand this….. and you south karnataka people dont want to understand and in benglur itself many people dont know kannada.. that’s all…
first understand the matter and then post the things.
Real belgaonkar,
It is painful to see the cultural destruction of Mumbai, marathis are minorities there. Marathi being totally sidelined. Your efforts should be concentrated for that purpose. Even pune and Nagpur is being occupied by migrants.
Kannadigas in belagaavi were kept in a state of fear and terror for many decades by Marathi organisations but now kannadigas are finding their voice and fighting for their rights.
Kannadigas and marathis are equal victims of MIGRANT MENACE, WE SHOULD JOIN TOGETHER AND FIGHT FOR SONS OF SOIL FIRST POLICY.
Real Belgaonkar
You are obviously ignorant of historical facts! You will be startled and gutted to know that as far as Mumbai, places such as Borivali and Kandivili are Kannada names as in Boravalli and Kandavalli respectively! There are many places in Maharastra even today Kannada shashanas are found regularly and exist permanently! Sure if you want records to be available in Marathi language in Belagavi, there should be no problem provided you had extended the same courtesy to Kannada-speaking population of Sollapur, Athani and other border areas.
I can quote numerous such historical facts.
I think the whole country should be reorganized and given equal Rajshabha seats it should not be based on language. Then only progress will happen.