There are many ways to guess if an election is round the corner, but a sureshot signal is when our politicians gird up their loins, slap their thighs and fan the flames of communalism.
So, therefore, Andhra Pradesh is abuzz with the arrest of the hate speech delivered by Akbaruddin Owaisi, an MLA of the Majlis party which has a long track record of nuisance making in Hyderabad. So, people are dying in Maharashtra’s Dhule district because of an altercation that broke out on the streetside.
And so, the row over the proposed Tipu Sultan University in Srirangapatna.
In November last year, the Union minister for minority affairs, K. Rehman Khan, said the Moulana Azad education foundation, under his Ministry, was setting up five central universities across the country where 50% of the seats would be reserved for the minorities.
One of those five would come up in the temple-town and island-kingdom of Srirangpatnam, 18 km from Mysore, which was home to the 18th century ruler.
In December, Rehman Khan, who hails from Karnataka, reiterated his intentions, and said there was no question of changing the name of the University.
“There is no patriot like Tipu. There are instances where kings sacrificed kingdom for the sake of state but Tipu sacrificed his sons. He was the first person to coin the word Karnataka,” he said, according to an UNI report.
And, as naturally as night follows day, a right royal “literary” row has broken out—one that has been witnessed before—between the usual suspects. In one corner are the fundamentalists who have a pathological hatred for anything with a non-Hindu name, and in the other corner are the secular-fundamentalists who suspect a BJP-VHP-RSS-Bajrang Dal hand in all such opposition.
There’s even an online petition campaign that is going around, against the “mass murderer, Islamic extremist and traitor of India“.
Question: Should the central University be named after Tipu Sultan or not?
***
Also read: CHURUMURI POLL: Tipu Sultan vs Kempe Gowda?
‘Most Hindus and most Muslims are communal’
Did the ‘Tiger of Mysore’ really tame a tiger?
churumuri 
Tippu was a coward and every mysuru praje knows it. We rather welcome Britishers than these Islam mogul empire.
Today our earth is deteriorating because of these Islamists.
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It should be named Siddaganga Swamy University just like anything and every thing these days being named after him. Lingayats own Old Mysore. All Muslims are foreigners including their kings, even if they were born here. They are second class citizens. If they want equal rights or want respect for their Kings they should go to Bangladesh or Pakistan.
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He was not a king at all.He was only a invador.
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What difference does it make? It is okay as long as it stays a central university and turn out to be a Madrasa. And then, ultimately it is going to be called T.S. University, it could as well be Tippa Sandra!
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For what fun, there should be a cast/religion biased university in India? Isn’t India a secular country? Tomorrow, some one might demand for a christian university, Gouda University, Brahman University, Lingayat University, Dalit university etc.. And will government entertain such demand? If India wishes to continue as a secular country, they it should stop encouraging cast/religion biased educational institutions
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Wherever this Srirangpatnam is, I’m sure it doesn’t have much of a connection to Tippu.
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Glad that for change it is not called some ABC Gandhi University.
~*~
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Well, if Gandhi/Nehru family can have so many places/schemes named after themselves, then why not on another tyrant?
The thing we need to realize is most erstwhile rulers were feudal, autocratic and at times cruel in the way they managed their kingdom. We haven’t changed much after independent – we’ve had ‘santhanabhivriddhi’ of various leaders at the expense of nation.
If we can’t stop electing such folks, then how can Tipu Sultan be treated any different?
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Ridiculous – we don’t have a Wodeyar University or a Pulakeshi University, why a Tipu University? This is the heights of minority appeasement. If the Italians think making a Tipu University will win them votes, then no bigger fools than them!!
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If another mass murderer could aspire to become the Prime Minister of India, Why not?
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First of all, do we require one more univerisity at all – be it either a state or a central? what purpose does it serve?
With so many univeristies already existing and ‘functioning’ with the rampant corruption, politics, not to mention about their quality and performance, this will also end up as another waste university
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Tipu was a mass murderer, fascist, followed a fanatic religion, which cannot live at peace with other religions, which is responsible for mass genocide, bloodshed on humans, desecration of non muslim places since it was founded.
Naming a univeristy after such an imbecile is totally not accepted. Period!
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Why should any government institution be named after a personality whether Hindu or Muslim, local or national? Why not simply by the place where it is located? Is it not the practice followed in developed countries! You name it after a person, and follows fiery debates, for and against, bad blood among the people. Then after sometime, government(s) may change and they will start replacing it with some other name. Better end this practice. Politicians certainly know how to keep the people divided and draw benefits from it. That is the only thing they seem to have learnt from Britishers.
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What is in a name, as it is supposed to provide its own 2 paise to the mediocrity to the education and research in our university system.
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ನಾನು ಒಪ್ಪುತ್ತೇನೆ, ಟಿಪ್ಪು ಸುಲ್ತಾನನ ಹೆಸರನ್ನಿಡಬೇಕು. ಅಲ್ಲದೆ, ಅಲ್ಲಿ “ಟಿಪ್ಪು ಅವರ ಬದುಕಿನ ಅಧ್ಯಯನ” ಎಂಬ ವಿಶೇಷ ವಿಭಾಗವನ್ನು ತೆರೆದರೆ ಒಳ್ಳೆಯದು.
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As a hindu, I don’t see any issue naming it Tippu Sultan university.Muslims of India have the same DNA as hindus,they are a part of us and rightly get due recognition as our own.But what I object is making it minority institution.This is what makes cong(i) crooked.It is time the hindus of India band together and pack off this dubious “Gandhy” family in the next elections.Hindu religion is secular, it is the origin of all religions and it is the only religion which will accept diversity.It is also the only religion which accept the viewpoint of atheists.Because the hindus of India have lost their ways due to foreign occupation,the divisiveness which has come in Hindu society needs to be addressed and the differences reduced.I see many in this forum who easily fell into the trap of regionalism when the cauvery issue came up and these same jokers say that there is no place for muslims.These confused hindus are the root cause of all the ills in this land and their stunted thinking is exploited by the psedo seculars in the garb of historians,24/7 english channels and the mother of all Cong(i) who are mocking at these confused hindus on a daily basis.
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Nothing wrong after all he fought what could have been the first war for independence.
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We need to put a stop naming public institutions after individuals. It might be best to name those after the place, region or state or country to avoid any issues as individuals are not likely to find universal acceptance in a country with so much diversity.
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So Tippe Sultan will have a university and the major courses taught there will be Sunnath and Sajda…
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why not name one after akbaruddin OYC as well?
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Rajiv Gandhi national park, atal saarige, Deena dayal upadhyaya maarga, aurobindo mukhya raste, kaamraj road —these are harsh realities in karnataka, a kannadiga will definitely think that no kannadiga has done anything worthwhile and only non kannadigas are good enough to get their name associated with major roads, national Parks, dams, govt schemes in karnataka.
Atleast naming a would be university in karnataka after tippu sultan is a welcome step. Kannadigas should endorse it before it is named after another non kannadiga.
Should the university be a Muslim university or a learning centre for all should be the core issue of contention.
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why one (5)more university, that too based on minority ,whether religious or linguistic. If at all needed add study centres of minorities in all our universities. unnecessary new land acquisition may be avoided.
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Boy boy, we have some priorities.
We are one of the ugliest, most fucked up countries on the planet. and Somehow naming the university after Tipu/someone else is all people are bothered about.
Tipu is fucking dead. He does not care what you name after. Think about how to build a good university if that’s not too much to ask for..
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Srirangapattana is a holy place for Hindus with many holy Hindu Temples. Making an Islamic university in such a place will destroy the ambience of the Hindu holy place as peace loving Hindus will leave the place for the Bullying Muslims. Muslims will start destroying and harassing Hindus and eventually make the place a horrible hate infested Muslim Ghetto with Cow carcasses all around. It is not in the interest of the country and Hindus. Please donot vote for Congress as it is responsible for this unwanted episode. Unfortunately, no political party including BJP is opposing it.
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If any institution is to be named on Tipu it is certainly not a university or Vidyalaya . It can only be an Army school. the right thing would be to create a Tipu regiment and hq it in Pattana . Of course with the increasing reservation formulae nono institution can reserve 50 % for ine groupo any group whatsoever. People need to assess the vile nature of this demand which is aginst social justice and stop it. infuture institutions should bve named only by REGISTER NOS
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yes why not it should be named after tippu sultan who was the first person to raise wise against british unlike the hindu rulers who were fearing them . he war hero of the india only because of him today we are independent.
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Definitely not! Please see http://www.voiceofdharma.org/books/tipu/ch02.htm
Just in the span of 16 years Tipu Sultan carried out many atrocities and was actually the fore runner to today’s extremist Islamic sects. BTW I am no fan of RSS having roundly condemned Mohan Bhagwat for his retrograde views calling him a “Luddite Khap leader from Nagpur”, Feel free to follow me on Twitter @Broadwit
People of URA and his ilk are like the British! Divide and Rule is their policy.
Srirangapatna being a peaceful town will be rocked by many communal riots and ultimately this will destroy peace in Mysore area!
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I agree with Doddi Buddi.
We are not clear whether he was an antihindu because they also say he was pious to Kolluru Mookambika, a freedom fighter or just a ruler who attained martyrdom.
He must have been a populist, he did not bother to change the name of his capital Srirangapatna, but had changed Sakleshpura to Manzrabad, which was away from his capital. He was god fearing and pious to Hindu Gods in front of his coutrymen but carried out mass caste conversion in the faraway regions of Malabar.
His history is uncertain let’s neither adore him nor hate him.
again Lets keep religion at bay from academia
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I agree with DB. Tipu was a maniac and you can get proof of this from any keralite from the Malabar region.To quote just one instance, Diwan Purnaiah was the minister of Tipu. His daughter was gang raped by Tipu’s soldiers on the banks of river cauvery. When a distraught purnaiah complained to tipu, tipu said he cannot take any action against the soldiers but he could accommodate purnaiah’s daughter in his harem as a concubine. So do we need to name a educational institutiion after this monster and provide 50% reservation for muslims…think again. Rehman Khan himself is under investigation for embezzling wakf money and the ex-minorities minister Dr.Mumtaz Ali Khan had instituted an inquiry against this guy.
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Actually Tipu Sultan should be partly blamed for the situation that Muslims are facing today in Karnataka, he loved this land more than his community, if he had accepted the supremacy of Britishers like Mysore Maharajas, Tipu Sultan dynasty could have ruled this state for centuries and Muslim community could have benefited from it. But he chose this land instead of his community and sacrificed for this land with out any use on the contrary getting bad name from manin makkallu.
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If you take Mr. Salman’s logic that if he had accepted the supremacy of Britishers like Mysore Maharajas, Tipu Sultan dynasty could have ruled this state for centuries and Muslim community could have benefited from it. ….. No doubt !
Let us take the scene post 1947….
Most Muslim Rulers sided with Pakistan. Jungadh Ruler signed instrument of accession with Pakistan. Hyderabad Nizam wanted to remain Independent. Tipu’s progeny would have had the added advantage of a Sea port in Bhatkal to make it a maritime state and with much part of Mysore as Salman says having been converted would have demanded accession to Pakistan and may be a South Pakistan was a distinct possibility.
As for Tipu choosing this land instead of his community… Let us not forget French left India much later than 1947. If Tipu had succeeded with his friendship with Napolean and he indeed had come to his rescue then in 1947 south India would have remained as a French Colony and one wonders with a recalcitrant Portugal in Goa the scene would have been much muddled and beyond imagination.
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Dear Mr. Raja Chandra and other honorable readers and commentators , please go through this website “http://www.squidoo.com/tipu” it has more links inside it to get more detailed information about Tipu Sultan.
Tipu Sultan fought with Muslim Kings eg. Hyderabad Nizam and Nawab of Arcot who had accepted British Supremacy in addition to this Turkey Calipha to whom Muslims used to consider their leader also asked Tipu Sultan to accept British Supremacy but he refused because as I wrote before, he loved this land more than his community.
Tipu Sultan does not need University to be named after him because his name is famous all over the world for his patriotism and bravery. In more than 10 Wikipedia his name has been referred with honor even though it does not deal with his rule like wikipedia ‘Tiger vs Lion etc.
Not a single famous good road or circle is named after Tipu or Hyder and I am surprised that Muslims are imagining that University will be named after him.
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With due respect to Tipu Sultan, It wIll be appropriate for Muslims to name it after “Santa Shishunala Sharif” or “Sant Kabir” to avoid any controversy. Honorable Chidananda Murthy also made the same suggestion(Source-prajavani: 15th jan).
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Mr. Salman ,whether it is British, French, Portugal etc all were aliens who came for trade and stayed on to Rule us. If British India was bigger than French India or Portugal India it is a matter of History but which Indian Ruler sided with whom is again a matter of History. As a matter of fact even Nizam and Sindhia had French mercenaries supporting them . But it does not alter the fact that Tipu sought the help of French and Afghan Rulers and it was his bad luck his choice proved wrong. Do not forget after third Mysore war, if he had loved his land so much, he should have concentrated on Ruling his Khudad sarkar.. Remember no Indian Ruler would have given back the Kingdom to the vanquished after a conquest.! Despite a abject surrender to Cornwallis, British restored the state back to him. I feel even after Fourth Mysore war, if he Tipu had survived they would have done it again – but may be a truncated domain. Even after his demise they once again toyed with the idea of restoring it to Tipu’s son and if in the ultimate analysis, if they decided otherwise and restored it to the surviving heir of the ancient Hindu dynasty, then it was a fortuitous decision.of Lord Mornington. Even after assuming administration in 1831 if they once again restored it back to the adopted son of KRW III, then it was once again a case due to another fortuitous decision taken by British Parliament.
So do not try to twist historical facts to suit one’s fancy. .
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Well. This is going to be a University for minorities with public-private funding with 50% seats reserved for minorities similar to Aligarh Muslim University or Osmania University. One fallout of this will be a change in demography with minorities from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, West Bengal, etc making a beeline to `sattle’ in better administered and less populated Karnataka.
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Tippu or anything else be the name…. but no university based on religion. Govt at centre just wanna break this country..some one asked why not Hyder… Hyder Ali attact killed onake obavva..Kannadigas will not forget it…and Tipu was his son. How did he take Mysore from Wodeyars. Do you think it was gifted to him. Our children have been taught wrong history. anyway all these aside, EDUCATION AND RELIGION SHOULD NOT BE MIXED, if they are starting this university, we would want a written assurance from all Minorities that they will not join any other college. all other colleges will be for Hindus, Christians and others.
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Looks like brahmin ideologists are having a field day !
At the onset, let me clarify that probably Congress is playing politics with this university issue and so is BJP.
Let me split this issue into 2 independent issues:
1) Need of university
2) Name of the university.
Why is this university required?
Note that this is not a religious university. It has 50% reservation for Muslims & other 50% is open for all. Why Muslims require 50% reservation? Because the Muslim population is economically backward and level of education is poor. By providing them education, their quality of life will improve. Hindu fanatics will be delighted to know that with better education, their birth rate will drop. If people of India make progress, then India makes progress.
BTW, brahmin ideologists will never understand this concept of reservation, since they have enjoyed de facto 100% reservation for past 5000 years.
So what will be taught in the university?
Arts & science, like any other university. Arm chair critics, who felt jihadi tactics will be part of syllabus, will be disappointed.
What is Tippu Sultan’s contribution to Karnataka?
1) Tippu introduced silk to Mysore and he setup the whole silk industry. If Karnataka is known for silk, then it’s due to Tippu.
2) Tippu laid foundation for KRS dam, which eventually transformed the landscape of Mysore, Mandya, Hassan & Bangalore regions. BTW, Bangalore still gets its drinking water from KRS dam.
3) Tippu introduced land reforms. So for the 1st time in 5000 years of Indian history, a dalit or a shudra could legally own land.
4) Though Persian was official language of India at that time, Tippu gave higher prominence to Kannada over Persian.
5) Tippu built Lalbagh & Cubbon Park in Bangalore and it is still popular icons of Bangalore.
6) Tippu was the 1st person to use rockets in war in the world.
7) After Marata Hindu extremists ransacked Sringeri mutt, Tippu defeated them and restored Sringeri mutt to original glory.
8) Tippu built the 1st church in Mysore. Of course he supported Hindu temples, prominent being Nanjungud & Sri Rangapatna.
9) Tippu was once of the few rulers, (like Kittur Rani, Jhansi Laxmi Bai) who fought against British and was killed in the battle field fighting British.
+ many more.
What are the criticisms of Tippu?
1) Forced conversions in Madikeri.
There were conversions in Madikeri. Population of Madikeri at that time was 50,000. If all 50,000 were converted, Madikeri would have been a Muslim dominated district. But isn’t and hence we can conclude that conversion numbers were small.
BTW, these conversions were done by a captain in Tippu’s army and Tippu is as responsible BJP president for Modi’s pogrom.
2) Ethnic cleansing in Malabar
We have British documents for evidence and Tippu was British’s enemy. British did try to paint Tippu as bigot. Another source of information is Kerala historians. Note that none of Karnataka’s historians have raised this. (Is S. L. Bhyrappa a novelist or a historian?)
Let us assume Nairs, Nambuthiris were forcefully converted and Tippu introduced beef-eating in Kerala. What stopped these guys to revert back after Tippu died? The fact is folks in Malabar had trade relations with Arabs for 1000s of years and beef eating, Islam was not new to them.
3) Rename of place to Muslim names.
Tippu did rename few places to Muslim names. Except Nasarbad (in Mysore), I don’t think any other name as stuck. BTW, British did rename many places and renaming of places happen even today. It’s unfair to single out Tippu.
No ruler can be 100% fair. Tippu’s contribution to welfare of Mysore region over weighs his limited forced conversion saga. Hence there is nothing wrong if a university in the region is named after Tippu. In fact, Tippu is right there among the top Kannada kings.
Coming to conversions, catholic church is still involved in the process. What are you guys doing in this age?
BTW, ever wondered why there is no Buddhism in the land of Buddha? From being state religion at the Emperor Ashoka, now there is absolutely no trace. The reason is Shankaracharya & Ramanujuacharya & their protégés massacred thousands of Buddhist monks. Rest of the monks fled to other Asian countries. Later, Buddhists were converted back to caste inflicted Hinduism. So Buddhists were ethnically cleansed by Hindus in India.
How about denouncing Shankaracharya & Ramanujuacharya for their forced conversions?
.
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Mr Raja, as you said, in fact Tippu Sultan could have confined to his kingdom (in actual it is khudadaad that is Ram Rajya) but he was far sighted man and knew that Britishers has planned to rule India for hundred of years and that is the reason he refused to accept the British supremacy, correctly said by you even after being defensive during third Mysore war and subsequent surrendering his sons he did not surrender this land, in fact he sacrificed his sons for the sake of this land. Third Mysore war could had been decisive but his advisers advised him to buy some time because of his health. Before Fourth Mysore war was launched the Britishers had given ultimatum to choose their supremacy or a war but still Tippu fought even though chances of winning were less because of the combine forces of Marathas, Nizam, Arcot Nawab and Britishers.
Muslims should thank God that Nizam and Arcot Nawab were in the opposite side or else these wars could have been termed as Jihad and the name of Tippu could have defamed more.
Britishers destroyed the Tipu Palace and other structures after the war was completely over and now taken over by local land mafia, never they could have done this if they had any soft corner to him or to his children.
When a person is not liked due to his religion affiliation even though he has done number of good things will be looked with prejudice.
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Firstly hats off to BJP’s Madhusudan for taking the bull by the horns. While everyone opposed this ridiculous Tipu University concept in hushed tones, Madhusudan had the guts to come in public and explode a bomb which has the Congress scurrying for cover!!
And Pacifier you say Shankaracharya and Ramunjacharya massacred Buddhists?!? Clearly you must have consumed something, no sane person will say such a thing!! You have posted a farrago of lies about Tippu and added this lie, don’t think you will go uncontested. I challenge you to provide proof for what you have posted!! I bet you can’t provide proof!! You have posted this just to incite people!! Shame on you!
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It is very clear, Congress, bjp are trying to polarize karnataka voters to cover up their failures.
Place chosen for the university is debatable, srirangapattana is the place of tipu and it is place of worship for Hindus, and it is one of the most fertile pieces of land in south India, a university here will gobble up acres of prime farm land.
Recently govt passed private university bill, paving way for many private deemed university, which will dilute standard of education in karnataka. Amidst this if Muslims ask for a university to promote education in karnataka, there is nothing wrong. But it should not create fissures in the society.
Education should be controlled by state and not corporate, deemed universities.
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Deepak (18 January 2013 at 11:51 am):
Each & every point I made about Tippu is fact & is histroy. I recommend history lessons and any history book (not novels) will tell you the stuff I have listed.
Specifically if you feel any point about Tippu is a lie, tell me, I shall provide more information.
Has Modi killed any Muslim? No. But he is responsible for 2002 pogrom. Similarly, Shankaracharya and Ramunjacharya didn’t kill any Buddhists, but their proteges did it. Together, with ‘State’ support, they revived ‘Hinduism’.
So what happened to existing Buddhist monks & Buddhist practitioners?
Note: Ethnic cleansing of Buddhists in India is my current research topic and I don’t have all the proofs right now. But my points about Tippu are facts and is backed by documentary evidence.
BTW, I watched Madhusudan on TV on the university topic. I felt he made a fool of himself. His talk wasn’t a discussion or debate, but guerilla tactics – hit & run, don’t wait for explanation. Any decent debater will eat him for breakfast, lunch & dinner.
.
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@pacIFier – Wow!! A research scholar who propounds that Sankaracharya killed Buddhists in the same way as Modi killed Muslims and icing on your thesis is your bold statement that you have no proof!! I don’t know whether to laugh or cry!! How can a supposed researcher make such sweeping statements without any proof? You are no better than any politician who puts their foot in the mouth.
And forget Madhusudan’s oratory skills, no one is interested in them. The point he made is clear – BJP will not allow this sham University and that is good news.
And instead of spouting convenient facts why don’t you address specific issues raised by Doddi buddi and Asha above. That’ll will be more logical, no?
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Pacifier, could I make a small emendation to what you have written. Ramanujacharya might have influenced the percsecution of Jainism with his conversion of the Hoysala Empire from Jainism to Hinduism. It didn’t help that the Rashtrakutas who were patrons of the Jains had declined in power at the same time. You are right in pointing out the State support for this persecution.
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1) Tippu introduced silk to Mysore and he setup the whole silk industry. If Karnataka is known for silk, then it’s due to Tippu.
ok agreed
2) Tippu laid foundation for KRS dam, which eventually transformed the landscape of Mysore, Mandya, Hassan & Bangalore regions. BTW, Bangalore still gets its drinking water from KRS dam.
sorry, no athentic proof as tippu was the first, there were instance where our hoysala king and wodiyar kings also tried to build ( pls check that dam build was repeated destroyed by chola and pandiyan kings )
3) Tippu introduced land reforms. So for the 1st time in 5000 years of Indian history, a dalit or a shudra could legally own land.
sorry, the concept of shudra or varnshrama was came into force only when hindu religion was revived by adi shankar ( no caste system in pre-vedic, jain nor in buddhist period )
4) Though Persian was official language of India at that time, Tippu gave higher prominence to Kannada over Persian.
sorry, you need to study the history, as the official language of mysore dynsty was kannada ( in coinage, official scriptures of kingdom of mysore )
5) Tippu built Lalbagh & Cubbon Park in Bangalore and it is still popular icons of Bangalore.
incomplete data, tippu finished lalbagh garden started by Nawab ( not sultan ) hyder. And cubban park built by Lord Cubbon.
6) Tippu was the 1st person to use rockets in war in the world.
agreed.
7) After Marata Hindu extremists ransacked Sringeri mutt, Tippu defeated them and restored Sringeri mutt to original glory.
agreed partially, as sringeri was not ransacked only idol of sharada was replaced with marble idol of sharada. infact it was letter of exchange between tippu and guruji ( to win over majority hindus )
8) Tippu built the 1st church in Mysore. Of course he supported Hindu temples, prominent being Nanjungud & Sri Rangapatna.
church build on request of French where as Nanjungud (called shiva as hakim by tippu because his royal elephant was cured by lord, not calling lord shiva) and sri rangapatna ( pls see the architure it is more similar to temple ) east facing, pillars with provision for lamps and so for – visit once the mosque of srirangapattanm
9) Tippu was once of the few rulers, (like Kittur Rani, Jhansi Laxmi Bai) who fought against British and was killed in the battle field fighting British.
agreed, everyone fought for their indepence not for nation (as nation was no indian nationalism at that time )
+ many more.
What are the criticisms of Tippu?
1) Forced conversions in Madikeri.
There were conversions in Madikeri. Population of Madikeri at that time was 50,000. If all 50,000 were converted, Madikeri would have been a Muslim dominated district. But isn’t and hence we can conclude that conversion numbers were small.
BTW, these conversions were done by a captain in Tippu’s army and Tippu is as responsible BJP president for Modi’s pogrom.
not agreed, as total army of all coorgi ( vpet, s pet, bmandala), is about 30000 men, how come 50k only total population – where about woman, age old, kids and other, then it should not less than 1.5 lakhs (currently with 5.4 lakhs)
2) Ethnic cleansing in Malabar
We have British documents for evidence and Tippu was British’s enemy. British did try to paint Tippu as bigot. Another source of information is Kerala historians. Note that none of Karnataka’s historians have raised this. (Is S. L. Bhyrappa a novelist or a historian?)
Let us assume Nairs, Nambuthiris were forcefully converted and Tippu introduced beef-eating in Kerala. What stopped these guys to revert back after Tippu died? The fact is folks in Malabar had trade relations with Arabs for 1000s of years and beef eating, Islam was not new to them.
see the population of islam and judge, any conversion or not. if not then entire kerala population (muslim) should be equal propotin as in malbar (muslim), as there kerala was infected with islam prior to tippu.
kerala specially virtually was affected by bad hindu practices viz., namely once virgin lady touched by diff caste person then she has to marry him only. similarly once a person has converted he is not asked to come back nor welcomed.
dont take only british historians nor kerala historians you should use your own intelligence to logic / think what happened.
3) Rename of place to Muslim names.
Tippu did rename few places to Muslim names. Except Nasarbad (in Mysore), I don’t think any other name as stuck. BTW, British did rename many places and renaming of places happen even today. It’s unfair to single out Tippu.
untrue, as british not renamed they angalized name viz., drona dama as dehradun, mumbai to bombay, durjaya linga to darjleeng, mysooru to mysore etc as per there pronociation, unlike tippu renamed totally persian name viz., myore to nazarbad, sakleshpura to manzrabad, devanhalli to yushafabad, is it not persianized.
No ruler can be 100% fair. Tippu’s contribution to welfare of Mysore region over weighs his limited forced conversion saga. Hence there is nothing wrong if a university in the region is named after Tippu. In fact, Tippu is right there among the top Kannada kings.
tippu is not comparable to our top kings like krishanraj wodeyar IV, pls pls pls pls dont compare.
Coming to conversions, catholic church is still involved in the process. What are you guys doing in this age?
we have problem as i dont have religious conversion and reconversion as catholics nor islam
BTW, ever wondered why there is no Buddhism in the land of Buddha? From being state religion at the Emperor Ashoka, now there is absolutely no trace. The reason is Shankaracharya & Ramanujuacharya & their protégés massacred thousands of Buddhist monks. Rest of the monks fled to other Asian countries. Later, Buddhists were converted back to caste inflicted Hinduism. So Buddhists were ethnically cleansed by Hindus in India.
buddhist are not erased, but tactically by debate with shankara defeated fortunetly or unfortunetly.
ironically, the 2 major university – nalanda, taxila was ransacked by delhi sultane, buddhist ran to save their lives to himalaya ( of course, one university was deposed by sankar in deccan )
for our friend knowledge these univesity were repeatedly rebuild by none other than our hindu kings, until final blow given by khilji
buddha was treated as one the reincarnation of lord vishnu, so buddha is part of hinduism
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paciFier,
You are wasting your time using facts and research to talk to someone who has made up his mind. Some Brahmin demagogues care only about their ideology, not separating fact from fiction. Using mythology and fiction to cause fear and confusion has been among their favorite weapons down the centuries. They will continue their spin immaterial of what you present.
But please write more, refreshing to read a thoughtful person on Churumuri.
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Parijataka,
The demographic change in Karnataka is happening all the time, Tipu University or not. The northies and others will keep filling in, as long there is more over-population elsewhere compared to Karnataka. At least during Tipu’s time, invaders had to fight to settle a place, now they can just take a train and pitch their tents.
This wont go on for too long, soon (3 decades? 5?) Karnataka will be the same as any other other place.
All hope was lost the moment Mysore was forced to become part of India. After that it was just a matter of a few decades before the decline to the least common denominator (Bihar? West Bengal?).
All hail freedom of movement, hunger and poverty.
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sateesh,
Interesting response to paciFier. Good read.
For other Churumuri readers’ benefit it would be helpful if you (and paciFier) take some time and mention the historical/archaeological research you are drawing your arguments from.
Too many times on Indian forums (including Churumuri) there are comments with a wall of text linking to some bogus website/wikipedia article of their own making with circular references.
BTW since you brought up religious conversion in the present day: what is the problem with conversion especially to Christianity? From what I have seen, a tribal or scheduled caste person who converts to Christianity has the chance of a better life than what Hinduism provides. Maybe not that much better, but an improvement none-the-less. What article in the constitution prevents this? I am not talking about conversion by rape or by the sword. If a person converts for money or to gain education or better status in life, why is an issue to others?
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paciFier,
Anonymous Guy is right, you are wasting your energy, history is just another illusion(maaya), anybody can manipulate in this domain and it becomes major tool to control the illiterate mass. that’s how Vedic ideology ruled India. if you want to counter them don’t play with illusion (same tool used by the them) instead use core concept of Buddhist doctrine. i bet they can’t counter them at-least logically! don’t worry, I will help you here.
Shankaracharya’ s “Advaitha” is “cut and paste”( Note:- not copy paste!) of “Sunyata” doctrine of Buddha. Minor manipulation here and there.
Advaitha, Sunyata and Einstein’s Relativity, Newton’s laws of motion are all manifestation of same Truth.
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@anonymous guy – Tipu University in Srirangapattana is a bad ideas on many counts –
1> Karnataka is the second most arid/water starved state after Rajasthan. Productive and fertile agricultural land in Srirangapattana irrigated by Kaveri must not be given up for any more enterprises,whether industry or anything else. I am reading a whopping 2000 acres is going to be given for the proposed University!
Why not have the new University in a district like Raichur or Gulbarga that is under developed and will act as a fillip to development in N Karnataka ? Let us not destroy whatever fertile land we have in our state anymore.
2> Tipu Sultan was not a `secular` person by documented historical accounts. He destroyed temples and churches in Mangalore and Malabar that people in coastal Karnataka still remember.
3> I am opposed to any more universities solely for minorities in this age and day. This will create more ghettoisation I believe. Aligarh Muslim University was the place where the call for a separate nation for Indian Muslims was first talked about.
4> Change in demography – as it is Bangalore has been invaded by people from neighbouring states and Naarth India, Tipu University will be a clarion call for all the riff raff from UP, Bihar, West Bengal and even Bangladesh in the guise of minorities to descend on fair Karnataka.
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“Tipu University will be a clarion call for all the riff raff from UP, Bihar, West Bengal and even Bangladesh in the guise of minorities to descend on fair Karnataka.”
Parijataka just loved it the way you put it across, rif raff from UP, BIHAR.., lol.
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Even if one of those 9 points mentioned by paciFier is true, then Tippu Sultan deserves much more than his name on a University.
@Raja Chandra,
You are concerned about instrument of accession, which was to happen 150 years after Tippu’s death. If Tippu had any “foresight”, then,
– he would have signed treaty with British, lived happily under British patronage and later would have received privy purse from Govt of India.
– his kin would have been cabinet ministers (ala Scindia), or played cricket (ala Pataudi, Jadeja) or would have been bollywood stars (ala Saif).
– own vast tracts of lands in cities, towns.
But Tippu descendants were packed off to ignobility in Calcutta.
As a society, we have decide whether to humiliate those who fought the invaders or sing praises of those who went to bed with the invaders.
~*~
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@ Nastika: Tippu’s family was not packed off ignobly to Calcutta! They were well provided with political pension and vast extent of Tollygunj . In real estate terms and value wise they are still one of the richest. Probably as Arcot Nawab still enjoys privileges in Tamil Nadu due to the British sanad, even Tipu’s successor is also entitled to. But absence of a clear legal claimant may have denied them such a privilege.
As for as What Tipu’s descendant’s would have done is always a question of ifs and buts of History and choice of either French or British as one’s allies would not have altered the situation. Both were invaders if you would like to use that word ! . Both French and Portugal were the last to leave India. There are many in French part India who still get political pension for retaining French Citizenship and still vote during French Election from India.
whereas Pakistan refused Mountbatten as Governor General, India opted for him and the PM of Independent India’s dalliance with Lady M still remains a favorite subject of gossip and Historians alike.
That enemy of my enemy is my friend philosophy even drove S.Bose to someone like Hitler cannot be ignored either.
Reference to Pataudi, Jadeja and Saif and what they achieved in their chosen field etc only shows how paranoid one can be !
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@Emptymind – AFAIK Hindu philosophy is divided into orthodox ( āstika ) and heterodox ( nāstika ) schools of thought. To the first group belong Samkhya, Yoga, Nyaya, Vaisheshika, Mimāṃsā and Vedanta. To the second group belong Buddhism, Jainism and the Cārvāka. The Cārvāka philosophy predates Bouddha Dharma, so we could say Bouddha dharma is `copy-paste` of Cārvāka philosophy (j/k!). Cārvāka philosophy was the predecssor of Ājīvika, Buddhism and Jainism. Of the nāstika schools of thought only Vedanta that encompasses Advaita, Vishistadvaita, etc and involves ritualistic way of worship survives. Nyaya school survived in Kerala till 16th cent I believe.
Advaita and Bouddha dharma are two different cups of tea – evolved from different branches of Indian philosophy.Similarities perhaps from being part of the same source i.e. Indian philosophy.
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@Raja chandra said:
“They were well provided with political pension and vast extent of Tollygunj .”
Is that the whole story?
Check this telegraph article*:
“The defeat marked the start of a long and painful descent for his family. His sons and their families were rounded up, jailed and later exiled to Calcutta, where Tipu Sultan had bought large estates for them. The family’s defiance of British rule led to them being progressively shunned by other Indian royal families and their fortunes steadily declined.
Their family estates, which include the Royal Calcutta Golf Club and the Tollygunge Club, one of the foremost gentlemen’s clubs of the British Raj, are worth hundreds of millions of pounds. But they were taken over by a trust, which has refused to pay for their children’s education or save them from penury. The estates were leased out on long-term peppercorn rents.
The trust’s secretary, Shahid Alam, recently complained that the descendants wasted any money they had given and that the trust’s role was to maintain two mosques named after the ‘Tiger of Mysore’ rather than provide handouts. “Most of them still have delusions of being princes and blow up all the money we give them,” he said.”
BTW the article is worth reading for the other Tipu bashers:
“His reputation as a great general and fearless warrior was sealed in the Second Mysore War when he defeated British forces under Sir Hector Munro at the Battle of Pollilur in 1780. With the aid of French officers, he broke through British lines and unleashed 13 offensives until the British officers finally surrendered. One of them, Captain David Baird, was held prisoner for four years before returning to his regiment and eventually leading the force which defeated Tipu Sultan in his capital, Seringapatam in 1799.”
Whatever you say of him of, cant accuse him of lack of bravery or being innovative. As someone mentioned, there was no India at that time for Tipu or Mysore Maharaja’s or anyone else to be patriotic towards. Tipu himself aligned with the French and maybe made his biggest strategic mistake.
Naming a university after him or any other King makes little sense outside vote bank politics and chauvinism. His estate is not directly paying for the costs of the university. Tax payer money is. But then we are a country where everything is named after one family: Nehru, Indira, Rajeev, Rahul etc.
*http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/5940701/Tipu-Sultan-descendants-to-have-royal-status-restored.html
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Gaby:
That is a good point. Jainism is another religion that suffered from ethnic cleansing efforts of Hindus 1200 years back.
Deepak:
Whether to seek truth or believe in lie is your choice. Tippu lived 200 years ago and there fourth estate at that time. Hence evidence is available. The perpetrators in ‘cleansing’ case, Adi Shankara, Ramanuja lived in the times when the first estate called the shots. The victims are spread out in south-east Asian countries and hence the research task is monumental.
You want me to read ‘Doddi Buddi’ post but he does is he gives a link to P.C.N. Raja’s article, which just a speculation. Same with ‘Asha’ post. Their articles claim among many things,
1) Tippu died while strolling from in fort (not in battlefield)
2) Tippu was worse than Osama Bin Laden (seems they found a similar figure 200 years later & compared them).
As I said earlier, it is up to you to believe what you want.
.
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Sateesh:
2) Tippu laid foundation for KRS dam, which eventually transformed the landscape of Mysore, Mandya, Hassan & Bangalore regions. BTW, Bangalore still gets its drinking water from KRS dam.
sorry, no athentic proof as tippu was the first, there were instance where our hoysala king and wodiyar kings also tried to build ( pls check that dam build was repeated destroyed by chola and pandiyan kings )
Reply: The question is not whether Tippu was first or not. The question is, did Tippu made any efforts for the dam. In fact he did (not just lip service) made efforts to start the dam and laid foundation for it.
3) Tippu introduced land reforms. So for the 1st time in 5000 years of Indian history, a dalit or a shudra could legally own land.
sorry, the concept of shudra or varnshrama was came into force only when hindu religion was revived by adi shankar ( no caste system in pre-vedic, jain nor in buddhist period )
Reply: The Land Revenue Regulations introduced by Tippu Sultan in 1792 said “The land would be owned by only those who cultivate or till it irrespective of caste, creed, or religion”. Obviously this upset the ‘priestly’ class and ‘feudal’ class, who owned enormous amount of lands.
One more: According to this land regulation, the village head would be appointed (based on qualification) instead of that post being hereditary. Due to these radical measures, it is no wonder so much backlash is seen against Tippu.
4) Though Persian was official language of India at that time, Tippu gave higher prominence to Kannada over Persian.
sorry, you need to study the history, as the official language of mysore dynsty was kannada ( in coinage, official scriptures of kingdom of mysore )
Reply: Official language of India was Persian. All communication among various rulers in India & outside happened in Persian. The coins printed were in Persian. But Tippu prominently printed Kannada (along with Persian) on the coins. BTW, after Tippu, Mysore rulers gave prominence to Persian over Kannada.
SL Byrappa may say Tippu used Persian words such as ‘khata’, ‘kathchery’. But the fact is, there are no equivalent Kannada words for these. Thus, by borrowing from Persian, Tippu enriched Kannada language.
5) Tippu built Lalbagh & Cubbon Park in Bangalore and it is still popular icons of Bangalore.
incomplete data, tippu finished lalbagh garden started by Nawab ( not sultan ) hyder. And cubban park built by Lord Cubbon.
Reply: Right Lalbagh was started by Hyder Ali, but completed by Tippu Sultan. After completion, he had expressed desire to build one more park but that park was eventually done by John Meade. So for all practical purposes, we can leave out Tippu from Cubbon Park.
Note: Each of the points in my earlier post requires atleast a chapter. But in one line, I can only say the association of Tippu as ‘Tippu built Lalbagh’.
7) After Marata Hindu extremists ransacked Sringeri mutt, Tippu defeated them and restored Sringeri mutt to original glory.
agreed partially, as sringeri was not ransacked only idol of sharada was replaced with marble idol of sharada. infact it was letter of exchange between tippu and guruji ( to win over majority hindus )
Reply: Actually not just idol. The mutt was ransacked, many priests were killed, and valuable possessions of the mutt were stolen. In fact, Sringeri Shankaracharya had to run to Karkala to save his life. Tippu restored the idol and in his protection, the mutt was safe.
8) Tippu built the 1st church in Mysore. Of course he supported Hindu temples, prominent being Nanjungud & Sri Rangapatna.
church build on request of French where as Nanjungud (called shiva as hakim by tippu because his royal elephant was cured by lord, not calling lord shiva) and sri rangapatna ( pls see the architure it is more similar to temple ) east facing, pillars with provision for lamps and so for – visit once the mosque of srirangapattanm
Reply: Actually Tippu called Shiva as ‘Hakim Nanjunda’. Shiva in Nanjangud temple is called Nanjundeshwara. But that’s just an incident about royal elephant. I had missed Melkote temple. These temples received gifts & donations from Tippu.
And what does east-facing mosque with provision for lamps in pillar suggest?
9) Tippu was once of the few rulers, (like Kittur Rani, Jhansi Laxmi Bai) who fought against British and was killed in the battle field fighting British.
agreed, everyone fought for their indepence not for nation (as nation was no indian nationalism at that time )
Reply: I never said Tippu fought for India. Tippu fought against invaders. He didn’t want his people to be slaves. Hope you consider that India was a slave nation till 1947.
not agreed, as total army of all coorgi ( vpet, s pet, bmandala), is about 30000 men, how come 50k only total population – where about woman, age old, kids and other, then it should not less than 1.5 lakhs (currently with 5.4 lakhs)
Reply: Right, current the population is 5.4 lakhs. 1.5 lakhs is high number in 1790, when there was no estate workers & the terrain was harsh. Its hard to believe the population just grew 3.5 times in 200 years. 50,000 looks more likely, including women. (Note: This can be confirmed by the Mysore gazetteer).
tippu is not comparable to our top kings like krishanraj wodeyar IV, pls pls pls pls dont compare.
Reply: Why? If deeds are comparable, why not?
ironically, the 2 major university – nalanda, taxila was ransacked by delhi sultane, buddhist ran to save their lives to himalaya ( of course, one university was deposed by sankar in deccan )
Reply: Because the university is burnt down, doesn’t mean the common people will start converting.
buddha was treated as one the reincarnation of lord vishnu, so buddha is part of hinduism
Reply: That is just a mythology myth created to trivialize Buddha, so when there is a question as to ‘Who is Buddha?’ Hindus can say that he is Vishnu, a mythology character.
we have problem as i dont have religious conversion and reconversion as catholics nor islam
Reply: I raised the topic of conversion because, that is one tool used to fight Tippu. So,
Conversion by Catholic church: Ok
Concersion by Shankara, Ramanuja: Good
Conversion by Tippu: Bad
Also,
Congress vs Sikhs in 1984: Ok
BJP vs Muslims in 2002: Ok
Tippu vs Malabar in 1792: Not Ok.
.
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pacifier: Well spoken and well articulated. Keep it up. You have our ears (and minds).
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Tipu was an usurper: Ok. So were the dalavais of Mysore. But when the dalavais do it, it’s fine.
Tipu Converted Hindus: Yes, a few thousand of them. Reprehensible, but what prevented the other Hindus from accepting these converts back into their fold when Tipu got his ass kicked.?
Tipu was not a freedom fighter: Maybe not but at least he did not send a regiment of troops to support the British army in quelling Sangolli Rayanna’s rebellion like Krishnarajendra Wodeyar did. I do not blame Wodeyar, he was trying to save his ass. But the wodeyars can do no wrong!!
Tipu replaced Kannada with persian: Maybe but can you thyen similarly fault the pride of Hindu Rashtra the marathas like the Bhonsles, Holkars and Scindias who continued using Persian on coinage till the late 1800s. Please crucify them too. And what was the primary language used by the wodeyars after Tipu to communicate with their English masters- Persian with a translation in Canarese and English.
Tipu screwed the happiness of the Keralites. Yes he did. And so did Krishnadeva Raya in his campaigns against Orissa. How do you know no insect was hurt while the Raya stormed through the gajapati trail? And KrishnadevaRaya transplanting the balakrishna idol to hampi from orissa was obviously to the delight of the Oriyas.
Since when do the Keralites decide what names Mysoreans give to their universities? Vira Ballala helped Malik Kafur ravage the Pandyan lands, but I guess that is ok.
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1. But it was earlier built by gangas, hoysalas and wodyar kings which was eventually destoryed by tamil kings ( ref. chola karikala conquer of nothern tamil countries including southern part of mysore )
And small and vital information our king krishnaraj wodayar VI (KW VI) pledged gold, jewellery and ornaments of all palace member including maharanis with Keni family ( lenders for royal families of hyderabad and mysore ) in bombay to build KRS dam (pls check mysore gazetteer )
In comparison Tippu pledged his sons to save his sultan position, where as KW VI pledged his wealth for people of state
3) Land revenue regulation introduced by Todarmal one of the navrathna of Akbar ( as per akbar nama )
Village head appointed (tippu rule) on qualification but sultan (tippu) can be appointed on hereditary.
In Muryan period the Kalinga use tobe democratic and all officials use tobe selected on merit and elected not only village head.
4) Due to influence of musilm ( persian origin ), India was force to accept in persian laguague in mugal rule ( although mysore of tributory of Mugal empire). All our erstwhile kingdoms of karnataka use have Kannada as official language ( form Kadambas to till Wodyar)
In hindu tradition we say “let all good things and thoughts are welcome”, so we are not fighting for similar words for bus or car in kannada nor for words gyan or guru in english.
5) Hence you can only say tippu completed Lalbagh not as builder nor builder of Cubbon Park
7) Pls check with maratha raghunath rao patwardan statements who was accused of attack also check with statements in official website of srigenri peetam. Neither of marata ruler told to attack, but instead, they instituted an enquiry and found the culprits, and punished and returned the goods so stolen.
8) Mangalore Catholics know much better than I and you, how friendly he was with Christians
Yes sir, then pls check with our hindu kings who given shelters to many muslim viz., shivappa nayaka of ikkeri and given village called Bhatkal and presented silver tomb (ironically where it got return on investment with militant – Riyaz Bhatkal )
Almost all hindu kings given patronage to all religions – vijay nagar kings, wodyars, zomarian of calicut and on. If you want I can give details of all accounts.
My point is that we say all religions are same. But All Abharamic tend there are only right and there right is to bring others to theirs right path. In other word we have seen our leaders and religious ( swamiji ) say all faith leads same destiny, but I have not find nor heard any abrahamic religion leader saying same ( including Tippu)
9) Tippu first invaded small and tiny trivancoor, which resulted in anglo-mysore war, it means that first invasion by tippu ( support of French ), resulted in allies of Travancoor i.e., British to invade.
Hypothetically if French would won the Seven Year war with English, and if French had ruled India and then it be might resulted in tippu win over of british, so French allies of tippu ( is French not Europeans ) ?.???? then trivancoor is traitor aligning with British.
He Tippu didn’t want his people to slave, but made his war prisoner – nairs and manglore Catholics ( are they are not Indians ?????)
10) Yes boss pls population growth of muslim growth over other coorgis for the past 250 years. How come suddenly surge of growth of population in 1770s to 1810s
11) KW IV cannot be comparable as KW IV
1. Agriculture Implements Factory in Hassan, Karnataka
2. Mysore Paper Mills, Mysore established in 1936
3. Government Sandalwood oil factory, Bangalore established in 1917
4. Mysore Lamps established in 1936, Bangalore
5. Mysore Sugar Mills established in 1933, Mandya
6. KR Mills established in 1933, Mysore
7. Indian Institute of Science established in 1901, Bangalore
8. Mysore University established in 1916, Mysore
9. KR Hydro Electric Station
10. First Hydro Electric Project in India at Shivanasamudram
11. School of Engineering established in 1916:
12. State Bank of Mysore established in 1913
13. City Improvement Trust Board, first of its kind in India
14. Hindusthan Aircrafts established in 1940 later renamed as
15. Kannada Sahithya Parishat established in 1915
16. Krishna Raja Sagar dam established in 1924
17. Irwin Canal: Later named as Visveshwariaha Canal
18. Maharaja College Mysore, established in 1916
19. Maharani College Mysore, established in 1917
20. Yuvaraja COllege Mysore, established in 1916
21. Banaras Hindu University, Varanasi, First Chancellor and co-founder
22. Minto Eye Hospital Banglore established in 1917, is among the world’s oldest Ophthalmology super speciality hospital
23. Boys Scout in 1909. First of its kind in India
24. Vanivilas Women and Children Hospital established in 1934
25. first Indian state to have a Representative Assembly at mysore
26. first state to have reservation for back ward classes
27. Lord Sankey said during the Round table conference that Mysore was “the best administered state in the world”.
The Pandit Madan Mohan Malaviya described the Raja as “Dharmic” and Lord Wellington echoed the sentiment by calling Mysore’s industrial development “incredible”.
Princes from other sections of India were sent to Mysore for administrative training
and many more
pls give one such instance of Hazrat Tippu Sultan
11) Not only destruction of university but its destruction of identity ( for Buddhist religion monasteries will be learning / thoughts )
There is nothing called converting but changing from one philosophy to other within hindu religion for ex., majority of southern karnataka were jains but changed to vaishnavite in the period of harshavardhana, it doesn’t mean they avoided all jain thoughts – but practice still they vegetarianism, non violence and fasting is prevalent still and people pray mahavir / parshunath ( in home too )
buddha was treated as one the reincarnation of lord vishnu, so buddha is part of hinduism
12) Myth is you and me, can a person be son of God, or messenger of God not at all? Almighty neither can be thought nor can be assumed. Even we have not entered into outer space how can we say that we are ultimate creation and our books are sacred deceased from heaven / God. So how about Aliens (is creation of different God).
I will give glimpses of some hindu philosophy or thoughts
As Buddha rightly said – if a person can’t understand himself who he is? How can he think of God.
Our philosopher such as Kumurila Bhatta of Memase school – says don’t believe even Veda until you get logic proved.
Charvaka of Nastika philosophy (we astika hindus pray him as guru) says there is nothing called hell or heaven nor any one seen.
Advaitha philosophy man himself is God. (Aham Bramaasmi)
Which religion is myth? and which hindu philosophy you are talking ?.
13) Conversion by Catholic church: Ok –
I never said it is ok, I said I we don’t have any religious practice to reconvert.
Conversion by Shankara, Ramanuja: Good
I have answered earlier with that what conversion they have did.
Conversion by Tippu: Bad
Still if you don’t realise after so much facts and figure. I am surprised !!!!!!
Also,
Congress vs Sikhs in 1984: Ok – so at the time sikh was president of India. ( & sikh bodyguard appointed to Indira Gandhi )
BJP vs Muslims in 2002: Ok – will be answered in court ( it is in trail in superem court of India )
Tippu vs Malabar in 1792: Not Ok. – as answered above
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500 yrs glorious rule and 17 year demise rule, This is more enough.
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@ anonymous guy… You are believing a news paper story.
Imagine Tipu buying property in Calcutta which was under British ! You must be kidding !
First the family was exiled at vellore Fort but due to their hostile activity, they were moved to Calcutta.
No Indian Ruler if he had conquered a Place would have rehabilitated the Ruler or his family of 700 and odd Janana.
British were not obliged to either rehabilitate Tipu and Hyder’s legitimate and illegitimate kin nor were they obliged to place Wodeyar heir back on the throne. Why they did so is another issue. But after the conquest they were entitled to do what they and their Ally Nizam wished. They even offered Maratha’s a part of the Territory for remaining neutral.
So one has to view Rehabilitation of Tipu’s kin at Calcutta from that perspective. So the question of their decline was entirely due their own management of their resources.
Prince Ghulam Muhammad Sultan Sahib – Son of Tipu was even recognized as successor to his father and was even Knighted in 1870. with KCSI.
But this prince put all the properties under Prince Ghulam Mohammed Waqf Estate and thus all their wealth is not bearing any material benefit to the successors who are a legion. Just take the Wallace House property and Tollygunge club (60 acres) and it is enough to guesstimate how rich they are !
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paciFier: Tipu did this and didnt do this
satheesh: No dont agree, this is what happened
paciFier: No here is more proof.
satheesh: (Forgetting original point) But Mysore Maharajah was better, Hinduism is better blah blah.
paciFier’s points stand.
In any case, olikara has provided counter-examples to sateesh’s ‘my king/religion was better than your king/religion’ arguments.
BTW where are the other RSS pehelwan’s now with their theories and stories of bad Tipu after paciFier and Olikara got here?
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@sateesh
Krishna Raja Wodeyar is indeed great soul. No body can object this.
But romanticisation about Hinduism(Brahmanism in disguise!) and putting beautiful words about it here and there doesn’t prove your innocence! Conversion vs Changing! clearly there is no basic Advaitha(Non dualism) in your Advaitha preaching! whatever the case it is the prime “Intention” of all concerned parties should matter but not taking shelter under the umbrella of dualism (again no Advaitha!) of Hindu vs Abrahamic religion or Indian vs non-Indian origin!!
Son/Messenger of God is not OK, but “I am GOD” or “Aham Brahmasami” is fine!! what is the basis/objective in framing such beautiful words? Buddha says any notions attested with “I” is unskillful thought and leads to confusion and suffering. that may be the reason one who recites “Aham Bramaasmi” always dwell in ahamkaara( a kind of suffering).
The source of all problem is neither mythology nor son/messenger of any religion. but way of looking at reality and understand it as it is without any distraction.
in Zen there is story called The “Finger is not the Moon”
http://www.myspace.com/thichnhathanh/blog/434802872
“Words” said by all son /messenger of gods/ you /me/ everybody/ including Science are all just like beautiful fingers pointing towards the Moon(or God). If you want to see the Moon just see the Moon after getting direction pointed by fingers (Religions/Science). then forget about 1000 quarreling beautiful fingers( Religions) simply enjoy the beauty of Moon(i.e. GOD)!!!!!!!!!!
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Raja Chandra,
I would rather believe a UK newspaper than what you :)The story of his successors taken prisoner, sent to Vellore and then moved to Calcutta is well known. So is the good name Ghulam Muhammad earned in the local populace and with the British. That they did not manage their property well is also clearly mentioned in the article.
So what is the point you are trying to make? Can you show any evidence to to contrary of what is written in the newspaper article, that Tipu owned land in Calcutta?
In any case your original point about the way the British rules of engagement and how it was different from those of Indian rulers is valid. Any thoughts on the discussion between paciFier and satheesh?
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for Anonymous Guy, and pacifier told the greatness tippu, and tried to prove his greatness – by mentioning he is not comparable to any other kings of mysore.
Ex., tippu was secular, patriotic, builder of KRS, gardens etc., I am just quashing his claims
For Olikar,
1. dalavi are result of pact between mysore king family (kalale and wodyar) and dalavi never climed throne of mysore ( not declared kings ) , unlike tippu
2. as I quoted earlier, in hinduism never welcomed (rare exception to reconversion like – hakka and bukka etc) any person who got converted forcibally or not for viz., son of king Ganesh of bengal, daughter of Srimurthi ( zamorian of calicat) even they wanted to come back, but, until shuddi mechanism bought by arya samaj, swami Shraddahnand.
3. sangoli rayanna was in period of 15 August 1798 – 26 January 1831, and KW IV period June 4, 1884 – August 3, 1940, so sorry olikara pls write and give comment if you know only history. (1831 british took over mysore administration as claimed non payment of alliance subsidiary and mal-administration)
4. Yes u are right until mogul reps at sira and arcot, offficial langugure for external communication use tobe in Persian but later it was English. It doesn’t mean that official language is persian, but tippu period all communication use to be in persian (viz. changing of names).
5. krishnadevaraya attacked and vengi ( most fertile land of andhra ), but not killed gajapathi of orissa, but he made him to surrendar and martial ties built, where as tippu and hyder killed zamorian king and burnt down entire palace and the city. It doesn’t mean that kings of vijaynagar not killed anyone not hurt anyone. But see the difference.
6. malikafur invaded dwarasamudra and veeraballal esacped to Palgaht (where his second son was ruling and also second capital of hoyasala). But after fall of halibedu and ransacking, malik moved towards Madurai ( irrespective of kingdom), his interest was the amaze the wealth ( repeated twice ).
And to emptymind,
a) my claim is that which philosphy in hinduism you are aruging. We have n number of thoughts
b) And I can have give diff philosophies – viz., pre vedic, jain, budhist, memse, Carvakaa and post Shanaka vedic – dvaitha, adviatha, and vishta advaitha etc.
c) My intention is to say you are free to practice which philosophy you like – and also to emphasize that we to have logical (memase) or nastika (Carvaka) concept, and duly recognized as philosophy. Where as in abhramic philosophy / religion there is nothing called nastika (atheistic)and you cant question any authenticity of abhramic religion if you are followers of abrhamic religions
d) my simple question and answer for religion heads of abrahmic sects
i) any abhramic teacher saying all religion is one ?
ii) our hindu origin leaders breaking their heads – sai baba putparthi, amma bhagwan, mata amruthanana mayai, brhama kumari put all religion symbol and slogans but forget themselves what they have to do!!. ( if reconversion was spontaneous in Hinduism they would have done at the earliest)
d) my last word to all if you have problem with your own inherited house will you not repair it ? or just abandon the house or look for some other house.!!! And say our house was bad, not good looking and not able to shelter us.
e) It become necessity to every individual to assess use their intelligence and reconstruct and repair our things rather than abusing ourselves, else days are not far, identity of India will be in history. ( as happened to Egytians and Greeks erstwhile )
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to Olikara,
1. pls find detials of sangoli rayanna period ( (15 August 1798 – 26 January 1831) & krishna rajendra wodaya period (June 4, 1884 – August 3, 1940. so KRW how can he send troop to quell Rayanna ?
2. dalavi of mysore are pact b/w royal family of kalale and wodayar, but dalavis are never declared as kings but Tippu did, right !!!
3.if a person debarred from math or monestry for any reason, and he wants to return to math was not possible in those times (now also), how can you think those time people are converted to by force or not, were able to comeback to original religion.
4. to specific to debate, i will point out where all he implemented kannada, – in changing name ex ., Besagarahalli (small palegars of Mandya dist) to fateh nagar etc. changing dikath in Persian.
and for your and other readers wodyar were not conversant with persian neither (there dikath use tobe in kannada and sanskrit). coming to external communication it use to persian, as mysore was tributory to mugal ( a persian origin invaders ).
5. krishna devaraya invaded orissa and made gajapathi to surrendar and built martial and biletaral ties and restored gajapathi back to throne. Unlike tippu hyder killed and ransacked zamorian kings and also burnt calicut to ashes. it doesnt mean that vijaynagar not killed none.
6. last king of hoysala defeated in dwarasamudra and escaped to Palghat, where his younger son was ruling ( second capital of hoysala ), but where as malikafir plundering and looting hoysala moved to madurai to amaze the wealth rather than to conquer pandyan kings.
so dont shot in air until you have specific information, and for readers please authentise the comments.
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to empty mind,
yes there is religion shift, how it is happened is it with sword?Obviously not, if then it would have been massacre.
and all jain icons are there and their monastery still living. and our majority vaishnav and shivism still patrnoaged (hegde family), Jainism is merged with Hinduism ( jains prays laxmi ganesh n hindu still pray mahavir, padmavathi and so on )
how about religion shift in malbar it is contribution tippu himself as he claimed in his letter.
also mentioned – abhramic rarely uses names of indian origin (not tobe understood as hindu), unlike jain, buddhist
secondly i want tell one thing, we as indian origin having n number of religious concepts the thoughts eg.,
i) pre shnakar period vedic – vedas, upnishad, etc
ii) jainism ( i clearly say they are part of inidian origin (IO) )
iii) buddhuism part of IO
iv) memase of kumarila bhatta
v) Carvaka
v) post shankara period
even i dont how many more ………
but your point is advaitha it means i am also god, so to respect each other (souls) not ahankara.
also note we welcome any thought as – nastika and astika but not believe in vedas. So we varied schools u cal choose.
also to state that no scope for nastik or no believers in abhramic religions but we have
we ever said sarve jana sukino bavantoo, but never vedic or hindu jana shukino bantoo.!!!!!!
we get comment “hindu terrro” by our home minister no public outcry
but what about “vishwa roopam” film shut down across state
“hindoos sikhas are killed or girls kidnapped and converted in pak
result —– no response
“bangla muslims thrashed in maynmar
result —– north eastern tharshed and deported back to, in bangalore
in fact no one dare to say ” narrow minded muslims done” but instead authorities said ” narrow minded done”
i welcome comment
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. Regarding Tipu, the right institution which that name can qualify would be an army school or university of warfare sciences engineering and war related hunmanities and NOT a University in the general sense . They could have this school and like medical education, where the school and hospital are co located they can have the War university anfd a Regiment in thge Pattana with the name of TIPU – an appropriate tribute to his real skills and achievements His famous sword and tiger could be the insignia .Obviously admissions will be as per our defence services standards with no caste/creed/religion in the croiterisa and hence pure with only the required traits ,healthe and attrubutes being tested in the best traditions the river wiillhelp the practicaltraining etc etc. From now on practice of making universities for specific groups should stop
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my dear friends Hazrath Tipu Sultan Shaheed is famous as the Tiger of Mysore, and no matter if you people want a university or not I damn care, nor Tipu Sultan cares, it shows how unfaithful are the people of hinduism towards other religions, no need of any university, its all bullshit and what we want is to live like brothers and united and work for the betterment of our country, it is bad to hear that this much of poison is spilled from you people if Tipu Sultans name is kept on the table, I dont tell that all hindus are bad no never, but only 10percent are very bad and I too agree that even in islam, christianity also these type of anti social elements live here, what i want is stop making any thing on Tipus Name, no need he is was a legend and legends dont die nor their names, so please live like Indians no matter what religion you belong to, also if you are a hindu respect Tipu Sultan and being muslim I respect your gods, thats it final, JAI HIND
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tipu was one of the hero & he fought with british not with hundus.pls remember al of u………
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Mark my word, university will be named after tipu sultan coz he was a better Indian when compared to u who r opposing this.. wait n watch the university will be named after him n even the international airport will be named after tipu sultan, coz he’s was the true son of mother India..
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In the 21st Century it is improper to make universities for ethnic groups. If you have to place any group, increase seats somewhere, the idea should be to integrate not have sepatrate colonies in education . As to Tipu Sultaan you can only open an Army School or Army university fitting with his repute not ageneral one . A regiment can be placed in Pattana in his name. they have a river around for practicing a land river combined terrain for practicaltraining
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HIndu and lslam are the two enemies of India. One claims to be the major religion ergo wants all the power by its side and the other claims to be the minority thereby expects undeserving support.
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We are a Hindu country. No place for rulers like Tipu. We can have only Hindu names such as chatrapati shivaji international airport or banaras Hindu university. No place for muslims or tipu .
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Name it after any Good Indian Muslim Personality like Moulana Azad, Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, how about Dewan Sir Mirza Ismael or Kidwai, but dont try to stop it altogether, Education is the need of the hour for Muslims.
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Who’s this nastika, first of tell me one thing r u indian ……..it’s shame on you, ur telling that “tippu sultan”- a first freedom fighter of india, wont have any links with srirangapattana,hey you wont knew anything about tippu sultan what he has done for country and state he was the 1stperson who implimented rocket launchers technology against britishers……….apart from that it’s the minority universities with 50% minority students and 50% non-minority….it’s not the matter of religionism it’s the matter of EDUCATION
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Dear Shabaz,
You can get an education anywhere.
So why are you crapping.
I am a minority, not You, and i dont demand stupid things.
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The Sangh Parivar was waiting for this opportunity. A slew of objections have been raised from this very same fascist force ever since Union Minister Rehman Khan proposed the idea of setting up the Tipu Sultan University in Srirangapatna. The BJP and the Sangh Parivar did not have a face to go to people seeking votes this election. The dust of mining scam and land scams had settled on its face. Ministers who grew up in RSS ‘Shakhas’ turned out to be culprits. Almost 50% of the ministers in the state cabinet have criminal cases against them. The pseudo patriots had their tails down. But now, the Tipu University issue has come as a new weapon for them. One after the other, its members have began speaking in opposition to the University proposal.
It was Chidananda Murthy, onetime researcher who opened his mouth first. Now BJP spokesperson and MLC Gomadhusoodan has done the same by stating that the state government will not allow 2,000 acres of land to be occupied for the University. Minister Suresh Kumar has also stated that the government will ‘analyze’ as to whether University should be built or not. BJP’s minority face Anwar Manippady has not said a word yet. Dharwad MP Prahlad Joshi has joined the chorus.
As Governor H R Bhardwaj said, “Tipu Sultan is a great patriot, a national hero”. The people of Karnataka agree with him. No one is against Tipu Sultan accept a few who have been struck by the RSS disease.
The RSS fears patriots because it did not participate in the freedom struggle. The ‘chaddis’ instead acted as agents of the British. The RSS cannot stand people like Mahatma Gandhi, Bhagat Singh and Tipu Sultan, who fought against the British.
Had Tipu Sultan entered into a compromise with the British, he would not have to give away his sons as hostages to the British and die fighting on the battlefield. His descendents would not have been begging on the streets in Kolkata today either. But Tipu chose not to shake hands with the British. His contributions to this land are immense. To bring about land reforms two centuries ago is no mean achievement.
Refusing offerings from Palegars, Tipu distributed lands which were in their possession among landless farmers. He believed that the cultivator, no matter which caste or religion he belonged to, must be the true possessor of the farming land. 39,000 tanks were built in his time. In his brief tenure, 35% of the land came under the cover of Neravari. It was Tipu who took the initiative to set up the Kannambadi dam.
The experimental man that he was, Tipu would send his ambassadors to various parts of the world to learn more about the newer technologies in agriculture and implement them in his kingdom. The credit for bringing foreign silk seeds to Karnataka goes to Tipu Sultan. Today, Karnataka stands first in the entire country when it comes to silk production. About 3 lakh soldiers were given lands during Tipu’s tenure. It helped in the rise of smaller farmers and feudalism took a beating.
Farmers from backward communities like Kuruba, Eediga, Vokkaliga, Beda, Lingayat etc, breathed a sigh of relief for having got a break from exploitation. It was Tipu’s effort that saw Bangalore’s Lal Bagh possess rare plants and trees as he brought them from various parts of the world.
There is a reason for RSS to hate Tipu. While he was a Muslim was one reason, that he was pro-Dalit was another. Prior to Tipu taking charge, Brahmin Mutts were the biggest feudal forces in Karnataka. These Mutts would exploit Dalits and Shudras who were in large numbers. Tipu clipped the wings of these Mutts and distributed the temple lands among Dalit farmers. British historian Buchanan has said “There were 500 Brahmin houses in Nanjangud. They owned lands which would bring them an income of 14,000 pagodas. In the same village were 700 Dalit and Shudra families. Although they worked on these lands, they had to live outside the village. Tipu broke this Brahmin dominance and set them a monthly income of mere 100 pagodas”.
The likes of Prahlad Joshi, Muthalik, Madhusoodan and other Sangh Parivar elements see this as an anti-Brahmin move of Tipu and cry over it. A senior communist leader of our country Late C Rajeshwar Rao has written a rare book describing Tipu Sultan’s contributions to India. Revolutionary and martyr Saketh Rajan has listed Tipu’s achievements in his research book ‘Making History’. The likes of Chidananda Murthy must read these books. Sangh Parivar elements will not read such books. But researchers like Chidananda Murthy must not be like them.
There is no need for any permission from the cane leaders of Sangh Parivar to set up Tipu Sultan University. Certain media outlets are giving publicity to these fringe elements who are out to seek Hindu vote bank in the name of Tipu University.
Recently, a Kannada TV channel held a discussion on the Tipu University issue. While Pramod Muthalik, Chidananda Murthy and advocate Devaraju spoke on behalf of Sangh Parivar, C S Dwarakanath and Murulasiddappa spoke in favour of Tipu Sultan. The TV show anchor did not give opportunity to Dwarakanath and Murulasiddappa to speak at all. The ‘Chaddi’ anchor attempted to end the programme by letting Muthalik and Chidananda Murthy have the last word. Dwarakanath and Murulasiddappa stated in the end that no matter who opposes the proposal, the Tipu Sultan University will come up.
Media is being used to give publicity to the idea that there is opposition to Tipu Sultan University. In reality, barring a few senseless people, there is no opposition to the move at all. There is no need to fear anyone either. The land of Srirangapatna is not the private property of Madhusoodan or any Sangh Parivar element. There is no need to value their remarks. Let the Central Government just ignore them and come forward to build the university.
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WHERE TIPPU HAD A TIME TO LAY THE FOUNDATIONTO DAM/ROAD -HE ONLY INSTRUCTED HIS PEOPLE TO BLAST THE BRIDGES TO STOP THE BRITISH MILTARY, I HAVE HEARD THE STORY IN OUR PART OF KARNATAKA EVERY ONE WAS FEARING BLACK ARMY i.e TIPPU ARMY AND EAGERLY WELCOMING WHITE ARMY – AT THAT TIME ALL INDIAN KINGS INCLUDING TIPPU WERE ALL LOOTERS ONLY – NOW WE CALL THEM AS PATRIOTS VERU BULLSHIT – ALWASY PEOPLE PREPERS LESS EVIL ONLY – IN HIS TIME TIPPU WAS GREATER EVIL THAN BRITISH
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