Sadanand Dhume in The Wall Street Journal:
“The Gandhis are probably the most opaque major politicians in the democratic world. They rarely speak to the media, and when they do it’s not to critics.
“Their views on the pace of economic liberalisation, the nature of the Maoist threat, or the roots of Islamist terrorism must be gleaned from a scrap of information here or a stray rumor there, say a book on counterinsurgency recommended by Rahul Gandhi to the prime minister, or his mother’s packing an influential advisory council with assorted tax-and-spend do-gooders.
“Most Indians haven’t the faintest idea about whether the Gandhis see the rise of China as more of a threat or an opportunity. Or whether they think American influence in Asia is in India’s interest or not. Or if, for them, the trouble with India’s economy is too much capitalism or too little reform.
“For the family, this opacity clearly has benefits. It keeps them above the fray of petty politics. It allows them to exercise power without responsibility. It gives them the flexibility to change political course on a dime. But smart politics doesn’t always generate good policy. Fostering a culture of opacity and public second-guessing about sensitive policy matters is no way to lead a major economy and an aspirant for great power status.”
Also read: Jesus, Mozart, Alexander aur apun ka Rahul Gandhi
Rahul Gandhi‘s ascension: A foregone conclusion?
churumuri 
Just what I had in my mind
LikeLike
While the question of behaving like “holier-than-thou” is certainly not welcome nor appreciated, I believe that its a challenge to engage with the media in a constructive manner without falling into their trap of “exclusive” sound bites/stories and gotchas. I dont think they represent India very well in terms of the voting class of people which is why Her Holiness and His Highness are able to get away with it.
There are times when I really felt appalled at their behavior – esp. the trip by Her Holinesss to Belgium was one such “shining” example. And to be fair,they dont hold executive posts within the government and they dont need to “technically” engage with these sound-bite-wallahs. And in India, more accessibility doesn’t necessarily translate to more votes..
How about turning the heat on Dr. MMS who has had the “achievement” of having had just one solitary press-conference so far?
LikeLike
I would agree with Mr. Dhume’s assessment.
Since neither Sonia nor Rahul G are part of the executive (atleast in a formal way), the only means of knowing about their views are via media interviews, opinion pieces and ofc debates in parliament. The haven’t really lit up these fora with their brilliance and eloquence.
Either it is the reluctance on their part or inadequacy of material in the cranial region. Probably it is the latter. I believe both of them are well-meaning folks and possibly better than 90 percentile of the politicians of all hues in our country at this point in time. But it would take an exaggeratedly servile mind to certify them as intellectual giants who can hold forth on important issues that concern India.
For that matter, did we really have many or any politicians who were erudite and whose opinions on various issues (of the kind Mr. Dhume mentions) were well articulated and known to wide section of the people after Jawaharlal Nehru? I don’t know of any – may be PVN or may be not.
I think the opacity is more of a rule rather than an exception in Indian politics. It’s either because of the lightness of the political beings or they cannily know that life goes on, rather well, without taking a stand on most of the issues.
LikeLike
As long as there are no strong leaders to challenge them but sycophants all around they will remain the same.
LikeLike
The fact is this:
Post nehru, none of the Gandhi’s were intellectual giants. They were all mediocre, everyday individuals, who have been perched in to a position of importance by accident of birth.
If they open their mouth on any substantive, deeper issue, their lack of intellect will be evident to everyone! So, being smart enough to know their limitations they let others speak and do the work!!
However, This is not such a bad thing… In Management you success depends on your ability to realize your weaknesses, and have much smarter people than you, working for you. if you can handle them without creating any ego hassles, then that can make a good leader too (if not a visionary one)…
LikeLike
Rahul Gandhi to PM? What a joke.
If Rahul Gandhi becomes PM then India will be back in 1947.
LikeLike
One never knew what Vajpayee thought about the important issues facing the country.
He spoke very little, and when he spoke, he spoke poetry, which goes over the head of many, anyway.
It is as clear as daylight that neither Sonia nor Rahul are articulate. They just don’t have it in them to speak extrempore on a bewildering range of topics.
Articulate politicians need not make the best adminstrators. Our country is full of politicians who speak a lot but deliver very little.
1. Laloo is one fine example. His rustic eloquence was in inverse proportion to his admin skills. As the CM Of Bihar, we all know what he did.
2.Mamta Banerjee is another. While Railways suffers, she goes bersersk in in hysterical rallies and television studios.
3.Sushma Swaraj is an excellent orator but was a dud as the CM of Delhi. All her oratorial skills could not save her chair! So much for having a full house ‘cranial matter’.
4. Other, allegedly well endowed in the cranial areas – like Jaitely, Sibal, Chidambaram, Jairam Ramesh – are hardly mass politicians.
So when there are a few politicians who don’t speak but rather choose to act, then people like Sadanand Dhume start fretting and fuming.
Actions speak louder than words. here are some of the REVOLUTIONARY actions of the present set of Gandhis
1. NREGA
2.RTI
3. RTE
4. Food Security.
5. Nuclear deal with USA – course it was MMS’s baby, but without the Gandhi backing, could he have done it?
LikeLike
dude as long as they are not forced to open their mouth they keep mum and eat whatever money comes…
LikeLike
Simple:
>Vajpayee thought about the important issues facing the country.
You’ve got it all wrong. He was one of our best orators, and spoke/wrote at length on troubles facing India and he was one of the most interviewed politicians of his time. It is just that he happened in pre-internet era and you can’t find much reference online of what he said. You may disagree with what he stood for, but he was never opaque.
I followed him and never missed any of his speeches in my young years, if it happened anywhere close to Mangalore (70/80s). He edited dailys/magazines and wrote many opinion pieces.
I had read translation of the stuff he wrote/spoke of those days in the kannada magazine called VIKRAMA (I don’t think it is published now).
He supported Industrialization, supported hardline defence policies, wanted more open but swadeshi economics, Opposed authoritarianism of gandhi family (it was a family even then). He openly admired Nehru, though he didn’t entirely agree with his economics.
All this is matter of open record.
In fact, Vajpayee was perhaps the most transparent leader we’ve had, as his entire life was an open book. Just check the books that were written by him or compilation of his speeches (not poems) .
>Articulate politicians need not make the best adminstrators.
No. but they certainly are better understood as to where they stand on issues, and are less ‘opaque’. ;-)
>Actions speak louder than words.
Indeed. You credit Gandhi’s for all the good that they have done. But, we should also fairly credit them (for their actions) of killing golden quadrilateral project, letting Quatrocchi go and killing Bofors probe, Protecting the Anti-sikh folks, promoting sycophants like Arjun Singh (even in cases like Bhopal), Never condemning or admitting the wrongs of the Emergency and related atrocities.
And perhaps we should also credit them (& Congress) with worst inflationary periods in India. In past 30 years, only BJP years had less than 5% inflation!!!
Check the inflation data for facts – http://www.indexmundi.com/india/inflation_rate_%28consumer_prices%29.html.
_
—
Simple:
Oh, I left out to mention the significance of that last bit of data. What Congress under sonia has done is not classical ‘tax and spend’, but more of ‘print and spend’. They either borrow money (from markets) or print money (in terms of Deficit), which adds to the supply of money causing huge inflation.
And Inflation is nothing but tax in another name. Inflation in reality hurts the folks who don’t have assets, which is an hedge against inflation.
So, the very policies you loud the govt. for, is the one creating unprecedented inflation, and thus making the very monies paid to those folks worthless…
LikeLike
@simple
RTI/RTE.. any govt in power would have passed these as they are major vote winners.
NREGA is as usual with govt policies, one thing on paper and something else in practice
The nuclear deal… the less said the better, I have no idea why the present government is so keen on sucking up to america and buying outdated american technology at higher costs and unacceptable restrictions on our freedom to research any scientific field we deem necessary! I have no idea why we are succumbing to US pressure and not sticking with Iran who are our supposed allies in terms of providing us our oil needs for the near future. I have no idea why we are so keen on USA everything!
And lastly i have no idea what it is with the media potraying all these actions as some big achievement. USA moved from attacking afghanistan to iraq back to afghan n now into pakistan. It is not far that they will declare India a hub of terrorism and start mil. ops. in India. .. Well… who knows, maybe the media will glorify that also as a great step in Indo-US relations and the ppl will agree and we will be back under imperialism, only this time it will be americans controlling us and UK holding the second position (like the historical analogy of the british holding most of india, followed by the french n then the portugese in terms of areas of india under colonisation). Considering the divide and rule analogy the USA have already convinced India along with the rest of the countries that “LoC” should be accepted as the national border and that we should not send our troops across etc! It was the americans who decided to put the siachen glacier in the POK limits rather than leaving it as the no man’s land that it was… and here we are, hailing and sucking up to USA again and again and again!
LikeLike
Dear Simple,
Vajpayee way back in the 70s went on to address the UN. BTW., that was not a poetry session. Because NDTV has a 30 minute puppet capsule, and vajpayee’s puppet is seen as a poet there, doesn’t mean that that man was just a poet!
Can you ask your madam and her kiddo to take a statesman stand that ABV took vis-a-vis Pakistan? Please do some bit of reading about people and then pass a judgement. RTI was not your madam’s baby. They were in the govt when it got approved, but was in the works even before that.
Be unbiased in your thinking & writing.
LikeLike
harkol:
>>killing golden quadrilateral project
Have they killed it off? Why didn’t this make big news?
LikeLike
Prajwal:
” have no idea why we are succumbing to US pressure and not sticking with Iran who are our supposed allies in terms of providing us our oil needs for the near future. ”
Bullshit. You want that Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline real bad, don’t you? Cool, and when India-PAK relations deteriorate after the next terror attack and Indian politicians start sabre-rattling, you, Prajwal, can go and light candles at the Wagah border and rub your nose on the soil there to try and beg the Pakis not to shut the flow.
Yeah, let’s stick with the Iranians and have joint ventures with them to build nuclear plants in India. I’m sure the Iranians can give expert assistance, leaders that they are in nuclear technology.
Yeah, the Americans have played shitty politics with not just India, but several countries in the world. But really, some Indians cannot come to terms with the changed geopolitical situation of todays world. The USA will not attack us, don’t lose sleep over that. The Chinese might though – but that’s a different story.
LikeLike
A response from Simple is warranted
LikeLike
Harkol, Prajwal, Deepak
1. Of course, Vajpayee had his own style of oratory. Lot of people loved it. But his PMship wasn’t revolutionary or memorable. Nothing of significance can be recalled except building a few roads here and there. But building roads has been happening since many centuries. It requires vision and courage to take revolutionary steps like the following, which only UPA under Sonia could think of.
1. Guaranteeing employment for rural poor for at least 100 days. No other govt had thought of this before.
2. Giving food-grains for Rs. 3 for 200 of the poorest district in India.
3. Giving laptops for a song – at just Rs.1500 – which could further come down to Rs. 450, if Sibal Kapil has his way.
4. Bringing RTI into existence . In a country where everything was opaque till the RTI was brought into being, now officials are answerable for every act of theirs. Find out which minister has been spending unnecessary on travels, to finding out the exact details of the road repair down your street , to find out how the examinee marked your child’s answer paper.
5. Woman’s reservation bill – while BJP merely gave lip sympathy, Congress acted on it.
6. Waiving off Rs. 60,000 crore loans for poor farmers
7. Increasing the maximum support price for foodgrains, thereby helping rural farmers. Agriculture grew up a healthy 4% compared to the miserable 2% under NDA’s short sighted policies.
8. After 30 years of isolation, UPA’s revolutionary nuclear deal with USA opened the doors for India to do business with France, Russia, Canada and other nuclear powers. It took nearly 4 years of hardcore negotiation to bring India to the high-table of nuclear powers that be. In an energy starved nation, every bit of energy is welcome. The aam aadmi requires power for everything from industry to household work, to travel to working in offices. Without power, a nation stops to a grinding halt. Only UPA had the vision to do realize this.
9. When the world was reeling under recession, India held on. Today it is the second fastest growing economy in the world. Nothing of that sort happened under NDA.
If you look at all the above points, it is absolutely unprecedented. No other govt, including the previous avatars of Congress govt, had ever done anything like this.
As far as inflation, Harkol, your rather tedious explanation – save it for economists. Inflation has been happening since hundreds of centuries, all over the world. India may not be as badly hit as the rest of the world.
Deepak and Prajwal. It is people like you – the very same people who WILL queue up to buy laptops for Rs. 1500, who use RTI to question why the contractor is taking an inordinately long time to construct your flyover, who will complain about the horrible power situation ( and yet crib that the nuclear deal is no big deal),, who will take pride in the high testosterone economic growth registered during the last 6 years of UPA, who pocket the savings accrued to them after the annual budgetary income tax cuts, who make money in the bullish share market when the economy is on a song, and YET.
Yet you will criticize the Congress – with prejudiced eyes .
Go by facts and not by notions.
And Sonia Gandhi is not responsible for the past misdeeds of Congress. Neither the Anti sikh riots nor the Bofors scandal. Arjun Singh was thrown out of the second UPA ministry. So stop raking up dead issues.
LikeLike
As the bickerings of Mr Singh show that the Iron grip of the family over the party is slipping steadily.
The cracks in the steering wheel of the high command are evident. Following are some examples, which cannot be brushed aside as the beginnings of inner party democracy.
Virtual division of congress party in AP into Pro and Anti-Telangana leaders and workers
Jagan’s defiance of High command over his Yatra in AP.
While Congress in Karnataka fights Reddy Brothers the Congress in AP supports them.
Ashok Chavan’s defiance of his party line on Belgaum and his police treatment given to CB Naidu over his visit to Babhli project.
The regional Satraps have started to have independent opinions and also started to flex their muscles. Opacity – yes it covers one’s true self and more importantly weakness.
LikeLike
Simple:
>which only UPA under Sonia could think of.
Too simple a judgment of facts.
If you objectively viewed Vajpayee/PVR achieved a lot more in their 5-6 years, than MMS/Sonia has done in the past 5-6 years. This is not to say, BJP is a better bet than Cong. now, it isn’t. But, we’d loose objectivity if we don’t see it by the merits.
Vajpayee broke the nuclear rubicon, built bridges with US paving the way for what was finally concluded as Nuclear deal. Even MMS gave credit to BJP for enabling the Nuclear deal, but that narrow minded idiot Advani spoiled it for BJP.
In Vajpayees time More highway was built than in previous 3 regimes and the current UPA regime combined. In fact, current UPA back pedalled the roads.
Indian telephony came of age during Vajpayee era.
India expereinced an average growth rate of 6% in Vajapayee time on top of average 4.5% Consumer price inflation. In UPA, India experienced 8% growth rate on top of double digit consumer price inflation!!
Kashmir was totally messed by Rajiv/Narasimha rao combine. During Vajpayee years (post kargil) Kashmir moved towards honestly elected state govts.
Vajpayee built bridges with Israel for modernizing our armed forces.
It is true that NDA govt. didn’t have a long reaching administrative changing legislation like RTI. RTE is so much humbug, especially when there is lesser budgetary education than during NDA!!
NREGA in reality is a regressive program. It has only contributed to inflation, and to make our agriculture more difficult. Ask anyone in agriculture, they’ll tell you how people don’t want to work anymore as they are assured of easy money.
Besides, Sonia’s welfare programs come at a huge expense to the nation in terms of Inflation. Till NDA was in power, a middle class man could dream of a house, today it is impossible for him to own a house within cities!!
On balance, Sonia’s achievements aren’t far better than NDA. Lets not create a halo over her head!!
However, NDA lost it after Vajpayee moved out and it has become a rump group, without any clarity other than greedy/opportunistic moves.
***
Simple:
>the very same people who WILL queue up to buy laptops for Rs. 1500,
ROTFL!!
You don’t even know what you are talking… Wait for the details of the ‘laptop’ before you realize Kapil Sibal and co have made India a laughing stock again. There was a similar announcement 3-4years back too..
I develop computing devices for a living and it isn’t possible to create any reasonable product for $30 that can be called a true computer right now.
————-
Simple:
>Inflation has been happening since hundreds of centuries, all over the world. India may not be as badly hit as the rest of the world.
If you want to be Congress spokesperson, be my guest.
But, it is undisputed fact that India has had a run away inflation, which is far higher than anything it had witnessed before. And it is also a fact that inflation moves up in Congress years, because Congress is fiscally profligate. They spend money they don’t have to fool simpletons in to believing they are helping them.
Between, 1998-2004 realestate prices didn’t move up like between 2005-2008. Real income didn’t increase to compensate for it, making it impossible for people to own reasonable homes anymore…
That’s the true contribution of Inflation. It isn’t only for economists, it is for you and me!
LikeLike
Harkol,
>I develop computing devices for a living and it isn’t possible to create any reasonable product for $30 that can be called a true computer right now.
Is it possible at 60-65 bucks?
PS:Please do not answer if its a very nosey question
LikeLike
Simple,
Please don’t post comments like you answer a question in S.S.L.C board exam; You have one good point but just fill the page with 9 more lame points like you do when answering a 10 mark question.
LikeLike
“I develop computing devices for a living and it isn’t possible to create any reasonable product for $30 that can be called a true computer right now.”
So true. We really should stop making a laughing stock of ourselves. Talk less, and do more.
Ah, but you’re missing one thing – probably the guys will purchase laptops at $300 and subsidize it, selling it for $30 just like they subsidize Disel, Kerosene, and other stuff.
That’s how this Rs. 1500 laptop might really come true! :D
I also agree that the NDA regime built more and better roads than all the other congress regimes combined! Only a dumbass will call it “building some roads here and there”
If only the BJP gets out of it’s hardcore Hindutva shit, I would vote them each time!
LikeLike
ಹರ್ಕೊಲ್ ಸಾರ್, ನಿಮ್ಮ ಕಾಮೆಂಟ್ಸ್ ಸಕ್ಕತ್ತಾಗಿದೆ
Very Informative
:-)
LikeLike
Simpole of the Secular Bailey!
You must stop referring Sonia Mata as ‘She Who Must be Obeyed’ at all costs. You have that large thing between your ears don’t you? Please use it. Excellent rebuttals by Harkol and Vinay. Complex on SSLC board exam cracked me up!
LikeLike
Harkol,
Your wild accusations are rooted in your own snug delusions. Inflation is not a Central government induced phenomenon alone. State governments too play a major role. Somehow, this seems to escape your mind.
1.Karnataka state government increased the price of milk by Rs. 2.
2.Karnataka state government increased the domestic water prices
3.Karntaka state government is increasing the electricity charges
4.When petrol prices were hiked, Karnataka state government is expected to make bumper revenue of Rs300 crore through sales tax, VAT and entry tax. This state government calls for a bandh, but it does nothing to pass on the benefit of Rs. 300 crore to the aam aadmi. It is therefore directly responsible for the inflation.
5.Kerosine and petrol are cheaper in Congress governments because cong governments in the respective states have reduced state govt. taxes.
6.Bus prices have been increased disproportionately to hike in diesel prices.
7.The state government is planning to heap all kind of taxes day and night, congestion tax, road tax, directly adding to the burden of the common man.
8.The state government has lost thousands of crores due to illegal mining. With so much of flush funds, the govt, could have reduced the burden on common man. But it chose to look the other way. And you accuse Cong of being fiscally profligate. As if NDA did not subsidise diesel, kerosene, petrol, fertilizers, et all, when it was in power. What a strange falsification of truth Mr. Harkol.
These are just samplers, there are many more instances to prove that state governments are MORE guilty than the central government when it comes to inflation.
Please stop finger-pointing at the Central govt. alone. It is good to use your own insight and intelligence, once in a while, instead of parroting what the opposition parties say.
All you fantastic theories of NDA’s achievements of more highways being built, of Indian telephony coming of age are a big yaawn. (yawn!, do you really want me to say that MMS started liberalisation, NDA took it two steps forward and UPA took it 100 steps forward?).
All your fascinating theories are filibuster, without any statistical bearing.
Great ideas are always laughed at, in the beginning. But it will be Sibal Kapil who will have the last laugh. 1500 laptops are here to stay. Push the envelope, instead of sitting on a couch and cribbing that ‘on, no, it is not possible’
LikeLike
@Vinay
>>probably the guys will purchase laptops at $300 and subsidize it, selling it for $30
Low end laptops run on Intel Atom processors. Atom costs around $45. Open hardware is not explored to the full extent in India. I read the specifications. It doesnt have a screen. You need to plug separate screen through USB.
As far as OS is concerned it has to be open source else MS will rip MHRD.
@Simple: Even if you combine open hardware and open software you wont get a laptop for $30
On the other hand MHRD’s Sakshat programme is commendable because as a student I was involved in one of the successful projects and these people have good ideas which can be implemented on a large scale.
LikeLike
While I concede that the State governments share responsibility for price rise, I repeat: Only a dishonest dumbass will not give credit to NDA for the Golden Quadrilateral project. In 1999, I would not have ever thought in my dreams that I would be able to drive from Bangalore to Chennai in four hours. This is something that I can do easily today, thanks to GQ.
Simple, you keep talking about being ‘impartial and giving credit when credit is due’. If you don’t want to be considered as a blatant hypocrite, accept that the NDA made the best National Highways that India has seen till date. Something which the Congress did not do for 50 years before NDA. Even UPA-I and UPA-II have made limited progress on NHs compared to NDA.
LikeLike
joblessenggstud:
Where did you read the specs? I think it does have a screen. It also has Wi-Fi, USB, etc. etc. Can you post the link to the specs which you have seen?
LikeLike
@Vinay: Sorry i misused the word “specification” in my comment. Its another low end laptop with 2GB RAM etc etc and 2-watt power system. Regarding the screen i was misled by rediff’s report. It has a touch screen. If you need a bigger screen then you need to plug it to USB. And Sibal has said that it will be subsidized.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/infotech/hardware/India-unveils-30-laptop/articleshow/6201876.cms
LikeLike
Vinay,
It is not that roads were not there before NDA came into existence. Were you travelling by bullock cart to Chennai before 1996? I travelled when I was a kid in 1983, and it took us 6 hours. I remember. Is that not an improvement from 1947, when you used to take 10 hours?
So please, put on your objective lenses before losing your fuse. Change is bound to happen. Every government has to constantly improve the previous govt’s performance.
The road achievements of NDA is disproportionate to the muscle flexing propoganda of BJP and its blind supporters.
I concede that highways was the only postive point of NDA. It was a single trick govt.
And Harkol,
You say congress was fiscally profligate. When UPA I was in power, it maintained 8% growth for 16 consecutive quarters, as a result of which revenues improved enormously.
Therefore, the governement had to use this money for inclusive growth. And hence it spent on the social sector, including waiving off loans for the farmers.
However, your rantings against Congress is without any statistical bearing as i said earlier. THE PROOF OF CONGRESS FISCAL PRUDENCE lies inthe FISCAL Defecit.
UPA I actually brought down the defecit from a high of 6% to 4.5%. So clearly Congress knows how to handle the finances better than NDA, when jobs were less, the economy was in ruins and there was a feeling of general despondence throughout the country.
LikeLike
simple:
economics 101- inflation is a product of amount of money chasing limited products. i.e. Increase in money supply without corresponding increase in productivity.
It is not about petrol price increase or milk price increase.
Currency is a central subject. It controls the money supply of india. State govts react to the monetary policy.
Inflation can’t be state specific for a simple reason. If only one state experiences Disproportionate inflation there will be smuggling from neighbouring state.
Besides go thru historic data by any source you’ll know inflation has been perverse in past 5 years and has been so in all states of india.
LikeLike
Simple Sir,
Cheddi gang is conceding defeat by bringing in Rumpole of old bailey to defend them.
LikeLike
Nithya-Rotti,
I doubt if Simpole gets it:)
At least I can see that most of the posters here have shreds of humility left in them. But Simpole of the Secular Bailey is beyond hope!
LikeLike
Harkol,
Your economics is rusty. Seems like you are reading out of some dusty textbook published a 100 years ago.
For the Aam Aadmi in Karnataka, the BJP government is doing nothing to control price rise, except lamenting that Congress is responsible.
I brought out eight points to prove that the aam aadmi of Karnataka has to dig deep into the pockets because of the DIRECT actions of the state government. Instead of rebutting (if you can, that is) point by point, you choose to give me some archaic theory about economics. This is called obfuscation.
The reason why I write point by point is that I want the debate to be focussed and crisp. Otherwise escapists can run away by strategical digressing, diversion and talking in completely abstract and general terms.
Some mahanubava compared my writing style to SSLC answer papers. See? This is your mindset, when you cannot debate, you abuse the debators. I am not the issue here, inflation is. So stick to the topic.
Please answer all the eight points that i have raised. Also, answer:
How does Congress remarkably manage to keep the fiscal defecit under check, and it balloons out of control when NDA is in power?
Petrol and Kerosine is Congress ruled states are cheaper than BJP ruled states. Why? Harkol sahebre answer maaditheera?
LikeLike
Simple:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/infotech/hardware/Why-Indias-35-computer-joke-isnt-funny/articleshow/6214029.cms
LikeLike
The JDS has its Manjunathas and Dattas, the Congress its Simple. Much of the discussion here says that we should be happy with the better of the two or three evils that sup on our blood. Must that be so? Shouldn’t there be more options in a supposedly educated, democratic country? Entropy is not a choice, but a condition.
LikeLike
Make no mistake, I will be the happiest person in the world if this $35 laptop indeed comes true. But I am skeptical. I will believe it when I see it (and buy several of them too).
LikeLike
Two of the eight points you make are just fillers
1.Karnataka state government increased the price of milk by Rs. 2.
2.Karnataka state government increased the domestic water prices
No, it didn’t. I searched google news. I didn’t find anything about this. Give me some link to justify this.
3.Karntaka state government is increasing the electricity charges
It “is increasing”. It has NOT been increased YET.
4.When petrol prices were hiked, Karnataka state government is expected to make bumper revenue of Rs300 crore through sales tax, VAT and entry tax. This state government calls for a bandh, but it does nothing to pass on the benefit of Rs. 300 crore to the aam aadmi. It is therefore directly responsible for the inflation.
5.Kerosine and petrol are cheaper in Congress governments because cong governments in the respective states have reduced state govt. taxes.
Please substantiate this with a link.
6.Bus prices have been increased disproportionately to hike in diesel prices.
Please substantiate with a link.
7.The state government is planning to heap all kind of taxes day and night, congestion tax, road tax, directly adding to the burden of the common man.
Congestion tax. Never heard of it being implemented in India, let alone Karnataka. I know that it has been implemented in London.
8.The state government has lost thousands of crores due to illegal mining. With so much of flush funds, the govt, could have reduced the burden on common man. But it chose to look the other way. And you accuse Cong of being fiscally profligate. As if NDA did not subsidise diesel, kerosene, petrol, fertilizers, et all, when it was in power. What a strange falsification of truth Mr. Harkol.
Well, I agree with you on this point. The state could have checked on illegal mining. But hten, what about price rise in other states.
Simple, you write half-truths. Not good.
LikeLike
Harkol,
1500 laptops are not yet a reality. Experts are working on it to make it a reality. If it does not work out, then you can drag the knives out.
We were on inflation and which party is responsible for that.
Here is a party which manages to reign in fiscal defecit, yet spend on social sector programmes.
That is perfect. Only a Congress could do it, unlike in NDA, when the fiscal defecit was huge and the poor also, were getting it left right and centre. Either way it was a loss loss under NDA.
LikeLike
Vinay,
Come on there is no way you can have a $35 laptop. Just look at the BOM cost:)
Simpole of the Secular Bailey,
When the $35 laptop is a reality, in your honor we will call it
‘The Simputer’
IMHO any Indian national is a $1 or less costing human laptop. Just work out the BOM and add the specs…)
LikeLike
“When the $35 laptop is a reality, in your honor we will call it
‘The Simputer’”
But the name ‘Simputer’ is already taken: http://www.simputer.org
Need to think of something else…
LikeLike
Simple:
>Here is a party which manages to reign in fiscal defecit, yet spend on social sector programmes.
You can continue to be a Congress fanboy and I’ll continue to be a sceptical & highly critical congress voter, till NDA recovers from thugs like Modi/Reddy.
My choice of congress is that of a lesser evil, while being fully aware of the strengths of a better economic agenda of NDA/BJP.
Consider this:
In 2003, the parliament passed FRBM. It set a targets for Finance Ministry in terms of Fiscal Deficit. As per the target, revenue deficit, had to be reduced to nil in five years beginning 2004-05. Each year, the government was required to reduce the revenue deficit by 0.5% of the GDP. FRBM also stipulated that the Fiscal Deficit had to come down to 3% by 2008-2009. 2003/04 Fiscal deficit was 4.8%.
The very first budget of Chidambaram (2004-05) violated the FRBM and it has kept on breaching it, year after year since then (except for 2008).
As to your statements about miracle of low dificit & high spending, remember the english saying “If it seems too good to be true, it probably is”
Congress has repeatedly projected a fiscal defiist in budget, but in most years the real fiscal deficit was far higher than what budget projected. In past two years Govt. borrowing (thanks to NREGA) has gone really out of control.
Check this – http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5974894.cms
You can call me a economic illiterate. While I am no expert, I studied both Macro & Micro economics as part of my MBA, understand its fundamentals well and its one of my fav subjects even today.
————
Simple:
>Seems like you are reading out of some dusty textbook published a 100 years ago.
You’ll be surprised how these 100year old, time tested economic theories are still the foundation of World economy. Keynesian economics has stood the test of time, and has proved itself right again and again.
—
Simple:
>Petrol and Kerosine is Congress ruled states are cheaper than BJP ruled states. Why? Harkol sahebre answer maaditheera?
hmm… You are only refering to Delhi, which has always had low fuel prices (congress or otherwise). Similarly Bangalore had high fuel prices even when Congress regime was here.
Consider the following as on today: http://www.iocl.com/Products/Gasoline.aspx
Petrol costs only 4paisa more in Chennai (DMK) than in Mumbai (cong). It costs 58paise more in Bangalore than Hyderabad.
Petrol costs 56paise more in Mumbai (cong) than in Calcutta (CPM).
Can you see any uniformal pattern to form an opinion?? What exactly is your point?
—
Simple:
>1500 laptops are not yet a reality. Experts are working on it to make it a reality. If it does not work out, then you can drag the knives out.
The point is – There have been so many announcements about these computing devices so many times before. None add up to much, for a simple reason:
A computing device is so much more than sum total of its parts. I knew the guys who created the indigenous Super computer in IISc well. It was one of the most powerful computers of its time, in pure computational terms. But, it was never good at anything, for they didn’t have a good working OS/apps.
besides, @1500 (or anything less than Rs.5000) you can’t put together a system that supports good number of Linux apps. Cross Rs.5000 then it becomes feasible.
As someone pointed out, Kapil Sibal may be more successful if he subsidizes the systems running full-blown linux.
Neverthless, I believe HRD’s money is better spent on focusing on better schools and teachers
LikeLike
Complex
My name is simple. I go by simple facts. Not complex theories.
1. See this link which shows the Central government has gifted Karnataka government Rs. 298 crore as revenue, through fuel price hike. Yet the state government did nothing to lessen the burden
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/82758/states-reap-millions-petrol.html
2. Petrol prices highest in Bangalore, here is the link
http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/business/petrol-diesel-costliest-in-bangalore_10056735.html
3. http://www.mybangalore.com/article/0710/bandh-is-set-to-deprive-state-economy-of-rs-734-crore.html
The above link shows Karnataka has the highest taxes on petrol.
4. Bihar, a BJP ruled state, levies 12.5% tax on PDS Kerosine while Cong ruled states levy 0% sales tax on Kerosine. (see the last para of this link)
http://www.dayafterindia.com/detail.php?headline=content&catid=734
5. Water tariff hike is closer than you think.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/61836/water-tariff-hike-likely-month.html
6. Power tariff hike in Bangalore
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/Power-tariff-hike-deals-a-shock/articleshow/5269868.cms
LikeLike
Harkol
1. FRBM may have been breached. Inspite of it being breached, UPA managed to keep the fiscal deficit down. NDA could not keep it down during its six year period. In an UPA vs NDA scoresheet, UPA wins hands down.
And.
And that is the remarkable achievement of UPA.
2. During NDA period, there was no social sector benefits for the poor, the rural farmers and the underprivileged. NDA’s government was for the elite. Aam aamdi did not even get a morsel of benefit from it.
3. Again, don’t obfuscate. In pure economic yardstick, in UPA vs NDA, it is the UPA which scores high repeatedly. You can be an ostrich with its anti-congress head buried deep inside the sand, so you just can’t see the truth.
4. The point is BJP has one of the HIGHEST sales tax and VAT on petrol and Kerosine in India. Sales tax is is lesser in Congress ruled states.
5. Sibal Kapil is correct until he is proved wrong. Wait for 6 months. Even if the laptops are subsidized, heck, why not. These laptops are for the aam admi not for the fat cats. Even if Cong subsidizes the laptop, wonder of wonder – it still keeps fiscal deficit lessser than NDA.
6. When BJP can give free bicycles to school girls, when BJP can give grains at heavily subsidized price in Chattisgarh there is not a whimper of protest from the ‘anti-subisidy’ ‘blind-lover of BJP’s economics’ called Mr. Harkol.
When NDA during its six year term heavily subsidized kerosine, diesel and petrol, there was curious silence from BEL (Bjp’s Economics Lovers)
But.
But, when Congress does it, then the fangs come out. Tch. Tch.
UPA financial report card: Subisidize, spend on social sector, 9% robust economic growth. Lesser fiscal deficit.
NDA financial report card: zero spend on social sector, poor economic growth of 5.5%, huge fiscal deficit.
Facts can’t be changed. Unless you are wearing short sighted spectacles.
LikeLike
Whatay fight I say! Sivaji taking on multiple villains eh? Simple sir, I may not agree with many of your assertions but gotta admit you are one hell of a gallant fighter:)
Jokes aside, the $35 tablet/netbook is an awfully tough stuff to do but not an impossible thingie.
Here is why I may stick my neck out on this..just a wee bit.
1. In the BoM, LCD panel would be the costliest part. If one controls the procurement of LCD well, half the battle is won. Two things that would help this in 1-2 years
– LCD prices are falling y-o-y. With LED coming in quite swiftly, LCD folks may scramble to mop up whatever revenue that’s possible from their investments.
– if it’s vigorously backed by the Govt and thereby is assured of a massive deployment – say to the tune of 10 Mil or more pieces, then volume game will kick in. It will be easier to get better prices from the seller if he is assured of a big volume.
2. I don’t know the processor details of this device. If it is from the mainstream CISC family (Intel), then the CPU will cost a chunk of money. However if the folks choose a RISC ( say based on ARM/MIPS) processor, then the cost would be lower. The question would be if such a processor be able to handle smart applications like MS Office. The answer would be a limited yes. Many of the smartphones available today use RISC processors based on ARM and they can pretty much handle the smart apps.
Any one has details on the processor/s being used in this? Please share that.
One can safely assume that at $35, no one is going to get a cutting edge device. It will be a just about functional one.
LikeLike
@Doddi Buddi: Sorry to disappoint you. Simputer is outdated. BEL couldnt sell more than 5000 units, though it costed 12.5k. We can have Simputer Reloaded, Simputer Revolution.
@Vinay: Yesterday I tried Nokia N900. It puts iPhone to shame. Since it is open source, it can be customized. Costs $250. Sibal can subsidize it. BTW 30$ laptop doesnt have a hard-disk. http://www.thewindowsclub.com/india-launches-a-30-tablet-pc
LikeLike
Simple:
>Unless you are wearing short sighted spectacles.
I do have a short sight problem and wear spectacles! but that has nothing to do with economics. :-)
>You can be an ostrich with its anti-congress head
I am not anti-congress. neither am I anti-BJP. I don’t see I need to be one or the other!
In other words – I am pragmatic, not dogmatic. I vote by the available options, person & agenda presented to me. More recently it has been Congress, but in not too distant past it was BJP.
Personally, I like Sonia/Rahul’s dignified behavior. But, I hate the fact that Congress party is a personal property of that family.
Congress economics was horrendous before and now is in a way diluted continuation of muddle headed 50-60 years of congress communist thinking, which has ruined us.
The philosophy behind congress economics is ‘give fish to poor’ policy instead of ‘lets teach them how to fish’. They try to protect instead of promote.
>When NDA during its six year term heavily subsidized kerosine, diesel
>But, when Congress does it, then the fangs come out. Tch. Tch.
They indeed did that. And that was really appalling considering Vajpayee had promised he’d remove the subsidies on Diesel (Petrol was never subsidized). But, he never did. The problem again was competetive populism. In fact, in places I have told that BJP blew their chance to change India radially.
But, that doesn’t mean I can’t criticize congress for doing the same. Anyway, congress has taken the welcome step of moving away from subsidies. This is the right way to go forward.
>In an UPA vs NDA scoresheet, UPA wins hands down.
It depends on what you are scoring them on.. If it is on Inflation, only a fanboy like you would claim the above! You are oblivious to any facts and are going by myths. Both fiscal deficit (as average of entire tenure) and inflation (as average during entire tenure) have been bad in UPA. Check the statistics.
In the end: My primary difference with Congress is in their ‘populist’ policies like NREGA etc. Invariably it has led to higher ‘real’ deficits and thus high inflation.
Historic inflation figures between 1947-2010 supports this, like none of your dogmatic (bordering on sycophantic) exertions can. In 2004, when Congress won, my brother told me – Just wait and see how the real-estate and markets will zoom now. His logic was based on historic experience of inflation. It turned out to be true.
While, our family made huge money betting on real-estate, it hasn’t been good for majority of Indians. That is the undeniable reality of past 6 years.
Neverthless, I don’t want to be an Aurangzeb to your Shivaji (Thanx Anshuman for your analogy)! So, I rest.
**
Anshuman:
> CISC vs RISC.
The reality is more in the power envelope than in pricing. For the same amount of computing power a RISC chip will cost more or less the same.
The point isn’t that. A BOM of Rs.1500 (or $35) isn’t compatible with the pricing for a resonable computing device at this time. Invariably, our mandarins call anything that can do some computing a computer, and loose sight of what a productive computer should do to keep up with the times.
Even a thin, web browser based computing device with a good display will cost $100 and above today (in quantities of millions). To get it below that you start compromising, and at $35 compromise will be so huge that it’ll only be a museum piece like Simputer
***
>2. Petrol prices highest in Bangalore, here is the link
Petrol prices are second Highest in Hyderabad! It is far higher in Mumbai than in Ahamadabad.
What does all this prove!! To think petrol price is an indicator of the goodness of sound economic policy i absurd.
India has an average levy of about 49% on fuel. London has 63%, but still experiences overall far lesser inflation than India.
Inflation in India isn’t a product of Oil price hike. The reasons are elsewhere.
LikeLike
Anshuman:
>With LED coming in quite swiftly, LCD folks may scramble
I think you haven’t understood the market right. LED is only used for Backlighting in place of Cold-Cathod-Tube. The display is still an LCD one.
The pure LED display (OLED) is years away from large scale adoption as its cost is very high.
Only N85 of Nokia and a few other phones have pure OLED display right now.
LikeLike
Anshuman,
Finally a balanced viewpoint! You have a right to disagree with what I say, please do so with facts. If I am convinced by what you say, and that can only happen through facts, i shall gladly swallow what I wrote.
Today’s times of india reports that BJP is planning to subsidise digital auto meters.
So Harkol, this is the nth subsidy item to the long subsidy list doled out by the BJP. (Other never ending list includes Rice, bicycles, fertilizers, kerosine, diesel in the NDA govt, )
When BJP doles out subsidy it is good economics.
When Congress doles out subsidy it is bad economics.
When BJP gives us a massive fiscal deficit of 6% it is good economics
When Congress drives it down to 4.5% it is bad economics
When BJP gives us a poor economic growth of 5.5% it is good economics.
When Congress gives us an astounding economic growth of 9% it is bad economics.
When BJP gives us a poor agriculture growth of 2 to 2.5% it is good econmoics.
When Congress gives as a much better agriculture growth of 4 to 4.5% it is bad economics.
When BJP allows 60,000 crores of rupees to be lost due to illegal mining, it is good economics.
When Congress gains 100,000 crore rupees by way of 3G auction, it is bad economics.
When BJP does not guarantee any jobs, it is good economics
When Congress guarantees jobs (through NREGA) it is bad economics.
That seems to be the nature of your opaque argument.
LikeLike
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/07/23/1338249/Indias-35-Tablet-Computer
LikeLike
Today’s deccan herald states that auto fares in Bangalore is one the highest in India. Delhi has more minimium fare, but it is only Rs. 6.50 per kilometere while it is 9 rupees per kilometer in Bangalore.
So when BJP raises prices of milk, auto, power, water, it is good economics.
When Congress raises prices of petrol is bad economics
You do the math.
LikeLike
>LCD folks may scramble to mop up whatever revenue that’s possible from their investments.
>However if the folks choose a RISC ( say based on ARM/MIPS) processor, then the cost would be lower
whats this????????
LikeLike
joblessenggstud:
Well, maybe it does not have a hard disk, but does it have some kind of persistent storage? I read somewhere that it has 2 GB “memory”. Now, reporters cannot tell the difference between RAM and HDD, so this 2GB figure is ambiguous – but I presume that it is some kind of persistent memory since I wouldn’t expect 2GB RAM on this ultra cheap device.
Basically, if it can read PDFs, has a basic word processor, can access the net (through Wi-Fi) and store some limited amount of data, it’s pretty good for $35. Cannot be called a ‘laptop’, but it does have some practical uses. I hope the guys get this done – I’m tired of seeing India raise muck on itself by making such promises.
LikeLike
Simple,
You’ve won, the show is over, Harkol will vote for congress.
I have a request for you and AP, please leave the economics & electronics to experts i.e. Harkol & Vinay.
Thank you for your attention & kind cooperation..
LikeLike
DB:
>Harkol will vote for congress.
I have voted for congress in two elections already!! Didn’t need a sycophantic exertions of Simple for doing that…
;-)
LikeLike
@DailyBread:
>>I have a request for you and AP, please leave the economics & electronics to experts i.e. Harkol & Vinay.
Point noted and shall try to do my best My Lord:)
>>LCD folks may scramble to mop up whatever revenue that’s possible from their investments.
>However if the folks choose a RISC ( say based on ARM/MIPS) processor, then the cost would be lower
>whats this????????
You have the choice not to read what you do not understand. Please exercise that choice next time.
Thank you for your attention & kind cooperation..
LikeLike
Simple:
As I said – Give it a rest and wait for a call from Sonia Gandhi… I am sure she is pleased by now..
LikeLike
>Please exercise that choice next time
I hope I have made my point ;-) Over to experts…
LikeLike
@Harkol,
Thanks for the clarification on LED vs LCD. My analysis about why the LCD prices are falling was wrong (ie due to LED panels).
While on RISC, have you checked up application processors such as OMAP from TI or Nomadik from ST? These processors have decent processing power at a lower cost (in large volume) as compared to regular Intel/AMD GPP.
LikeLike
Me and sychopantic?
Will a congress fanboy EVER say the following?
1. I unequivocally condemn the flip flops of CBI in Mulayam and Mayawati cases. Will any Congress chamcha dare say that>?
2. I have a feeling Congress is getting a wee bit complacent and showing feeble signs of arrogance. The ministers are at war with each other. If not at war, there are signs of dissonance. This is not good for the government. I will be the first person NOT to vote for Congress if this feeble signs of arrogance snowballs into a full fledged body, rock hard body of haughtiness and dictatorship.
3. Congress needs to take part blame for price rise along with the state governments.
4. Congress should not sneak in the nuclear liability bill.
Like I said, I go by facts. harkol, yes, congress 20 years back was all that you say. But Congress has changed since the last ten years. So make your own judgement and please stop abusing me.
LikeLike
Anshuman:
>These processors have decent processing power at a lower cost (in large volume) as compared to regular Intel/AMD GPP.
Bottom line is what you call a computer. All phones are computing devices too. But, most of Arm Core (OMAP is based on it) isn’t capable of handling decent size display and other processor intensive activities. Cortex A9 based devices (like iPad) can, but then the cost point is same as a laptop.
LikeLike