Sri Siddeshwara swamiji of the Jnana Yogashram in Bijapur, quoted in Star of Mysore:
“Immanuel Kant lived up to 80 years and spent all his life in the quest of truth. When asked why he had not married, he replied that he had forgotten about it in his search for truth.
“Similar is the story of an Indian philosopher, Nagoji Dikshit who too went in the quest of truth for 60 years. On the very first day of marriage, he told his wife that he did not want to be tied down by marital fetters and wanted to roam free in search of truth and meaning of life.
“His wife agreed and he went away, only to return six decades later.
“By the time, the wife’s beauty had waned and he too had grown very weak. The wife greeted the prodigal husband with great love and respect. The husband told her that they had two children. When the wife asked, ‘how?’ he showed her two books, filled with knowledge.”
churumuri 
I read “Critique of Pure Reason” by Kant; does not resonate with Hindu Idea, but nevertheless a good read. Most Western Philosphy parallels logic and reason, in fact in Mathematics you can get a Ph.D. in Philosophy.
Only Westerner that resonates with Hindu thought is Spinoza; in a nutshell “Whatever ones station/state in life, it is always better that we praise & submit to the Supreme Lord”
Shankaracharya take that the “Brahman” is the only Truth is pretty valid, when one can understand that the Universe really does not exist, inspite we living in it.
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Sir, I have not read the works of Imannual Kant or Spinoza and even great Shankaracharya . But I just started reading “Theory of Relativity” which had been heavily influenced by the philosophers you had just mentioned.
>>Shankaracharya take that the “Brahman” is the only Truth is pretty valid, when one can understand that the Universe really does not exist, inspite we living in it.>>
The “Only Ultimate Truth” the Lord Buddha and and Great Kanakadasa discovered in their life time is pretty simple :–
“I (read it has ‘Self’) do not exist in this universe”!
There can be only “relative” skillful (or even unskillful) usage of “I or self” but it is not absolute truth. This law even applies to “Demigods and Devils “and also Ultimate Almighty “Supreme Lord” if he exist!
This law led us to say “Emptiness” is Supreme Lord!
If Shankaracharya referred “Brahman” to some “Personality God” or even one of four Varnas which I don’t know and am sorry if misrepresent it, then he tried to resonate this with ultimate truth.
If these things are viewed from “Buddhas and even Kanakadasa” Reference Frame then Shankaracharya quoting us to say –
Brahman is empty!
What happen if all great saints of Kshatriya, vaishyas, shudras and Untouchables preach the same thing as great Adi shakaracharya did?
Again the same law applied to it and viewed from neutral Reference Frame we should say all Kshatriya, Vaishyas, Shudras and Untouchables are empty!
>>Universe really does not exist, inspite we living in it.>>
Sir, Before telling Universe do not exist or it is just empty same as above it would be appropriate to define “what is universe”? Let me analyze this from my little understanding of it:-
Universe is defined by unification of space and time entity. Is “space” is empty? Definitely not ,modern physics says the same. It is boiling cauldron of virtual particles. Then what do not exist?
In relativistic physics only one thing is Empty. It is Space-time!
Neither space is empty nor time is empty but Space-time is really empty and it hard and tricky to realize it with conventional mundane mind. It is appropriate to say Space-time is unchangeable entity viewed from all different (even opposite) reference frame. Famous example is “speed of light-c”
‘Space’ and ‘time’ separation for the ‘same event’ is different for different people in the world, just as celebration of ticking of 12 clock midnight, New Year at different places at different time! But “space-time” is same for all in the form of Empty :)
At last- To put it in simple way
If greedy man (like our current politician and capitalist) tries to play disgusting game with “Space” entity or “Time” entity of Nature then Nature reverts back by corresponding relative change in “Time” entity or “Space” entity so that “Emptiness” of Space-Time is conserved.
Thanks
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Stephen Hawkings has finally propounded that “Universe came from Nothing”; Buddha also claims of Shunyavada;
Seeking and finding God is like looking for a light switch in a dark maze; Buddha found the Switch, but never turned it on; If he has turned it on, he would have found GOD right there besides him, in him, and around him.
Universe cannot come from nothingness; it can come from “completeness”. What is “Completelness”, called “Purna” is no matter which dimension, space-time matrix one is, all our experiences, and every event is just a subset of something that already exists. What it means is a realized being can predict exactly what will happen a million years from now.
At Quantum level; you have physical phenomenon called Quantum-Entanglement; According to which has been proved through physical experiment is a proton pair no matter what distance seperates them will have identical spin states. That is if one entangled proton changes it spin state, the other proton at infinite distance instantly changes its spin state. This beats the speed of light is the fastest etc. Einstein used only largest value known to Man to prove E=Mc^2; difintely at physical level there is Space-Time curvature, What is causing that curvature.
Sun exerts its gravity on Earth or on all planets, why arent they all falling into the Sun due to gravity/space-time curvature. Because there is something that keeps it orbit, Again, Earths orbit keeps swaying within a range, but never exceeds this range, how is thi spossible.
Many claim Dark Energy, Vacum Energy, Quintessense. etc.
Once in a while even Laws of Physics change.
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“Be a philosopher; but, amidst all your philosophy, be still a man,” said David Hume in Section 1 of An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding. I’m sure Immanual Kant had read this or was it a case of selective amnesia?
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@NRavi
Sir, Please do not equate that stupid Atheist Stephen hawking’s idiotic statements with Buddha’s well researched “Shunyavada”.
He never claimed that universe was created out of nothing. That was a blatant lie created by you people. He was just silent when this question was thrown on him. In fact he was one of the pioneers in the discovery of “Cause and Effect” principle of the nature. The principle what he discovered was cyclic in nature(not linear). You know cycles do not have starting or ending point or any “unique special point” to describe “Creation” of Universe (starting point ) or “Protection” of universe a.k.a Supreme Lord (unique special point!) and even “End “of universe(ending point).
Here principle of “Cause and Effect” will itself manifest as Supreme Lord and all other Lords created by man doesn’t serve any purpose.
Yes, Buddha found the switch and he even switched it on and discovered the God in him, within him, around him. Note this God is not personal property of anybody. He is a smasher of Karma-The Nirvana (The Antidote to Cause and Effect principle).
First he discovered the Cause and Effect Principle in the negativeness:-“suffering and its cause -desire” Then he discovered the same in positiveness:-“end of suffering and its cause- the removal of desire”.
Positiveness + negativeness = emptiness,
so Shunyavada doesn’t violate Cause and Effect Principle as you portrayed here! Instead it preserves vital factors to maintain balance in it along with the cure.
May be your definition of “completeness” correlates with “emptiness” of what Buddha described :)
But I found “shunyavada” is more appropriate and correct word selected by him.
<<no matter which dimension, space-time matrix one is, all our experiences, and every event is just a subset of something that already exists. What it means is a realized being can predict exactly what will happen a million years from now.<<
Whole heartedly agree with you. What is your method to reach there? Please don’t tell just to “believe” and submission to Almighty Supreme Lord, Brahman etc without doing any work.
About “quantum entanglement” yes heard about it there is lot of research going on in this field. Some sources even claims it reveals secrets of human consciousness.
Greater than speed of light, well I don’t know anything about it. But learned in space-time physics any object which moves greater than light it could violate order of cause and effect in million testable ways contrary to our experience. The in-variance of speed- preserves the electric or magnetic property of material. When there is no magnetic or electric property there will no communication process like mobile, cable dish antenna, and even internet!
As you told laws of physics will change once in a while but it cannot throw already existent and proved theory into a bin. Newton’s laws of motion and gravitational which is experimented on very low speed is still valid and preserved though it is considered superfluous at high speed. Einstein,Minkowski and Poincare modified Newton’s work to suit high speed physics and they had not changed core content of Newton’s work which is fine at low speed.
At last what will change is perception to look at Nature. From Aristotle ’s simple time and simple space to Galilean, Newton’s compound space/time means absolute time and relative space then Einstein,Poincare and Minkowski changes it to absolute
space-time.
Who knows what next to come.Is it Emptiness?! A million dollar question.
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Buddha cracked the Causal Plane; God” Brahman” all other Hindu Gods are beyond Cause and Effect, they are in the Transcedental plane. Here beings can do anything, even immoral things as one might believe on Earth, Like Lord Rama killing Vaali, or Krishna inducing Arjuna to kill Karna against war rules. Turiya state is The Ultimate state, you have to be a Hindu God or equivivalent even to enter such a place.
Advithiya is for beings in TP, they just discover Brahman on Earth, so to say, Adi Shankaracharya rediscovered Brahman on Earth, he always knew Brahman in the other world before he was born; As they say he was Lord Shiva.
Buddha could not find a competent guru, thats why he framed “The Middle Path”, There is a saying in Hinduism, “When you are ready, God will send you a Guru”, You cannot realize Brahman without a Realized helpful Guru. “Dhama” ==> “Dharma” Sucha ==> Truth” Kalphas, yougas etc are all this stuff is Hindu rehash.
They say Shankaracharya was born after Buddha, it is not true, one frames Lord Krishna was born 5000 years ago, Lord Rama 7000 years ago. Associating time with Hindu Gods without accurate knowledge is Blasphemy and a Sin.
A lot of Sins are going around have fun.
“Completeness” is not “Emptiness”
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@ NRavi : Stephen Hawking’s statement that “Universe came from Nothing” answers nothing. Until we explain what is the end point or birth of universe, the quest for truth would continue.
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Beyond causal plane is where Nirvana resides which is pure empty of all kind of “self” notions and I only hope “Skillful self” like Brahma, Vishnu , Shiva and other Hindu gods resides there to guide innocent Hindus by practicing the “Hindu version” of Buddhism.
I am not into the debate of Adi Shankaracharya Vs Buddha Vs Lord Rama Vs Lord Krishna or time lines of their living. It serves nothing to my quest for knowledge. Not because of believe or not believe in their teachings but I already dumped the notion of “Self” which is creating hindrance to the path of knowledge seeking.
Again different Space, different Time, different way of teaching but who knows may be same Space-Time! In the form of same truth!
– I am getting into Einstein way of viewing the world :)
Thanks for the nice reply.
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Are you a Buddhist? Maybe Nirvana[Emptyness] is Nirguna Brahman [Brahman with no Qualities]. It is my understanding that Brahman is incomprehensible to all except Lord Shiva, Lord Vishnu, and their incarnations.
Vaikunta is the Beach; Say you go to the Pacific ocean and get into it then you are in Turiya state, although you are in the water[ocean], What is called the Pacific Ocean starts almost a mile into it. It is the shore till then, at the edge of the shore are Vishnu and Shiva.
As I know there are many grades of Moksha, as simple as surviving Vishwa Pralaya and continuing to exists in one form or the other; or the extreme supreme case of being like Vishnu and Shiva. But then Supreme state as I know is only for Vishnu and Shiva.
Buddhas take that there are millions of Boddisatvas, in Nirvana, Shunya[Nirguna Brahman?] all might be similar to Viswa-roopa[ Parab-Brahman] etc.
No point discussing about something if does not really directly patently benefits us now. No brownie points winning an argument if you or I dont really get Nirvana discussing it. Work on it.
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First I will apologize to the soul of Mr Stephen Hawkings for my crude expression. He might be correct or wrong. But I will dump all creation stories.
@NRavi
Thanks for your suggestion. I am just doing that work Discussing here is just part of it. To trace application possibility of “No self” doctrine getting Nirvana is not a criteria. Let me try some real practical application of it. I will use most infamous and controversial Manu’s four Varna’s system and give new color to it.
Brahmin=>knowledge of the system, kshatriya=>defense of the system, vaishya =>communication of the system(food, energy, time, money, fluid etc), shoodra=>labor or action of the system.
All four attributes are pure subjective and do not have “Self” Notion.
It is just like passing these four arguments(varnas) into different layers of system. Ranging From Micro level=> subatomic => atoms =>molecules=>DNA=> cells=> tissues=>organ=>organ system => human body/plants/animals/computer system/embedded system.
to Macro levels=> family including surrounding environment=>Community=>city/village=> district=>state=>country=>continent=>world=> solar system => milky way galaxy=> black hole=> universe=> multiverse…………
All these different levels are called “Functions” or”Process “in technical language. All are devoid of unique notions such as “I”, “Me”, “You” etc.They don’t have separate intrinsic attributes for their independent existence from its outer layer.
Note:-Definition of” I”=> independent separate entity which doesn’t depend for its existence on immediate upper layer or nearest entity of the same layer.
Try putting these 4 arguments ( BrahmIn , kshatria, vaisya, shoodra) into “Functions” or “Process” called “Farming” , “Teaching”, etc these are again void of “self” or “varnas” because they need all those qualities! If you create any artificial “self” a.k.a “caste or religion” and dump those functions, you are disturbing their balance.
The notion of “Self” are the prime cause for all ignorance and suffering around us in the form of psychological depression, corruption, hatredness and division whether it is in religion, caste, gender, rich, poor, language. Hence “No self “doctrine is indeed a great medicine!
Finally
I am die hard baktha of Lord Shiva and Lord Krishna.
If Nirvana => Nirguna Brahman,
Then Nirvana with Radiating compassion and equanimity on all living creatures =>Parabrahman
Nirguna Brahman, Parabrahman, Nirvana are all offshoot from Pure Emptiness.
Done
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You are confusing or obfuscating facts. Universe is a Projection of Atman, Atman is a Microcosm [ Quantum Mechanical forces are the strong Forces, Gravitation, Large Objects like Sun/Planets are all weak forces]. Atman, Brahman exist together. It is Atman Projecting the Universe in Brahman. Causal, Astral, And Physical Universes are all projections, a hologram of different Energies.
I dont know why you bring Manu smrithi into this, Spirituality is purely Merit based. You must have a minimum Spiritual IQ even to be start on a spiritual path, limited to only a few people.
A person, who pursues Brahman realization and suceeds[ pre-ordained] is called a Brahmin. { Guru Raghavendra Swamy, Ramana Maharishi, are all Brahmins, Vishwamithra from Kshathriya to Brahmnahood through Tapas. Lord Rama, Krishna are all Gods.} Sri Sri Ravi Shankar inspite of all his do good things is no real Brahmin. Being born in a Brahmin family does not make you a real Brahmin.
Maybe we should categorize Brahmins as well, Anyway everybody today is a Vaishya [after Money for survival].
Realizing God is not for the Faint-hearted.
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Hi emptymind : if you cannot clearly understand my terse explanation, see this easy movie “Javatar” you will understand it. It’s only completeness disguising as emptiness.
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na brahmasmi; na shivoham.
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>>[ Quantum Mechanical forces are the strong Forces, Gravitation, Large Objects like Sun/Planets are all weak forces].
You are misinterpreting here. I didn’t say “Sun” is more important than inner microcosmic ‘Mind’ or ‘Atman’ . Balance is the key between them.
That’s the reason i am putting them as “void of self”. More Important or less important is projection of “Self”.
Importance of any entity is relative in nature.
Why are are using “Force” content of the particles which are going to prove nothing here. instead ‘energy’ would have been ideal choice.
We know mom-energy is conserved. Energy is function of mass, E=m.c^2. Greater the mass, greater is the energy. It is the ultimate requirement for our existence. Sun constitutes major part of energy requirement of the earth. Food created by photosynthesis, petrochemical products, wind, solar, hydro electricity are all guided by sun directly or indirectly.
>>Atman, Brahman exists together. It is Atman Projecting the Universe in Brahman. Causal, Astral, And Physical Universes are all projections, a hologram of different Energies.>>
That’s what i am saying, “Non dualism” => “Anatta’ is ultimate reality.
Mind, universe are exist together. Mind (Atman according to you) is projecting the universe. “No mind” is Nirvana.
I have deep respect for Guru Raghavendra Swamy, Ramana Maharishi. No offence intended towards Brahmins.
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Hi mr NRavi, here is the slight modification of word ‘I’ or ‘Self’- Any layer which has independent “Existence” without required functionaries from its inner layers and without borrowing energy in any form from its outer layers.
From this definition, it becomes proved that no such layer exists hence there is no “I” or its projections like “you”,” me” etc.
For example human being requires both inner layers like vital organs (brain, heart, lungs, and kidney) and external layers like earth, sun for its existence. If any one of inner or outer layer is absent, then there is no existence of such human being.
All kind of sufferings, ignorance, hatredness is projection of desire=>believing in “self”. Even depression, suicide, greed, loneliness is just offshoots of “Self” Identity.
Here is the anglicized version of ‘Anatta’ doctrine in the form of 4 noble truths to show the Egolessness, utter emptiness of existence:-
Visuddhi-Magga XVI quotes the following verse:
Mere suffering exists, no sufferer is found;
The deed is, but no doer of the deed is there;
Nirvana is, but not the man that enters it;
The Path is, but no traveler on it is seen.
Don’t confuse with “no sufferer”, “no doer”, “not the man” and “no traveler”
As these are projection of self=>‘kill’ the notion of ‘self’ you will in spiritual path.
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Siidheshwara Swamy is an intellectual. There is always something new to learn from him.
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See the hilarious video below. Great Nandi arguing with intellectual scholars about “nirguna” against one guna, 2 gunas, 3 gunas etc. He then equated “nirguna” with Lord Shiva. No doubt he is referring to emptiness! enjoy it. really very funny episode!
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