The upsurge in the demand for classical language status for Kannada—immediately after Tamil was “granted” the honour by a UPA government dependent on the DMK for support—has been one of the more perplexing preoccupations of Kannada fans, followers and fanatics in recent times.
M.S. Prabhakara, the long-time Guwahati and Johannesburg correspondent of The Hindu and a fully paid-up Kannadiga, has counted 46 news times in the Kannada print media apart from photographs related to the subject in the last six months alone.
These report meetings, demonstrations and protests over the ‘step-motherly’ attitude of the Union Government towards Kannada and Karnataka, memoranda, journeys of delegations to Delhi. At least, one Kannada worthie, the former Mysore Unviersity vice-chancellor D. Javare Gowda, has found his USP in the evening of his life.
Why, asks Prabhakara.
“Why this desire to secure such a status for one’s language since ‘classical languages’ are, or at least were, assumed to be virtually dead languages unlike Tamil or Kannada which are alive and vibrant?
“In what way will the language and its speakers benefit by this tag? Neither the several memoranda on the subject nor the subsequent literature following the September 2004 decision provides a satisfactory answer—except to claim that the recognition accorded to Tamil, the first living Indian language to be so recognised (a point that is sure to be endlessly bruited), acknowledges the antiquity of the language, its unbroken literary tradition and the uniqueness of its literary sensibility and other equally ponderous points of self-congratulation and self-gratification, and massaging of one’s egos.
“The Kannada nationalistic urge to emulate Tamil in each and every respect also bespeaks insecurities that have affected Kannada sensibility…
“Failure to successfully emulate the Tamil may make for more serious dislocations that are sure to be exploited by forces always predisposed to demonise the other. Above all, such obsessions about the diminishment of Kannada by malevolent anti-Kannada forces deflect attention from the far more serious problems affecting the consolidation of the Kannada sensibility, historically beset with caste and religious divides, and of late the incipient sub-regional divides, apart from more general divides brought about by unequal economic development.”
Read the full article here: Between the dragon and his wrath
churumuri 
“Why this desire to secure such a status for one’s language since ‘classical languages’ are, or at least were, assumed to be virtually dead languages unlike Tamil or Kannada which are alive and vibrant?”
A classical language has several requirements, but being dead or assumed to be dead is not one among them. For example, Greek is a classical language, but many other European languages are not. Just because Greek is considered a classical language, other European states don’t cry!
Some of the reasons for Tamil being a classical language can be found here.
http://tamil.berkeley.edu/Tamil%20Chair/TamilClassicalLanguage/TamilClassicalLgeLtr.html
Certainly, Kannada and several other languages in India have a great literary tradition and all languages should be equally encouraged/funded by the Government.
The difference between Kannada and Tamil (when we talk about classical language) is that Kannada literary tradition (just like Malayalam or Telugu) is closer to Sanskrit tradition rather than being independent.
Of course, this does not mean Tamil alone is a great language. Influence of other languages like Sanskrit or Arabic or Persian is largely due to geographical/historical/cultural factors.
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Let me put a test case. Would our reactions be the same if we did not share a contiguous and contentious history with TN? Ie., would ‘digas get revved up against tamil, if say tamil was spoken anywhere else but in TN say like in rajasthan or orissa or even Andhra? Is this really a language battle? Does the list posted by anon really matter?
… other equally ponderous points of self-congratulation and self-gratification, and massaging of one’s egos.
There is nothing ponderous about anything in this list. It will take all sorts of ideas and attitudes to “consolidate the Kannada sensibility”, including those in this list. The attitudes which you prohibit for kannadigas and aim to shame them with, is worn on the sleeve in TN. Couldn’t care less if it were not for the fallout of that within our borders and if we were not short changed vis-à-vis resources as a result of this.
The Hindu plays this game for TN all the time. So how many articles of this kind has the hindu published about self-congratulation and self-gratification, and massaging of one’s egos in TN? What is the analysis of the Hindu about the historically beset caste and religious divides, apart from more general divides brought about by unequal economic development in TN?
I just realized that the sensational heading is churumurization of the Hindu article. Nevertheless, what the Hindu said subtly, churumuri put it plainly. So…
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Anon says: The difference between Kannada and Tamil (when we talk about classical language) is that Kannada literary tradition (just like Malayalam or Telugu) is closer to Sanskrit tradition rather than being independent.
1. Nonsense. But being the devils advocate, so what if it is close to Sanskrit? Does it imply that Kannada is an impure language? If so, what is this obsession with purity/impurity? A language is a growing organism. The true tribute to a language is by the literary geniuses who use the language as a tool to bring forth their thoughts. Kannada, by the fact that it has 7 Gnanapith Awards takes in a lions share.
Somehow our (sorry, Tamilians) craze with a “purity” of the language is an indicator of the primitive menatlity that the tribals we (sorry again, tamilians) are engage themselves in by claiming that purity or “virginity” is good. Analogising a little more, the quest for virginity also extends in societies where a “virgin” girl is given more importance in anything. Such racist and primitive concepts and understanding are quite dangerous for the progress of societies which tends on to harp on rather frivilous merits than the merit that a language should represent –> Litreature. And if purity of a language is one of the corner stones for designating a language as classical, then it reflects our confused agenda. As such, the classical status must be revoked.
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Besides, randomly thinking, anyone asked the question, “Who is the Govt of India to designate a language as Classical?” What right does the Govt of India has over languages? Is Kannada, Tamil, Malayalam, etc etc property of India because we have the majority of speakers?
Overall, the circus of designating languages as classical by the Govt of India is a ridiculous exercise and Tamils fighting for that are even more braindead and atrociously ridiculous.
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SumneNeeve,
All super posts!
God Bless!
Jai Karnataka
M.S. Prabhakara, …a fully paid-up Kannadiga…sounds more like a sold out Kannadiga!
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All this literal bravado is getting to my head…NOT!
Everybody has an opinion, very few have solutions.
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Is Mr. Prabhakara asswiping his masters?
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Tamil was declared a classical language without any kind of evaluation, just to satisfy DMK. Later the central govt. set up a committee so that it need not decide about other languages anytime soon. Now that the Karnataka elections are around the corner, the Congress at the center may think that declaring Kannada a classical language may earn some votes.
Note that long pending Bangalore-Mangalore train is likely to start soon.
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Before this discussion descends into the customary Tamil bashing, people allow me to give a Tamil perspective.
1. What has Tamil achieved by this classical language tag? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. We have always had “Long live classical Tamil” kind of boards in TN. Getting the union government to ‘recognize’ this, was just a massaging of the egos and cheap politics.
2. That criterion for classical languages was originally drawn by Prof. George Hart who occupies the Tamil chair at UC Berkeley. He would obviously have his biases. That list should not be taken seriously.
3. As for as I know Kannada today is in a better shape than Tamil. Our versions of Ananthamurthies and Girish Karnads, have no voice whatsoever. The number of Gnanpith and Sahitya Academy awards lay witness to the better shape of Kannada literature.
4. We Tamils have always claimed credit for the collective heritage of all south indian langauges. Even Tamils know that claims like oldest Tamil book discovered being 2500 years old are false! Kannadiga’s should only be amused and not feel insecure about our theatrics!
5. Its funny that Kannadiga’s are being urged to feel insecure for not being insecure already! Tamils espouse their language more out of insecurity than any notions of superiority.
6. People often confuse Tamil’s fight with itself for survival as supremacy! Everyone in TN has heard of the phrase ‘Mella Tamil ini saagum’ (Tamil will slowly die). Kannada may not be having such problems. So just ignore us.
Some examples of this Tamil fight for survival.
a. 300 BC – Brahmi script brought by Jains to south India is adopted by Tamil. It could either mean that Tamils had no script prior to that or the existing script lost space to Brahmi.
b. 300 BC – 700 AD – Only Jain literature is available from this period. What happened to the Hindu literature? Were they lost or simply did not exist?
c. 1200~ – 1800 AD – Grantha script and letters overwhelm Tamil. Thats essentially Sankritization. Few people including Christian missionaries from Europe helped to rediscover Tamil. Ofcourse they adopted Tamil names like Partithimar Kalaignar and Maraimalai Adikal!
d. 1800~ – 1950 – Sanskrit words again assault Tamil since printing press was in the hands of Brahmins. Another movement was launched among others by Periyar to recover ground.
In the same period Carnatic Music bypasses Tamil because Nayaks were ruling TN and also because Tamil being quite rigid in the kinds of sounds it can make, was not suitable for Carnatic Music.
e. 1950 – 1970 – Having just fought Sanskrit, Tamils panicked and fought Hindi tooth and nail.
f. Today we are fighting against English because most Tamils find their own language to be too difficult to communicate effectively. Even I cannot speak few sentences in a row without using English words.
So much for Tamil supremacy! Kannadiga’s should be happy that you guys are not as insecure as we are!
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Tamilians claim that Tamil is a pure language is a load of horse@$#^!. All dravidian languages and even sanskrit language have their roots in Brahmi language. In fact sanskrit at one point in time used the Brahmi lipi. Even to this day Sanskrit does not have its own script to speak of while, the dravidian language viz. Kannada, Tamil,Telugu,Malayalam all developed their own scripts for their languages. If at all any language can be called classical language it would be Brahmi in more than one sense…it is dead and it is the mother of all langauges.
Mayura
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Ok, since no one is interested in talking solutions here’s one: Let us fight for making Karnataka a separate nation with all Kannadigas accorded citizenship status. All migrants like Biharis, Tamilians, Romulans, etc. will have to apply for a Karnataka ‘Green Card’ and before that, a work permit. Can we please have a forum topic on this subject? This solution will greatly nullify the Kannada-Tamil banter going on that has no value.
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very well written balaji. You mention that only jain lit is available between circa 300 BC and 700 AD. But I remember having read in my cbse text about kamba ramayana, silpadikaram (something by that name) composed during that age?
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Sir Vibudhi says: “All migrants like Biharis, Tamilians, Romulans, etc. will have to apply for a Karnataka ‘Green Card’ and before that, a work permit.”
Exactly, My sentiments too. In a couple fo years, the demography of Karnataka is bound to change because of the rapind immigration to Bangalore, Mysore. Not only are qualified people coming to Bangalore in search of jobs, but miscreants of all sorts are also coming to Bangalore in search of rich guys to loot from. One way to ensure that the quality of people who come to Bangalore/Mysore remains above average is to introduce Residency Status for local Bangaloreans/Mysoreans. We need to stem the migration while also making a case for other parts of India to co-develop and co-exist. Why should Bangalore bear the burden of accommodating teh so called migrants? If we are to, we need to get paid for our services offerred.
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Look at an average tamilian – what makes the language she/he speaks in anyway more classical than any language from Karnataka? The tamilians are on an average more noisy, troublesome and ill-mannered. No class, let alone classical.
Having a green card for outsiders in Karnataka. What a great thought! I am sure the migrants here will fight tooth and nail among each other to be let in. Like the way they fake their life histories to get BDA and MUDA sites.
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Balaji,
Thank you for a brilliant analysis! Many of the contentious issues regarding the antiquity of Tamil you have mentioned here have been humorously explained by the Late Professor BGL Swamy–a famous littérateur of Kannada. He also served as professor of botany in Presidency College, Madras.
My problem with the classical tag for Tamil is that too many brain dead Central governments will start doling out enormous sums of money to study classical Tamil–which is a waste of tax payers money! Then there may be demands of alternative classical language Tamil boards in South India and so on. It will also give the regular Joe-Thambhi Tamils a sense of false prestige and they will lose whatever perspective they have completely!
And third-rate politicians like Dirty Devegowda (DDG) will start speaking in butler Tamil to please their ‘Thambi’ audience and on and on it goes! Revanna and Kumar swamy will reveal to the people of Karnataka that there were conceived in Tamil Nadu during a black-magic session conducted by DDG–and hence the ‘black’ skin apperance:)
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Work permit to all the people visiting karnataka is a good idea!! It’s high time that we all fight to save our identity, language, land, culture and most important of all ‘our future’
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pardon my haLegannada but what is this nonsense in the first para AG?
and pray what problems does the “green card” solve SVA,SN?
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Sir Aatmapudi,
Are you Tamil or Romulun? Or a vulgar Vulcan?
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ok i cant post images, check the images in this article …
http://bangalore.praja.in/2007/09/21/bellandur-lake-i
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TS,
I dont understand halegannada :) Namdh yenidhru vasa. Like Ambi said in some movie – ‘Vasa bhashe, vasa samskruti…’
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Let us not talk about what “classical language” means and also stop paying Tamils left-handed compliments about how well they handle their business when it comes to protecting their interests, be they in Chennai or Chennapattana.
How do we pay Kannada its due in Karnataka? No foolish talk about not allowing non-Kannadigas to live in Karnataka. That is anti-constitutional. We cannot or should not force our children into Kannada medium schools if we are worried at all about what their future is going to be like.
The truth is there will always be pockets of non-Kannadigas in all towns and cities of Kannada Nadu. They work in construction or computers and there is no need for them to learn our Sirigannada. Maarwadi money lenders, on the other hand, have spoken Kannada with us for centuries because there is money in it. The same is true of Telugus. whose business depends on us.
Unless we can assure every person educated in Kannada there is a means of making a decent living, Kannada will not be the language of the land. Kannadigas will put English first because that is where the IT and BT jobs are. They will next learn Hindi next because that is the language of North Indians capitalists in Bangalore. If you don’t want to believe it, try shopping in Jayanagar. Then comes our peeled like a banana, sweet Kannada.
Kannadigas’ first chief minister’s home language was Telugu. Kengal did what he could by establishing a Cultural Directorate. Nijalingappa wanted to put in place a Hindi University in our Bengaluru. I do not know what qualifies him to call the “roovari” of Vishala Karnataka. He knew how to consolidate the Lingayat vote base.
Not one of our damn chief ministers, including Hegde, have made serving Kannada’s interests part of their mission. Charlatans like Vatal Nagaraj and Narayana Gowda hurt the image of Kannada rather than promote it.
One cannot change history. We are condemned to see our language in the third place in Karnataka.
The Kannada Pradhikara and other agencies owe us an explanation why they have been unable to do diddly squat for Kannada.
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1. Nonsense. But being the devils advocate, so what if it is close to Sanskrit? Does it imply that Kannada is an impure language? If so, what is this obsession with purity/impurity? A language is a growing organism. The true tribute to a language is by the literary geniuses who use the language as a tool to bring forth their thoughts. Kannada, by the fact that it has 7 Gnanapith Awards takes in a lions share.
Of course, there is no problem in being closer to Sanskrit. I don’t say that Kannada is impure language. Kannada being closer to Sanskrit when compared to Tamil is a fact. “Being impure” is just a negative perception. Whether a language has to stay away from the influence of another language depends on the sentiments of people.
Tamil always had some restrictions for incorporating Sanskrit words/sounds, etc. The recent obsession about staying away from Sanskrit influences (in 19th/20th century) is mainly because of anti-Brahmin sentiments in Tamilnadu (no anti-Kannada sentiments).
Similarly, Arabic/Persian influences in Hindi were systematically purged and Hindi was Sanskritized by the Government. So, what’s the big deal in having Arabic/Persian words? After all, they seem to be so beautiful and poetic in Bollywood songs! So, why this obsession with purity? I don’t find fault with sanskritizing Hindi at all. If we look at the horror of muslim invasions and partition riots, it’s easy to feel their sentiments.
As far as Kannada is concerned, will you accept Arabic/Persian influence as easily as Sanskrit influence… with this justification…
A language is a growing organism. The true tribute to a language is by the literary geniuses who use the language as a tool to bring forth their thoughts.
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1. Nonsense. But being the devils advocate, so what if it is close to Sanskrit? Does it imply that Kannada is an impure language? If so, what is this obsession with purity/impurity? A language is a growing organism. The true tribute to a language is by the literary geniuses who use the language as a tool to bring forth their thoughts. Kannada, by the fact that it has 7 Gnanapith Awards takes in a lions share.
Of course, there is no problem in being closer to Sanskrit. I don’t say that Kannada is impure language. Kannada being closer to Sanskrit when compared to Tamil is a fact. “Being impure” is just a negative perception. Whether a language has to stay away from the influence of another language depends on the sentiments of people.
Tamil always had some restrictions for incorporating Sanskrit words/sounds, etc. The recent obsession about staying away from Sanskrit influences (in 19th/20th century) is mainly because of anti-Brahmin sentiments in Tamilnadu (no anti-Kannada sentiments).
Similarly, Arabic/Persian influences in Hindi were systematically purged and Hindi was Sanskritized by the Government. So, what’s the big deal in having Arabic/Persian words? After all, they seem to be so beautiful and poetic in Bollywood songs! So, why this obsession with purity? I don’t find fault with sanskritizing Hindi at all. If we look at the horror of muslim invasions and partition riots, it’s easy to feel their sentiments.
As far as Kannada is concerned, will you accept Arabic/Persian influence as easily as Sanskrit influence… with this justification…
A language is a growing organism. The true tribute to a language is by the literary geniuses who use the language as a tool to bring forth their thoughts.
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Very simplistic view of ‘classicial’ tag – there is a fairly large money/grant involved. All languages with this tag will get Koti-Koti kaasu every-year….For e.g., every year, many states fight to get ‘Bara Peeditha Pradesha’ tag soon after monsoon starts, because this tag entitles for certain ‘Package’ deal.
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pulikeshi thanks. will make two posts with related ideas …
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#1. towards universal education, why cant we have:
kannada, social studies, including civics in kannada. english, science and maths in english. for all students irrespective of their backgrounds and location?
#1a. this would help students to be bi-directionally globally connected to the fast changing world of the sciences. english is the de-facto language in the peer reviewed world of science. for example, so many papers in the sciences from non-english speaking countries are rejected because of lack of clarity in communication. quite a few of these papers are so poorly written that it is impossible for others to look beyond the language, and assess the quality of research. i.e. many times papers are rejected, even when international reviewers sense that they carry important information, because they cannot be sure the authors mean what the reviewers think the authors mean. this is limited world of academics, where you can find people idealistic enough to read a paper a 10 times. you can imagine the impact of this in the much more pervasive world of practical engineering/sciences where people have actually invested their fortunes.
on the otherhand, it took modern scientists to “discover” that there is a species of freshwater cat fish now called glyptothorax kudremukensis. perhaps the locals have known of this fish since ages as kemmeenu and they could have told more about it if it were not for the language barrier? similar is the case with mount “everest” aka sagarmaata/chomolungma.
#1b. studying social studies and civics in kannada would help children think about their immediate surroundings, their history and their role as citizens in kannada. hopefully, with kannada as the medium for social sciences and civics, the schooling syllabus will also be more local in content and more relevant. growing up we learnt all about the map of india, but knew nothing about the map of how our town. genghis khan, napolean and akbar we learnt about but nothing about abbakka, benki nawab and kempe gowda, who i now learn, via internet, was a pioneer in rainwater harvesting. the constitution of india and magna carta we learnt about but not who or what a mayor, a corporator or a panchayati head is. had to learn out of school that gaNasabha’s were probably the earliest forms of representative governance. it is left to word of mouth learning post graduation to know how local governance works. what the byelaws and traffic rules are, what is meant by a revenue site or an agri land. what use is a education in civics without knowledge of these everyday essential facts?
#1c. if the issue of medium is amicably resolved, perhaps attention can then be focussed on the more critical issues of pedagogy – issues like how to move from rote learning and testing regurgitative ability to testing for understandability and application.
#1d. developing facility in both kannada and english will also facilitate cross-over and cross-pollination.
it will enable kannadigas who are scientists to easily help preserve and sustain naaTi science. at the same time it will enable kannadiga scientists to contribute to popular scientific content in kannada directly. similarly, it will enable students of the arts direct access to ideas from the west.
kannada can only be saved if kannadigas are confident and directly enabled and see no contradiction in being a kannadiga and a citizen of this modern world.
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ಬೆಂಗಳೂರಲ್ಲಿ ಕನ್ನಡ ಹರಡುವುದು
ನಮಗೆ ಬೇಕಾಗಿರೊದು ಕನ್ನಡದ ರಾರಾಜು. ಅತ್ತೆಡೆ ನಮಗೆ ಲಭಿಸೊ ಎಲ್ಲ ಶಕ್ತಿಗಳನ್ನು ನಾವು ಉಪಯೊಗಿಸಕೊಬೇಕು. ಹೊಸ ಚ್ಯಾಲೆಂಜುಗಳಿಗೆ ಹೊಸ ಉಪಾಯ ಬೇಕು. ಈಗಿರೊದು ಮಾರುಕಟ್ಟೆ. ಜನ ಈಗ ಕಿಸೆಗೆ ಕಯ್ಯಿ ಹಾಕಿ ಮತ ಚಲಾಯ್ಸ್ತಾರೆ. ದುಡ್ಡೇ ದೊಡಪ್ಪ. ಇದರಲ್ಲಿ ಸಂಕೋಚ ಬೇಡ. ಸಂದೇಹ ಬೇಡ. ಕೆಲಸಕ್ಕೆ ಬಾರದಿರೊ ಸಮಾಜವಾದದ ಮಡಿ ಬೇಡ.
ಇತ್ತೆಡೆ ನನ್ನ ಕೆಲ ಅನಸಿಕೆಗಳು….
#೧. ಭಾಶ್ಯಾಂತರದ ಬದಲು ಲಿಪ್ಯಾಂತರದ ಬಳಕೆ. ಲಿಪಿಗಿಂತ ಭಾಶೆ ಮುಖ್ಯ ಮಾಡಿಕೊಂಡು ಹೊರಟರೆ ಹೆಂಗೆ?
BMTC ಬದಲು BSN/BESANI(ಬೆಸನಿ) ಬೆಂಗಳೂರು ಸಾರಿಗೆ ನಿಗಮ, ಇಂಗ್ಲಿಶ್ ಲಿಪಿಲೂ ಕೂಡ.
BDA/BMP ಬದಲು BENAPA/BEMAPA
ITPL/EC ಬದಲು ANTAUD/ENA ಅಂತೌದ/ಇನ (ಅಂತರ್ರಾಷ್ಟ್ರಿಯಾ ತಂತ್ರಜ್ನ್ಯಾನ ಉದ್ಯಾನವನ.)
jayanagara 5th mukhya, 2nd tiruvu
ಎಲ್ಲ ಸೂಚಕ, ನಿರ್ದೆಶಕ ಸೂಚನೆಗಳು ಮೂರು ಲೈನಲ್ಲಿ—
Towards ANTAUD use hale madraasu raste
ANTAUD kaDege hale madraasu raste upayogisi
ಅಂತೌದ ಕಡೆಗೆ ಹಳೆ ಮದರಾಸು ರಸ್ತೆ ಉಪಯೊಗಿಸಿ.
ma ga raste full
ma ga raste tumbide
ಮ.ಗ. ರಸ್ತೆ ತುಂಬಿದೆ.
#೨. ಸ್ತಳೀಕರಣ ಅಪ್ಪಿಕೊಳ್ಳೊಕೆ ಸ್ವಂತ ಹಣ ಹೂಡೊರ್ಗೆ ಉತ್ತೇಜನೆ
ಪ್ರತಿ ಕಂಪನಿ ಕನ್ನಡ ಮೂಲ ಹೆಸರ ಬಳಕೆ ಮಾಡಿದಲ್ಲಿ ನೊಂದಾಣಿಕೆ ಸುಂಕ ೧೦% ಕಮ್ಮಿ. ಭಾರತಿಯ ಹೆಸರು ಬಳಕೆ ಮಾಡಿದಲ್ಲಿ ೫% ಕಮ್ಮಿ. ಕನ್ನಡ ಲಿಪೀಲಿ ಹಲಿಗೆ ಪ್ರದರ್ಶಿಸಿದಲ್ಲಿ ಇನ್ನೋಂದಿಶ್ಟು ರಿಯಾಯಿತಿ.
brigade acropolis — ಬ್ರಿಗೇಡ್ ಹಜಾರ, ಬ್ರಿಗೇಡ್ ಶಾಲಿಮಾರ, ಇಟ್ಟಿನ ಐಹೊಳೆ. ಸಾಲಪುರಿಯಾ ಲಾಲಭಾಗ್.
ಕೊನೆ ಪಕ್ಷ, ಕನ್ನಡನಾಡಿನ ಇತಿಹಾಸ, ಸಾಂಪ್ರದಾಯ, ಸಂಸ್ಕ್ರುತಿ ತಿಳಿದು ಕೊಂಡಿರೊ arts ಗ್ರಾಜುಯೇಟ್ಟ್ಸ್ ಗಳಿಗಾದ್ರು ಡಿಮಾಂಡು ಹೆಚ್ಚುತ್ತೆ Eye-wink
architecture ಅಲ್ಲಿ, ಬದಾಮಿ, ಬಿಜಾಪುರ, ಹಂಪಿ, ಮೈಸೂರ, ದ.ಕ. ಇಲ್ಲ ಇತರ ಭಾರತಿಯ ಶೈಲಿಯ ಬಳಕೆ ಮಾಡಿದಲ್ಲಿ ೨೫% ಕಮ್ಮಿ. ಮಂಗಳೂರ ಹಂಚು ೧೫%. ಇದರಿಂದ ನಮ್ಮವರ ಕುಂದುತಿರುವ ಹಂಚಿನ ವ್ಯಾಪಾರಕ್ಕು ಚೇತನ.
ನಗರ ಪಾಲಿಕೆಗಳ ಬೊಕ್ಕಸ ಹೇಂಗೂ ಖಾಲಿ, ನಾಡಲ್ಲಿ ಇವರಿಂದ ಇನ್ನೊಂದು ಐಹೊಳೆ ಬರೋದು ನಾ ಕಾಣೇ. ಕನಿಶ್ಟ ಖಾಸಗಿ ಜನ ಆದ್ರು ಉಳಿಸಲಿ ನಮ್ಮತನಾನ.
incentivize private companies to go local.
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prolly have to use IE to read kannada fonts
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TS says: “and pray what problems does the “green card” solve SVA,SN?”
1. It implies that folks coming outside Karnataka will and need to know certain facts about bangalore. So once they come in, they will know that “Hindi nahi aathi kya” is not tolerated, the same as “tamil teriya maa?”.
2. A slap on their over extended ego puts them in the right place in Karnataka. Once they have an opportunity to work here, they will be more grateful, unlike the current situation where thet think its their God given right to come down to Bangalore and criticize everything about Bangalore.
3. It ensures that sane people come down to Bangalore, not ill-educated (but literate), paan chewing, panche-above-knees bearing morons.
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Anon says: Of course, there is no problem in being closer to Sanskrit. I don’t say that Kannada is impure language. Kannada being closer to Sanskrit [..] concerned, will you accept Arabic/Persian influence as easily as Sanskrit influence… with this justification…
What is your point?
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Good post pulekeshi and TS.
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will you accept Arabic/Persian influence as easily as Sanskrit influence… with this justification…
What is your point?
You said
Somehow our (sorry, Tamilians) craze with a “purity” of the language is an indicator of the primitive menatlity that the tribals we (sorry again, tamilians) are engage themselves in by claiming that purity or “virginity” is good. Analogising a little more, the quest for virginity also extends in societies where a “virgin” girl is given more importance in anything. Such racist and primitive concepts and understanding are quite dangerous for the progress of societies
From these words, you seem to feel that “virginity” of a language is a barbaric concept. I don’t think so. It is just a reflection of the sentiments of people. Most Indian languages feel good about Sanskrit influence and not so with Arabic/Persian. Languages in Pakistan are desanskritized and arabized/persianized. Tamil was desanskritized too.
If you take Punjabi, it was one language with two scripts before partition. Now, Indian Punjabi has taken more Sanskrit words and Pakistani Punjabi has taken more Arabic/Persian words. Same with Hindi/Urdu too. Such processes are not absolute/black and white, but indicate a direction.
There’s no language called Brahmi, it’s just a script. Many Indian languages adopted different scripts through different points of time.
What I want to emphasize is that
1) Classical language is just a term of academic interest. An independent literary tradition (sort of virginity that you talked about) is a general requirement. It is possible for Tamil to be a classical language while another language is not.
2) A language being classical and having a great literary tradition are not correlated at all. Greek and Latin are classical languages for Europe. Russian has a great literary tradition with the likes of Tolstoy
and finally
3) All languages should be encouraged/funded equally by the government. There should be no special privilege for Hindi, Sanskrit or Tamil.
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Anon says: From these words, you seem to feel that “virginity” of a language is a barbaric concept.
No, I said that harping on “virginity” as a merit is frivilous and not correct.
Anon says: “sort of virginity that you talked about) is a general requirement.”
Hahaha. Of course. Of course.
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SumneNeeve and Kuthuhala seem to be the only people here with some foresight on the future of Karnataka
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@Balaji,
Well written. I would like to add that Tamil has at least achieved higher funding from the center since classical tag!! This is what Kannada classical-taggists are after.
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koppal haida,
>> You mention that only jain lit is available between circa 300 BC and 700 AD. But I remember having read in my cbse text about kamba ramayana, silpadikaram (something by that name) composed during that age?
Silapadikaram is one of the five epics in Tamil. Although only that, Manimekalai and few parts of Civaka Cinthamani are available to us now. Silapadikaram is believed to have been written by a Jain monk Ilanko. Manimekalai is a buddhist story, though I don’t know whether the author Seethalai Sathanar was buddhist. Civaka is the work of Jain monk Thiruthakathevar.
Kamba Ramayanam was written only in the 12th century. Though there exists an another Tamil version of Ramayan which might be much older. But only very few parts of it are available now.
In general, Buddhist and Jain monks have always been good in chronicles, literature, painting etc. Afterall the best account of Indian History comes from the Buddhist Mahavamsam of Srilanka!
Doddi Buddi,
>> Then there may be demands of alternative classical language Tamil boards in South India and so on.
actually, I think its a shame that Indians don’t learn other Indian languages except Hindi. Many people are multi-tongue but I don’t think many are multi-lingual (to read/write), unless their mother tongue is diff from the state’s language. Each linguistic state should establish boards to teach the language in other states. One day all Indian languages are going to lose out to English. What a waste!
Girish,
>> Tamil has at least achieved higher funding from the center
yeah, I guess Tamil is getting grants. I would rather have the central government spend money on Sanskrit and in saving or atleast recording several north-eastern and tribal dialects that are fast disappearing. TN government can easily afford to spend money on Tamil.
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balaji,
u r trying to be practical but i am disappointed that u gave lot of chances for misunderstanding for the other side. they r only too happy 2 receive a வாக்குமூலம் from tamil.
1.tamil is a classical language and we know and feel it whether others accept or not. we need indian government’s recognition just for the money involved. There is nothing wrong in lobbying in national or global scale for a deserving candidate. to say that we got nothing out of this announcement is wrong. central fundings are alloted and research centres are being setup in TN.
2. I don’t think that professor’ berkley’s letter was the most important deciding factor. any body would be stupid to decide based just on one letter. besides, he is also an expert on other classical languages including sanskrit. his list is just a common sense listing of what a classical language could be. A language’s present status doesn’t have anything to do with its classicness.
3. I don’t the reality of use of kannada in karnataka now. If it has widespread use and has a thriving literature now, I am only glad to know it. I am language enthusaist and would only be happy to know that every single exisiting language in the world is saved. but there is no need to trash or speak less of another language and the race following it.
To say tamil is a classical language we speak on our own merits not on the basis comparing and crying regarding another language.
loopholes in ur argument:
1. u say the claims of tamils having books dating 2500 years before is false. please don make such sweeping statements. ofcourse we don have physically existing books., what about tholkaappiyam? it is a grammar book dating to beginning of AD. anyone would know that writing grammar follows only after a language has evolved which takes hundreds of years..
2. 300 BC – 700 AD – only jain literature?? i don care why hindu literature is missing or was it there first hand? but ur statement seems to mean that the only existing literature is jain literature..we have lots of non-religious literature during this time.. புறநானூறு, திருக்குறள்..to name a few..
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Thanks, TS. The argument that our schools should be bilingual makes a lot of sense, not just because we get to use Kannada, but because most of our English teachers are not trained to teach English. When their own grasp of the language is shaky, it is a waste of our children’s time. Here is the dilemma: In rural Karnataka, English cannot be taught well. Kannada is the language of learning. Those who are forced to learn in Kannada thus don’t have much of a future unless they are independently wealthy, or criminally wealthy like the Padmanabhanagar band of dacoits.
There is no such thing as linguistic purity in any part of the world. Nouns, adjectives, verbs, and adverbs easily travel from one language to another.
Literature cannot save Kannada. Kannadigas lived and died when Halegannada was not even a notion available for inspection to them. That is, they knew no Pampa or Ranna. I supposed they managed their lives all right. Even now there are crores of Kannadigas to whom “Ramayanadarshanam” and “Samskara” make little sense. Literature, regardless of the number of Jnaanapeetha awardees, does not ensure the survival of the spoken form of a language. It is hubristic that everyone of our saahithis believes that he has God’s own permission to deliver sermons on Kannada’s ulivu and alivu. Languages die. New ones come into being. My only concern is that my people should not be penalised for using Kannada as their medium of communication in Karnataka by being denied access to life’s many joys.
As a Kannadiga, I should not have to feel helpless when I am in Shivajinagar or the dandu area.in Bengaluru. Merchants who want my money should be able to tell me the cost of something in Kannada if I ask in Kannada. At those music shops, if I want to know where to find Bhimsen Joshi’s CDs of dasarapadagalu, the attendants should be able to lead me to the spot without my having to translate my request into some beastly form of English or Hindi. At Hotel Ashoka I want a Kannada menu.
The sad truth is nothing in this situation will change as long as we elect illiterate polititians and genuflect before our posturing literati.
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Hi, this is to all who dont know anything about history…
Go back to your history books and read about Kannada and also Tamil..
You will know which is ancient and which is classical..
Do not be jealous. Just because Tamil has been made a classical language dont have a indigestion problem.
An average person cannot win gold in Olympics just with blatant cries. he needs to work very hard for it. Tamil is blessed with that.
Any objective person will say Kannada is not on par with Tamil, Sanskrit or any other classical languages.
Kannada is a very developed language but it is not a classical language. It is a modern language so be happy with it.
..
Jai Karnataka..
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Commonsense:
I am afraid your message does not match your pseudonym.
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CommonSense,
“An average person cannot win gold in Olympics just with blatant cries.he needs to work very hard for it. Tamil is blessed with that.”
Who is this Tamilian who wins gold medals in Olympics using his classical language?
BTW we have a word for Tamilians like you with your blatant cries – Konga.
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TS,
Tamils apart from having caste and religious identities have an overarching tamil identity.This has existed for a very long time because of the ancient tamil grammatical text Tholkappiam and the distinct literary tradition of the tamils.The tamil deities murukan and mariamman have always being popular.Even in ancient times the tamil land was well demarcated.Tamil literature talks of tamizhakam stretching from venkatam(tirupathi) to kumari(kanyakumari).The tamil literary language is very different from the spoken language.There are elaborate rules for transmuting sanskrit words.Even words used in ordinary life,which are so alike in dravidian languages while spoken ,are distinct in tamil in the written form.The educated tamil scholar scorns on colloquial usage and has contempt for the uneducated.The ADMK exploited the difference between the vellala and non vellala.But such tactics cannot work beyond a point in modern times.The heterodox tradition has a long history in TN.The puranas and itihasas have been critically analysed by the tamil literati even in ancient times.An ethical tradition independent of orthodox hinduism existed in TN.eg:thirukural,for something similar in karnataka,one has to come to sarvagna in later times.This makes the tamil tradition rooted in the soil.
The vellalas are a unique caste in india.They have upheld the tamil literary tradition and are spread throughout TN.Majority of tamil savants,past and present are vellalas.They are a pervasive influence in tamil politics,letters,education,school and college education.karu is a vellala.I remember some one complaining in churumuri about a retd. tahsildar insisting on tamil asking for ‘oru ticket’ in a mysore bus,even after many years in your beautiful city.There has always been a tradition of supporting tamil literature and poets in TN.
With the exception of lingayats,kannadigas have more or less been swept off by the sanskrit traditions.In coastal karnataka,brahmanas have been the pioneers of the agrarian structure.But in TN,there is clear evidence that brahmanas are later arrivals.In spite of the Jains,the vachanas and basava kannadigas operate in a relatively orthodox hindu environment more influenced by north india.Also the Deccan plateau is a homogenising influence on Maharashtra,telengana and north karnataka.Tamils have been sea farers for a longer time.The coastline is longer.The tamils have looked outwards for a long time.The coastline of karnataka is short.Generally,until recently,the brahmanas looked down on contacts with the rugged west.All this has influenced the language and literature of the tamils.The land of the tamils,being plains,has promoted greater unity.The landscape of karnataka is varied.It has internalised pan indian traditions to a greater extent than other southern states.Kerala has a significant non hindu population.Andhras are asuras.So kannadigas have every reason to be insecure.
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TAMIL IS ONLY A CLASSICAL LANGUAGE FOR EVER DONT DOMINATE OTHER LANGUAGE SPEAKERS THEY ARE ALL OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS FROM LONG TIME SOMEBODY SPLITING US THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR THE RIGHTS …….. PLEASE COME TO RESERCH THE ANTIQUITY OF TAMIL LANGUAGE NOW LATEST RESEARCH SHOWS SUMERIAN AS ARCHAIAC TAMIL.
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